Sen. Kamala Harris will announce that she would use executive action to ban import of AR 15

[JonLP24]

Link to tweet

Tried to fit as much as the story in the headline it appears to be a breaking story.

[HopeAgain]

1. Good for Her

And it would prove the gunsplainers wrong.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. I support this idea wholeheartedly... good for Kamala!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[aikoaiko]

3. I can't support banning any semiauto weapons

And it won’t be just the AR15s on the list.

[Demsrule86]

6. I believe they should all be banned....murdering the innocent is their only

purpose.

[aikoaiko]

11. That is the strangest thing I've ever seen written about guns.

Do you really believe that?

[LongtimeAZDem]

14. It's a common belief, and there's no real way to dissuade believers of it

[Demsrule86]

38. Automatics and sem- automatics.,..not all guns. My family has hunters,

When I lived in the country years ago, I had guns...we were off the grid. A gun saved my life. I believe in concealed carry with permit and am completely against open carry.

[Hoyt]

54. Well, they could also be used to train to kill people, shoot targets to be prepared

to shoot people, leave around the house or carry in an auto in case one needs to kill, threaten, or intimidate people, etc.

What rationale do you think attracts most gunners to these weapons?

[USALiberal]

50. Lol, what a shock.....not! Nt

[Demsrule86]

4. I do not support this No one wants guns to be monitored and / or banned ( automatics),

than I do. But I do not believe in legislating from the presidents office. It is wrong when Trump did it and it is still wrong if Harris does it...bypassing congress. The executive branch has too much power. Also with right wing courts, it is unlikely to work.

[aikoaiko]

12. We agree on this issue. Running around the legislative process is undemocratic.

For all issues. Not just guns.

[Demsrule86]

37. I am with you,..

[FBaggins]

5. What's the point?

She could probably do it... but aren’t most of them made in the US?

[ADX]

7. Almost all ARs are made right here in the U.S...

...so banning imports will make almost zero difference...

[Kaleva]

10. About 25% are imported

"There are roughly 15-20 million assault weapons in circulation in the U.S., and more than 4 million of them were imported, the Harris campaign says."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kamala-harris-would-ban-ar-15-style-assault-weapons-imports-source/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=67410928

[aikoaiko]

16. A lot are probably AK variants I would think.

[Kaleva]

18. Could be

Here's a link to some info:

http://knowledgeglue.com/just-how-many-ar15s-are-out-there/

By 2014, there are a very large number of manufacturers making AR-15 style rifles. How many of them are made overseas, I do not know.

[ADX]

22. The list of "assault weapons" consists of DOZENS of makes/models other than the AR-15...

...so again, for the record, virtually all AR-15s are manufactured here in the U.S.

[Kaleva]

23. If you'd read the tweet the OP links to, it talks of AR-15 "style" rifles.

"California Sen. Kamala Harris will announce at a campaign stop Wednesday that she would use executive action to ban imports of AR-15 style assault weapons if elected president, a senior campaign official tells CBS News. ⁦"

Link to tweet

[ADX]

24. I read the tweet, there's no need for condescension...

...but since you're such an expert, why don't you explain to the class what constitutes an AR-15 "style" rifle because the "definition" given in the article is bullshit.

I'll wait.

[Kaleva]

25. If you don't know the answer yourself, you might not want to bother discussing gun control.

[mr_lebowski]

27. I'd imagine ADX wouldn't know Kamala Harris's definition of AR-15 'style' weapon ...

Because there is no legitimate definition of what constitutes an 'AR-15 style' weapon, period.

Making it VERY hard to know what Kamala Harris means by this term.

It's more or less like saying a 'Passenger-Style Vehicle'.

[Kaleva]

32. Here's an article from Field & Stream discussing AR style rifles

The 30 Best AR-Style Rifles for Hunting and Personal Defense

Here's an article from NRA's Shooting Illustrated:

13 New AR-15s for 2019

You will note that many of the rifles in the above article are referred to as being " AR-style".

Another article:

20 New AR-Style Rifles for 2018

I find it hard to believe that anyone would try to claim they don't know what an AR style or AR-15 style rifle is. Unless they had absolutely no knowledge of guns. If the latter is true, it's pointless for them to engage in a discussion about gun control.

[ADX]

36. Here's a fun fact for you...

...Of the 63 different AR "style" firearms featured in the three articles you posted, a grand total of...

1

...is imported, and that one's from Israel.

FYI...

