Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBiden's record - video from C-span - Anyone think this is a good thing?
Joe Biden on crime bill June 20, 1991
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4793704/joe-biden-crime-bill
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hlthe2b
(102,119 posts)that things change--both situationally and societally. The bad politicos are those who don't change their positions and evolve. Biden is not one of those.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Or maybe the best ones are the ones who had the better positions all along, even when those positions were unpopular.
Biden is the consummate political animal, with all the good and bad that goes along with it. Changing with the times is not the worst thing. Of the elder candidates, it's nice that Sanders had pretty much the same convictions 30 years ago, more consistently so than Biden or ex-Republican Warren... but in the end, it doesn't really matter much. They'd all govern based on where they are today, not where they were 30 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hlthe2b
(102,119 posts)You are quite wrong re: Sanders. He also voted for that bill!
Best to check the facts before "squandering" any credible argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)This is not an old story - this is Biden's story - whether he continues to talk about it on the campaign trail or not. And actually - it's one that anyone voting in the primary should be aware of - so they can cast a knowledgable vote. You can bet - if Biden were to win the primary - this would be a big issue in the general - by the Republicans. It could be difficult to show much light between Biden and Trump on this issue - at least. And it seems to be Biden's proudest accomplishment.
"Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was?"
Joe Biden once called state-mandated school integration the most racist concept you can come up with, and Barack Obama the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean. He was a staunch opponent of forced busing in the 1970s, and leading crusader for mass incarceration throughout the 80s and 90s. Uncle Joe has described African-American felons as predators too sociopathic to rehabilitate and white supremacist senators as his friends.
...As of 2007, Biden believed that this stance had aged well. In a memoir released that year, the soon-to-be presidential candidate derided busing as a liberal trainwreck. Education experts disagree. Since some municipalities did integrate their schools through busing (however temporarily), while others did not, scholars have been able to evaluate the policys efficacy. In 2011, researchers at Berkeley found that black students who had spent five years in desegregated schools went on to earn (on average) 25 percent more than those who remained in segregated schools (or, in Bidens phrasing, schools that honored the black awareness concept). Other studies have found that racial segregation impairs learning for black students so severely, it outweighs the positive effects associated with higher household income while integration enhances educational outcomes more profoundly than increasing a schools safety. Meanwhile, contrary to so many white parents fears, integration was not associated with any negative effect on white students educational performance.
...Biden is famous for his lead role in crafting the 1994 crime bill, or, as the senator preferred to call it (as recently as 2015), the 1994 Biden Crime Bill. Some aspects of that legislation remain popular within the Democratic Party among them, the Violence Against Women Act, a federal assault-weapons ban, and funds for community oriented policing. But in 2019 America a place where our nations violent crime rate is near historic lows, while its incarceration rate hovers around world-historic highs the bills broader legacy is ignominious. The Brennan Center succinctly summarized that legacy on the 20th anniversary of the bills passage:
It expanded the death penalty, creating 60 new death penalty offenses under 41 federal capital statutes. It eliminated education funding for incarcerated students, effectively gutting prison education programs. Despite a wealth of research showing education increases post-release employment, reduces recidivism, and improves outcomes for the formerly incarcerated and their families, this change has not been reversed.
And the bill created a wave of change toward harsher state sentencing policy. That change was driven by funding incentives: the bills $9.7 billion in federal funding for prison construction went only to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing (TIS) laws, which lead to defendants serving far longer prison terms. Within 5 years, 29 states had TIS laws on the books, 24 more than when the bill was signed. New York State received over $216 million by passing such laws. By 2000 the state had added over 12,000 prison beds and incarcerated 28 percent more people than a decade before.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20nymag/intelligencer%20%28Daily%20Intelligencer%20-%20New%20York%20Magazine%29&utm_content=Google%20Feedfetcher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hlthe2b
(102,119 posts)Had she been in the Senate would have almost certainly voted for it too.
