Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Tries to Reclaim the Insurgency
(The Atlantic magazine)
Bernie Sanders picked a small room for a weeknight rally and didnt come close to filling it. This was, his campaign says, all part of the plan. The new plan.
Across seven events over 48 hours in New Hampshire earlier this week, he drew an estimated 2,400 peopletotal. Most of the events were like what a strong congressional candidate could have pulled together.
To his credit, Sanders seemed like he couldnt have been happier to be back to this style of campaigning. He teased his upcoming trip to Arkansas to speak on behalf of Walmart workers at the companys annual shareholders meeting, tearing into the Walton family for piling up billions of dollars while full-time employees go on food stamps.
This week was a return to the life Sanders had lived until 2015, riffing in backyard get-togethers about how hed tried and failed to stop the Iraq War, but turned out to be right all along, subsequently receiving praise from small groups of aging white lefties who helped spread the word that Bernie was the real deal. During three events on Monday, Sanders even had his old friends from Burlington, Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, scooping Ben & Jerrys ice cream themselves.
Rivals see a campaign thats stagnating. Polls show Sanderss numbers falling, with Senator Elizabeth Warren and others gradually ascending, and the larger Democratic mood toward unity seems to be at odds with his combative style. That may be why the Monmouth University poll last week that measured Democrats favorability ratings of well-known candidates showed Sanders behind former Vice President Joe Biden, Senator Kamala Harris, and Warrenand, at 44 percent, well down from the high of 53 percent he enjoyed in March.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/05/bernie-sanders-new-hampshire/590698/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SouthernProgressive
(1,810 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Just part of a bigger picture perhaps. I read in VT papers that he refuses to help leftist candidates who run to carry the banners he once did in local governments. No one seems to know why. Whatever. Hope his work returns him to his roots for some while.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....including members of Vermont NAACP chapters.
https://vtdigger.org/2018/12/03/state-activists-question-inclusivity-sanders-institute-gathering/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Whoa. Only 4 prominent VTers invited, NO VT activists?
No idea what all this comprehensive snub was about of course, but Id bet good money these reps of many progressive groups dont agree entirely with him about absolutely everything. How could any normal involved people? But he is famous for intolerance to deviation.
Incredible. How do they let him get away with it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)Each and every one as white as the driven snow, at least three of which (maybe four or five) are 1%ers:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Vermont's senator explained that this was a national event. Sure, the leaders of the long list of groups who signed that letter of disapproval were passionately involved in progressive solutions, but they were from Vermont.
Plus, most of those strongly focus on social justice issues. That exclusion's the complaint, of course, but Sanders' progressivism is about economic class warfare. I have to admit I can see it. The ice cream billionaires and movie stars would have been invited to illustrate the evils of wealth concentration, and probably the Vermont Partnership for Fairness and Diversity didn't have someone who could perform that function.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Because of course they were....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,281 posts)Said no candidate ever...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,287 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to left-of-center2012 (Original post)
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George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to George II (Reply #5)
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corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Smaller turnouts aren't necessarily dispositive of anything more than a need for better scheduling and coordination. His staff hiring in multiple states deliberately has been slowed by the new, rigid ethics requirements.
When those 1,000,000+ volunteers are given specific marching orders, you'll see an historic spike in crowd sizes outpulling even 2016.
Should the coordination have been better now, 6 months before Iowa? Yes but I'm exactly 0% worried.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)One of Bernie's larger goals as president is to repair voter apathy. We trail most of the industrialized world in election participation. The best way of addressing it is by deploying an army of volunteers to knock doors and perform the most effective form of electioneering, retail.
Bernie is providing a peek into a key stratagem of his general election strategy.
Bottom line: the fact that Sanders has a vast lead in obtaining committed volunteers is a huge sign of strength.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)Look at it this way, one in every 325 people in America (including children) is a BS volunteer? I seriously doubt it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)about one's favorite candidate seems to be a problem in some fans of certain candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I was not aware that Sanders was ahead of other candidates. What data are you using?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)1 million worldwide (but largely in the U.S.):
http://politico.com/story/2019/04/03/bernie-sanders-2020-volunteers-1246524
and 25,000 in Iowa
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446807-bernie-sanders-weve-got-25000-volunteers-in-iowa
I only follow similar numbers for rival campaigns informally from time to time.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 5, 2019, 02:25 PM - Edit history (4)
You stated:
Then you stated:
A quantifiable statment "of fact" that you can't verify isn't a "bottom line" and therefore is not a "huge sign of strength."
There is a difference between facts and wishful thinking. Understanding that difference gives one credibility.
Admitting when one has confused wishful thinking with "a fact" also gives one credibility.