[Kaleva]

41. It was alleged that you didn't know what an AR style rifle was

The post I responded to said nothing of imports nor did mine

[ADX]

56. The only person who "alleged" that...

...was you, the very same person who proved they didn't know when they couldn't define what constitutes an AR "style" rifle.

63 total firearms: 62 domestic, 1 import...

[Kaleva]

58. Do you agree with the following descriptions of AR style rifles?

The 30 Best AR-Style Rifles for Hunting and Personal Defense

20 New AR-Style Rifles for 2018

"The tools to keep an AR-style rifle running in the field are pretty simple—"

Or are you going to argue that you don't know what an AR style rifle is?

[ADX]

60. Of course I know what an AR style rifle is...

...I own several. When I asked you to define what constitutes an AR style rifle, I wasn't asking because I needed you to inform me, I asked so I could determine what YOUR definition of one was. I asked because when I asserted that an overwhelming majority of ARs were manufactured domestically, you responded with a post stating that 25% were imported, which isn't true - that number corresponds to the total number of assault weapons in general, not ARs in particular. I just wanted to see if you knew the difference between an AR and all other "assault weapons" but you um, "declined" to do so...

[Kaleva]

66. The post I made clearly said "assault weapons"

Your comment:

" I asked because when I asserted that an overwhelming majority of ARs were manufactured domestically, you responded with a post stating that 25% were imported, which isn't true"

Here is the text of the post I made:

""There are roughly 15-20 million assault weapons in circulation in the U.S., and more than 4 million of them were imported, the Harris campaign says." "

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=119871

Where in the post did I specify ARs? You won't find it because I didn't.

[LongtimeAZDem]

35. "Extra scary looking gun" is probably as close as we'll get

[Kaleva]

42. I did not think those guns looked scary

Nor did the outdoor sports or NRA shooting site I provided links to refer to them as such.

[Kaleva]

44. You'd agree then that rifles that NRA calls "AR style"...

are not scary looking.

[Kaleva]

47. You are the one who mentiond "Extra scary looking gun". Would these qualify as such?

The 30 Best AR-Style Rifles for Hunting and Personal Defense

[Kaleva]

51. An article by the Shooting Editor of Outdoor Life on how to keep an AR style rifle operational

"The tools to keep an AR-style rifle running in the field are pretty simple—"

https://www.facebook.com/outdoorlife/posts/10154918793161021

Gotta wonder why so many pro gun and hunting sites refer to certain weapons as "AR style" when the person you responded to, and it appears you agree with that person, that "there is no legitimate definition of what constitutes an 'AR-15 style' weapon, period."

[Kaleva]

53. You've already said so no need to repeat yourself

This is a discussion board so members are free to respond to posts other members make which I have done. You don't have to respond in return if you chose not to.

I would like to know though if what a number of gun friendly sites refer to as 'AR style' rifles match your idea of what an "extra scary looking gun" is?

[ADX]

31. LMMFAO...

...Your deflection skills are weak, my friend.

After 10 years of Marine Corps service and 30 years of AR ownership, I've forgotten more about the AR platform and all of its variants than you'll ever know about it so you might want to take your own advice.

Just sayin'...

[Kaleva]

33. You do not impress me.

You are no different then countless others. You do know how to use emojis though so there is that.

[ADX]

34. You impress me even less...

...You are absolutely no different THAN countless others who don't have the first clue what they're talking about when it comes to guns and gun control - well, except for the fact that you don't know the difference between "then" and "than" so there is that.

Don't try to blame it on a typo, either; "e" and "a" aren't that close to each other on the keyboard. Here's another emoji for ya...

[Kaleva]

40. So?

People are as happy or as miserable as they choose to be. I choose happiness. You chose misery and allow others to control your emotions and that's your right to do so.

[ADX]

57. *SIGH*

...Let's review:

This conversation centers on Kamala Harris's promise to ban the importation of AR "style" firearms by executive order. I asserted that almost all ARs are manufactured here in the United States and you replied that "25% are imported", which is false. Per your quote from the Harris campaign, 25% of ALL "assault' weapons are imported but that includes a whole litany of firearms OTHER than ARs/AR variants. In order to make sure we were on the same page as regards firearm type and related importation percentages, I asked you to explain what constituted an AR "style" firearm and instead of simply doing so or admitting that either you didn't know or that you were conflating ARs with ALL assault weapons, you instead chose to get snarky and defensive.

The fact remains that almost all AR/AR variant/AR "style" firearms are manufactured here in the United States and nothing you say changes that.