Disingenuous does not begin to cover it. Personally. I like and could easily see me supporting at least a half dozen candidates. The handful I really do not want to support are Gillibrand, Moulton, Ryan and Gabbard.
But, I do believe in covering them fairly. Yes, 28 years is OLD news. As I said, you may think you'd have done differently from your perch in the womb if you are as young as some here, but hindsight is not worthy of argument. This tactic is not going to turn anyone AWAY from Biden and certainly not (on its own) TOWARD your own candidate. I like Warren. This kind of crap from you or other supporters is not helping her, however.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)It does not define Sanders. It was not his baby - and you can see - that he had issues with it.
"And in 2016, after CNBC asked Biden if he was ashamed of the 1994 law, Biden responded, Not at all. As a matter of fact, I drafted the bill, if you remember."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration
____
Other things define Warren. They have more to do with go after big money and fraudsters. I prefer that as a cause - over having as a cause the expansion of the death penalty and mass incarceration.
I really think people ought to own up to Biden and his proud identity with that bill of his.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hlthe2b
(102,119 posts)BETTER SUPPORTERS!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)He couldn't, he wasn't in the Senate then. There was a crime bill in the House that year, but Sanders voted against it. So you should "check the facts before squandering any credible argument."
But in the bigger picture, I am talking about their entire perspectives. Listen to what Biden said in that clip, talking about his own, 1991, wholeheartedly supported bill:
That's what I was talking about. You've never heard something like that from Sanders, not even in 1991. Positions and philosophical statements, not just votes. Votes can involve compromise, you vote for things that include thing you don't agree with to get the things you do. But then listen to them speak about what they agree with and what they don't. That's where Sanders has been far more consistent than Biden over the years.
So while Sanders didn't vote on that 1991 Biden bill, you're probably thinking about the later 1994 crime bill, which both Sanders and Biden voted for. But the two of them still had different perspectives. Again, Biden supported it wholeheartedly... the Senate version was actually called the Biden-Hatch crime bill. Sanders, OTOH, voted for it with major reservations. There were things he liked (he's spoken about the Violence Against Women provisions), but things he spoke against even as he voted for it, including voting for an amendment to take the death penalty out of it. Ignore the obnoxious background music, this video makes the point, comparing how the two of them discussed the 1994 bill as it was happening... one thinking it was a great bill with his name on it, the other speaking against it despite ultimately voting for it as a difficult compromise. Virtually all of what Bernie said, he'd say today. I assume/hope that's not true of Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal91-1110541
Wow.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bloom
(11,635 posts)I was looking for more about that -> racial justice provision
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Not sure why you can't get to it from that page, but the title of the article is:
Anti-Crime Bill Falls Victim to Partisanship - CQ Almanac Online Edition
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tirebiter
(2,532 posts)A bit of a reach.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)And in 2016, after CNBC asked Biden if he was ashamed of the 1994 law, Biden responded, Not at all. As a matter of fact, I drafted the bill, if you remember.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.
Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.
Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,346 posts)Thats not a good thing. And I dont hold that against her in the least.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassler
(3,369 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bloom
(11,635 posts)Biden is still proud of his crime bill.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20nymag/intelligencer%20%28Daily%20Intelligencer%20-%20New%20York%20Magazine%29&utm_content=Google%20Feedfetcher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)"It is my firm belief that clearly there are people in our society who are horribly violent, who are deeply sick and sociopathic, and clearly these people must be put behind bars in order to protect society from them.
But it is also my view that through the neglect of our government and through a grossly irrational set of priorities, we are dooming today tens of millions of young people to a future of bitterness, misery, hopelessness, drugs, crime, and violence. And, Mr. Speaker, all the jails in the world and we already imprison more people per capita than any other country and all of the executions in the world will not make that situation right.
