WATCH: Bernie Sanders Says 'I Don't Know' When Asked About a Major Abortion Rights Issue

[George II]

Independent Vermont Senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders may have run afoul of pro-choice voters when he was asked how he would deal with a major reproductive rights issue as president, and replied “I don’t know.”

(snip....)

“Are you in all concerned, though, about this idea that people may try to worry about the sex of a child, or essentially, are those types of restrictions on abortions something you’re open to?” Todd asked.

“That, I mean, that’s a concern,” Sanders said as Todd was asking, then answered, haltingly, “Well, that’s not a, I wouldn’t use a restriction on, that’s an issue that society has got to deal with, and it is of concern.”

“How would you deal with that in the law?” Todd asked.

“I don’t know how, at this particular point, I would deal with it, but that is an issue that we really have got to deal with,” Sanders replied.

Sanders seemed unprepared for the question, and perhaps unaware that reproductive rights organizations like NARAL Pro-Choice America and Planned Parenthood uniformly oppose laws restricting abortions on the basis Todd cites for a number of reasons.

“Sex-selective abortion bans are deceptive laws that exploit racial stereotypes and result in doctors questioning their patients’ motives and restricting entire communities from accessing care,” said Planned Parenthood of New York City in opposing one such law.

Watch the clip above, via NBC.

(more....)

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-bernie-sanders-says-i-dont-know-when-asked-about-a-major-abortion-rights-issue/

[Cha]

1. Kick for Exposure.

[BannonsLiver]

2. Surprised he didn't immediately pivot to income inequality

[WhiskeyGrinder]

157. This.

[MustLoveBeagles]

3. He wasn't prepared. Again

Last edited Sun May 19, 2019, 05:44 PM - Edit history (3)

And he should've been. The topic of abortion has been in the news all week due to several states adopting draconian abortion restrictions. So while this may have been a gotcha question about a issue that doesn't exist, Bernie should've been better prepared for abortion to come up during the interview. Bernie then could've called Chuck Todd on his nonsense and given an informed response instead of the lame "I don't know." I'm not trying to pick on Bernie but he could've handled this better. What in the world is going on with his campaign?

[thesquanderer]

13. Abortion for the purpose of sex selection has been in the news all week?

Not in the coverage I've seen, anyway. I don't know whether Sanders should have been prepared for that or not, but it is something of a "gotcha" question as a followup to someone who has just put forth a strong pro-choice position. And a ridiculous question as it is not something that can realistically be independently legislated against anyway.

[MustLoveBeagles]

17. I reread my post due to your post and have edited for clarity

It was Bernie's response to Chuck Todd's question that I had an issue with. He didn't handle it well at all.

[CharleyDog]

53. I agree. I read the news avidly, and no mention of this issue. Frankly, I wouldn't know how to

discuss this issue either. I'm not a Berniebro, but c'mon, the election is 500+ days away, and we cannot realistically expect each candidate to have answers for everything. Perhaps, he could have said "Abortion IS healthcare" like Inslee said, that's a good answer. or "I support a woman's right to choose. It is a private matter between her, her family, and her physician/nurse practitioner."

[wasupaloopa]

77. Here is how to discuss it. DON'T It is nobody's business why a woman wants an abortion.

[LuvNewcastle]

178. Exactly.

The public doesn't have the right to decide if a woman is having an abortion for the right reason.

[Beaverhausen]

114. In 2016 he called it an "unimportant issue"

Why would he worry about it now?

[ehrnst]

118. In 2013 he was saying Democrats were getting "hung up" on abortion and gay marriage issues

“These are guys getting hung up on gay marriage issues,” Sanders told Schultz. “They’re getting hung up on abortion issues. And it is time we started focusing on the economic issues that bring us together: Defending Social Security, defending Medicare, making sure that Medicaid is not cut, that veterans’ programs are not cut.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2013/10/bernie-sanders-tells-ed-schultz-southern-democrats-are-tired-of-being-abandoned-by-the-party/

[mcar]

133. ...

[joshcryer]

164. Called Planned Parenthood "establishment."

Actually sparked a boycott among his supporters.

[NurseJackie]

179. I remember that! Clueless and unforgivable thing to say.

He really has NO BUSINESS trying to become our party's nominee for president of the United States.

NONE whatsoever! Zero!

[ehrnst]

188. That's a go to perjorative of his.... I WISH Planned Parenthood and the Black Congressional Caucus

were the "establishment."

[murielm99]

4. K&R.

[GeniusJoy]

5. Abortion due to sex of fetus?

That is not even a thing. It's a RW taking point. Why did Bernie say it's an issue that has to be dealt with? It's not. The right answer is... Women do not need to give a reason to the government.

[comradebillyboy]

138. It was common in China during the 'one child policy'. It's still

a common practice in China and India. China ended the one child policy but big families aren't making a comeback.

[lapucelle]

6. Meanwhile in Alabama...

In Birmingham, “A March for Reproductive Freedom,” will be held starting at 6 p.m. at the 17th Street N and 5th Avenue N corner of Kelly Ingram Park. A rally will take place immediately following the march inside the pavilion at Kelly Ingram Park [on Sunday, May 19].

The event also coincides with a rally in support of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. But the organizers say that the two rallies are unrelated to each other.

https://www.al.com/politics/2019/05/abortion-ban-protests-expected-to-draw-big-crowds.html

[50 Shades Of Blue]

7. Let's ask Bernie if he ever voted for the Hyde amendment. Or worked on legislation to prevent

Federal employees from getting abortion coverage in their health insurance.

You know, like Joe Biden did.

[Nuggets]

18. There's a good question. nt

[ehrnst]

50. BUT WHATABOUT BIDEN????!!!!!

[sheshe2]

8. Dear Goddess.

[Hav]

9. I'm not a Bernie fan but

Todd, as usual, is a master baiter and I can understand being stumped by questions like this. Raising what I think is a non-topic in the US is muddying the waters. No one likes abortions simply based on the baby/fetus not having the preferred gender. But that should be totally independent of the general issue of abortion rights.
Not that it could have been answered better but this seems to be a question specifically designed to make candidates, especially pro-choice proponents, look bad: Getting forced to either propose limits to abortions or be on record to support abortions based on gender preference.

[Nuggets]

19. I wholeheartedly agree.

Chuck Todd is a GOP tool. It’s a dumb question however, Bernie has now claimed it’s an important issue. Apparently answering honestly according to a comment below.

[ehrnst]

64. He could have said that it was a fallacy, and 'not' a real concern in the US.

If he contradicted the premise of the question, he didn't have to answer it at all.

But he didn't know that.

[emmaverybo]

65. Selective abortion is widely used in India, where it affects female birth rates, which has not

helped the fate of girls and women there. But this is a gotcha stupid question Todd pulled to put Bernie in a bind. I am no Bernie apologist, but deplore this tactic.

[Hortensis]

83. Hav, the man's been in congress for nearly 30 years,

which means he's supposed to know SOMETHING about the whole range of public issues, enough to be able to point out serious issues and lines of thought like a thoughtful man without committing to solutions. This one has been discussed that entire period as medical science has advanced. Any pol should be able to slick his way through, segue to a related issue if he runs short of material.