Just sayin'.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)I trust his numbers as fact but don't spend much of my precious time comparing the size of his base to that of his rivals.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You stated:
Again, that was wishful thinking, but you declared it as "evidence" and a "fact."
Did he say that he had the largest number of volunteers of any rival candidate?
That was your claim. You have yet to provide any other data than your personal enthusiasm, and need for good news. It may be correct, but unless there are numbers to back it up, it's just enthusiasm talking.
You may recall that Sanders stated that he didn't know that his campaign had paid a $30,000 sexual harassment claim settlement to two staffers. There may be other things that he does not know - such as the actual number of volunteers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-apologizes-says-he-didnt-know-about-30000-settlement-of-2016-campaign-staffer-accused-of-sexual-harassment/2019/01/10/db2c061e-14fc-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....if he had 25,000 volunteers in the state (assuming they are all Democrats) that means one in every 24 Iowan Democrats is a BS volunteer?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)I'm not prepared to call him a liar. In fact, I take them as straight-up fact.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Can you provide a link?
Is asking for backup for one's claims 'calling them a liar?"
You must be very distressed at any fact checking of Senator Sanders by the free press, if that's your position.
You will be in for a very stressful campaign season.
You may recall that Sanders stated that he didn't know that his campaign had paid a $30,000 sexual harassment claim settlement to two staffers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-apologizes-says-he-didnt-know-about-30000-settlement-of-2016-campaign-staffer-accused-of-sexual-harassment/2019/01/10/db2c061e-14fc-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html
There may be other things that he does not know - such as the actual number of volunteers. It's not calling someone a liar to ask for the source of their statements of numbers.
What does it indicate when someone gets defensive and angry whenever asked for backup for their claims, as if it's an attack?
Something to think about, isn't it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)My use of the word "liar" was in response to a parallel thread, not yours.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to corbettkroehler (Reply #33)
ehrnst This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 6, 2019, 08:44 AM - Edit history (4)
Nice try.
In politicalspeak, I would call that kind of defending a strawman so one can accuse someone else of attacking it a "Kellyanne."
Let's review....
You made the claim that Sanders had the most volunteers of any of his "rivals:"
I asked you for data to support this, and you answered that "you trust his numbers."
I trust his numbers as fact but don't spend much of my precious time comparing the size of his base to that of his rivals.
However, YOU are the one using "the size of of his base of volunteers" to make a case that he is "leading his rivals." You can't have it both ways... I asked you directly if the "lead in # of volunteers" claim was included in "the numbers that you trust" because you implied in your claims were based in "Bernie being the most honest politician" .. I even bolded it so you couldn't miss it.
No reply. Answering honestly that you did, he didn't ,would render your "Bernie is honest and an absolute source of facts, so you are calling him a liar when you doubt his statements" strawman unusable to defend your incorrect statements, and you can't defend your "vast lead in obtaining volunteers" statement with any data provided by any other source than Bernie. I can understand the embarassment a being checkmated.
But I gave you another chance to show where Sanders had stated that he had the lead, since your source of facts in this thread seems to be "What Bernie Said."
You then claimed I'm the one who said that he claimed to have the lead, not you. I was ASKING for the basis of your claim that he had the lead, based on your own "Bernie is honest so I believe him," justification for your numerous statements of "factual evidence of Bernie's strength" on this thread.
It's sad when someone bends over backwards to avoid simply saying that they don't have data, to the point of getting very, very defensive and going on the attack. It doesn't lend one credibility. "My Bottom line:" at the beginning of a sentence doesn't end the discussion, FYI, or make it a fact.
I think you should have learned by now that I don't or derail or fall for gaslighting easily, no matter how passively worded. That's terribly frustrating for those who deploy them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Let's try this again. My basic position is this:
1) Sanders has a yuge number of volunteers.
2) I accept his claims as to the exact count of volunteers as fact.
3) I spend little to no time comparing his volunteer ranks against those of rivals because my chief concern is that he have enough to win states, which he overwhelmingly does. The difference in his volunteer ranks versus the ranks of rivals is not dispositive of his ability to win.
Nothing will change my stance.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)That's a "yuge" pivot from when you said:
But now you say...
However your 'stance' clearly changed in a "yuge" way, despite your unwillingness to acknowledge it. That's what's commonly referred to as "doubling down."
You said you ran for office, yes?
So quoting you is now a "baseless attack?" Is pointing out the fact that you have not backed up your claims, and made false claims about what I said "a baseless attack?"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,029 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)He railed for two years against the corrupting influence of big money on politics, wink wink nudge nudge cough Clinton, and then after much delay, reveals that he himself accepted a ginormous advance to write a slim book on . . . politics. Not good.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,318 posts)Lol.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Lol.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,442 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden