Joe Biden's a decent guy. The left should treat him decently

[TexasTowelie]

Imagine Joe Biden is the Democratic presidential nominee and during the general election campaign, he calls Vice President Mike Pence “a decent guy.”

How many votes could a graceful throw-away phrase about a Republican opponent and ideological foe yield on Election Day — for the Democratic ticket? Even if we agree Pence has done little in his public life to warrant the dictionary definition of decent — worthy, kind, obliging, generous — might it be worth it for Democrats to choke on principle and win those swing votes?

Biden’s strength lies in his potential appeal as a general election candidate. But first he has to get through a Democratic primary, which is shifting more sharply to the left with every news cycle. Right now, the party is being driven by the politics of newly elected US Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York and actress-turned-activist Cynthia Nixon. Whether they turn out to be saviors who help Democrats win the White House, or Thelma and Louise, who take the party over the cliff, is the great unknown. But with Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Kamala Harris in the back seat, the goal is to squeeze centrists like Biden off the 2020 road.

That’s why Biden swiftly backed down after offhandedly saying something semi-nice about Pence. While speaking in Omaha, Biden brought up Pence’s appearance at last month’s Munich Security Conference, when the vice president offered greetings from President Trump and elicited no applause from world leaders in the audience. In recounting the moment, Biden said that “a guy who’s a decent guy, our vice president . . . stood before this group of allies and leaders and said, ‘I’m here on behalf of President Trump,’ and there was dead silence. Dead silence.” With that, he was trying to bury the Trump administration, not praise it.

Read more: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/columns/2019/03/04/joe-biden-decent-guy-the-left-should-treat-him-decently/Eq829xmx6pctKErHzVWGeL/story.html

[shanny]

1. He is a decent guy

but not the right guy for the times. And I doubt that nostalgia for the Obama years will overcome that.

[zipplewrath]

2. Exactly

It's very possible that what he'd end up being is the "last gasp" of a generation instead of being the path into the future.

[workinclasszero]

17. That's exactly what he is IMO

A nice guy though, sure. He should retire after many years of public service with all the good will he has built up over the years.

But I'm afraid that some people in the democratic party that are clinging to power by their fingernails are going to push Joe into running and ruin all that good will in an instant.

He will not get a pass if he runs, nobody gets one.

It's time for new progressive leaders in the democratic party, times have changed.

[democratisphere]

26. 77 year old Sanders is a better choice than 76 year old Biden.

[Little Star]

47. +1

[workinclasszero]

49. Bernie may be 77 but he embodies and embraces the policies of the younger generations that

will be the leaders of the the Democratic party.

He has done so for years, decades even.

When it wasn't cool of popular with many in both party's.

Can Joe say the same. No he can't.

[democratisphere]

57. Joe Biden has been a Vice President for a Democratic President.

Sanders has been a runner up Candidate for President.

I'll go with the guy that has already had experience in the WH trenches.

[LakeArenal]

76. the losing runner up candidate...

Joe Biden is and will continue to be, the most qualified person running in this election cycle.

[democratisphere]

115. Absolutely.

No one is more qualified than Joe Biden.

[JudyM]

64. Bernie is the real deal, no doubt in my mind. And I can't forgive Biden for Anita Hill, that was big

and spoke volumes about his internal compass magnetizization by repuke hysteria.

[R B Garr]

67. Bernie has ongoing harassment claims about his

2016 campaign in the MeToo era. If Bernie is fine, so is Joe.

[emulatorloo]

79. Dunno to me Warren is a "realer deal" than Bernie.

I like Bernie but Warren has genuine accomplishments, great ideas, and the ability to write solid policy.

Of course YMMV, and of course i’ll enthusiastically support the eventual nominee.

[R B Garr]

66. Totally bogus, actually. Al Gore led on climate change when

it wasn’t cool and trendy, decades ago. Clinton picked Al Gore to lead on climate change decades ago.

Clinton actually got elected and began the national dialogue on Universal Health care on a national stage, not in obscurity. They took those political risks on the nation stage decades ago.

Clinton left office with a surplus after actually having raised taxes on the rich — decades ago.

I don’t know why we have to keep going through this with one man. That is why there is never-ending pushback. Good Democrats dont have to be discounted for these false dialogues.

Bernie’s actual record of accomplishments is not great. Joe is fine. He was a VP to a very popular ex-President.