We can either educate or electrocute. We can create meaningful jobs, rebuilding our society, or we can build more jails. Mr. Speaker, let us create a society of hope and compassion, not one of hate and vengeance."
https://www.vox.com/2016/2/26/11116412/bernie-sanders-mass-incarceration
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)(that is - the VOX link, info)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)black men under the bus, but its okay to throw black men under the bus if it helps women. Got it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)Biden is the one - if you watch the clip - who wrote the bill -and is proud of his 51 death penalty provisions. Also - he is very flippant regarding the racial provisions. He supports the bill with them or without them. That is what the clip is about.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(296,834 posts)as long as you had to bring this "gotcha" up.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)Someone else posted elsewhere that we should look at Biden's record. Well - here is some of it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(296,834 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,708 posts)-John Maynard Keynes
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)It didn't really bear fruit against Clinton in 2016. It weakened her, but ultimately didn't kill her in the primaries.
It doesn't appear to be even weakening Biden.
I'd prefer someone else too, but strikes me the best way to do so is going to be for one of our preferred candidates to break out during the debates and inspire folks to vote for them, not "look how wrong Biden was on this or that issue 30+ years ago!"
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bloom
(11,635 posts)I don't really know the full story on any of them - and Biden is no exception.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)or asked that question to get the full story on Biden.
How's that work exactly?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)you're supporting a candidate regardless of that lack of knowledge?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)If I were to find out that another candidate was better - I would change who I plan to vote for.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)as you put it, about the candidates in general
Why is that?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
John Fante
(3,479 posts)epidemic - the homicide rate was nearly DOUBLE what it is today. Not saying some of those harsh crime bills were right, but it was a different era then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)And they did start falling in the early 90's. As the mass incarceration of blacks was steadily increasing.
Have you watched the documentary, "13th". It's streaming on Netflix. It is illuminating. The crackdown on crack can easily be seen as racially unjust.
This article is also illuminating:
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20nymag/intelligencer%20%28Daily%20Intelligencer%20-%20New%20York%20Magazine%29&utm_content=Google%20Feedfetcher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)enforcement response at the time, as the violent behavior of users and dealers threatened the majority of law-abiding citizens and their children.
They wanted relief. They were not for the revolving door that no sooner swept up an offender than he would be released to occupy the same street corner or house next door.
The crack epidemic was a scourge. If you lived next to a crack house, usually a rental with a landlord safely elsewhere, you were imperiled.
Later, the built in racial inequities of the crack down, within the justice system, and attendant police abuses in carrying it out became more apparent and so the 1994 has been challenged in its entirety.
At the time, however, there was the sense that law enforcement and the judicial system did not care about largely black neighborhoods, turned a blind eye to the 95 percent preyed upon by the 5 percent. In fact, this had been true.
Unintended, dire consequences can arise out of aggressive policies meant to solve problems.
The 1994 crime act had different parts to it.
I wait to see what Biden says about the bill in its entirety.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,278 posts)Shall we discuss how the candidate we both support was a Republican during that time?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)Someone else said we should look at his record. That's what this is. It's his record.
Someone might like it - for all I know.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
melman
(7,681 posts)when a candidate's 'experience' is supposed to be his big selling point, but to actually talk about the things he's done is a smear.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Unless you plan to post info from other candidates actions and activities during that time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,705 posts)Front runneritis...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)I didn't think he would be as popular as he seems to be.
But yeah - front runners should expect more questioning than others.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I don't support Biden, but come on, now. 1991?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bloom
(11,635 posts)This is not an old story - this is Biden's story - whether he continues to talk about it on the campaign trail or not. And actually - it's one that anyone voting in the primary should be aware of - so they can cast a knowledgable vote. You can bet - if Biden were to win the primary - this would be a big issue in the general - by the Republicans. It could be difficult to show much light between Biden and Trump on this issue - at least. And it seems to be Biden's proudest accomplishment.
"Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was?"