"I don't know" has been a common answer for him, including to questions about how he would turn his campaign promises into reality. What on earth has he been doing with his time all these years? The senate is a slow, deliberative body. He doesn't fund raise for senate projects like others do, he's never been a leader, he doesn't write legislation, he doesn't negotiate deals, he's isolated and doesn't socialize with his colleagues. I've never heard of a hobby.

He also has a professional staff he could instruct to research and put together little briefings and answers for him. He can ask them to scan current issues and foresee questions, keep him up to date if browsing newspapers and occasional journals is too onerous.

I'm serious. Way too many "I don't knows." Only the first one got points for seeming refreshingly honest about his ignorance.

[Dream Girl]

128. Agree it came out of left field. What was he supposed to say.

And I don’t particularly care for Bernie. It was a total gotcha

[ehrnst]

155. If a candidate is that vulnerable to a 'gotcha' question that was so easily defused

with basic knowledge of RW legislation on abortion, what does that say about a candidate's knowledge base?

Sarah Palin called, "What do you read?" a gotcha question.

[ecstatic]

144. But at the same time, when CNN tried their best to stump candidates

by bringing up Bernie's "all prisoners should vote" idea, most of the candidates were able to process what was being asked and to respond accordingly. We're in the big leagues. It shouldn't be hard for a politician to listen to a question and then answer it.

[Demsrule86]

146. If Sanders had women's backs ...he would have had an answer. The truth is in my opinion,

He doesn't care about choice ...and women won't benefit from his economic policies if they don't have the ability to decide when or if to give birth. Here in Ohio, they are going after birth control as well. It is an attack on women.

[corbettkroehler]

10. Major Issue? My Political Calculus Differs From Yours

What you saw was one of Bernie's best traits: honesty.

Could he use more media coaching? Yes. Should his answer have begun with "I don't know". Certainly not. However, when we think about the overwhelming numbers of abortions, especially the fact that many women who now must pursue illegal abortions live below the poverty line, you would have to do much more than show this interview to convince me that gender-selective abortions qualify as a major issue.

In fact, I echo the next part of his answer, "...that is an issue that we really have got to deal with"

[GeniusJoy]

11. Why do we have to deal with it?

It's non existent. Besides, women should not have to give a reason for why they have an abortion.

[Politicub]

29. This. This is the answer. It's non-existent.

Todd should have been challenged as to why he even asked such a ridiculous question.

[corbettkroehler]

31. In Principle, I Concur But There Are (Otherwise Flippable) Center-Right Voters Who'd Want An Answer

I concur that Chuck's question was in the vein of the worst gotcha queries out there but this issue will arise on the trail, if not the primary, then, the general.

The other side will try to use this as bait to portray pro-choice voters as radicals who think that there should be no limits on anything.

[ehrnst]

59. You think that a Democratic politician should be reinforcing fallacies from the anti-choice

forces?

The answer Sanders gave did exactly that.

[corbettkroehler]

62. Fallacious Or Not, Some Voters Want An Answer And He Pursued Those Voters

By your thinking, he should not have appeared on Faux News. Per Joe Scarborough, there are winnable voters who watch Faux.

[ehrnst]

66. Are you now trying to claim that Sanders reinforced that fallacy to "pursue those voters?"

You are twisting yourself in knots trying to make this answer he gave some sort of 'positive,' and failing.

What other fallacies do you propose that Democrats reinforce for "flippable voters?" That there are ISIS members coming in with immigrants at the southern border?

[corbettkroehler]

71. The Last Time I Checked, Honesty Was A Good Thing

I haven't turned myself even 90 degrees. The facts are simple:

1) His answer was honest but inartful.

2) True or false, and this thread alone proves that voters are all over the map on this issue, we can take it to the bank that the radical right will use gender selective abortion as a wedge rebuttal when we try to assert women's health care. Wager as much money as you want on this point. It is a sure thing.

3) The job of every candidate who truly wants to win is to pursue as many voters as possible without betraying the truth. With his answer, that is precisely what Bernie did. The fact that we know this to be a false issue changes nothing in the game of politics. The other side will use this lie as a cudgel. Thus, it needs to be addressed. Besides, by saying that we have to deal with it, Sanders left himself room to deal with the fallacious aspects.

[ehrnst]

92. Last time I checked, your posts are still visible

1) His answer perpetuated an anti-choice fallacy.

2) True or false, and this thread alone proves that voters are all over the map on this issue, we can take it to the bank that the radical right will use gender selective abortion as a wedge rebuttal when we try to assert women's health care. Wager as much money as you want on this point. It is a sure thing.

It's false, and your attempt to defend a gaffe as "reaching out to 'voters all over the map' on 'this issue' is not working.

Do we also just pander to the 'radical right' when it comes to cutting the social safety net, caging immigrants or fossil fuels because they will use it as a "wedge issue?"

The job of every candidate who truly wants to win is to pursue as many voters as possible without betraying the truth. With his answer, that is precisely what Bernie did. The fact that we know this to be a false issue changes nothing in the game of politics.

Again, your attempt to defend a gaffe as out to "pursue as many voters as possible without betraying the truth," is not working. He didn't know what he was talking about, but still tried to answer a question, and perpetuated a fallacy. Yes, that very much matters when a politician claims the mantle of 'feminist' and turns out not to know a basic fallacy used against women's reproductive rights.

The other side will use this lie as a cudgel. Thus, it needs to be addressed. Besides, by saying that we have to deal with it, Sanders left himself room to deal with the fallacious aspects.

"Socialism" will give the 'other side' more than enough to use as a cudgel. I don't see Sanders promoting RW fallacies about that. And by saying "we have to deal with it" Sanders didn't leave any room for the actual truth that it's not an issue we need to deal with.
Should we expect him to say that ISIS coming through the southern border with immigrants is "a concern" and saying "we have to deal with it" in order to 'leave himself room to deal with the fallacious aspects?"

Going from saying he was "honest but inartful" to trying to spin it as some kind of purposeful chess move by Sanders is the most desperate rationalization you've attempted on this thread.

Status quo political spin doctoring of a gaffe.

[corbettkroehler]

94. Honesty Is No Gaffe And Perception Is Everything

Some voters think this is an issue and that number may grow when tRump uses it as a wedge issue. If you can't see that, there's no point in dancing around the truth. Every single aspect of my answers stands.

[ehrnst]

106. Perpetuating a lie by saying that it's "a concern" is at best, a gaffe.

Some voters think this is an issue and that number may grow when tRump uses it as a wedge issue.

Some voters think that immigrants crossing the border are ISIS terrorists in disguise. Do you support Candidates saying' "That's an issue that needs to be dealt with?"

Seriously?

If you can't see that, there's no point in dancing around the truth. Every single aspect of my answers stands.

Stonewalling is a common defense mechanism when one's arguments are rebutted

[LibFarmer]

148. What is next for Sanders?

A support for the Charlottesville march? That may get a few center-right votes too.

