Turn a negative around

[aspirant]

Last edited Sun May 10, 2015, 10:10 AM - Edit history (1)

If you want to energize the Baby Boomers, just tell them they are too old to participate in society anymore.

It's time to quietly go to the nursing homes and play bingo until you pass on.

We might see millions volunteer for Bernie's campaign.

Attack this age issue straight on and let's see if an "ELDERS BRIGADE" doesn't emerge

[Agschmid]

1. Do the baby boomers currently not vote?

https://www.census.gov/prod/2014pubs/p20-573.pdf

[aspirant]

2. Sure they do

but we need more Bernie votes and volunteers.

[Agschmid]

3. I'd bet you'd get more by trying to increase the interest in young voters, more growth potential.

Young voters is the group which experienced a decline in the last election, baby boomer voting actually grew substantially.

[aspirant]

4. All voters are necessary

The young voters have very influential Baby Boomer grandparents who could be very convincing.

Could it be a family affair?

[Agschmid]

5. Yes all voters are necessary... but just remember a lot of those baby boomer grandparents

aren't voting D.

[daleanime]

6. But the more people vote....

the better Democrats do.

[Agschmid]

7. Yes in general, not so true when it's broken down by age groups.

However true baby boomers do skew D. Older groups skew R.

[aspirant]

9. This is like

the 50-state strategy vs the limited pick and choose plan

[Agschmid]

11. I'm good with the 50-state strategy, that's just not what your OP said.

[aspirant]

14. Just read between the lines

it's amazing what you find there.

[Agschmid]

15. The lines where you asked for an elders brigade to come out of the woodwork?

Well just remember that elders brigade has a generally -7pts. Democratic swing.

[aspirant]

18. Which woodwork?

I say the more the merrier and any negative can be turned positive.

Remember telling the old folks to get lost because thy are too feeble and useless may just spark some enthusiastic spirit.

[aspirant]

8. When you let the "Baby Boomers" know

that Repubs and certain Dems are saying he's too old and disease prone, they might just realize they are included in these descriptions as a generation group

It may make some rethink just how much respect they are being given.

[Agschmid]

10. I don't see 6 years as all that different.

I still see both as "old"

[aspirant]

16. Tell that

to the DU'ers who are trying to make this an issue and I'm fairly confident the Repubs will jump on it when Bernie is nominated.

[delrem]

12. That's not a nice looking trajectory on any account.

Interesting spikes in 1992 and 2008.

But also a semi-spike in 2004, which returned George W. Bush, the laughingstock of the world, to office. Weird.

Canadian turnouts have also seen a precipitous drop in the 21th c.
Just for your curiousity (and the fact that Canada has a fed. election coming in Oct. '15 that might rid my country of the parasite politics of Stephen Harper) look at this:

[Agschmid]

13. Pretty steep recent decline, interesting.

Apathy is in apparently.

[delrem]

20. Reversing that decline is the only way to rid our country of the parasitical corporate tools.

I say "parasitical corporate tools" and it might seem that I'm just throwing angry words out. But I actually mean the words in their literally defined sense.
The loyalties of parasites like Harper aren't to Canada (their clones who you fight against in the USA have no loyalty to the USA, either), their loyalty is to investment capital. Simple as that. Their upbringing, their background, their education of choice, their associations of choice, ensure a perfect bubble. It's the best optics for them that they go to a standard protestant church, seen often in the background of the photos they show of their families. And, aside from their membership in variously named investment capital civic clubs etc. (they know where all the new roads etc are going to be built, before anyone else..., and the're in on all the investment opportunities created), that's it for their extended social awareness. Shallow and parasitical.

I say "parasitical" because for the peanuts in profiteering offered to them as reward, they're trained to work for the banks, the oil companies, and increasingly the war profiteers to say and do everything asked. In fact the parasite Harper sacrificed the entire history of good faith Canada had in the world, as a country of peace and fairness, to be one of the upfront faces of the US "War on Terror", of the US's "coalition". Our guys are bombing Syria FFS! Jeez, the guy has got to go.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. 40 years of outreach to young adults and what do we have for it?

How about, instead of trying to capture the interest of those who don't vote and are less likely to vote each year, we support the perceived interests of those who do? Namely, married people and retirees.

[Agschmid]

78. When the younger voters vote, we do win.

I wouldn't want to divest our efforts with them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

80. And when they don't?

Demographics won't save us as long as those very long term trends continue.

Retirees are not unwilling to vote for the wellbeing of subsequent generations, but "rock the vote" and campaigning with boy bands have proven to be ineffective.

[MaggieD]

19. What if they look around the nursing home...

... and think fuck no, I wouldn't want someone older than me to be president? LOL!

[aspirant]

21. And what if they don't

and it becomes motivating?

