Biden's advisors called his climate change plan a "middle of the road plan" according to

[pnwmom]

this article in the Guardian. That's probably where AOC got the idea, though Biden denies it now.

The problem with simply returning to Obama's policies is that 4 years will have passed during which we went BACKWARDS. We are starting off at a much worse point than we were 4 years ago, and simply returning to Obama's policies isn't enough. It wasn't really enough back then, though it was the best we could do. Now it's not even close to enough.

The problem is Biden hopes to find a climate change policy that will appeal to the coal miners and other blue-collar workers who voted for Trump. Hillary already tried that with a jobs program targeting them, but they won't be satisfied with less than a continuation of their coal mining and other fossil fuel based jobs. And that is incompatible with any serious effort to stop climate change.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/13/joe-biden-is-a-climate-denier

Presidential candidate Joe Biden, 76, seems to have a very different understanding of the climate crisis than the world’s leading climate scientists. Several top advisers to the former vice-president previewed his “middle of the road” plan on the issue for Reuters on Friday. He’ll have the US rejoin the Paris agreement, which Trump has said he will leave exit as soon as that document’s terms allow in early 2021. He’ll preserve existing regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency that the current administration has targeted. Like Obama, he’ll embrace an “all of the above” energy strategy, with plenty of room for new natural gas development and exports as well as carbon capture and storage, to indefinitely extend the life of the coal industry.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive/presidential-hopeful-biden-looking-for-middle-ground-climate-policy-idUSKCN1SG18G

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Biden is crafting a climate change policy he hopes will appeal to both environmentalists and the blue-collar voters who elected Donald Trump, according to two sources, carving out a middle ground approach that will likely face heavy resistance from green activists.

SNIP

The approach, which has not been previously reported, will set Biden apart from many of his Democratic rivals for the White House who have embraced much tougher climate agendas, like the Green New Deal calling for an end to U.S. fossil fuels use within 10 years. That could make Biden, vice president under Obama, a target of environmental groups and youth activists ahead of next year’s primary elections.

“I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

More than half of the crowded field of Democratic contenders, including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Beto O’Rourke, Cory Booker, Jay Inslee and Pete Buttigieg have backed the Green New Deal, and many have also called for a moratorium on drilling on federal land.

[Skya Rhen]

1. With all due respect - I did not see a direct quote of "middle of the road" from any adviser...

This appears to be a phrase that the Guardian used to characterize their perception of Biden's plan. This does not appear to be based on facts.

Please attribute this quote to a named adviser.

Thanks in advance...

*************************************************

Direct passage from the Guardian:

Several top advisers to the former vice-president previewed his “middle of the road” plan on the issue for Reuters on Friday. He’ll have the US rejoin the Paris agreement, which Trump has said he will leave exit as soon as that document’s terms allow in early 2021. He’ll preserve existing regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency that the current administration has targeted. Like Obama, he’ll embrace an “all of the above” energy strategy, with plenty of room for new natural gas development and exports as well as carbon capture and storage, to indefinitely extend the life of the coal industry.

“Right now, we need a little bit more reality around this dialogue,” Heather Zichal told Reuters, taking a swipe at such plans. Zichal, “who has become Biden’s informal advisor on climate change policy,” Volcovici writes, also served as a top climate advisor to the Obama administration.

[pnwmom]

2. With all due respect it came from the Reuters article at the second link.

The backbone of the policy will likely include the United States re-joining the Paris Climate Agreement and preserving U.S. regulations on emissions and vehicle fuel efficiency that Trump has sought to undo, according to one of the sources, Heather Zichal, who is part of a team advising Biden on climate change. She previously advised President Barack Obama.

“I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

[hedda_foil]

6. Unfortunately, what we learned from the Obama administration is that Republicans won't go along

with anything Democrats want, no matter how "middle of the road" it may be.

[pnwmom]

7. Right. And a middle of the road approach might have worked several decades ago,

but the scientists tell us we're at a crisis point now.

[dalton99a]

22. "Middle of the road" to Donald Trump means he'll punch you twice a day instead of four times a day

[Eko]

23. Where does it say "middle of the road"?

[R B Garr]

3. Such hypocrisy, considering AOC was on a townhall suggesting coalminers get

their pensions fully funded, so obviously being cognizant of coalminers is okay in her mind, just not okay for anyone else.