I can't believe that some BS supporters are so much into their blind support that they not only can't see the major screwups of their candidate but are out there defending the indefensible.

[Joediss]

177. Lost me

Any presidental candidate that has one of their town halls on Fox news has lost my vote in the primarys, they are throwing fox news a life boat as far as I am concerned, while they are having trouble getting people to advertise on there.

[corbettkroehler]

90. Since Your Candidate Passed On The Faux News Appearance, We'll Have To Differ On Strategy

I have nothing but respect for Warren's decision to skip Faux on philosophical grounds. I hope that you share my respect for Sanders' decision to become a modern day Daniel in the lion's den by defying political death in confronting the danger in order to reach voters on the other side.

[ehrnst]

158. I didn't see any good coming from Sanders appearing on FauxNews.

I doubt that there were many regular Faux viewers turned in for actual performance, and instead tuned in the next day, as always, to watch the pundits tear him to pieces using their own footage.

[Cha]

175. Didn't BS' polls

go down after his town hall on faux?

Could be just a coincidence.

[wasupaloopa]

82. Simply say a woman has a right to an abortion and does not need to tell us the reason. In other

words Chuck butt out.

[corbettkroehler]

86. A Better Answer, I Concur

Let's hope his people read D.U.

[katmondoo]

14. Really?????

[Nuggets]

21. Bernie honestly thinks this is an important issue?

I’m confused
Is it not an important issue?

“Major Issue? My Political Calculus Differs From Yours”

Or is it an important issue?

“...that is an issue we really have to deal with.”


And how is answering a nonsense rw talking point with “this is an issue we need to deal with.” being honest?

[corbettkroehler]

26. The Main Point Of The Thread Was His Words "I Don't Know"

For a politician, that's as honest as it gets.

[ehrnst]

30. He doesn't know a basic anti-choice argument used to fight abortion access?

Well, he's honest about not putting reproductive rights near the top of the list of prioritiest

Just because it's an "honest" answer doesn't mean it's one that reveals something positive.
.

[Politicub]

32. That was the wrong answer. Bernie doesn't get a pass on this.

I doubt a woman would have said, “I don’t know.”

[corbettkroehler]

33. I Wrote "Honest", Not "A Pass"

His answer could have been much better but I have no doubts regarding his pro-choice bona fides.

[ehrnst]

57. By agreeing that an anti-choice fallacy is an actual 'concern?"

You have been trying to give him a pass all over this thread.

[Nuggets]

34. Lol

No it wasn’t He claimed it was an important issue that needed dealt with. Where’s the honesty in that?

Why didn’t he just say the government has no business getting involved in women’s health decisions?

[corbettkroehler]

35. Let's Try This Again...

The title of this thread is, "WATCH: Bernie Sanders Says 'I Don't Know' When Asked About a Major Abortion Rights Issue" and I addressed that title of this thread. For a politician to utter those words points to his honesty.

[Nuggets]

37. Trying to hide what he actually said doesn't change the fact

that he said it was an important issue to deal with. Since it isn’t and that’s just a right wing talking point, that would be a lie.

By definition a lie is not honesty.

[corbettkroehler]

48. Hiding Precisely Nothing

I admitted that his answer could have been much better. No amount of tweaking will change my mind, though, that he gave an honest answer. Honesty is in short supply in our politics.

[ehrnst]

52. He gave an answer to a question that he didn't know the answer to.

He said, "It's a concern" when it's only a 'concern' among anti-choicers.

Trying to deflect from that the issue by saying was "honest" doesn't change that.

[corbettkroehler]

84. Unlike Trump, Sanders Seeks To Represent The Entire Nation, All Voters

Even though they're wrong, anti-choicers vote, too. Diplomacy is about the art of the possible. Winning election is similar. There are flippable Trump voters who may agree with Sanders on twenty issues but would write him off today if he dodged that question. They know he was honest.

[ehrnst]

120. Let's unpack this.

Diplomacy is about the art of the possible. Winning election is similar.

You mean like supporting something more doable than MFA? Haven't seen that yet...

There are flippable Trump voters who may agree with Sanders on twenty issues but would write him off today if he dodged that question. They know he was honest.

You mean those who were watching that interview thought he was "honest" when he perpetuated the RW fallacy that mischaracterizes and slanders women, instead of saying honestly that he didn't really know much about that issue?

Can you show me any data on those Trump voters who "who may agree with Sanders on twenty issues but would write him off today if he dodged that question."

Especially the vnes that think CNN is fake news?

How do you feel if he had been informed on the issue, and been honest about how that trope is false? Do you think those voters you say exist in large numbers, watching CNN, and agreeing with him on twenty issues would have appreciated "honesty" based on actualy expertise rooted in concern for the issue of abortion?

[mcar]

134. So it's ok to perpetuate a lie to get votes?

[Nuggets]

58. I wasn't the one cherry picking his answer

The “tweaking ” was your own doing, by leaving out half his statement. His answer was dishonest and I clearly explained why using Sanders own words from his entire answer.

Honesty is sure in short supply from some politicians, that’s for sure.

[corbettkroehler]

63. The Title Of This Thread Cherry Picked His Answer And I Responded, Nothing More (n/t)

[ehrnst]

70. That's a new one.

From, "Well, he was honest, unlike other politicians," to "He was just inartful" to "He wants to reach voters on 'the other side" to "I'm only talking about the title of the article where he said "I don't know" and nothing more.

[corbettkroehler]

75. I Suggest You Read The Totality Of All Of My Replies

100%+ of my answers stand. I have addressed every critique fairly and, now that I have taken incoming fire from every direction, retract any previous reservations I had about Bernie's answer. I prefer an honest politician with the capacity to do better next time every day of the week.

[ehrnst]

121. I have not only read your replies but refuted the attempted spin.

100%+ of my rebuttals stand. I have addressed every mischaracterization and rationalization fairly and factually and, now that I have seen the spin veer from every direction, am more convinced that fact checking falls on deaf ears when it comes to tribal thinking.

I prefer an honest politician with the capacity to do better next time every day of the week. That would not include any politician who refuses to acknowledge that they might have something to learn, or that they may have made a mistake.

[Nuggets]

74. And you responded with a half answer

and called it honesty.

Do you just read headlines to get your news too?

[corbettkroehler]

76. Addressing All Points Is A Half Answer?

I'd suggest you check your math. I addressed all of his answer as follows:

1) He answered honestly yet inartfully.

2) Fallacious or not, the critique over gender-selective abortion will be raised by the other side. It will be employed as a cudgel. Any voters who believe otherwise have rose-colored glasses.

Bernie did not feed the misconception; he addressed it, just as he pursued a wider audience by appearing on Faux News. The last time I checked, Sanders has been criticized as unable to attract red state voters. Appearing on Faux News and answering honestly on an out-there abortion question is doing exactly what he has been criticized for failing to do.

[Nuggets]

85. You didn't address

“ this is an important issue that needs to be dealt with” the end if the sentence you seem to have a need to separate.
The one part you keep insisting on leaving out. The part after “I don’t know.”

The dishonest part.

He most certainly did feed the misconception by pretending it existed and is a real problem that needs looked into.

