Joe Biden is promising unity, consensus & healing. FDR, Harry S & LBJ had a different idea

[crazytown]

Last edited Wed May 22, 2019, 10:29 AM - Edit history (1)

'Give 'em hell!'

The last three Democratic Presidents played nice with Republicans. An earlier generation of Democrats did not. If 2020 does not put an end to fanatical Republican obstructionism, then the focus of the Administration has to be electing a Congress the President can work with, in 2022. That means a President who is prepared to get his or her hands dirty in an unashamedly partisan campaign against, what Harry S. denounced as the 'do nothing Congress'.

Joe Biden says: "If the American people want a president to add to our division, to lead with a clenched fist, closed hand and a hard heart, to demonize the opponents and spew hatred, they don't need me".

With respect, Democrats do not want the next President to be a mirror image of Trump. Almost all are looking for a man or woman who will bring dignity, civility and respect for the rule of law to the Oval Office. But many also want a President who will "just tell the truth about (Republicans), and they think it's Hell", if faced by more fanatical obstructionism.

Since the election of Reagan, it is the Republicans who have demanded tax cuts and tax breaks to the wealthiest and most powerful Americans. It is the Republicans whose mindless over the top deregulation set loose the wolves to prey upon the vulnerable. It is the Republicans who have blocked the big infrastructure spend that everyone knows is necessary to repair and rebuild America. It is the Republican who stymied adjustments to the minimum wage. It is the Republicans who have opposed every attempt to reform finance for students. It is the Republicans who have been tearing at the fabric of the safety net. It is the Republicans who want to ‘Starve the Beast’ in order to deny the Federal Government a role in assisting those who bear the burden of change. It is the Republicans who have crippled health care reform. And it is the Republicans who left economic disasters for Presidents Clinton and Obama then blamed them for widespread suffering.

We know where playing nice with with the GOP leads: to the Midterm catastrophes of 1994 and 2010. Unity, consensus & healing has a place - after Reaganism is defeated and cremated.

[TwilightZone]

1. The answer to the most divisive president in history...

isn't to insist that the next one should be just as divisive.

[crazytown]

3. The answer to the President of lies

is a President who tells the truth

[LibFarmer]

2. The lot of voters on both sides are sick of the polarization

The times are different now.

Biden knows the pulse of the electorate and the angry, confrontational sections of both parties will have a day of reckoning.

[crazytown]

4. What the American people want is a President who tells truth.

'Both sides are to blame' is a dead end.

[Cha]

5. I hope so! I'm sick

of those divisive tactics to build themselves up.

[crazytown]

8. Are you looking for appeasement?

Finding common ground with Mitch McConnell, the man whose agenda from day 1 was putting President Obama out of office?

[Celerity]

30. the angry, confrontational sections of both parties will have a day of reckoning.

What is going to be 'the day of reckoning' for people in our party who want to confront Trump the Rethugs, and confront social and economic injustice?

sounds pretty ominous as well as threatening

[ucrdem]

6. Did you hear any of his Pittsburg speech?

He lit into Trump and hit hard. His poll numbers jumped. I think he's on the right track. The unity slogan also seems to be working but it's just a slogan, like forward. And Biden will need GOP cooperation if he wants to get his judges confirmed, treaties signed, budgets passed and so on. Wingnuts can afford to wreck the place but they count on Dems to do the heavy lifting. That's what Barack did for eight thankless years and he got a lot accomplished including the ACA and that economic recovery we just passed through. That is what I'm hearing when I hear Biden talk about unity.

[MrsCoffee]

7. Oh the horror....

Sometimes I really can’t believe the stuff I read here.

[Cha]

14. I know..

gobsmacking.

[Vidal]

9. I think Biden is telling the truth

Somehow, your post seems to imply that Biden, by saying he doesn't want division, is not telling the truth.

Remember, he is trying to appeal to swing voters, and that's how you win presidential elections.

Do you think Biden is not telling the truth?