[pnwmom]

4. Being cognizant of coal miners isn't the same as allowing those jobs to continue. Hillary was

also "cognizant," so she advocated retraining those workers in clean energy jobs, but most of them voted for Trump anyway.

[R B Garr]

5. Nitpicking about my choice of one word isn't what this is about. I have other words I could have

used, but can't in this forum.

Catering to coalminers -- how about that.

[Demit]

11. Are you against coalminers having their pensions fully funded?

[R B Garr]

12. I am against hypocrisy and was pointing it out.

Are you against a jobs programs for ex-miners? Is that "middle of the road?"

[Demit]

14. Sorry, I don't see hypocrisy in what she said.

And you haven't exactly explained it.

[R B Garr]

15. You asked me a question, and I anwered. It's hypocritical to have proposals

to cater to coalminers from one politician, yet proposals from others are called "middle ground" as a way of smearing them.

Also, attack Republicans instead. Thanks.

edit: You didn't answer if jobs programs are "middle ground"

[pnwmom]

16. Biden's own advisor called his policy "middle ground." Do you think his own advisor

is trying to smear him?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive/presidential-hopeful-biden-looking-for-middle-ground-climate-policy-idUSKCN1SG18G


The backbone of the policy will likely include the United States re-joining the Paris Climate Agreement and preserving U.S. regulations on emissions and vehicle fuel efficiency that Trump has sought to undo, according to one of the sources, Heather Zichal, who is part of a team advising Biden on climate change. She previously advised President Barack Obama. . . .

“I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

[R B Garr]

17. Why leave what AOC said out of the equation now?? The hypocrisy is that she said Biden

was middle ground, but she also has plans that cater to coalminers. Is it middle ground to consider coalminers?

[pnwmom]

18. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Biden seems to be talking about going back to Obama-era energy policies -- that is what his advisor refers to as "middle of the road." But we will have lost four precious years and the challenge is much greater now.

AOC was simply advocating for some financial relief for the displaced workers. That has nothing to do with a middle of the road path on the issue of fossil fuels.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/13/joe-biden-is-a-climate-denier

Presidential candidate Joe Biden, 76, seems to have a very different understanding of the climate crisis than the world’s leading climate scientists. Several top advisers to the former vice-president previewed his “middle of the road” plan on the issue for Reuters on Friday. He’ll have the US rejoin the Paris agreement, which Trump has said he will leave exit as soon as that document’s terms allow in early 2021. He’ll preserve existing regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency that the current administration has targeted. Like Obama, he’ll embrace an “all of the above” energy strategy, with plenty of room for new natural gas development and exports as well as carbon capture and storage, to indefinitely extend the life of the coal industry.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive/presidential-hopeful-biden-looking-for-middle-ground-climate-policy-idUSKCN1SG18G

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Biden is crafting a climate change policy he hopes will appeal to both environmentalists and the blue-collar voters who elected Donald Trump, according to two sources, carving out a middle ground approach that will likely face heavy resistance from green activists.

SNIP

The approach, which has not been previously reported, will set Biden apart from many of his Democratic rivals for the White House who have embraced much tougher climate agendas, like the Green New Deal calling for an end to U.S. fossil fuels use within 10 years. That could make Biden, vice president under Obama, a target of environmental groups and youth activists ahead of next year’s primary elections.

“I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

More than half of the crowded field of Democratic contenders, including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Beto O’Rourke, Cory Booker, Jay Inslee and Pete Buttigieg have backed the Green New Deal, and many have also called for a moratorium on drilling on federal land.

[R B Garr]

20. No. Now you are trying to make it all about fossil fuels since you think that hurts Biden,

but I am talking about hypocrisy of having proposals that are okay for one politician to espouse, but are turned around as a smear against others. Your own intro, if those are your words in the OP, bring up the coalminers. Quote: "The problem is Biden hopes to find a climate change policy that will appeal to the coal miners and other blue-collar workers who voted for Trump."

Here is AOC at the Chris Hayes townhall admitting that the Green New Deal is just a scope of resolutions. Isn't that "middle ground"??

"OCASIO-CORTEZ: No. And first all of we wave a magic wand and we passed
the Green New Deal resolution tomorrow, what happens? Nothing because it`s
a resolution. What our resolution that we introduced means is that it
passes the House and it passes the Senate,separately, it just means that
we make it a national priority and it says that the scope of the solution
must be on the scale of the problem. And so it outlines the ways we can
pursue that scope.

But in order for us to pursue this agenda, we don`t have to do it all at
once. But it outlines the ways and hows of doing it."