[emulatorloo]

82. Bernie's got good ideas and he's named a couple posts offices

during his long successful career in Congress.

He is doing an excellent job for Vermont given how popular he is there.

He’ll make a big contribution to the conversation in Primary 2020

We have other candidates that have good ideas and can produce concrete policy proposals. I like Bernie and will support whoever is the nominee. We have a lot of good candidates to choose from, I probably won’t be able to decide until after a few debates.

[R B Garr]

48. Reality is that Sanders was rejected by voters in 2016

and largely by proxy in 2018 when his groups did not prevail in knocking off Feinstein and most of the others they targeted. The facts of actual election results don’t match the Sanders propaganda. Biden leads him in the polls, so the whole idea that everyone has to move aside for Sanders “clinging to power” (your words) is not supported.

[WeekiWater]

61. This is priceless. NT

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. Maybe TOO nice of a guy. We need someone like Bernie who can rip the Toadstool's fuckin' head off.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[emulatorloo]

92. Biden's good at getting under Trump's skin. Do you remember Biden dismantling Ryan

during VP debate 2012?

And of course the classic take down of Giuliani:

“And the irony is, Rudy Giuliani, probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency, is here talking about any of the people here. Rudy Giuliani... I mean, think about it! Rudy Giuliani. There’s only three things he mentions in a sentence — a noun, a verb, and 9/11. There’s nothing else! There’s nothing else! And I mean this sincerely. He’s genuinely not qualified to be president.”

Don’t underestimate Joe, he’s a master of sarcasm and he could definitely give Trump hell.

[PatrickforO]

32. Well, to our horror we might see powerful people in the party

promote Biden simply because they might not feel entirely comfortable with some of the younger, more progressive candidates.

That would be disastrous.

[DemocracyMouse]

41. And those so-called "centrist" Dems may intuitively agree with Pence

that LGBTQ Americans are 2nd class citizens and are not really worth worrying about.

That is, of course, immoral on the part of both Pence and the Democrats who kind of agree with him – or who downplay the significance of Pence's sickening prejudices. Many older Democrats still believe, deep down inside, the superstition that straight-people-are-the-real-people. (Some were even once hippies who should know better! They must have been a generation too late to dance at the Bowie, Queen, glam rock, Modanna and House Music parties).

This whole notion that such "centrist" rubish makes a candidate "effective" will be proven ridiculous – mark my words – when the so-called "leftist" Democrats move the country forward (thank Modanna, Queen and the Constitution) with a loving, big tent approach that respects all races, genders, religions and economic abilities (except the massively overpaid at the expense of everyone else).

❤️ Democracy Mouse

PS Plenty of older, Dylan-era Democrats are supportive of the LGBTQ community. Some even are in the advance guard and comprehending that we're all sexually unique.

[emulatorloo]

89. I guess you don't remember Biden getting so excited about same-sex marriage becoming legal

that he announced his support for same-sex marriage before Obama was ready to do the same.

https://www.politico.com/story/2012/05/obama-expected-to-speak-on-gay-marriage-076103

W.H.: Biden forced Obama's hand

By GLENN THRUSH and JENNIFER EPSTEIN 05/09/2012 11:03 AM EDT Updated 05/10/2012 07:52 AM EDT

For President Barack Obama and his team, the decision to back gay marriage came down to a choice between two unpalatable alternatives: Support it and brave the backlash in battleground states where the issue could be a liability — or keep silent and be accused by allies of gutlessness and putting politics over principle.

Administration officials said the president planned to announce his support before the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, N.C., this September. But they acknowledge that Vice President Joe Biden did, indeed, force their hand.

———

An article on Biden’s statement, where he forced Obama’s hand:

BREAKING: Joe Biden Endorses Same-Sex Marriage
MAY 6, 2012, 1:03 PM

https://thinkprogress.org/breaking-joe-biden-endorses-same-sex-marriage-4a0d0303e6e2/

Vice President Joe Biden has endorsed same-sex marriage, becoming the highest ranking American official to back marriage for gay and lesbian people. His comments signify a split within the Obama administration and may pave the way for President Obama — who says he supports civil unions and is still evolving on the matter — to also embrace equality.