[MaggieD]

22. It's a joke

But on a serious note, i wish both HRC and Bernie were younger. Age can factor into to some folks voting decisions in a negative way.

[aspirant]

23. It's DU reality

Age can factor in older folks decisions in a positive way too

You see there are 2 sides to a coin

[MaggieD]

24. I'm skeptical

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/what-americans-want-dont-want-presidential-candidate-n354141

[aspirant]

27. An unverifiable poll

Gee, skepticism by a estimate or guess, when will you be able to swim thru all that confusion?

Just wait for next weeks guess poll for another layer of confusion

[Agschmid]

32. Maybe this is a bit more verifiable...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026649690

[aspirant]

33. Another poll

Let's call up YouGov and ask for the names and contact numbers of their random sample so we can call and verify their results.

Maybe YouGov is different but the ones I've called gave me an emphatic NO to verification

Can you tell me how this is "a bit more verifiable"?

[aspirant]

34. Are you in the Sanders Group

citing polls that infers that Bernie's age makes him unelectable?

[Agschmid]

35. No.

Nice try.

We are having a discussion and I didn't say "Bernie was unelectable" anywhere, nor do I believe it.

You made an OP I responded...

[aspirant]

36. Do you believe the poll you cited

that suggested Bernie's too old to be elected?

Why didn't you respond to why it was more verifiable if that was your only reason for posting it?

[Agschmid]

37. That is NOT what it suggested.

It just tells you an age range that the people who took the poll felt was appropriate. You can't just make stuff up to fit your narrative.

[aspirant]

38. How about this stuff in the poll

Presidential candidates; ideal age 40-59; Surely not Bernie supporters

Candidacy is significant for his age.. will be 75; significantly not pro-Bernie

"polling numbers make his chances look extremely remote"; Don't think this is a Bernie upper

1% says ideal age is 70 and older; Wow 1% this is just what the doctor ordered for the Sanders Group

92% says ideal age is below 60; Somehow they have a way of excluding Bernie

"Democrats are most likely to pick 60-69 - possibly an acknowledgement of Clinton"; Wow an HRC acknowledgement in the Sanders Group

Now what is your narrative again?

[Agschmid]

39. Okay...

Presidential candidates; ideal age 40-59;

This ideal range (which again is just a range) excludes all the current Democratic Party candidates.

but his candidacy is also significant for his age: Sanders will be 75 by November 2016, and, if he won, would be the oldest nominee US presidential history.

That's a fact. No if/and/or buts about it.

"polling numbers make his chances look extremely remote";

Also a fact based on historical information, that's why its so important to volunteer, donate, and work for him.

1% says ideal age is 70 and older;

Survey result, thats about it.

92% says ideal age is below 60; Somehow they have a way of excluding Bernie

... and Clinton, and a good portion of the Republican field as well.

"Democrats are most likely to pick 60-69 - possibly an acknowledgement of Clinton"; Wow an HRC acknowledgement in the Sanders Group

FYI, Hillary exists... and all this quote says is that D's are more likely to be interested in a slightly older candidate (Good for both Bernie and Hillary).

Now what is your narrative again?

And what does that mean? Do I not pass your litmus or purity test? That's fine with me it's my vote, my choice, my money, and my time I will donate to Bernie. Sorry if I'm not quite as "pure" as you.

[aspirant]

40. You stated "fit your narrative" so you define it

Ideal age 40-59 excludes all Dems; so why site the poll? If it is more verifiable, prove it.

"will be 75" explain to me how this is a Bernie positive when his opponents are using this as an unelectable point. Prove this poll is more verifiable.

"polling numbers make his chances look extremely remote"; historical info doesn't make it a fact today. Prove this poll is verifiable beyond any guesstimate. Present your psychological argument that presenting negatives and weaknesses always result in positive motivation.

70 and older =1%; Another Bernie negative

"picks 60-69" This is amazing. Hillary exists in the HRC group and this should be posted there. This shows absolutely no interest in Bernie and even acknowledges CLINTON. "slightly older candidate" which EXCLUDES Bernie since he is not 60-69, another Bernie negative.

So now you resort to purity ponies, where have I heard that before?

[Agschmid]

42. You've gone off the deep end...

You realize this...

Present your psychological argument that presenting negatives and weaknesses always result in positive motivation.

Was the entire point of your OP? Correct? Let's get our old people insulted because that will motivate them to vote! Let me know when you buy DU from Skinner/Elad/EarlG and then, and only then can you tell me what to do here.

All you've done is make up false claims about the poll and about what I've said. That's the worst kind of argument there is.

[aspirant]

46. I enjoy swimming in the deep end, I'll let you wade in the shallow end

It all started when you cited a poll because it was more verifiable which still remains unproven.