[pnwmom]

24. I am making the argument about fossil fuels because that is the piece that's being disputed.

None of the Democrats , including Biden and AOC, seriously argues that we shouldn't help displaced workers.

But Biden so far hasn't been willing to go as far as most of the other top candidates in ending our reliance on fossil fuels. So far he and his team have only talked about going back to Obama's policies. But that middle ground advocated by Obama won't do enough to address today's challenges.

[R B Garr]

41. You ignored the part about what AOC said. Again.

She accused Biden of being "middle ground," but her proposals are middle ground, as well. Obviously if all you can do is generate dialogue about climate change, then nothing can get done, including anything about fossil fuels. See her quote from Chris Hayes townhall. So why attack other Democrats for that which you cannot get done yourself.

Let's be real here. This isn't really about climate change so much as it is about trying to campaign against a leading primary contender. AOC is the one who attacked Biden by trying to paint him as a "middle roader."

[pnwmom]

42. AOC's proposals aren't middle ground. She wants to end all reliance on fossil fuels in 10 years.

That might not even be achievable, but it's NOT middle ground.

[R B Garr]

44. That is not what she said. Here it is again:

"OCASIO-CORTEZ: No. And first all of we wave a magic wand and we passed
the Green New Deal resolution tomorrow, what happens? Nothing because it`s
a resolution. What our resolution that we introduced means is that it
passes the House and it passes the Senate,separately, it just means that
we make it a national priority and it says that the scope of the solution
must be on the scale of the problem. And so it outlines the ways we can
pursue that scope.

But in order for us to pursue this agenda, we don`t have to do it all at
once. But it outlines the ways and hows of doing it."


Everything she said is middle ground. She is acknowledging that it won't get done, but the "scope" is what is important. "It just means that we make it a national priority." That is very middle ground.

[pnwmom]

45. She's just saying we can't get there in an INSTANT. But the Green New Deal she supports

calls for the end of reliance on fossil fuels in ten years. That's the goal.

Biden's plan so far is Obama's plan -- and that included natural gas and other fossil fuels. If he supports the Green New Deal, too, then why hasn't he said that? Several other candidates have. The D's could have a unified front.

[R B Garr]

48. If she knows we can't get there in an instant, then she knows that fossil fuels will continue,

so why not just discuss the transition realistically as every other politician will have to do. Why smear another politician over something you acknowledge will take at least a decade to transition. Why smear another politician over realistically discussing fossil fuels. It's very hypocritical and does no service to other Democrats.

[pnwmom]

50. Why doesn't Biden discuss the transition realistically? So far all he's said is he'll return

to Obama's plans, which included "clean coal" and fracking. How is he discussing a transition?

[R B Garr]

52. Why does AOC malign him for that which she acknowledges cannot be done? I don't

see Biden attacking other Democrats for unrealistic and unattainable talking points.

[Demit]

19. I'm not sure why you are challenging me.

I can't answer your question about whether jobs programs are "middle ground" because I don't know what you are positing as the extremes that it would be in the middle of.

As a general rule, I'm as in favor of jobs programs as I am for pensions to be fully funded. Where they fall on your spectrum I have no idea. I hope that helps.

[R B Garr]

21. Not sure why you are challenging me, either. I said it's hypocritical for one politician to smear

another as "middle ground" when they have similar proposals.

[pnwmom]

43. The Green New deal supported by AOC and several of the Presidential candidates

is NOT similar to the Obama era policies that, so far, are all Biden has proposed returning to.

[R B Garr]

46. Here is what AOC said about her own proposals. Being realistic about goals is what

Biden is doing, also. And you have said you don't know his policy, so it looks like a cursory review. If that's the case, why is AOC actively trying to smear Biden as being middle ground. We know that is intended to smear him. She cannot achieve her goals, either, as she admits in Chris Hayes forum, so why smear another politician over that you cannot achieve yourself. Personally, her realism here was something that I thought might be a breakthrough with her, but I see that is not the case after all.

"OCASIO-CORTEZ: No. And first all of we wave a magic wand and we passed
the Green New Deal resolution tomorrow, what happens? Nothing because it`s
a resolution. What our resolution that we introduced means is that it
passes the House and it passes the Senate,separately, it just means that
we make it a national priority and it says that the scope of the solution
must be on the scale of the problem. And so it outlines the ways we can
pursue that scope.