——————-

Essentially your post is dishonest propaganda, smearing Biden as homophobic when he is nothing of the sort. Your vague smear of nameless ‘Centrists Democrats’ is just as disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

But i’m sure you’ll try to rationalize your egregious and shameless intellectual dishonesty, play victim, and do your best to get my post hidden.

But I’m telling the truth about what you’ve done here. Sick of this kind of lying toxicity. It has no place on DU.

[gateley]

85. You might not like it, but I doubt it would be 'disastrous'

I think any one of those running now would do a good job -- I'd be happy with any of them.

What WOULD be disastrous is if Trump gets elected again because we don't show up.

[PatrickforO]

86. True. I concede the point, and

I regret using the word 'horror' in the same breath as Biden. I might disagree with some of the decisions he would make, but there is no doubt in my mind Biden is loyal to this country, and no doubt he would take his oath and his office seriously.

[emulatorloo]

88. He'd also do the right thing for the American people, including the most vulnerable among us

All of our candidates would.

[emulatorloo]

87. Indeed. We cannot allow Trump to win again. None of our candidates would be 'disastrous'

But as you know, extreme hyperbole is the fuel that runs DU

[R B Garr]

5. Yet Biden is polling ahead of everyone which contradicts

your observation.

OTOH, Bernie lost in 2016, lost liberal California and New York. His candidates mostly failed in 2018, all indicating that he is the one wrong for the times.

Biden looks to be the beneficiary of the more things change, the more things stay the same phenomenon. People have seen enough of shrill populism and demagoguery and just want familiarity and stability. Too much was sacrificed for all the anti-Democrat claptrap, not only from Bernie.

[workinclasszero]

18. He's polling ahead because he is not running

When and if he jumps into the race, things will change.

Count on that.

[R B Garr]

50. It sounds like you are counting on the same attack machines

that helped lower Clinton’s numbers. . All the candidates will be attacked. Sanders was not even fairly vetted before, and that was a huge benefit to him obviously.

But none of the candidates is a former VP to a popular ex-president as Biden is, especially in this age of empty and hostile rhetoric about Democrats and our government. People look to be wanting stability in government.

[workinclasszero]

52. Vetting is what attacks against Bernie are called around here

Vetting is what Joe will get as well should he enter the race.

If it's good for one, it's good for all.

[R B Garr]

53. It wasn't good for all. That's the point. Hillary was attacked

by all sides. Bernie wasn’t. These kind of revisionist history sidebars do not match reality. The entire media are discussing how she was attacked and the fallout of criminal indictments while Bernie was never vetted.

[workinclasszero]

56. Riiiiight

Bernie was never vetted LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Joe Biden has many political skeletons hanging out in his closet.

He will be vetted and his popularity will diminish greatly afterwards if he throws his hat in the ring.

I still hope the doesn't subject himself to the rigors of the campaign trail.

He needs to retire with all the good feelings he has now from America.

[R B Garr]

59. Thanks for admitting that you are only expecting Biden

to be attacked and vetted, not Bernie, thereby hopefully lowering his numbers while Bernie gets another pass. It saves a lot of time that you outright admitted that.

Even current news and just common sense says that is unlikely to happen because Bernie does not have the advantage of attacking just one Democrat like he did with Hillary. The field is much larger and Bernie will lose even more credibility with vicious attacks on all of them.

Facts remain: Bernie was not vetted. When he based his attacks on criticizing the transparency of others but not being transparent himself, that is not being vetted.

[Cha]

105. HA! It's not Joe Biden who

"needs to retire".

Anybody who has paid attention knows BS hasn't been properly Vetted YET.

But, we plan to change all that. Let the Sun Light Shine!

I like what you said here..

Even current news and just common sense says that is unlikely to happen because Bernie does not have the advantage of attacking just one Democrat like he did with Hillary. The field is much larger and Bernie will lose even more credibility with vicious attacks on all of them.

So True.

[R B Garr]

109. Wasn't that quite a bogus suggestion?? Another Democrat

needs to go away, just like Hillary needed to go away.

Good to see you, Cha!

[LongtimeAZDem]

58. +∞

[JudyM]

65. Lol. Nicely parried, WCZ.

[emulatorloo]

81. Not really. Asking hard questions isn't an 'attack'. All of our candidates will answer hard

Questions if they want to be considered for the nomination

[emulatorloo]

80. Biden can take the heat. He's good at answering questions

as are most of the declared candidates. Presidents get asked hard questions, as do Presidential Candidates. I’m looking for a candidate who passes that test.