That appearing on Fox news means nothing. It is irrelevant to this conversation.

[corbettkroehler]

88. If That's What He Truly Believes, How Is His Answer Dishonest?

You may quibble with his political beliefs but you haven't shown me that his answer was anything but honest. Have you heard him say that gender selective abortion is a non-issue? I have not.

[Nuggets]

93. If he believes a right wing talking point needs

looked into, he’s not informed enough to be a good president. He’s no spring chicken and he can’t perform under pressure.


But let’s take a look

He said he didn’t know, you said that was an honest answer

Now you say “If That's What He Truly Believes, How Is His Answer Dishonest?”

He either doesn’t know or believes it’s an important issue that needs dealt with.

Can’t be both.

[corbettkroehler]

102. Let's Cut To The Chase - It's A Non-Issue According To Whom?

It doesn't matter what you and I believe, emphasis on "believe."

Does belief equal fact? For some voters, you bet it does!

The tactical reality is simple and as reliable as the dawn: Sanders is in this to win the White House. In order to do that, he needs to attract Obama voters who flipped to tRump. Some of them are convinced, because they vote according to how their church orders them, that this is an issue, a big one. In other words, since Sanders' job is to attract as many voters as possible without lying, he needs to tackle it.

That approach is the opposite of dishonesty. If all politics is local, then he needs to address the voters where they reside, even if their position is ridiculous. He can't guide them to the factual truth if they shut him out.

[Nuggets]

112. Show me the masses of women seeking abortion due to not wanting a certain sex.

Nothing you’ve said changes Bernie’s dueling answers and your erroneous claim that he’s honest.

And now you’re trying to say:
Not only did he know about this “important “ issue, he was just saying it was an important issue because he knew it was just a rw talking point, and he’d have to use this on campaigns in areas where people believe that in order to get them to see the truth, and then vote for him. BUT he was honest in saying he didn’t know.



Please continue, this is a riot!

[ehrnst]

125. Indeed. (nt)

[ehrnst]

95. Are you saying that he believes the RW talking points that he repeated?

Have you heard him say that gender selective abortion is a non-issue?

And I thought that you couldn't go further than "Bernie is reaching out to voters on the other side" to spin this as anything other than a horrible gaffe.

[corbettkroehler]

99. Do You Prefer His Honesty More Or His Political Courage?

For me, it's a toss-up.

[ehrnst]

101. Red herring... Nice try at evasion.

It seems that one is running out of ways to post a response in this thread that doesn't get oneself into a deeper hole.

[corbettkroehler]

103. Evading Nothing (But Awaiting An Answer) n/t

[ehrnst]

107. Answer to your red herring? (nt)

[corbettkroehler]

104. My Shovel Struck The Truth 500 Feet Of Sod Ago (n/t)

[ehrnst]

108. Truth...

to you, is apparently is defined by what one particular Senator utters.

The last, but certainly not least, of the Four Horsemen is stonewalling. Stonewalling is, well, what it sounds like. In a discussion or argument, the listener withdraws from the interaction, shutting down and closing themselves off from the speaker because they are feeling overwhelmed or physiologically flooded.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-stonewalling/

[ehrnst]

154. Your shovel struck something else right at the start.

[ehrnst]

122. No, you evaded and tried several tactics to spin this

gaffe in sometimes contradictory terms.

He reinforced the misconception. He was trying to evade admitting that he had no answer, so he tried to appear that he did.

In doing so, he showed lack of understanding or knowlege of a basic anti-choice trope concerning legislation. That is what he is being criticized for.

Not unlike the gaffes in response to white supremacy questions at the She the People forum.

[ehrnst]

41. If he had stopped there, it would have been less bad.

He went on to support the erroneous idea that "it's a concern" when it's not.

It's an anti-choice trope. Had Bernie said, "No, that's a solution looking for a problem, because that's not a problem in this country," that would have been a good response.'

He tried to answer a question that the didn't know the answer to.

[corbettkroehler]

49. Honest And Inartful - That's A Fair Characterization (n/t)

[ehrnst]

54. Not what I said. He tried to answer a question he clearly didn't know the answer to

and wound up by agreeing with the interviewer that a RW fallacy was a legitimate "concern."

[corbettkroehler]

78. It's Illegitimate Only As Far As The Ballot Box

All politics is local. Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

A small but significant portion of red state voters could be wooed back to Trump with dog whistle issues like gender selective abortion. The whole country is better off with our candidates trying to address the issue now, even if, in so doing, the candidate made an error which could be addressed in future responses.

[ehrnst]

105. Still trying to make this bad gaffe into some kind of political genius move.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

Bernie agreed with and therefore perpetuated a lie that the anti-choicers promote, in an attempt to avoid not giving an answer to the interviewer. That's not in the eye of the beholder

A small but significant portion of red state voters could be wooed back to Trump with dog whistle issues like gender selective abortion.

So you think that our candidates should therefore agree with Trump on other "dog whistle issues" based in lies as well?

What if the interviewer of any other Democratic POTUS candidate had said "What about the problem of ISIS members sneaking in with the immigrants at the border? How would you deal with that in the law?”

And he said:

“I don’t know how, at this particular point, I would deal with it, but that is an issue that we really have got to deal with."

Would you be bending over backwards to defend it like you are doing Senator Sanders:

"The whole country is better off with our candidates trying to address the issue now, even if, in so doing, the candidate made an error which could be addressed in future responses."

[corbettkroehler]

110. Per Merriam-Weber...

a top definition of "politics" is "the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy."

http://merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politics

Last attempt:

Enough voters think that gender selective abortion is an issue that Check Todd's producers approved of his asking about it. We may disagree to our bones with the legitimacy of the question but that is not the point.

The bottom line is this: we have 2 choices for dealing with this stripe of voter:

a) do our best to lure them to factual conclusions; or

b) wait for them to die, at which point they no longer could vote, and HOPE that they didn't pollute the mind of their offspring with the stupid garbage.

I prefer political courage, which we know from experience to be the correct approach in the general election.

Sanders will be happy to consider Warren for running mate. Perhaps by then, you will come to grips with the simple reality that Bernie's only mistake with in being unprepared, not for making a clumsy attempt to deal with the question. After all, red state voters watch Meet The Press, too.

[ehrnst]

115. Still tap dancing around the actual truth:

The bottom line is this: Sanders didn't know how to answer this question, tried to, and stepped in it. Badly. In fact he perpetuated a RW fallacy.

Sanders will be happy to consider Warren for running mate.

What does that have to do with his gaffe?

Perhaps by then, you will come to grips with the simple reality that Bernie's only mistake with in being unprepared, not for making a clumsy attempt to deal with the question.

Perhaps you will eventually come to grips with the fact that this mistake revealed that he didn't know a basic RW anti-choice trope. And now you're put the car in reverse again... back from "it's his strategy to reach flippable Trump voters on this issue."

I prefer political courage, which we know from experience to be the correct approach in the general election.

The lack of courage to admit that one isn't ready to answer a question, leading a huge gaffe is "political courage?" One you would TOTALLY praise as such in any other candidate.....