[crazytown]

11. Congress is broken

'both sides are to blame'? That is the MSM lie.

[Cha]

12. Exactly. Thank You, Vidal!

[marble falls]

10. I'm maybe leaning more to Biden than Mayor Pete - but I have absolutely no problem whatsoever ...

voting for them, but I agree with the OP. Biden has to not only win, but he has to fire up Democrats for all down ticket offices.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. None of those gentlemen were running to replace a divisive a president as Trump

Two were running for re-election and one was replacing a failed presidency.

[crazytown]

16. And none were facing a pervasive narrative of 'both sides are to blame'

while in the last administration the GOP put it's sights of getting President Obama out of office from Day 1.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Voters are sick of the polarization.

Some folks really want to bind the nation's wounds or at least try.

[Turin_C3PO]

18. The question is,

how do we do that when the Republicans refuse to govern in good faith? I would love for this country to be less divided but I simply don’t see how at this point when we have such awful Republicans in office.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. We do our thing. The party of Chump does their thing.

We don't have to be as hateful as them, albeit it from an opposite direction.

[Turin_C3PO]

22. True enough.

Although I don’t think any of our candidates, including grumpy Bernie, are hateful.

[Autumn]

24. The problem with that is just nothing gets done . And then we get more of that "polarization"

that "all those voters" are sick of. Got to have two parties and "friends" on the other side who have done nothing but obstruct for 12 years or so haven't shown me or any other person who has paid attention, they are willing to work with our party.

[crazytown]

20. I accept that.

Do you accept that many Democrats are sick of (what they regard as) appeasement? What do you think all those years of calling for Democrats to show some spine were about?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. The opposite of reducing polarization is appeasement?

[crazytown]

23. If one side is irrevocably committed to your defeat

from Day 1, how would you describe accommodating them? At least in the 1930s, the UK was rearming as it was playing for time.

[Crunchy Frog]

65. Yeah, let's bind that belly wound and ignore the massive internal hemorrhaging.

Out of sight, out of mind.

[Turin_C3PO]

15. I think Biden

understands how the Republicans operate. After all, he was there for 8 years with Obama and saw the bad faith politics that conservatives engaged in. I have to believe that his “Republican epiphany” talk is just rhetoric to unite this country.

[CentralMass]

25. I have no desire for our nominee to play nice with the GOP.

They are a criminal enterprise. Each new republican congress and administration is more corrupt then the last and inflict more damage to this country. Our candidates need to make this abundently clear.

[still_one]

26. So are you suggesting that the Democratic candidates should campaign on not trying to work with

Republican?

I sure haven’t heard one Democratic candidate say that

Do you believe that is the way to win the GE?

[crazytown]

27. I am in favor of any strategy that will deliver Dems the biggest win in 2020

including the Senate.

If Joe Biden is right, and a plea for unity is the way to go, then so be it. It does not mean that I have to like it, or agree that that is the best way to govern. The alternative, 'I will fight for you', doesn't have a good track record so far, but is viable IMO.

[still_one]

29. None of the Democratic candidates campaign that they will not try to work with the republicans

that is political suicide

This is also a strawman argument

[crazytown]

32. The opposite strategy served the GOP well in 2010 and 2014

Any Republican who says he or she will try to work with Democrats will get primaried out of existence as you well know.

[still_one]

35. False criteria comparison. The factors in those midterms were more due to

Democratic turnout in the midterms.

In 2018 the Democratic turnout was good, and the results demonstrated it.

[crazytown]

36. Bill Clinton, DNC Convention, 2012

Unfortunately the faction that now dominates the Republican Party doesn’t see it that way. They think government is always the enemy, they’re always right, and compromise is weakness. (Boos.) Just in the last couple of elections, they defeated two distinguished Republican senators because they dared to cooperate with Democrats on issues important to the future of the country, even national security. (Applause.)