[pangaia]

23. Polling among DEMS, as I understand it, not the general electorate,

which includes repukes and indies and....

[still_one]

27. You're assessment is correct for the Democratic primary polls. Also, those believing that it is

just name recognition, or nostalgia, are letting their bias interfere, and lose objectivity.
It is not name recognition. People know who Joe Biden is.

Here is a recent South Carolina poll, a very red state:


South Carolina 2020 Poll: Biden leads Primary Field by Wide Margin; President Trump Popular with Bas
It appears Harris has some work to do in South Carolina, particularly within the African American community. Among African American Democratic primary voters Biden leads with 43% of the vote, Sanders captures 15% of this vote with Harris at 9% and Booker at 7%. On the issue of reparations for African Americans, 31% of respondents agree with the policy while 46% disagree. But, Professor Spencer Kimball says “this issue is not helping Harris with South Carolina Democratic primary voters; while 79% of them support reparations, they are breaking for Biden nearly 4:1.”


http://emersonpolling.com/

[pangaia]

28. Thanks. It seems pretty obvious to me... and you.

I like Kamala. BTW...

[still_one]

31. I like most of our nominees, but not everyone of them will be able to win a general elections

Our nominee must be able to win some red and purple states in the general election, and I believe Biden can do that

[R B Garr]

51. There is a Democratic primary first, though.

Any of the other Sanders polls were largely discredited as he benefitted from not being vetted while virtually everyone was attacking Hillary to get her numbers down. There was that GOP congressman who admitted outright to that.

[Mr.Bill]

68. His foreign policy knowledge is a great asset that some other candidates lack.

But that knowledge could be tapped by making him Secretary of State.

[Honeycombe8]

3. There are few candidates I like so far. I'm not crazy about Biden, anymore than the others.

He's okay.

What he said was taken out of context...it was an offhand, throwaway thing, said in a sentence about what Pence said that caused NO reaction by the Trumper crowd, said as explanation that it wasn't because of Pence. Not a summary of Pence's character.

Even if he said and meant what some (wrongly) think he said, it doesn't matter. There will be no candidate who is pure enough for someone who expects perfection, or someone who expects a candidate to say and do exactly what every voter approves of or would say/do himself.

Is anyone pure enough, perfect enough?

In any case, my issue with Biden is his age, and his stance on a couple of issues. But he's better than most of the others. I don't care much for any of them and so far don't see myself voting for any of them for the nominee.

There's an opening here for another candidate. Although there are one or two who just entered that I haven't researched yet.

[ananda]

4. Agree. I would vote for him.

nt

[DownriverDem]

6. What Biden would do

Biden would take it to trump big time. He would not hold back. In order to win a presidential election, it's not about who I like or who you like. It's about who can win the majority of voters in states we need to win. As an example, folks who did not like HRC, must admit she would be tons better than trump. I am a proud member of the Democratic Party. We have some mighty fine Democratic Party candidates. We have to find one who can win.

[PatSeg]

9. I absolutely no doubt

that Biden count beat Trump and probably by a landslide. People often underestimate his appeal to a very broad demographic. He really connects with voters and unlike Trump, he doesn't do it by provoking violence and racism.

[shanny]

33. um, he has run for President before. How did he do, again?

[PatSeg]

39. It was a different time

and he did not have the same party support in 2007-08 as he did in 2004, when party leaders went to him and asked him to run against Bush. He refused and I think he regretted it later, as that could have been his year to shine. By the time 2007 rolled around he decided to run, but the field was more attractive and very competitive.

Now he is a household name and of all the candidates, he probably has the most name recognition. I'm not saying that I think he should run, I have mixed feelings about that, but I believe if he did, Trump wouldn't have a chance in hell.

We have a lot of great candidates to choose from, unlike any lineup I've ever seen before. It will be hard to choose.

[shanny]

43. That was a different time.

He should have run in 2004. Now it is too late, and even nostalgia for the Obama years will not suffice. As I have posted elsewhere, the energy in the party is coming not just from the anti-Trump backlash, but also from women, minorities, millennials. How do you think those groups will feel about Anita Hill, the 90s crime bill, and the bankruptcy bill when directly asked about those issues?