[corbettkroehler]

111. Genius? Surely Not. Courageous? Most Definitely! (n/t)

My final word on the subject.

[ehrnst]

116. Courageous - not wanting to admit that he couldn't answer the question

then in the attempt, perpetuating a RW trope about women?

Final word?

The last, but certainly not least, of the Four Horsemen is stonewalling. Stonewalling is, well, what it sounds like. In a discussion or argument, the listener withdraws from the interaction, shutting down and closing themselves off from the speaker because they are feeling overwhelmed or physiologically flooded.

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-stonewalling/

[mcar]

135. Truth is truth

It is not "in the eye of the beholder."

Do you think those crazies who believe that HRC was running a sex trafficking ring out of a DC pizza parlor were truthful? How about anti-vaxxers? I could go on.

Those are lies that some choose to believe. Not truth that they behold.

[ehrnst]

156. +1000. (nt)

[LanternWaste]

168. Yeah, his response was as insightful and substantive as "...hanging out on street corners."

That said, I really dig the creative ways you guys have in not merely giving a him free pass, but the colorful and creative pretense in claiming another of his "d'oh!" moments is actually some rare form of genius.

[Politicub]

72. "Stepped in a steaming pile of shit" is how I would characterize his answer.

It would have been easy for Sanders to turn the tables on Todd and challenge him about why he was asking such a stupid question.

[corbettkroehler]

80. I Concur - That's Part Of My Definition Of "Inartful"

Human error can be difficult to accept. Our candidates are not robots.

[ehrnst]

96. You have not acknowledged error on his part yet.

Human error on the part of their candidate can be difficult to accept for some supporters of some candidates.

If by "inartful" you mean he tried to answer a question he didn't know the answer to, and wound up with a major gaffe that indicates a lack of basic knowledge of the issue being discussed - anti-abortion legislation - then yes, it was VERY 'inartful."

[corbettkroehler]

97. Nor Will I - Clumsiness Is Not Error

it is clumsiness. Hurl as many facts as you want at them; a certain number of right-wingers see gender selective abortion as an issue. I know this for sure because they exist in my family. I have jousted with them verbally and left bloodied without landing a single bruise on them.

Bernie has been criticized for his perceived inability to attract tRump voters. By attempting to tackle this thorny issue, although poorly, he let us peek inside his strategy for the general election.

[ehrnst]

113. So, now, you're back on "this is Bernie reaching out to swing voters"

as opposed to it being "inartful" and a failure of "media coaching."

Hurl as many facts as you want at them; a certain number of right-wingers see gender selective abortion as an issue. I know this for sure because they exist in my family. I have jousted with them verbally and left bloodied without landing a single bruise on them.

This wasn't your family. It was an interview with a POTUS candidate who tried to answer a question he clearly had no idea about, and wound up reinforcing some of the hateful, misogyinistic RW tropes about women. Are you seriously saying that's the only alternative to "jousting" with them, because YOU wound up 'bloodied?" What about those who aren't on the other side of this? Are we supposed to stand by and ignore that?

By attempting to tackle this thorny issue, although poorly, he let us peek inside his strategy for the general election.

You are still trying to spin inadvertently reinforcing RW fallacies, in a clumsy attempt to sound like he knew something that he didn't as "strategy."

Seriously?

[R B Garr]

119. Thank you for your posts in this thread.

Great work.

[ehrnst]

124. It's an issue that I care mightily about. I just wish that more candidates did as well. (nt)

[Fresh_Start]

163. Saying I don't know is not proof of honesty

because there is more than one "i don't know"

contrast,
I have no knowledge of this topic, " I don't know"
versus
I don't want to answer because it might not give me the result I want, "I don't know".

[Autumn]

167. Please highlight where he claimed it was an "important issue" that needed dealt with.

Because I don't see that. As a woman, I'm also not aware that abortion based on the sex of a child is a thing here in our country. What Bernie said in that interview is

Look, I believe what they did in Alabama is unbelievable. Other states are doing it. The idea that women in this country should not be able to control their own bodies is beyond belief. They have that constitutional right. So if you're asking me, would I ever appoint a Supreme Court justice who does not believe in defending Roe versus Wade, who does not believe that a woman has the right to control her own body, I will never do that.

I think that that is a decision that is being -- that should be made by the woman and her physician. And I think many of, you know, what people are doing, sadly, is creating a political issue out of a medical issue. So the decision about -- women should be able to control their own body. And those decisions are made by a doctor and the woman.

[Politicub]

25. These laws rise to more than a mere "issue". They were put in place to

strip freedom from women. The laws make the womb the jurisdiction of the state, in the case of Alabama. These non-issue questions are from right wing talking points.

I don’t doubt Bernie being pro choice. What I don’t understand is why he wasn’t more forceful in the defense of women’s rights. This was the time to speak truth to power. And he didn’t.

“Do something about it,” indeed.

Bernie would be wise to learn from Amy Klobuchar and how she responded to the Fox News interviewer this morning.

[Nuggets]

38. +1

[ehrnst]

67. A "solution looking for a problem." (nt)

[ehrnst]

39. This isn't about media coaching, it's about understanding reproductive rights.

And it's not the "I don't know" part that is the problem. If he had stopped there, then that would have been the most honest answer.

It's the part where he says "...that is an issue that we really have got to deal with" that's the issue. What we saw there was a politician trying to give an answer when he didn't know what the answer was.

You really think that "...that is an issue that we really have got to deal with?"

No, banning "abortions for sex selection" is a solution in search of a problem. If you want to defend it as an issue, you are in less than desirable company.

While nominally aimed at combating gender and racial discrimination, U.S. bans on sex- and race-selective abortions send the message that women, and especially women of color, cannot be trusted to make their own medical decisions. They place women’s motivations for having an abortion under suspicion, thereby opening the door to discrimination toward and racial profiling of women of color and immigrant women. In particular, proponents of sex-selective abortion bans cite limited and inconclusive evidence that sex selection is practiced among some Asian communities in the United States, and proponents of race-selection bans erroneously claim that black women are targeted by abortion providers. Rather than protecting these communities, the laws perpetuate harmful stereotypes and put women at risk by making abortion less accessible. By forcing providers to scrutinize and second-guess women’s reasons for seeking an abortion, the bans discourage honest, confidential conversations and interfere in the provider-patient relationship. As a result, patients may withhold information or be dissuaded from seeking care from providers altogether.

https://www.guttmacher.org/evidence-you-can-use/banning-abortions-cases-race-or-sex-selection-or-fetal-anomaly

[corbettkroehler]

51. Glance At The Responses To This Thread And You'll See It's Surely A Concern For Some People

If it's anything, D.U. is an insightful peek into the spectrum of opinions within the DNC. Sanders tried to thread the needle. If I were in his shoes, reading the responses here, I would have set a similar goal (and kicked myself that my response was clumsy at best).

[ehrnst]

56. He didn't thread any needle. He reinforced a right wing anti-choice fallacy by agreeing with

the interviewer that a RW fallacy was a real concern, instead of saying that it is a 'solution looking for a problem."