The entire point of my OP was to bring a POSITIVE solution to a secure group to deal with a GD negative which was festering and unresolved. My statement " ALWAYS result in positive motivation" still stands because the festering is not positive motivation.

Negatives and weaknesses produce negative motivations, that's the whole point of negative ads which is to reduce voter turnout, not increase it.

For you to cite a poll to further the festering negative in a safe haven, without a positive solution, is a drowning effort at best.

My claims were quotes, but sometimes the TRUTH hurts.

The problem here is you have no argument, just Purity Ponies

[Agschmid]

49. You said a poll was unverifiable because it was from the Internet...

I posted a poll which was conducted by a polling agency, which yes is potentially more verifiable.

I am aware this is a safe haven, I posted the original SOP, I bowed out of hosting because people were uncomfortable with me as a host, so don't try the safe haven thing on me just because we don't agree. We both are on the same side.

In this same thread I have posted that I think we should focus on youth voters, as they have more ability to grow as a segment of the voting population. I consider that a solution, do you not?

I'm not festering a negative I am using data and information to make an informed decision, and to try to inform others.

[aspirant]

56. Show me where I said it was unverifiable

because it was from the internet.

Prove to me you can verify this poll by getting the names and contact numbers of the random sample.

As I stated on this post, I think a 50-state strategy which implies all voters should be our focus. Leaving out any category or handful of voters, to me, is unacceptable.

[Agschmid]

57. Good it appears you get it now...

As I stated on this post, I think a 50-state strategy which implies all voters should be our focus. Leaving out any category or handful of voters, to me, is unacceptable.

Enjoy your Sunday.

[aspirant]

60. How do you get it

if you just want to focus on the youth?

[Agschmid]

61. I'm done...

I want to focus on everyone, as I assume you do as well.

That however is NOT what this OP said, but it appears you have now gotten there.

[aspirant]

64. I'm done

This thread focused on a solution to an old age issue and I even posted on the grandparents trying to actively organize and convince their grandchildren, the youth to support Bernie.

"we should focus on the youth voters" Post #49 so now you want to focus on everyone, I'm glad you finally got there.

[Agschmid]

65. FFS.

Read your OP.

[aspirant]

67. FFS

read your posts and mine

[Agschmid]

68. I have we clearly don't get each other.

We are both on the same side here?!?!

[aspirant]

70. As long as that side

is Bernie winning the Presidency without misdirections.

[Agschmid]

71. No misdirection a just not ignoring the challenges we will face.

[aspirant]

72. My OP and posts are about the farthest you can get

from ignore.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

26. yeah lol

You know you're in the Bernie group, right, lol?
Amongst lots of the Bernie supporters you often
have so many nice things to say about, lol.

[MaggieD]

28. Like I said....

I wish HRC and Bernie were younger. Are we really so delicate we cant even mention that their ages might not be ideal for election purposes?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

29. Just trying to be delicately helpful

in case you were lost, LOL.

[MaggieD]

30. Okay - thanks

I do get lost sometimes.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Yer welcome.

Me, too, lol.

[antiquie]

47. Are you talking about boomers?

We are still waiting for the silents and greatests to make space in the old folks homes for us.
I guess that is why Bernie and Hillary are running, because there isn't retirement space for them.

I'd been told DU was very ageist but I hadn't experienced it before this forum and this is the every last place I expected to find it.

[Agschmid]

73. Who here is ageist?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

25. Republicans want to eliminate Social Security....

People will believe Bernie wants to save it.

[RoccoR5955]

41. Maybe I am not the typical Baby Boomer

Nor are most of my friends, or others here in my area of Ulster County in NY, but in my time as an election custodian, I have seen more Baby Boomers and older vote than I have seen younger folks.

To me it seems not the Boomers or the elderly who need to get out and do things, it's the younger folks, who we constantly are telling to get out and vote.

But hey, perhaps this is not the norm.

[Agschmid]

43. This!

[aspirant]

48. So...

100% of the Baby Boomers in the USA are actively involved and convincing all their grandchildren to vote

What % of eligible Americans are registered to vote?

[RoccoR5955]

58. Some boomers' grandchildren are not yet old enough to vote.

And who said that 100% of boomers are involved? I didn't.
Americans who are eligible to vote and do register are another issue. Ask the Republicans who have those purge lists, and remove people from registration lists.

[aspirant]

62. So it seems nationally, not just Ulster County,

that there is room for improvement with the Baby Boomers as well as the youth.

[RoccoR5955]

63. Yeah, like some folks have to reach age 18!

And I never said 100%. And even if it was 100% there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[aspirant]

66. And the ones who are 18 and older,

the grandparents could offer improvements as well as their uninvolved Boomer peers.