[emulatorloo]

100. Well, that scenario applies to Senator Sanders too.

How do you think those groups will feel about the rape essay, dumping Vermont’s toxic waste on a minority community, pro-gun votes and so forth?

Sanders recent history is more relevant as is Biden’s. I think both of them will make a contribution to the 2020 conversation. If Biden decides to run.

[R B Garr]

7. Thanks for posting this, TT.

It looks like Biden didn’t want to cloud his criticism about a lack of presidential leadership by appearing petty about his VP successor and just made that remark as a seque into the rest of his takedown of Trump’s lack of Presidential leadership. He did this in a red state, and was attacking a GOP president. It was a great speech. He will be tough to beat on foreign policy.

[mopinko]

15. yeah, i think the spin was all wrong.

my take was that he was just trying to point out that there was no reason for the reaction he got that had anything to do w who pence was, that it was strictly about spanky.
he was trying to head off the usual rw stupid, but he underestimated their ability to spin shit. and dont we all?

[PatSeg]

42. Yes, I agree

And I think once we have a Democrat back in the White House, she/he would probably want to go back to traditional decorum, where a sitting president doesn't call predecessors and opponents insulting names. We certainly don't want this current administration to be a precedent for future ones.

On the floor of the House or Senate members refer to fellow members as "my esteemed colleague" or "my learned friend from___" and no one gets bent out of shape, even if that colleague is a total asshole.

[Perseus]

8. I really hope that Biden doesn't run

I like the guy, but I think his job should be of support for the next candidate.

[forklift]

10. Biden's only fault

is that he is a threat to those seeking purest of purity.

So outrage will be whipped up against him over trivial choice of words to reduce his favorability numbers by those who want someone of a pure ideology.

This will be done to other candidates who pose a threat as well.

Lowering the favorability of all our candidates is not good for we Democrats. That is - if we want to win the presidency in 2020.

But it is likely that some may have that exact goal in mind.

Where have I seen this movie before?

[Gothmog]

25. Agreed

I am not voting for the purest candidate but the one who can win. Joe Biden is by far the most electable Democrat in the field

[PatrickforO]

38. He's getting on in years. He is 76 now, and so if he won he would be 78.

I just don't think he's the strongest candidate. He does have strong name recognition, so he is up there in the polls. But his age is kind of the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. If he does the whole 8 years, that would mean he'd be 86 by the time it was over.

[forklift]

44. Biden's age may be a valid point of consideration

but this fake outrage whipped up over Biden's standard polite and meaningless words is not so much.

[BlueWI]

74. I would vote for Biden in the general.

However, "purest of purity" is purposefully inflammatory. In a field with many candidates, there are several reasons why Biden isn't a first option for me at this time.

Vote for the Iraq War Resolution
Not a reliable voice against wealth concentration
Lack of a clearly associated legislative priorities
Age (also a factor with Sanders and a soft factor with Warren, even though I am currently supporting her)
Need for firmer position on climate change/Green New Deal
Need for passion in building the party brand at all levels

That being said, my plan is to continue to elevate my involvement locally as the election season takes shape. Working to elect city council progressives right now. If others prefer Biden and he earns the nom, kudos. Meanwhile, I will support other candidates for now.

[BostonBlue]

11. The notion that Biden won't take the fight to GOP in no uncertain term is absurd

He's well aware of what these gangsters are up to. Does he really need to call Pence a bigot to prove it - nope. Long game people.

[peggysue2]

12. Think we need to be ready for these . . .

splitting-hair attacks on all our candidates. Joe Biden is no exception and the casual Pence remark is typical of taking a single statement and blowing it out of all proportion. I think Biden did a decent job of deflating the assault by personally apologizing to Nixon and stating flat-out that decency and bigotry against the LGBT community don't mix. If I recall, Joe Biden was ahead of the curve in promoting LGBT rights during the Obama Administration. So, this is an attempt to turn a strength into a weakness,

It's happening to other candidates as well and will only ramp up as we approach the actual primary. Because there are no perfect, gaffe-free candidates out there. What we will see, however, is how these candidates react while under the gun. Can they turn things around, think on their feet, turn an attack into a positive moment?

Might as well be prepared. Lots of ugliness coming down the track.

[IH8TU]

13. I am sure that Joe Biden Is a good man

I like him, but as an Atheist, I find Biden to be a bit too Religious.

Biden's Ash Wednesday Forehead

[New Hampshire Man]

14. Decent guy for credit card companies.

As a Senator in Delaware, Biden shepherded to passage a law that decimated bankruptcy protection for milllions.

[workinclasszero]

19. Yeah....the public has forgotten about these things now

However, if Joe runs, it's all going to be aired out, center stage.

Vetting is the term used around here.

We will see how well folks like the vetting of Joe Biden if he jumps in I guess.

[blue-wave]

34. You must be joking!!

I'll put Joe Biden's vetting up against the "now I'm a Democrat again" Bernie Sanders any day. Let's see who wins.

[shanny]

70. women, minorities, millennials--our base

how will they react when the discussion turns to Anita Hill, the horrible 90s crime bill, and the disastrous bankruptcy bill? You can argue, if you like, that it was a different time and required a different approach...to which I would respond, yes, it was the past and so is Joe Biden.

[blue-wave]

72. Well, since we're going there.....

All those videos of Bernie praising communist revolutionaries and the soviet system certainly won't be used by the right wing to smear him. FYI, those videos are out there because the republicons are prepped and ready to pounce.

[shanny]

73. That's Bernie's problem. I thought we were talking about Joe?

[George II]

75. Not to mention that he too voted for "the horrible 90s crime bill".

[Cha]

107. He also doesn't believe gun manufacturers should be sued..

Link to tweet

Oh and, all these no and non show votes.

[Cha]

106. Of course, they are. How could anyone

not realize that?

[crazycatlady]

78. not to mention Gen Z

More of them will be of age. Another thing to note is that in 2020, some voters will have not been alive on 9/11.

[shanny]

97. Very true.

[Cha]

103. Exactly, blue-wave.. We'll see how

Joe Biden handles his Vetting compared to how BS attempts it.

Link to tweet

[yaesu]

29. Yes, a debt spiral that many cannot get out of. The 2005 Bankruptcy bill was a "yuge"

giveaway to the banksters & was not progressive at all but far to the right. I'm hoping the days of the centrist/moderate democratic party is over, we need true progressives.

[workinclasszero]

104. They are over

What many here think are radical ideas are really mainstream American thoughts and wishes.

70% for Medicare for all, two in three for legal marijuana, majorities of both parties support Green new deal.

The criminal administration of tRump and his traitor party have gone all out for their billionaire owners.

The Democratic Party needs to go all out for the people when it takes over.

A move back to the center which really today is the right would be a terrible disaster IMO

[Laura PourMeADrink]

110. Like he says he sees the glass half full. He's a compromiser. He doesn't think every businesses

out there is the devil incarnate, He toes the line down the middle. May not be what we want here..but may be what most Dems may want...a compromiser.

[PatrickforO]

40. I haven't forgotten. A whole generation of our

children and grandchildren have been made into lifelong debt slaves because of this bankruptcy law.

[BannonsLiver]

60. He took care of workers in his state

You can complain about his purity of essence but by and large that’s what our senators and congressmen do, take care of their own state first. Sometimes we may not like that but it’s a fact of life on the hill, and always will be.

[WeekiWater]

62. This right here is going to be the main line used against Biden.

And it's going to work with a lot of people once they are reminded. His track record of being an economic conservative is long.

The vetting of Biden won't be about splitting hairs. He is not even in-line with the center of the party on economic issues.

Love the guy. His economic positions don't need to be revived in our party.

[workinclasszero]

83. Yeah can't wait to hear Joe's reasons in a debate

for letting credit card companies destroy average Americans.

[zaj]

16. We will destroy Democracy if we can't...

... say polite things and fight to block bad policy and implement good policy.

[elleng]

54. Yes

[McKim]

20. Very Decent Sorry He Didn't Run Before!

He is very decent and I am sorry he didn’t run before. He is someone who could really get the MAGA hat guys on his side.

My problem with him now is that he sent his son to the oil wars in Iraq. As the sister in law of someone who died for a lie in Vietnam I find this hard to reconcile. I like the new anti war movement that is coalescing in this country. I want my tax dollars spent on helpin our own people live better lives. I think many Americans are tired of paying for the 9/11 inspired wars of choice.

But again, I must ask why posts and stories supporting one candidate or another are not on the candidates forum and remain on the home page at DU. I thought there was an agreement.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

21. Joe Biden is the liberal Democrat who's most able to defeat Donald J Trump in the Electoral College.

Last edited Tue Mar 5, 2019, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Full stop.