[Demsrule86]

147. It is away to prevent abortion so it qualifies. The reason Sanders will not be the nominee is

partly because his tone deaf statements on social justice.

[Cha]

174. Oh please.. ".. more coaching.."

BS didn't know that this was a bogus rw talking point.

[stuffmatters]

12. What a nasty, slimy, anti Women POS Todd is for asking this question.

Bludgeoning ANY pro choice candidate with this rightwing loony gotcha question is just inexcusable. I'm calling NBC to complain about Todd now.

[corbettkroehler]

28. Go, Get 'Em! (n/t)

[Nuggets]

40. If Bernie was up to snuff he would have

known this was right wing garbage. He’s a career politician for crying out loud.
If he can’t see through this simple rw tactics how could he possibly be s good President? They’ll be eating his lunch!

[stuffmatters]

131. This is not about Bernie. NBC should block Todd from interviewing ANY of our candidates.

Chuck Todd's question was outrageous, shocking, despicable, frankly unimaginable from a MSM journalist, even the ever lazy, reprehensible "both siderist Todd. . I am leaning towards another candidate, but I sure am not going to make anti Bernie hay out of this instead of calling NBC & shutting down this misogynist shit stat.

[LibFarmer]

149. Eating his lunch would only be the beginning

It may end up with a wedgie.

[Arkansas Granny]

15. Are gender selective abortions really a big concern?

As I understand it, the earliest gender of a fetus can be determined is at 18-20 weeks gestation. Aren't there already restrictions on abortions at that stage of pregnancy?

I haven't been pregnant for several decades and haven't really kept up with all the details.

[mopinko]

22. it can be known very early w amnio.

i think they now have a less invasive way to sample the dna of a fetus, but that does give you the sex.
they do it pretty early for older moms.

[Nuggets]

42. Where are all the women who are trying to

abort babies due to his/her sex?

How large is this problem? Enquiring minds want to know!

[ehrnst]

68. Sex selective abortions are not an "issue" though. (nt)

[ehrnst]

44. No, it is not a concern at all, except among the anti-choice crowd.

Those bans are a solution looking for a problem.

While nominally aimed at combating gender and racial discrimination, U.S. bans on sex- and race-selective abortions send the message that women, and especially women of color, cannot be trusted to make their own medical decisions.3 They place women’s motivations for having an abortion under suspicion, thereby opening the door to discrimination toward and racial profiling of women of color and immigrant women. In particular, proponents of sex-selective abortion bans cite limited and inconclusive evidence that sex selection is practiced among some Asian communities in the United States, and proponents of race-selection bans erroneously claim that black women are targeted by abortion providers. Rather than protecting these communities, the laws perpetuate harmful stereotypes and put women at risk by making abortion less accessible. By forcing providers to scrutinize and second-guess women’s reasons for seeking an abortion, the bans discourage honest, confidential conversations and interfere in the provider-patient relationship. As a result, patients may withhold information or be dissuaded from seeking care from providers altogether.

https://www.guttmacher.org/evidence-you-can-use/banning-abortions-cases-race-or-sex-selection-or-fetal-anomaly

[greatauntoftriplets]

81. It was used extensively in China back when the government mandated only one child.

I've never heard of it used here.

[ehrnst]

127. The vast majority of abortions in the US are done before any sort of test

that could reveal gender is done.

This is an anti-choice fallacy. They propose legislation "banning sex or race selective abortions" as a solution looking for a problem, as a way to imply that it's an issue or "a concern" here. Like push polling.

That was the correct answer to that reporters' question.

[Mr.Bill]

16. Correct answer is

"There is no law requiring a woman to give a reason for having an abortion and I would veto any such law".

[Nuggets]

43. Yeah!

[stuffmatters]

132. Yes, plus "abortion has been legal for nearly 50 years, why would you even ask this?"

[NurseJackie]

20. Are you fucking kidding me???

This is just another reason (among many) why I could never support him. His supporters must be humiliated for him right now.

He's not going to get the AA and POC voters, he's going to lose the women voters (and people who care about this).

He's doing WORSE now than he did the last time her tried and lost.

[Nuggets]

23. Lol

Bernie’s going to get busy looking into solving this this non existent abortion issue right away!

[George II]

36. He was as unprepared for this as he was for the She The People interview.

[NurseJackie]

46. Unprepared. Unqualified.

I have higher expectations from anyone who wants to be the Leader of the Free World.

[ehrnst]

60. He showed more respect to this interviewer. (nt)

[George II]

69. Yes, Chuck Todd is a white man.

[comradebillyboy]

140. He's pretty nasty to women who interview him.

[NurseJackie]

172. I've noticed that too. He has little patience with women interviewers/reporters...

I've noticed that too. He has little patience with women interviewers/reporters, and even when seated with women panelists, he shows very little respect or courtesy. I've seen the videos of the very rude gesticulations that are in-your-face and an invasion-of-personal-space and even when corrected and called out on it, he continues defiantly.

I've always believed that BS simply doesn't have the demeanor or patience to be our nation's leader. We need someone who is respectful of everyone and who knows how to listen. Those are the qualities that are important to me.

[comradebillyboy]

173. ++++++++

[LibFarmer]

150. This was elementary

Someone running for dog catcher could have answered it with finesse and savoir faire to address it.

[revmclaren]

55. When members of the Media are more knowledgeable

on woman's issues and reproductive rights than the candidate, there is a HUGE problem.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[NurseJackie]

61. Why is he even running? Yes... it's definitely a HUGE problem, and...

Why is he even running? Yes... it's definitely a HUGE problem, and... you've hit the nail squarely on the head. Anyone who wants to lead our nations (and be the Leader of the Free World) needs to be more informed and better prepared. This was NOT one of those "gotcha" questions. This is IN THE FUCKING NEWS right now... this is an URGENT MATTER that I expect every candidate to be aware of and to be prepared to respond to.

He's totally lost the Women's vote and the POC vote and the AA vote. He needs to just withdraw now and go back to Vermont.

[ehrnst]

24. He had no idea about this, did he? It's not a 'concern' for anyone but pro-forced birthers.

[NurseJackie]

27. This disqualifies him. Seriously. He should just withdraw now.

Unbelievable.

[ehrnst]

45. "In particular, proponents of sex-selective abortion bans cite limited and inconclusive evidence

that sex selection is practiced among some Asian communities in the United States, and proponents of race-selection bans erroneously claim that black women are targeted by abortion providers."

https://www.guttmacher.org/evidence-you-can-use/banning-abortions-cases-race-or-sex-selection-or-fetal-anomaly

It's right wing bullshit, not a valid "concern," it's a solution looking for a problem.

[NYMinute]

47. But ... but ...

once we heavily tax the millionaires - umm strike that -- billionaires and corporations and eliminate income inequality, no one will need an abortion!!

[NurseJackie]

73. It's moments like this that illustrate to me how out-of-his-league he really is....

... and how ill-prepared he is to be the Leader of the Free World. He's memorized three stump speeches and a half-dozen other things that he feels comfortable talking about (even though he has ZERO plans to implement them). Still... this just helps to show why it is that I can never support him.