But in order for us to pursue this agenda, we don`t have to do it all at
once. But it outlines the ways and hows of doing it."

[pnwmom]

47. Why doesn't Biden endorse the Green New Deal? Most of the other leading candidates have.

All he and his advisors have talked about is returning to Obama's policies.

[R B Garr]

51. That is a bit laughable, actually. Here is AOC saying that the Green New Deal is unrealistic,

so why shouldn't he stick with reality as we know it. Discussing abstract ideas is a wonderful endeavor, but then you have to also deal with reality. I did appreciate AOC's frankness in this particular clip and had hopes, but these empty attacks on other Democrats are sad.

"OCASIO-CORTEZ: No. And first all of we wave a magic wand and we passed
the Green New Deal resolution tomorrow, what happens? Nothing because it`s
a resolution. What our resolution that we introduced means is that it
passes the House and it passes the Senate,separately, it just means that
we make it a national priority and it says that the scope of the solution
must be on the scale of the problem. And so it outlines the ways we can
pursue that scope.

But in order for us to pursue this agenda, we don`t have to do it all at
once. But it outlines the ways and hows of doing it."

[Saviolo]

8. Climate change is not a political position.

Climate change has nothing to do with your preferred candidate, your party, or your optics and talking points. We are on fire right now. There is one party that would be willing to do something about putting out the fire, and the other party who is happy to say that it's just a particularly warm day and what do you mean there's all this fire?

Whoever becomes the democratic nominee must, and I cannot stress enough, must be willing to be bold with regards to climate change. We are well past the point of danger and heading rapidly into the realm of catastrophe. The west coast was on fire this past year. Flooding, drought, wildfires, storms, and extinction are becoming out of control.

We can argue about the wording of proposals, or the optics of offering "unicorns" about climate change, but if we don't do something we are all going to suffer the results. It's not about purity, it's not about party loyalty, it's not about electability, we are entering the realm of survivability. Everyone in the Democratic primary needs to be on board with something.

[pnwmom]

9. Well, it is, if one of the candidates think we can get by simply by returning to Obama's policies,

which included some reliance on fossil fuels, including fracking.

But we're past the point where Obama's policies will solve the problem.

[Saviolo]

10. I agree.

That's what I mean by being bold. Going backwards is not an option at this point, it is necessary to have bold and new plans, wildly speculative plans that have a chance of having an impact, and damn the optics.

Link to tweet

?s=19

[Demit]

13. I agree with what Jay Inslee said in that Reuters article: "the times and science have changed."

'Inslee praised the Obama-Biden administration for its climate legacy but said “the times and science have changed. We cannot simply go back to the past; we need a bold climate plan for our future.” '

[Skya Rhen]

25. How is the bold plan going to get passed in Congress?

[Demit]

27. I don't think we should give up on having goals.

Republicans don't give up on their goals. They've tried to repeal the ACA how many times now? They don't quit. We shouldn't be saying "Oh, it's too hard, it'll never work, they'll tell us no." The Republicans don't have that timid attitude. We should take a page out of their book, in this regard.

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"

[pnwmom]

31. If you want to successfully negotiate, you don't BEGIN the negotiations by conceding

half the ground to an opponent by immediately announcing you're seeking a middle ground.

[Eko]

26. Almost 64% of our energy comes from fossil fules.

And while I agree that we absolutely have to get off them until we do we will have to use them until we have a replacement.

[pnwmom]

49. The aim of getting off them in ten years is very ambitious. But without an ambitious goal

how will we make significant progress?

Saying that we'll just go back to Obama's old policies, as Biden does, won't do the job. We're much worse off than in 2008.

[WeekiWater]

28. These are the extremely weak attacks that are currently helping Biden...

And sending Sanders down like a rock. I love that the people promoting them can’t figure out why.

[emmaverybo]

29. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you posted the original story about Biden crossing

a picket line, as told to you by a friend. You updated your post to say the picket line was an informational picket line. As was reported later, the “line” was comprised of a small group of union members protesting a Kaiser Permanente’s executive’s house where a donor event for Biden was being held.
Certain details emerged to strongly suggest the story was inaccurate and that the “buzz” about Biden it generated was intentionally negative, that a Sanders supporter was behind the protest itself.
Now you post this and push back against those questioning any aspect of it.
I find many partisan stories daily to cast this or that candidate in a negative light, stories that lack objectivity, do not provide any opposing comment to them, do not seem to make an effort to contact the candidate or an aide for comment. I don’t post these.
Just as we have threads for posters supporting a candidate, perhaps we should have threads for those feeling an urgency to post news or personal anecdotes in opposition of particular candidates.
Certainly your posts would fit an anti-Biden sub-category in a larger “opposition to primary candidates” division.
Maybe you could yourself preface such material in your subject headline. Something like “ More anti-Biden news” would do.