Joe Biden once called state-mandated school integration the most racist concept you can come up with, and Barack Obama the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean. He was a staunch opponent of forced busing in the 1970s, and leading crusader for mass incarceration throughout the 80s and 90s. Uncle Joe has described African-American felons as predators too sociopathic to rehabilitate and white supremacist senators as his friends.
...As of 2007, Biden believed that this stance had aged well. In a memoir released that year, the soon-to-be presidential candidate derided busing as a liberal trainwreck. Education experts disagree. Since some municipalities did integrate their schools through busing (however temporarily), while others did not, scholars have been able to evaluate the policys efficacy. In 2011, researchers at Berkeley found that black students who had spent five years in desegregated schools went on to earn (on average) 25 percent more than those who remained in segregated schools (or, in Bidens phrasing, schools that honored the black awareness concept). Other studies have found that racial segregation impairs learning for black students so severely, it outweighs the positive effects associated with higher household income while integration enhances educational outcomes more profoundly than increasing a schools safety. Meanwhile, contrary to so many white parents fears, integration was not associated with any negative effect on white students educational performance.
...Biden is famous for his lead role in crafting the 1994 crime bill, or, as the senator preferred to call it (as recently as 2015), the 1994 Biden Crime Bill. Some aspects of that legislation remain popular within the Democratic Party among them, the Violence Against Women Act, a federal assault-weapons ban, and funds for community oriented policing. But in 2019 America a place where our nations violent crime rate is near historic lows, while its incarceration rate hovers around world-historic highs the bills broader legacy is ignominious. The Brennan Center succinctly summarized that legacy on the 20th anniversary of the bills passage:
It expanded the death penalty, creating 60 new death penalty offenses under 41 federal capital statutes. It eliminated education funding for incarcerated students, effectively gutting prison education programs. Despite a wealth of research showing education increases post-release employment, reduces recidivism, and improves outcomes for the formerly incarcerated and their families, this change has not been reversed.
And the bill created a wave of change toward harsher state sentencing policy. That change was driven by funding incentives: the bills $9.7 billion in federal funding for prison construction went only to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing (TIS) laws, which lead to defendants serving far longer prison terms. Within 5 years, 29 states had TIS laws on the books, 24 more than when the bill was signed. New York State received over $216 million by passing such laws. By 2000 the state had added over 12,000 prison beds and incarcerated 28 percent more people than a decade before.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20nymag/intelligencer%20%28Daily%20Intelligencer%20-%20New%20York%20Magazine%29&utm_content=Google%20Feedfetcher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I think that moderate Democratics are probably in favor of stricter crime punishment than the far left wing, though not as strict as centrist (between middle-Repub and middle-Democratic people).
I'm a center left Democratic. A fairly standard liberal, I think. Definitely not a centrist. I am a liberal. But definitely not far left. I am in favor of strict crime punishment laws, and not against the death penalty, when used sparingly and when there is a certain kind of evidence. The Democratic Party Platform, I think, is against the death penalty now, but I would bet that it was not in 1991.
All the candidates are Democrats. They all are generally on the same side of the issues.
I don't support Biden. But this election is not about issues. It's about ousting Trump. So posts about particular issues won't have that much effect, short of exposing a felony or something like that.
Hearings and videos of 20 or 30 years ago are silly things to use against a candidate, IMO, because it reminds people how long he's been grappling with the tough issues and on the national scene.
When Cortez and Buttegieg were babies or in elementary school, Biden was grappling with tough issues. To put it in perspective.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LibFarmer
(772 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Are those our only two candidates who supported it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)I would differentiate that Biden supported it enthusiastically (and his name was on the bill); Sanders railed against it at the time and voted for it only reluctantly, as a flawed compromise. I find that more illustrative than the actual vote. Regardless, it would not prevent me from voting for either of them against Trump, of course.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)He railed against the worker program as he voted against a pathway to citizenship. Biden voted for a pathway to citizenship.