They beat a Republican congressman with almost a hundred percent voting record on every conservative score, because he said he realized he did not have to hate the president to disagree with him. Boy, that was a nonstarter, and they threw him out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/05/us/politics/transcript-of-bill-clintons-speech-to-the-democratic-national-convention.html

My point stands.

[still_one]

38. I stand on my post, No Democrat has campaigned that they will NOT try and work with the republicans

You suggest following the republican model of polarization is the way to go, that is not what our candidates are saying

I guess that must leave you pretty disappointed

we will see what happens

[crazytown]

40. Compromise with those unable to compromise is appeasement.

[still_one]

41. We are not appeasing anyone. Speaker Pelosi has just demonstrated how it is done, and without

ambiguity.

Because someone talks about trying to work with someone is NOT appeasement, and your characterization that it is, is a misrepresentation of the situation

[Cha]

60. Thank you, still_one.

[Maven]

28. There can be no reconciliation without accountability.

That is what I find so bizarre about the "let's unite and move on" rhetoric. It requires the audience to suspend their disbelief. To pretend that what we have is just a "tone" problem, not a criminality problem. You cannot move forward as a society until bad actors are removed from power and held accountable for their actions.

We have been trying to "look forward" without doing the hard work of holding guilty parties accountable for too long. Now the guilty parties are in charge, again, and they are more emboldened than ever. And they have a mob of people behind them who are poisoned against Democrats on a daily basis by the right-wing propaganda machine. They have no intention of 'uniting' with us. They don't even respect 'uniters'. When will we learn?

[highplainsdem]

31. You can campaign on unity and still attack the people who are being divisive, and attack

specific actions and policies that are most divisive.

Biden is correct to leave an opening for those Republicans and GOP lawmakers who'll vote for him and work with him.

Truman might be best known for his "Give 'em hell" quote, though he corrected that himself:

I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell.

But he also said this:

It is understanding that gives us an ability to have peace. When we understand the other fellow's viewpoint, and he understands ours, then we can sit down and work out our differences.

In the same letter in September of 1946

https://www.trumanlibrary.org/publicpapers/index.php?pid=1758&st=&st1=

he wrote this:

There are two things in the world I want above everything else--peace in the world and unity at home. That's what I have been fighting for since I have been here. That's what President Roosevelt was fighting for while he was here.

[crazytown]

34. The quote you gave was Truman to the UN

It was also before the election of the 80th Congress, the Do Nothing Congress, I referenced in my OP where the GOP showed its hand. Anyone can pick and choose a quote from Harry S. I prefer this one:

Some people say I ought not to talk so much about the Republican 80th "do-nothing" Congress in this campaign. I will tell you why I will talk about it. If two-thirds of the people stay at home again on election day as they did in 1946, and if we get another Republican Congress like the 80th Congress, it will be controlled by the same men who controlled that 80th Congress--the Tabers and the Tafts, the Martins and the Hallecks--would be the bosses. The same men would be the bosses, the same as those who passed the Taft-Hartley Act, and passed the rich man's tax bill, and took Social Security away from a million workers. Do you want that kind of administration? I don't believe you do--I don't believe you do.

I don't believe you would be out here, interested in listening to my outline of what the Republicans are trying to do to you, if you intended to put them back in there.

When a bunch of Republican reactionaries are in control of the Congress, then the people get reactionary laws. The only way you can get the kind of government you need is by going to the polls and voting the straight Democratic ticket on November 2. Then you will get a Democratic Congress, and I will get a Congress that will work with me. Then we will get good housing at prices we can afford to pay; and repeal of that vicious Taft-Hartley Act; and more Social Security coverage; and prices that will be fair to everybody; and we can go on and keep sixty-one million people at work; we can have an income of more than $217 billion, and that income will be distributed so that the farmer, the workingman, the white collar worker, and the businessman get their fair share of that income.