We need to be smart in 2020.

Defeating Trump is a moral imperative. Too much is at stake.

We are not electing an internet troll, we are electing a Democratic president.

Stop with the BS attacks.

[blue-wave]

37. Thanks for saying this CrossingTheRubicon

I've personally witnessed too many BS attacks on many good Democrats in local primary races too. Locally we call those who are attacking "haters" and it must stop.

I just changed my undecided primary vote to Joe Biden.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

45. ...

[elleng]

55. Thanks

[WheelWalker]

69. 100% Full Stop!

The best ability is electability.

[Dem4Life101]

22. I like Joe ...

I saw him speak at West York HS in York, PA when Obama and Joe were running the first time.

With that said, I am concerned with his age. Also I rather not have a more "moderate" candidate.

I have a good friend that wants him and Kamala Harris as the VP. I do think that is a winning ticket but I also think anyone of these candidates could win and I rather put a more left leaning person in the White House and try and get real change.

[Gothmog]

24. I like Joe Biden and think that he may be the most electable candidate in the field

I am leaning towards supporting Joe because he is by far the most electable candidate

[Dot L]

30. Nice Guy

We do have to wonder if Biden's history will push voters away?

With his comments concerning Anita Hill & his Bill that favored the banks that prevents bankruptcy on student loan just might push the younger voters away. Then there's seniors that have had their Social Security attached for non-payment due to their children's student loan debt that hasn't been paid after co-signing for these loans. That's a lot of people affected by his actions.

[AdamGG]

35. A Biden/Kamala Harris ticket could do well in the general election

Yes, it would be nice to have a ticket headed by a more progressive candidate of a new generation. But, Democrats' paramount concern should be choosing a nominee who will win the general election by the widest possible margin, generating the largest possible coattails downballot. What matters most is maximizing the downballot seats we flip in state legislatures and governorships, so that we can reverse as much gerrymandering as possible after the 2020 census.

Of course, I don't know now that Biden is the person who will do this, but it's not unreasonable that he's one of the candidates who could fair well in the upper midwest rust belt states that we need to flip back. In a general election, I feel confident about how ObamaII vs Trump would play out.

IF Biden runs, of course there will be a long campaign and many debates to evaluate the situation, but potentially Biden at the top of the ticket with someone like Kamala Harris as VP, who would help maximize African American turnout, could be one of the scenarios that would yield the best results.

I also like the idea of Harris in the top spot with Biden as her VP choice. Running Biden as the 1st ever person to serve a 3rd term as VP would have some comic novelty that could play well, and he's already been defined as someone who provides an experienced, guiding hand to a younger, smart/passionate President.

[shanny]

36. Much of the fire on the left is coming from

women and minorities who are sick of their past treatment/the status quo and millennials concerned about the future. Ask them how they feel about Anita Hill, the horrible crime bill and the bankruptcy bill.

I like Joe. He's a decent guy. He'd be great as a surrogate/happy warrior, as SecState, maybe even a repeat veep. But not at the top of the ticket.

[WeekiWater]

63. People aren't as up on Anita Hill, the bankruptcy bill, and other conservative economic positions...

in Biden's history. They just aren't.

That is one of the reasons I think Bidens numbers will be driven down quickly. Much of this will be absorbed as if it is new information. It's going to be a rougher start for Biden than some think.

[shanny]

71. I agree.

It is a lot of baggage in all the wrong places.

[guillaumeb]

84. Very well said.

It seems as if this is ancient history for some.

[emulatorloo]

93. It will probably carry as much weight now as Bernie's rape essays do. Which is zero lbs.

I’ll also note Sanders past questionable votes never seemed to bog him down either. As you remember he actually voted for the crime bill, nobody cared.

As poster below notes:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=15324

“If we’re going to nitpick every person for every little thing they’ve done in the past without weighing the whole we might as well just resign ourselves to the end of the country. No one is pure. No one.”

[WeekiWater]

95. I believe you are only partially correct about Sanders essay.

He has yet to threaten anyone with a challenge. It hasn’t been used against him.


Also, Sanders was clearly out of it early in the game last time. It all had more of an impact than you think.

[emulatorloo]

98. Yeah Republicans won't hesitate to use it. And the young children one.

Republicans will of course use the full force of right wing noise maschine on any of our candidates.