It's funny and sad at the same time. Mostly sad though.

[NYMinute]

123. All roads lead to Rome ... I mean ... income inequality nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

79. This is the topic of the week.

How could he not be prepared to answer a question like that?

[NurseJackie]

89. I know, right! It's crazy! This tells me that he's unqualified for the job.

How could he not be prepared to answer a question like that?

I know, right! It's crazy! This tells me that he's unqualified for the job. It shows me that he's either oblivious to what's going on around him... or he just doesn't care.

[MasonDreams]

87. Is there any doubt that Bernie would support a woman's right to choose?

A convoluted gotcha hypothetical question, So he didn't answer? I am sure that I may be missing something here. I am a male, it's really none of my business. Being pro-choice IS being against restrictions to a woman's right to choose.
All I know is we need a bigger Supreme Court, one that is not 2/3 Catholic. Oh no, I am just digging deeper. I'll shut up now.

[NurseJackie]

91. There's absolutely NOTHING that's "gotcha" about that. Nothing!

He wasn't prepared.

[NYC Liberal]

100. I know someone else who cried "gotcha question!" everytime they were unprepared:

"Gotcha" questions are only a problem if you're unprepared, ill-informed, and can't think on your feet. I never heard HRC whining about them.

[MasonDreams]

130. Bernie already said he will vote for the nominee of the party

However, are we arguing about a stacked SCOTUS that is bringing us this women torturing nightmare? Are we solidly opposed to starting the next 3 or 4 wars of aggresssion?
The absolute worst problem WE face is a third party that gives the fascist a second term.
Everybody is scared, how we treat each other going foward is the key.Love is the answer.
Especially now. Stronger together, ok. Hate can't drive out hate. Fear itself that's what I'm afraid of. Bernie may not be the man for the job, but if you run to H Kissinger for advice, you're going to make me angry.

[ehrnst]

181. Who is "running to H Kissinger for advice?"

Sarah Palin?

[MasonDreams]

184. Hillary

Right after she won the nomination in 2016. If she hadn't immediately and publicly slid right, and snubbed Sanders, she could have had the landslide victory that we thought would happen. I was just stunned. The fact that anyone thought that was a smart move, just blew my mind. Fox & right wing radio etc. demonized Hillary for 20years. The rebukes were thoroughly brainwashed with disinformation against Hillary. They were filled with hate. I only took 1 course in political science. I heard less than 30min of fox or limbaugh in 30sec slices in 10 years. I knew they would crawl over hot coals to vote against her. How, on God's Allah's & Buddha's green earth did the professionals with all their degrees, experience, research and analysis NOT KNOW? It is as if they tried to convert evangelicals to a mystic form of islam. Hillary was Heroic standing against the vast RWing conspiracy. Strong, smart, brilliant accually, for 11 hrs. straight.on Bengahzi. But she wasn't going to win any RWing votes. Know your enemy, I think Warren can win and I'm not confident Biden can. For what it is worth.

[MasonDreams]

117. Ok, "gotcha" was clearly wrong.

[NurseJackie]

129. Thank you.

[ehrnst]

98. It was only a 'gotcha' question for someone that didn't know the first thing

about anti-choice legislation.

Which would not be such an issue if one didn't claim the mantle of the most "feminist" and "pro-choice" candidate.

A convoluted gotcha hypothetical question, So he didn't answer?

He did give an answer - he agreed that this RW talking point was real and not fallacious.

Here's another example: What if the interviewer had said "What about the problem of ISIS members sneaking in with the immigrants at the border? How would you deal with that in the law?”

And he said:

“I don’t know how, at this particular point, I would deal with it, but that is an issue that we really have got to deal with."

Would you be as supportive?

He could have answered, "Those are solutions looking for a problem. Those restrictions are not based on any problem here in the US, and are, like "racial selective" abortion restrictions more about perpetuating false ideas about women's reproductive choices."

[Me.]

109. In Other Words

I could care less

[tymorial]

126. Reading the Biden Sanders posts is like watching Tennis

[mcar]

136. By comparison, here's how 2 other candidates answered similar questions today

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287126521

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287125619

[George Eliot]

137. He told the truth just like he always does. What more can you ask?

If this means he won't make a good leader, I beg to differ. I'm not voting for his stand on abortion by sex. Are you?

[Tiggeroshii]

153. +1000

[Blue_true]

139. Bernie has done such a thing over and over.

He makes pretty impressive pronouncements, but when he is asked about the in-the-weeds details of policy to bring about those things he has no answer or is very vague.

[George II]

143. He'll wait for a bill to be introduced, then he'll propose an amendment....

[Blue_true]

145. Yep. nt

[George Eliot]

169. Which has made him one of most successful legislators. What's wrong with that?

[betsuni]

141. Maybe he's been a little bit busy lately and forgot this is the United States.

That's not a thing here.

[ecstatic]

142. When there's no way to pivot to his medicare for all stump speech,

he has no idea of what to say. For me, that's unacceptable. We deserve a prepared, intelligent, thoughtful and capable president.

[LibFarmer]

151. This will go down in history

as Chuck Todd-Bernie Sanders moment .... exactly like Katie Couric-Sarah Palin moment.

At least Sarah was not running for POTUS - only a running mate.

[Tiggeroshii]

152. ...

[WhiskeyGrinder]

159. His lack of interest in preparing for the race indicates, to me, breathtaking arrogance.

And this is his second time around!

[NurseJackie]

160. Agreed. Sad to see that some here see it as a laughing matter...

Agreed. Sad to see that some here see it as a laughing matter and are just rofling all over themselves. I guess it's just a way to try and hide their humiliation that someone who wants to be the Democratic party's nominee was SO embarrassingly unprepared.

indicates, to me, breathtaking arrogance.

Breathtaking indeed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

161. And it's not that I'm looking for a glib candidate who has an answer for everything. A candidate

who stumbles on an abortion answer is a candidate I can't trust.

[NurseJackie]

162. I know! This is BASIC! This is FUNDAMENTAL! Sadly...

I know! This is BASIC! This is FUNDAMENTAL! Sadly, the BS campaign is like a broken record (for those of us who are old enough to know what a record is, and that a crack in the surface causes it to skip backward and repeat the same groove over and over.)

How did he get this far without realizing it? Has he forgotten it?

Was his HUMILIATING and DISASTROUS appearance at She the People not enough of a wake-up call for him, or for his campaign, or for his advisors?

Not only is this BASIC... it's CURRENTLY IN THE NEWS!! Of course it's going to be asked about!!!

stumbles on an abortion answer is a candidate I can't trust.

Neither can I. I'm totally with you on that point. That's completely unacceptable.

UN-prepared and UN-qualified. He really should drop out now and go back to Vermont.

[Gothmog]

165. Who is surprised by this?

[Blue_Tires]

166. In Bernie's defense (and I don't defend him often)

That question was a total setup based around a bullshit premise and Todd should presumably know better...

But on the flipside, this isn't Bernie's first rodeo so he has to expect these kinds of traps anyway and stay on message regardless.