[RoccoR5955]

75. believe me, many of us do! n/t

[sabrina 1]

44. Just igore them or tell them, it's great to have two old people

running in the race.

Hillary is old too. Any label they try to attach to Bernie, just slap it on their candidate. The last thing they want is for their candidate to be called 'old'.

But by their standards she is old, almost as old as Bernie.

Never, ever go on the defensive.

With age comes wisdom we are told. In Bernie's case he was always wise about what is important.

Hillary seemed to be wiser when she was younger, regarding issues. So that old saying isn't always true.

[aspirant]

52. Sabrini

citing a poll that says "Democrats are most likely to pick 60-69- possibly an acknowledgement of Clinton" is putting them in the same boat? is this appropriate here?

[sabrina 1]

53. I don't think we need to even address their attempted smears. MAKE THEM TALK ABOUT

ISSUES. This is what they cannot do. Hillary is so bad on the issues and Bernie so good, that this is all they have.

When we go on the defensive and try to be rational and cite polls etc, they have successfully derailed the discussion.

Their goal by using the word 'old' is to force US to talk about THAT rather than the issues.

Just say 'yes, Bernie and Hillary are both old, isn't it great? Dems once again breaking down barriers, this time it is 'ageism'.

Then ask them where Hillary stands on the TPP and keep the topic on the ISSUES.

Hillary will be nearly 70 by the time the GE comes around. So this is a losing smear campaign for them.

Not worth wasting valuable time and effort on and by pointing out how 'old' Hillary is each time they try it, they will soon see how it can harm their candidate also.

Just my opinion of course.

[Agschmid]

54. Sabrina you are correct of course...

I've said this several times in this thread.

Just say 'yes, Bernie and Hillary are both old, isn't it great? Dems once again breaking down barriers, this time it is 'ageism'.

[sabrina 1]

55. Thank you, this is definitely not a winning issue for them. IF we simply take it and tell the

truth about it. I am way, way more concerned about where Hillary stands on the issues than I am about her age. But if that's they way they want to go, I'm happy to do that also. Sooner or later they will get tired of hearing about how old Hillary is also, and that particular talking point will be set aside, and we will get to see what their next one is.

[aspirant]

69. Ignoring is not always the solution

especially when Bernie runs in the GE against these unscrupulous Repubs. Why not face the issue now and maximize our voter support

[sabrina 1]

76. I'm saying, in this particular case where Democrats supposedly, are

attempting to use Bernie's age against him, just point out that Hillary is old also, which is a fact by THEIR definition of old.

They haven't thought this out very well. Hillary will be nearly 70 by the GE. So if it's not a factor for her, then what exactly is their point?

Arguing intelligently with talking points doesn't work, and there will be plenty of them as Bernie becomes more of a threat to their candidate.

Right now it is NOT Republicans who are doing this, it is Democrats.

We will take care of the Republicans when we have to.

Iow, when you see someone say 'Bernie is too old, that will be against him'. Simply saying: 'Hillary is too old also and I presume you believe it will be against her also, so who are YOU going to vote for'?

That puts THEM on the defensive. Trying to explain anything to such people is a waste of time, their goal is to destroy any competition to their own candidate. Showing them their candidate also fits their analysis will soon end that talking point.

[antiquie]

45. Spite and Revenge? Poor motivation.

Many of us "old folks" have been progressive activists since the 60s, especially those of us on DU. I am still ACTIVIST. Every "old" citizen I know votes and works to enthuse young people to vote. In my experience, it is the young people who are apathetic, not us gray hairs.

I find the OP condescending and do not understand why anyone would want to discourage others from voting by insulting them.

Happy Sunday, ciao.

P.S. What is the negative you have to turn around? That we are still alive?

[aspirant]

50. The negatives are the claims

Last edited Sun May 10, 2015, 11:38 AM - Edit history (1)

that the old are dementia prone and insinuating they can't do the job. Please read Kurska's GD thread.

I've edited the OP.

[antiquie]

51. No thanks, you've insulted me enough for Mother's Day.

You win. I'm leaving this PROTECTED group to all of you wonderful young people. I am shocked you can support Bernie.

[aspirant]

59. I'm a boomer

Why are you shocked when I present a way to defend him. The only win I'm interested in is Bernie's nomination and presidency.

[L0oniX]

74. Please don't leave. We need everyone in this struggle to get Bernie elected.

[TBF]

81. Bernie has experience -

and this is coming from someone who is not quite 50. I can't imagine that Boomers aren't willing to vote for someone who is chronologically "older". The thing though is to stress where every candidate stands on the issues. There are many people who may look at Scott Walker and say "nice family man" - and our response needs to be "here is where he advocated cutting social security, is he really so nice?". We will need to do that over & over again.