That is what I stand for. That is what the Democratic party stands for.

http://www.speeches-usa.com/Transcripts/harry_truman-nothing.html

[highplainsdem]

37. So you'd want Biden to say what he's said in past elections:

https://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/article/20161105/NEWS/311059919

More than 500 people packed into the school auditorium to hear from local and state candidates, and from Gov. Tom Wolf, all promoting Democratic values while blasting Republican nominee Donald Trump’s platform, one that Biden said would add trillions of dollars to the deficit while benefiting only the wealthy.

“I know what built this country: It was middle class values. (Republicans) don’t believe in anything middle-out. They’re all into trickle down and that doesn’t work. The only thing that’s growing in this country is the (wealth) of the top 10 percent,” Biden said.

The crowd roared its approval when Biden spoke about closing some tax loopholes that could bring billions of dollars into the treasury and would help fund higher education for young Americans. For example, eliminating the “one-step-up” tax loophole would bring in about $17 billion, he said. The step-up loophole basically means a person can pay a lower tax rate on capital gains, or, in the event someone dies, their beneficiary likely would pay no tax at all on capital gains.

Biden lobbed a blistering attack on Trump, saying that he is unqualified to be president because of his lack of character and morality. He scoffed at Trump’s contention that global warming was a hoax created by the Chinese, and compared the Republican’s policy and ideology to that of George Wallace, segregationist and two-term governor of Alabama in the 1960s and 1970s.

-snip-

Biden stressed the importance of voting a straight Democratic ticket on Tuesday in order to continue President Barack Obama’s legacy.

Biden's both a fighter and in favor of unity. Like Truman.

[crazytown]

39. Look, I want Dems to win, and win big.

I also want want an end to 'the Reagan consensus'.

[Partisan D]

44. If it didn't work with Obama,

who wanted to work with the other side, it's not happening for 10-20 years. Centrism and calls for unity win. See: Carter, Clinton, Gore (popular vote), Obama, Hillary (popular vote).

[crazytown]

47. Reaganomics forever?

Buttigieg

We need to make sure ... that strategically as a party that we don't come to be viewed as the defenders of a system that is letting people down. And we wouldn't be here if the economic and political system hadn't failed people.

We can't just nibble around the edges and expect people to be happy with us. Now, I've got a slightly different account than my competitors do about how best to do it, but the fundamental lesson is that our economic and political system has been letting people down I would say for my entire lifetime.

And one of the reasons I believe that we're at this kind of tectonic moment, this once in an every half-century or so moment that really is a hinge point between eras in American history -- I mean, as big as the moment when the New Deal came about or the moment that I would argue we've been living through ever since when Reaganism kind of became ascendant in this country, that that's come to an end. We're at the dawn of something new. And it could be really enlightened and really fantastic. And it could also be really ugly. And a lot of that's going to depend on what happens now, which is why I believe as much as I care about replacing this president and winning this election, I think what's at stake right now is how to win not just an election, but an era.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1904/22/se.05.html

[ehrnst]

48. What is 'the Reagan consensus'? (nt)

[crazytown]

49. Neoliberal economics

From 'A tale of Two Cities'

President Reagan told us from the very beginning that he believed in a kind of social Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. "Government can't do everything," we were told, so it should settle for taking care of the strong and hope that economic ambition and charity will do the rest. Make the rich richer, and what falls from the table will be enough for the middle class and those who are trying desperately to work their way into the middle class.

You know, the Republicans called it "trickle-down" when Hoover tried it. Now they call it "supply side." But it's the same shining city for those relative few who are lucky enough to live in its good neighborhoods. But for the people who are excluded, for the people who are locked out, all they can do is stare from a distance at that city's glimmering towers.

It's an old story. It's as old as our history. The difference between Democrats and Republicans has always been measured in courage and confidence. The Republicans -- The Republicans believe that the wagon train will not make it to the frontier unless some of the old, some of the young, some of the weak are left behind by the side of the trail. "The strong" -- "The strong," they tell us, "will inherit the land."