[NastyRiffraff]

170. IT'S NOT A "CONCERN"

Normal women don't get abortions because they don't like a fetus's sex. Both Todd and Sanders went off the rails here and showed they know nothing about women, or abortion. It's not an "issue that we really have to deal with," Bernie. That issue doesn't exist. We don't need laws banning it; women don't get abortions for that reason.

What is wrong with those two?

[ehrnst]

182. Yep. I think it was a status quo politician sidestep around a topic he didn't know about.

"Yes, that's a concern," is a non-answer, a way to keep on talking, and make it sound as though you have given it thought, and agree with the person talking.

Like in the film Amadeus, where the emporer says, "Ah ha," when he doesn't know what the person is asking.

But anyone who had interest enough in the topic to answer would have known that saying "Yes, that's a concern" was the OPPOSITE of the right answer, and not simply a non-answer.

[Partisan D]

171. That's a reasonable response.

And I'm not a Sanders fan.

But what happened to "safe, legal, and rare?" Abortions for seemingly superficial reasons like the sex of a child? I think NARAL and Planned Parenthood may want to focus on Alabama and Missouri and Georgia right now...

[ehrnst]

176. There is nothing 'reasonable' about promoting a RW talking point that is fallacious

And I'm not a Sanders fan.

So? We're talking about what he said.

But what happened to "safe, legal, and rare?"

Nothing. Why do you ask?

I think NARAL and Planned Parenthood may want to focus on Alabama and Missouri and Georgia right now...

As opposed to...?

[Hortensis]

180. Only if he's prepared to wobble circumstantially, surely?

Sanders has been in congress for very close to 30 years now. What person in his situation wouldn't have felt a need to consider this issue? To discuss with other thoughtful legislators aware that some day they might need to vote on issues related to it? Has he never felt a moral imperative either direction?

Interestingly, Sanders is answering "I don't know" to a lot of questions on a lot of issues. His astonishing ignorance after 3 decades in office about how the federal government works suggests it's all too possible that he is being honest, but what would that say about him?

[NurseJackie]

183. "His astonishing ignorance after 3 decades in office" --- Well said. Thank you!

Interestingly, Sanders is answering "I don't know" to a lot of questions on a lot of issues. His astonishing ignorance after 3 decades in office about how the federal government works suggests it's all too possible that he is being honest, but what would that say about him?

Well said. Thank you! You're not the only one who's noticed these things... I've frequently thought about that very same thing. It's just that you put it into words and express it much better than I do.

[ehrnst]

187. Cue the talking point: "That's what makes him so refreshing!"

That's not 'lack of knowledge' he should have! That's just him being a regular person! Like someone that wasn't running for POTUS. He doesn't have pat 'establishment' answers on every tangental issue."

However if another candidate was to do that... "DEAL BREAKER! How can they call themselves a feminist?"

[Hortensis]

189. Yes. Dodge, but perhaps somewhat real also?

We know from him that he seemingly has a narrow range of things he really cares about, although he seems to be very passionate about those.

But on special editorial board interviews of two major newspapers last time, his bizarre level of ignorance became national news in itself. (Their transcripts are still online.) He literally was not able to explain how he could use government to implement his campaign promises for things he is presumably very passionate about, like healthcare. He didn’t even seem to know enough to give weak answers and said he would appoint people who would know how to do it.

And now this.

[ehrnst]

191. He's never really been asked to follow through with his grand promises.

Much like Jill Stein can promise solar everything, because she knows she'll never really need to figure out how.

For all his talk about "grassroots," his is the old, old school brand of authoritarian. top down management style - the guy at the top is the "idea man" and is never challenged. It's up to someone else to figure out how to deliver on his promises.

He relies on 'grassroots' support because those who work with him know him.

[Hortensis]

192. Yes. His record shows he essentially vegged for a quarter century,

and I suspect he must have expected to continue until he retired, telling himself his lack of achievement was because he was obstructed by a senate full of corrupt, corporatist minds. (No wonder he hates the Democrats'/Obama's ACA, tax increases on the wealthy, regulation of the financial industry, everything else.)

As bad times increased under conservative domination, Elizabeth Warren's call for strong solutions revealed previously unpolled, enthusiastic Democratic support for just that, but she didn't run. So he leaped into the wholly unexpected vacuum she left, but completely unready. And unable.

Absolutely to that last. It's a classic resort for people their colleagues and other professionals won't touch. They have to run as outsiders, almost always as populist "reformers" stirring up antagonism and claiming they'll clean up the corrupt system that won't support them. Sure they will. And sure wish I'd known that when I became old enough to vote.

[lapucelle]

190. Abortion as a means of sex selection is a racist, right wing talking point.

BS should know that.

Todd asked the senator from Vermont if he was “concerned about this idea that people may try to worry about the sex of a child, or essentially, are those types of restrictions on abortions something you’re open to?” Instead of swatting away the unfounded concern that people may be terminating pregnancies after finding out the sex of the fetus — or at the very least pleading ignorance on the matter — Sanders doubled down on Todd’s assertion, saying, “That, I mean, that’s a concern … that’s an issue that society has got to deal with, and it is of concern.”


Todd followed up by asking Sanders how he would “deal with that in the law?” Sanders replied, “I don’t know how, at this particular point. I would deal with it, but that is an issue we really have got to deal with.”

But, wait, it totally isn’t. So-called “sex-selective abortions” are a talking point that conservatives have adopted in recent years; it’s based in the unfounded claim that a cultural preference for sons is driving women to terminate their pregnancies as soon as the fetus is predicted to be female.

snip============================

As the National Asian Pacific American Women’s Forum points out, bans on sex-selective abortions are based in harmful myths about the Asian-American and Pacific Islander community. “Supporters of sex-selective abortion bans claim they are necessary because of Asians who migrate to the U.S. and bring ‘backward’ values with them,” reads a report from the organization. “This stereotype about the values of the AAPI community is not only ugly — it’s dangerous. These bans could lead to AAPI patients being singled out for special questioning and even being denied care.”

[Autumn]

185. Since when is sex-selective abortion a major issue in the United States?

I've brought it up to two pro-choice men. Neither knew it was something that is done. A chicken shit gotcha by a chicken shit pundit.

[ehrnst]

186. Did they then go on to tell you that "women having abortions for sex selection" is

Last edited Wed May 22, 2019, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

"an issue that society has got to deal with, and it is of concern....an issue that we really have got to deal with?"

There's the difference - women getting abortions for "sex selection" is not an issue, but there are anti-choice legislation and talking points that falsely purport that it's so widespread and out of control that needs regulating. The interviewer asked what he thought about women getting abortions for "sex selection." Bernie said "it was a concern." Which is a RW talking point.

And no, not every pro-choice individual is going to be familiar with laws that are intended to demonize women and misrepresent their ethical priorities. But a candidate for POTUS running as a 'strong feminist' would be expected to.

He was doing the politician shuffle away from a topic with what he assumed was a benign non-answer "I don't know what I would do, but that is concerning, and I am concerned about that concerning thing you're talking about," but wound up reinforcing a RW talking point.