Votes dont come with nuance. You vote for it or against it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)You are often forced to vote for things you don't like to get things you do like. But to get an idea about what someone things is good or bad, and what they would change if they had the power to change it, you can listen to their contemporaneous speeches.
Biden loved every bit of the bill, it was his baby. Sanders wanted to vote for some parts of it (like the Violence Against Women provisions), but railed against other parts, and voted for an amendment to try to get the death penalty out of it (tha did not pass). You can only do what you can do, and make your feelings known. Nothing is perfect. But listening to the two of them talk about the bill at the time tells you something about how they were different at the time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Look even more horrific.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)And the issues aren't always simple. Organized labor was against the bill, and Sanders was a big ally of organized labor.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)At the expense of the oppressed.
Very similar to his more recent Russian sanction vote that he claimed he did to hold the Iran Nuclear Deal together. How did that work out. You make a good point. Seems there is a lot of nuance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Are you seriously going to argue that Sanders is an enemy of the economically oppressed??
Along those lines, you might want to look at Biden and the "2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act" which was opposed by Sanders, Warren, and Obama. But no candidate is perfect...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)He voted against a pathway to citizenship because of a workers program that was later expanded. It was at the expense of well over ten million people living in the shadows.
I dont need to look up the Bankruptcy Act. Im well aware of it. Really shitty vote by Biden that harmed a lot of people. There is the difference. You wont see me sticking up for Biden in that vote. Yet people will bend over backwards to excuse Sanders for fighting to keep over ten million people in the shadows. I get it. They are just the collateral damage of nuance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)The distinction I've been trying to make in this thread, relevant to the crime bills, is between what one merely votes for (which is often a compromise of conflicting interests) and what one champions. It is one of the things that keep Biden off my first tier.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Warren was not in politics.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)[I must have missed those discussions where this horse was beaten. Sorry about that. Not everybody lives here.]
This is not an old story - this is Biden's story - whether he continues to talk about it on the campaign trail or not. And actually - it's one that anyone voting in the primary should be aware of - so they can cast a knowledgable vote. You can bet - if Biden were to win the primary - this would be a big issue in the general - but the Republicans. It could be difficult to show much light between Biden and Trump on this issue - at least. And it seems to be Biden's proudest accomplishment.
"Will Black Voters Still Love Biden When They Remember Who He Was?"
Joe Biden once called state-mandated school integration the most racist concept you can come up with, and Barack Obama the first sort of mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean. He was a staunch opponent of forced busing in the 1970s, and leading crusader for mass incarceration throughout the 80s and 90s. Uncle Joe has described African-American felons as predators too sociopathic to rehabilitate and white supremacist senators as his friends.
...As of 2007, Biden believed that this stance had aged well. In a memoir released that year, the soon-to-be presidential candidate derided busing as a liberal trainwreck. Education experts disagree. Since some municipalities did integrate their schools through busing (however temporarily), while others did not, scholars have been able to evaluate the policys efficacy. In 2011, researchers at Berkeley found that black students who had spent five years in desegregated schools went on to earn (on average) 25 percent more than those who remained in segregated schools (or, in Bidens phrasing, schools that honored the black awareness concept). Other studies have found that racial segregation impairs learning for black students so severely, it outweighs the positive effects associated with higher household income while integration enhances educational outcomes more profoundly than increasing a schools safety. Meanwhile, contrary to so many white parents fears, integration was not associated with any negative effect on white students educational performance.
...Biden is famous for his lead role in crafting the 1994 crime bill, or, as the senator preferred to call it (as recently as 2015), the 1994 Biden Crime Bill. Some aspects of that legislation remain popular within the Democratic Party among them, the Violence Against Women Act, a federal assault-weapons ban, and funds for community oriented policing. But in 2019 America a place where our nations violent crime rate is near historic lows, while its incarceration rate hovers around world-historic highs the bills broader legacy is ignominious. The Brennan Center succinctly summarized that legacy on the 20th anniversary of the bills passage:
It expanded the death penalty, creating 60 new death penalty offenses under 41 federal capital statutes. It eliminated education funding for incarcerated students, effectively gutting prison education programs. Despite a wealth of research showing education increases post-release employment, reduces recidivism, and improves outcomes for the formerly incarcerated and their families, this change has not been reversed.