[pnwmom]

30. I'm sorry that you view any criticism of his policies or actions as personal.

I am not anti-Biden, and will support him if he's the nominee. However, he and Sanders are leading the pack right now, so of course their policies and plans will be analyzed and critiqued.

We haven't had a single debate yet and until then I will be comparing all the policies that are announced, and the records of the various candidates.

[Skya Rhen]

32. Are you going to compare Bernie's anti-gun control record to Biden's gun control record?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-gun-votes-are-again-potential-liability-among-democratic-base-n999326

[pnwmom]

33. I strongly prefer Biden's gun record over Bernie's. And I'm sure any active Bernie supporter here

can tell you I'm not a big fan of his -- though I will vote for him in the unlikely event he's the nominee.

[Skya Rhen]

35. Good - I eagerly await seeing critiques from yourself regarding other candidates, besides Biden...

[pnwmom]

36. You haven't been looking very hard if you haven't seen them. For example,

this is the first one I saw when I googled.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287100401

[George II]

34. Unless I missed it, the first article doesn't quote anyone from Biden's administration...

....saying anything about "middle of the road", it's the opinion of the writer that someone said that.

The second one, from Reuters, has this quote “I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

She did NOT say it's his plan is "middle of the road", she said unless "we (which I take to be left, right, and center) find middle ground on these issues we risk not having any policies". And she's 100% correct. Stubbornness on the part of the far left is going to wind up with not getting any results.

[Peacetrain]

37. Exactly..

[Skya Rhen]

38. Thank you - I pride myself in being pretty good with reading comprehension and I, too, just cannot

see where there is a direct quote from an adviser saying that Biden's climate change policy is middle of the road.

Whew... I thought it was just me...

[pnwmom]

40. Why are you harping on word choice when the policies themselves are clearly compromises

that most scientists in the field feel are no longer adequate to solve the problems? They might have been in 2008 but they won't be in 2020.

[pnwmom]

39. But you're leaving out the parts where they mention actual policies -- Obama's old policies --

which were middle of the road for pre-2016 and won't meet today's challenges.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/13/joe-biden-is-a-climate-denier

Presidential candidate Joe Biden, 76, seems to have a very different understanding of the climate crisis than the world’s leading climate scientists. Several top advisers to the former vice-president previewed his “middle of the road” plan on the issue for Reuters on Friday. He’ll have the US rejoin the Paris agreement, which Trump has said he will leave exit as soon as that document’s terms allow in early 2021. He’ll preserve existing regulations on emissions and fuel efficiency that the current administration has targeted. Like Obama, he’ll embrace an “all of the above” energy strategy, with plenty of room for new natural gas development and exports as well as carbon capture and storage, to indefinitely extend the life of the coal industry.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive/presidential-hopeful-biden-looking-for-middle-ground-climate-policy-idUSKCN1SG18G

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic presidential hopeful Joe Biden is crafting a climate change policy he hopes will appeal to both environmentalists and the blue-collar voters who elected Donald Trump, according to two sources, carving out a middle ground approach that will likely face heavy resistance from green activists.

SNIP

The approach, which has not been previously reported, will set Biden apart from many of his Democratic rivals for the White House who have embraced much tougher climate agendas, like the Green New Deal calling for an end to U.S. fossil fuels use within 10 years. That could make Biden, vice president under Obama, a target of environmental groups and youth activists ahead of next year’s primary elections.

“I respect where they (activist groups) are coming from,” Zichal said. “What we learned from the Obama administration is unless we find middle ground on these issues, we risk not having any policies.”

More than half of the crowded field of Democratic contenders, including Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Beto O’Rourke, Cory Booker, Jay Inslee and Pete Buttigieg have backed the Green New Deal, and many have also called for a moratorium on drilling on federal land.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. I didn't realize all of of this about Joe's environmental policies... thanks for posting.

Perhaps, this is the "normalcy" of which Joe often speaks... just don't think the environment can survive much longer. Joe needs to quickly evolve on this issue and endorse the Green New Deal, if he wants to stay competitive in this primary race. #GND


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!