All that aside, there's nothing miserable about me, I just have a problem with people who refuse to acknowledge their mistakes. As for your "happiness", it's been said that "ignorance is bliss" so make of that what you will but you know as much about psychology as you do about guns, which is little to nothing.

Good day to you...

[Kaleva]

8. Harris, Warren, Klobuchar, Sanders, Gillibrand are supporters of Feinstein's gun control bill

"n addition to banning AR-15-style assault weapon imports, Harris would suspend all other assault weapon imports until the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) conducts a study of whether those imports should be permanently stopped under existing law, such as the 1968 Gun Control Act and firearms bans put in place by the George H. W. Bush and Clinton administrations.

Harris is a backer of the assault weapons ban fellow California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein introduced in January. That bill would make it a crime to sell, import, export, transfer or own a semi-automatic assault weapon or large capacity ammunition feeding device, with some exceptions.

Other 2020 Democratic presidential candidates who support Feinstein's bill include Senators Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Bernie Sanders of Vermont. "

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kamala-harris-would-ban-ar-15-style-assault-weapons-imports-source/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=67410928

[JonLP24]

9. Thanks for the info

[aikoaiko]

17. Someday this may happen. This is why I'm using a trust and NFA

...To protect all my ARs as short-barrel rifles.

I put my son on the trust.

[Kaleva]

21. I'm sticking with revolvers and single shot break action shotguns.

They more then meet my needs and it's very highly unlikely that there will be any serious efforts to prohibit such.

[spin]

55. I am a dinosaur so I like wheel guns (revolvers) too. ...

i also own one shotgun, a double barreled coach gun.

However I do own a several semi-automatic pistols for target shooting. Most use .22 long rife ammo but one is Colt .45 Gold Cup National Match.

[Kaleva]

59. Even today, the revolver does have some advantages over the pistol

Inherently more reliable.

Easier to visually check if loaded.

Less controversial then a pistol.

[LongtimeAZDem]

15. This is why I can no longer realistically believe that Biden/Harris would work

[JonLP24]

19. Speaking of Biden/Harris

Link to tweet

[LongtimeAZDem]

20. Pretty silly statement from someone whose being out-polled by Biden by more than 4 to 1

[mr_lebowski]

28. It is also legit funny though ;) (nt)

[LongtimeAZDem]

30. Yeah, I gotta give her that

[Celerity]

26. I have been asking this very question of Biden supporters(the ones who auto default to Harris as VP)

for weeks, and never gotten an satisfactory answer. Her executive orders on guns (this was not the first one) promises, her all in on MFA (not just a public option) and her being the 2nd (after Warren) to jump on him about the women complaining Joe was too 'handsy' stuff (she said she believed all the women) see to be off cant with Biden's messaging and targeting.

I do not see how this ticket would be compatible with Joe's overarching drive to take back Midwest moderates and centrists. Harris isnt even polling that great with PoC in multiple states, certainly nowhere near Biden's level himself. She also probably brings no new states into play. Hell will freeze over before we (I am in Southern California) vote Rethug for POTUS.

In full disclosure, I would rather her elected POTUS than Biden, but I do not see how she is an ideal compliment to him. I think Abrams would be far more effective.

[JonLP24]

62. Joe Biden is already a centrist & moderate

Picking another centrist moderate alienates progressives & POC.

Kama Harris moved back in my top 4 after my earlier concerns about her attorney general record.

[Celerity]

63. I am definitely not advocating Biden choose a centrist as his VP. Stacey Abrams is not a centrist.

Pete is not a centrist (Bernie Bros/TYT/Justice Democrats/Bernie Staffer's bullshit attempts to paint his as a 'corpodem neoliberal' are insane). Inslee is not a centrist, especially on global climate change. Warren is so not a centrist (although there is 20 years of animosity between the two, BUT if Joe did pick Warren, that shows he is massively open-minded and will to put past disputes behind him).

[JonLP24]

67. I didn't say Warren or Inslee is a centrist

I like Inslee. He may actually sign something like the Green New Deal.

I try to come here as a safe space I post an OP that doesn't have anything to do with Bernie but I still come across "Bernie Bro" which every progressive knows is a myth. He won younger women. Twitter is so insane I see women get called Bernie Bros. This is why I post at JPR at least I don't have to see "BS" there.

Warren is my second choice and I donated multiple times to her.

[Celerity]

69. I didn't mean to imply you said they were centrists

Sorry for the confusion from my end.