We Democrats believe in something else. We democrats believe that we can make it all the way with the whole family intact, and we have more than once. Ever since Franklin Roosevelt lifted himself from his wheelchair to lift this nation from its knees -- wagon train after wagon train -- to new frontiers of education, housing, peace; the whole family aboard, constantly reaching out to extend and enlarge that family; lifting them up into the wagon on the way; blacks and Hispanics, and people of every ethnic group, and native Americans -- all those struggling to build their families and claim some small share of America. For nearly 50 years we carried them all to new levels of comfort, and security, and dignity, even affluence. And remember this, some of us in this room today are here only because this nation had that kind of confidence. And it would be wrong to forget that.

https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mariocuomo1984dnc.htm

The rust belt, those with manual skills, those lacking bargaining power, and those outside. unions, the 90% who have not had a real wage rise since the early 70s, all those left to fend for themselves under the Reagan mantra that a growing market economy will fix it, without government intervention - that must end. A rising tide will not float anchored to the sea floor.

[ehrnst]

50. You're saying that Democrats are perpetuating Reagan's economic policies?

How so? We battle tooth and nail with the GOP on this.

[crazytown]

53. No, I am saying some would prefer not to rock the boat

(From earlier in this thread: "Centrism and calls for unity win. See: Carter, Clinton, Gore (popular vote), Obama, Hillary (popular vote)".

FWIW I don't regard Bill Clinton as a centrist. After 1994, President Clinton was faced with a fanatically hostile House. There is even less common ground today.

[ehrnst]

54. Rock what "boat" then, if not Reagan economics?

Sincerely, I'm not understanding what you are referring to.

[crazytown]

57. I think we are talking at cross purposes.

This is an OP expressing skepticism of Joe Biden's message of unity, consensus and healing as a formula for governing. Those who enjoy the fruits of Reagan's economics will not surrender them meekly.

[ehrnst]

58. OK... who then are "enjoying the fruits of Reagan's economics?"

[crazytown]

59. Oh come on

We could start with Trump’s tax changes and gutting of regulation, then work backwards.

[ehrnst]

66. Come on...That's not a "who" that's a what.

Either you can't articulate what you mean, or you're avoiding it.

[crazytown]

67. Are you trolling me?

Last edited Thu May 23, 2019, 10:26 AM - Edit history (1)

I began this OP with

"Since the election of Reagan, it is the Republicans who have demanded tax cuts and tax breaks to the wealthiest and most powerful Americans. It is the Republicans whose mindless over the top deregulation set loose the wolves to prey upon the vulnerable. It is the Republicans who have blocked the big infrastructure spend that everyone knows is necessary to repair and rebuild America. It is the Republican who stymied adjustments to the minimum wage. It is the Republicans who have opposed every attempt to reform finance for students. It is the Republicans who have been tearing at the fabric of the safety net. It is the Republicans who want to ‘Starve the Beast’ in order to deny the Federal Government a role in assisting those who bear the burden of change."

Are there Democrats that support that agenda? Very few. Are there Democrats who would tinker with it, rather than confront it head on? Yes - as a matter of politics. What sort of tinkering - raising the top rate of income tax from 35% to 39.6 for example. Who is offering an alternative. Gee that's a difficult one. Maybe a plain spoken daughter of the plains who turned up at Kermit WV a couple of weeks ago.

[ehrnst]

68. No, I am not trolling you. (nt)

[Tiggeroshii]

33. K&R

The entire GOP agenda must be rejected and reversed -including the last forty years of Republican policy and horrendous supply side bullshit.

[The Mouth]

42. My fellow American Citizens are NOT my enemies

no matter WHO they vote/voted for. My enemies are those who would consider than ANYONE doesn't have the right to vote for WHOMEVER they wish to and does not operate on the assumption that any citizen who votes or otherwise participates is at their heart doing what they think best. Yeah, there are plenty of exceptions to this, but quite honestly anyone on either side who demonizes another American citizen because of their politics - no matter how horrendous - is as much or more a part of the problem as the person they are attacking.