It would be weird to see them try to paint Biden as a sexist or whatever over the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, given how desperately they need to keep Trump’s “pussygrabbing”, cheating, and sexual harassment off people’s minds. Plus they like Clarence Thomas! and don’t want to remind anybody of Anita Hill’s credible testimony.

They’ll just make something up, I guess.

[WeekiWater]

101. I think Biden's problem will be in our primary.

He is probably one of the better people to take on Trump. They will paint him as seriously sexist. They already are. It won’t have an impact if Trump is his opponent.

[emulatorloo]

114. The politics of personal destruction/character assassination

It is hard to forget how willingly some folks repeated decades old lies and smears created by the Republican party, in order to destroy a Democrat they didn’t like.

Beto already got the treatment, Harris is getting it, will be Biden’s turn if he gets in. I’m an optimist and don’t think it will work this time. It is too shrill, too over the top, too rapid, and way too obvious.

[R B Garr]

96. Young people are more concerned about current issues like

gun violence. Bernie has a lot to answer for there.

I recall the bankruptcy bill had a provision that said child support payments can’t be discharged. Helping single mothers is bad?

Anita Hill was decades ago. Like another poster said, young people will not have the same level of urgency about an old issue that would take the Hillary-hater level of blasting to influence them. Meanwhile, Bernie has current harassment claims against him in the MeToo era.

Biden was the VP to a very popular and cool ex-President. He’ll probably get a very good start. We are in the Trump era here, and those young people will see how much was lost in not getting Hillary/Democrat.

[BlueTsunami2018]

91. Average Joe barely knows what's going on right now.

Let alone thirty years ago. Go ask milinenials who Anita Hill is and you’ll get a blank stare. These things, put in the perspective of the absolute horror show that’s going on now, are forgivable and forgettable. Especially since he’s apologized for the Hill thing long ago.

If we’re going to nitpick every person for every little thing they’ve done in the past without weighing the whole we might as well just resign ourselves to the end of the country. No one is pure. No one.

[shanny]

99. Didn't say anyone was pure.

I just think Biden has a lot of the wrong kind of baggage. Don't mistake me--I like him personally and in many ways he has redeemed himself. I think he did an excellent job as veep, and it is even a role he could reprise. Or SecState. Dawg knows we will need some serious cred there in the next administration. I just don't see him at the top of the ticket, given the givens.

And btw, those 3 things I mentioned? Those are not gaffes, or awkward jokes, or "nitpicks"; they are BFDs, to use his own terminology. And Biden was a major figure in all 3, on the wrong side.

He's a bad candidate for the times.

[jalan48]

46. I agree and feel the same about Bernie. I hope the right treats him decently.

[roody]

90. I'm with Anita Hill on this.

[emulatorloo]

94. I watched all of Anita Hill's testimony, and Biden's not the reason Clarence Thomas was

confirmed. YMMV

[AlexSFCA]

102. comparing AOC to C.Nixon is disgusting

One is an elected official, brilliant young woman - the youngest ever elected in Congress. The other is a C-list mediocre actress and a demagogue.

Biden does not have appeal in general election any more than Hillary did. In fact Biden’s record is worse than Clinton’s, e.g., Anita Hill - Biden had a chance to destroy thomas, the most despicable and hateful member of SC.

[Cha]

108. Hillary Won 66 Millons Votes.. So your

narrative is FALSE.

[R B Garr]

111. Yes, totally false narrative. Hillary won despite 3 opposition

campaigns working against her. Biden is polling the highest without being in the race.

In the meantime, Sanders lost liberal California and New York, lost in 2016 and 2018 and we’re being told Democrats need to step aside.

[Cha]

113. Some people just have to drag on Hillary.. Not

Gov Jay Inslee.. He Thanks Hillary in his Acceptance speech..

Also This..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Hillary's Not running again.. so they'll have to try to get someone else to be the Boogieperson.

Probably try for Biden since he's in the lead without even announcing yet.. who is a hellava lot better, imo.. than someone who needs to tear others down to build themselves up.

[R B Garr]

112. Bernie has active harassment claims from his 2016

campaign in the MeToo era. Young people are more concerned about gun violence and gun votes than something that happened 30 years ago in a different time. Bernie’s gun votes have come under scrutiny by the young folks as we’ve seen after Parkland.