And yes, I am progressive and so not a Bernie Bro (I am a 23yo queer female for starters, lolol). The co-opting of 'progressiveness' by Sanders and his paid, non-DU minions is really damaging IMHO. His (and theirs, even more so) divisive arc is tainting us all.

[JonLP24]

70. I agree but on Twitter there are bad centrists

It frightened me when Sally Albright was following me but she quit I guess I wasn't controversial enough to 'keep an eye on' I mostly just retweet anyways.

This below is crazy to me.

Link to tweet

?s=19

I logged off last primary so I missed all the wars for the most progressives are the nicest empathetic political people even if they are harsh on Democrats. I agree there are people like Jimmy Dore (who still believes the DNC hacked emails came from "disgusted insiders" rather than Russia) the problem is he has a show & influences progressives into believing this. TYT was wise to let him go.

[Celerity]

71. It is simple for me

Bad 'centrists' (and I would argue they are not even centrists, they are centre right)

Advocate for wealth extraction from the bottom 90% that flows up to the .01% via:

(I can go into great depth on all of these)

1 Healthcare, were they block a public option and seek to keep the rapacious for-profit private insurance template (and the ACA as a stand alone endgame is in itself a pathway to rapaciousness, there is no superstructure inherent in it to stop the never-ending massive increases in premiums and co-pay and prescription drug price gouging) as the only dominant model.

2 Public university tuition, where their model keeps a FOUR year degree (and beyond) from a public institutions still costing a significant amount of money, an amount of money and its concurrent debt that is ruinous for tens of millions )

3 A continuation of financial deregulation (17 Democratic caucus members voted to gut even the tepid Dodd-Frank reforms) and a failure to not only re-instate Glass-Steagall but also undue the horrific Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 that re-legalised multiple forms of 'financial weapons of mass destruction' derivatives as a legal financial instruments.

Anyone supporting the continuation of blocking those reform policies will NEVER get my support in the primaries. I will, with great sorrow, vote for a Democratic nominee in the general who is against those vital reforms only because a Trumpian continuance is worse.

[JonLP24]

72. I meant behavior

Bernie Bro usually implies a lot of bad behavior. People can have policy differences and that is fine. I forgot to mention in my first post Bernie Bro was a spinoff of "Obama boys" from the 2008 primary. I missed the primary wars for that one too. I got out of the Army in July 2008 and joined DU shorrtly thereafter.

I definitely agree on #3.

[The Mouth]

65. What assuaged your concerns about her attorney general record?

It's still far and away my biggest hesitancy regarding supporting her in the primary. I have looked and haven't seen an absolute and unambiguous refutation of Civil Asset Forfeiture (in the absence of a guilty verdict) and in the primary that's an absolute deal breaker for me.

Thanks

[JonLP24]

68. Her recent primary proposals

Especially the one where she plans to help out public defenders. Of course it could be campaign rhetoric but she does have a progressive record as Senator.

[PoliticAverse]

29. This should help slumping gun sales. n/t

[keithbvadu2]

39. A national emergency. There is a precedent now.

A national emergency. There is a precedent now.

[LongtimeAZDem]

45. And we rejected and ridiculed such action; I personally have no wish to see us sink to Trump's level

[keithbvadu2]

49. Rejected? In what way? Is it still a 'national emergency'?

Rejected? In what way? Is it still a 'national emergency'?

Ridiculed? Oh, Yeah!

[TreasonousBastard]

61. Fascinating how this thread devolved into quibbling over "AR-25 style assault weapons" when...

it should be obvious that she meant generic scary guns that have been used to kill a lot of people, whatever the design. And has no interest in defining specifics.

And I do remember my military training-- M1's in ROTC, M14's in the actual army, and various other grenades, small artillery pieces, handguns and whatevers. None of these, btw, was ever described as a hunting weapon. We were taught to use them to kill "the enemy", not bears or bison. Curiously, at bayonet practice we were taught to yell that the spirit of the bayonet is "to kill".

Better to call them "the enemy" than just some guys fighting for their own country. "The enemy" must be dehumanized so it's easier to kill him. Put "the enemy" in the same class as rats and possums so it seems more like pest control than killing fathers and brothers of unseen families.

Never got to use an M16 since they were all sent to 'Nam and I never got over there, but what I heard from the guys who came back was most often "piece of shit".

[aikoaiko]

64. I think you're right. In the 1990s, the AK-style was the visual for evil black rifles.

A la Diana Feinstein in the 1990s.



Now its the AR-style.

A la Diana Feinstein in the 2010s
?ve=1&tl=1
Bonus evil -- bump stock.