Everyone has a right to their view and vote, no matter who disagrees with it, finds it fascistic, racist, homophobic, treasonous, communistic, theocratic, anti-Christian or any other such. the second you de-legitimize anyone, no matter how ignorant or generally fucked-up their mental process you are not contributing to this country, you are tearing it down.

I'll defend to the death the right of ANYONE to express in safety ANY viewpoint.

what I *WANT* is a progressive, egalitarian, diverse, inclusive, non-racist society of peace and prosperity. I will bring that about by building up and using empathy, not screaming insults at someone no matter HOW vile I personally find their beliefs.

I am not alone.

[Honeycombe8]

63. That's not even what the OP said. He's talking about the extremists in Congress. Devin Nunes.

McConnell. These guys are NOT the Republicans of the Grand Old Party. They are Trump loyalists who have supported crimes, treating children inhumanely, shutting down the government, the President supporting Putin over allies, and a long list of aberrant behavior we are all familiar with.

They don't compromise or bend. They don't even speak to Supreme Court Justices nominated by our Party.

The only way to have unity with such people is to bend to their will. So it's better to just recognize the situation for what it is. Not what you want it to be.

[Partisan D]

43. You don't know FDR and LBJ very well.

They were all about unity and a national camaraderie. They had fights with Republicans, but that was a different era: liberalism was the dominant ideology. No more, for the last 40 years.

[crazytown]

45. FDR

" ...the first essential of doing a job well is to want to see the job done. Make no mistake about this: The Republican leadership today is not against the way we have done the job. The Republican leadership is against the job’s being done."

As Joe Biden himself says, 'This is not your grandparents' Republican Party'. The difference between today and earlier times is not prevailing ideology. The difference is that a Republican who is prepared to work with Democrats will be primaried out of existence.

[Uncle Joe]

46. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread crazytown.

[FreeBe]

51. We have turned the cheek too many times. I totally embrace his Catholic self.

As a woman and a Democratic voter all of my life, I am not turning my cheek no more.

That simple. He gets on board or I look elsewhere. They are threatening 11 yr old rape victims with a death penalty sentence if she does not deliver.

I am not turning my cheek to be slapped, again.

[markpkessinger]

52. ANyone who can look at what is currently going on . . .

. . . and conclude that our primary problem is anger and division, and not the radical extremism of the Republican party, is, frankly, part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[FreeBe]

55. I can't help but feel this also. Biden has been placed really well in the primary.

He is experienced and smart. I think he is open to listening. Maybe some he respects might be able to communicate with him that we the people have every right to be this angry. And if we are not this angry, what is wrong with us? Taking babies from parents and losing them in the system, caging them, allowing them to die, warrants anger.

[markpkessinger]

61. I agree . . .

. . . Not to mention, Biden seems to think we're dealing with the Republican party of his days in the Senate, a Republican party of Bob Dole or Alan Simpson. But that party is no more. One would think that eight years as Obama's VP would have disabused him of any notion that he can "reach across the aisle" to those folks. They don't want to be reached, and they aren't interested in compromise.

[FreeBe]

56. I am having a lot of fun with Warren.

She is the one that has surprised me the most. I respect her a lot more as time goes by. I think she is outdoing everyone. She wasn't my first pick. I am a strong establishment Democrat and trust our Democratic leaders, more, I respect them. So, I am good with a lot of our candidates. But, I am hearing a lot of enthusiasm for Warren by 18-25 yr old women. That is a fun age to listen to when they are politically engaged.

[pansypoo53219]

62. starts w/ the media that is still sniffing his dead ass for tax cuts.

[Honeycombe8]

64. I agree. A recognition of the reality of what the Repub Party has become is needed.

Not hiding our heads in the sand, pretending it's the same party from 20 years ago. It's not. It's been taken over by extremists who have no desire to have unity, except on the occasional bipartisan bill, like the budget.

Recognition of the reality of a situation is the first thing we need. We can't make much headway without it.