And the bill created a wave of change toward harsher state sentencing policy. That change was driven by funding incentives: the bills $9.7 billion in federal funding for prison construction went only to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing (TIS) laws, which lead to defendants serving far longer prison terms. Within 5 years, 29 states had TIS laws on the books, 24 more than when the bill was signed. New York State received over $216 million by passing such laws. By 2000 the state had added over 12,000 prison beds and incarcerated 28 percent more people than a decade before.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20nymag/intelligencer%20%28Daily%20Intelligencer%20-%20New%20York%20Magazine%29&utm_content=Google%20Feedfetcher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)a primary... a general sure. Even if this sort of thing worked ( it won't). I would not vote for Warren based on this sort of attack on a Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)Your opinion about someone's supporters is not a sensible thing to base your vote on. If you look, I'd bet you will be able to find people whose posts you don't like supporting every candidate, including your candidate of choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,456 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)While Biden people annoy me - that is not why I wouldn't vote for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueTsunami2018
(3,482 posts)Come on. Dredging up things from decades ago is pretty weak sauce. Where is he today? Now matters, not things from the 70s, 80s and 90s.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)And in 2016, after CNBC asked Biden if he was ashamed of the 1994 law, Biden responded, Not at all. As a matter of fact, I drafted the bill, if you remember.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
themaguffin
(3,816 posts)Does everyone fucking forget the context of the time? Or for those of you not born yet, did you try to learn?
There was an epidemic and communities were seeking help.
Jesus fucking Christ.
This is why we can't have nice things.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)Unfortunately - Biden is responsible for a lot of that - and in fact, proud of it.
Yes - you can say - in that time, the early 90's politicians were riding the backlash against the civil rights movement - along with the Republicans. It's not something to be proud of. He put so much into it - that I think he is incapable of recognizing that.
Watch the documentary "13th". Maybe you'll get it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
themaguffin
(3,816 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,957 posts)was just dandy in the 90s?
Please explain.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
themaguffin
(3,816 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,957 posts)You seem to believe that the crack panic justified the mass incarceration.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
themaguffin
(3,816 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,972 posts)And while we agree that context matters, you didn't watch the clip, which is the context for this conversation! Since you don't want to watch it, this is what he says:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stonecutter357
(12,693 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bloom
(11,635 posts)That one of those darn Russian bots (or some secret analytic thing) could have known that this issue would ignite my fire - so it made this video show up on my Twitter feed.
But - if there were such things happening - it would be better to flush these issues out now rather than later.
I think we are better getting things out in the open now. I know many disagree.
If there are people who think that Biden tough on crime thing is a wonderful thing - then they should be ready to defend it, IMO.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)The gun legislation parts of it, for instance, the part addressing violence against women, hate crimes, civil rights crimes, sex offenders...
What didnt work, clearly, three strikes, though at the time, seeing people commit heinous crimes only to serve relatively short sentences, come out to do more of the same, made that element of the bill appealing even to some liberal Dems.
In practice, however, it became unfair, and did not stop the worst criminality as there was no provision to decide between violent and non-violent offenses.
The death penalty part is also controversial, anathema to those strongly against the D.P.
I think it is worthwhile to look at the whole bill, including its provision for crime prevention, before speaking about it as nothing but draconian, racist legislation. Yes, we can say the resultsmass incarcerationwere terribly undesirable And then theres considering the possibility, though jury not in, of some good outcomes.
[link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act|
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,192 posts)reflection of his thinking on anything.
Yet, dare I say, Bernie (and Elizabeth, since she turned Dem) has as many years under his belt but has been pretty consistent all that time in his take on the issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden