Bernie haters will get what they want.

[Cartoonist]

Go ahead and insult his supporters all day and every day. And then on election day, after being insulted, they will say "to hell with those assholes!" and stay at home.

That's what happened last time.

[gateley]

1. Are there Bernie haters?

I left DU years ago because of the infighting between the candidates' supporters -- I'm just tiptoeing back and I haven't seen the vitriol of years past.

Regardless of who I'm for, I'm supporting the Democrat - just like I did last time.

It's not about ME and what I want, it's about our very lives and our country. I can't believe people would let Trump happen again.

[sheshe2]

2. gateley?

Is that really you?

[gateley]

9. Hi!

I saw you and was going to say 'hey' but didn't know if you'd remember me!

I think of you often when there's talk of Hillary - you are such a loyal supporter. I'm happy FOR HER that she's not going to have to go through this circus again.

How have you been??? Hope you're well!!

[sheshe2]

23. OMG.

It is you! I have missed you dearly.

You fought the good fight, always.

I am okay gateley, times are tough, yet doing okay.

You good?

[gateley]

25. I'm doing okay, too --

Sorry to hear about tough times -- anything I can do? I'll hold you in my heart.

[sheshe2]

43. Thank you, gateley.

I will let you know.

[calimary]

5. Regardless how I feel about Bernie, if he's our nominee, he's got my vote.

Without a doubt.

I’m an Inslee fan now. REALLY impressed with him, especially his Priority One (the climate crisis) which is my own Priority One). But whoever it winds up being, he/she gets my vote.

[gateley]

12. I honestly would be happy with any of our current candidates --

I trust them all.

Inslee's my Governor and I agree with him on the climate (duh). I've seen a few posts by people who were impressed by him on Rachel last night. He might do a LOT better than we initially thought.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. I like Inslee's Priority #1 too... but, thankfully, it is high on Bernie's list.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[brooklynite]

84. Perhaps, as a Governor, Inslee has the ability to implement a policy where Sanders does not?

[BlueWI]

148. Implementing policy is a team effort.

Building public support for progressive legislation has been a strength of the Sanders campaign, as demonstrated by the enthusiasm of new and young voters for Sanders. As much as I appreciate former president Obama, he didn't excel at building public support for the core policies of his administration. That needs to change, whoever is the nominee and eventually president-elect in 2020.

[Power 2 the People]

162. +1

[BlueWI]

147. Have to look closer at Inslee.

[calimary]

193. Yes. Please do! He might be the answer.

[hlthe2b]

6. a blast from the past!

How are you?!

[gateley]

18. Wow -- a blast from the past is right!

It's so good to see you all! I am doing well -- and you??

[pangaia]

7. "Are there Bernie haters?"

Oh, BOY are there Bernie haters..
You will soon see,

[gateley]

16. I'm sorry to hear that -- we all believe in the same things,

the division just pisses me off and breaks my heart.

I support everybody for whomever they're supporting, but pray that we all do our duty on election day.

Otherwise we'll get another 4 years of all the agencies being dismantled and our safety sacrificed for money for the wealthy.

I'll give DUers the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

[LongtimeAZDem]

82. nevermind

[sellitman]

14. Good to see you posting again.

I hope you stick around a while. You were missed.

[gateley]

17. Hi!

So good to see you! Hope all is well!

[TwilightZone]

51. It's often a matter of interpretation and perspective.

So, the usual here at DU. One person's valid criticism is often another person's "hate", though the usual vitriol is also in evidence.

Same as it ever was.

[Stellar]

164. It can get a little heated around here, lol!

if you don't fall in line with who ever the majority here likes, otherwise there is going to be an argument. And I don't like to anger people, so I rarely post. But no matter what happens, I will always vote BLUE!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

202. Yup, especially if it involves Bernie... NOTHING he does is EVER good enough!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Stellar]

204. +1000

[Eliot Rosewater]

197. Not about YOU or the specific issues you WANT? How dare you be so humane and patriotic!

[hlthe2b]

3. Honestly... can we just discuss relative merits of ALL the candidates without this vitriol?

[Autumn]

11. You would think so but there are people who refuse to move on. I don't understand how people can

hold on to hate and grudges for what they see as a slight to a politician. It boggles the mind.

[sheshe2]

32. Hillary. nt

[R B Garr]

70. The continued false narratives about Democrats are why you

see the pushback. Constant revisionist history also boggles the mind.

[Autumn]

76. I see no continued false narratives about Democrats but I do see a lot revisionist history. nt

[R B Garr]

89. That is a false narrative in itself. The whole ethos of his

campaign is anti-establishment and all the attendant smears about Dems to perpetuate that. That’s why you will continue to see pushback. This revisionist history about the most basic common knowledge events is not necessary.

[Cha]

96. YES.. The OP is a False Narrative, too.. and

notice all the posts glomming on to that.

They don't care that the OP "sat home" last time and contributed to trump getting Rigged in. All they care about is the false narrative that BS' supporters are insulted day and night and calling us "assholes".

Way to make his case.

[R B Garr]

117. +1000, yes the OP is totally a false narrative. I don't

see anyone trying to coddle or win over Democrats, not even Bernie. I’d even settle for the attacks on my party to stop, but here we are again in the same divisive cycle.

[TwilightZone]

4. If people make decisions on whether or not to vote based on anonymous internet posters...

then they probably weren't going to vote anyway.

All candidates get attacked. All candidates have supporters who are jackasses. It's been like that here since the beginning and it happens every election cycle.

This place occasionally requires a thick skin, and I suggest that anyone who lets DU posters influence whether or not they contribute to getting rid of Donald Trump and his cabal work on theirs a tad, regardless of whom they support.

[BlueWI]

149. It goes beyond attacks, which are inevitable on the internet.

I appreciate it when I learn new things from posters and when my enthusiasm for being a volunteer and activist are enhanced. I think we forget that a lot of us on DU invest time and money in campaigns regularly, and the needless spats and exaggeration affects our perception of the party. Criticism is warranted and needed, but discussion of the issues and election strategy is needed more.

[Eliot Rosewater]

198. Oh gosh do I DISAGREE

The NONSTOP incessant BASHING of any given person, we KNOW who it has been in the past and I am referring to more than one person, and that bashing was from EVERYWHERE

AT a dinner party and the comment is "I just cant trust Kamala, something about her" then the 20 people that hear that 2 of them were on the fence about voting at all, now they wont vote maybe.

BTW I trust Kamala, I am using her as an example.

Then those 2 people who saw that here or heard in a public setting turn on the news and they see "concern over Kamala history as DA" and the BASHING piles on and before you know it people are voting 3rd party or NOT at all.

BIG PROBLEM

[guillaumeb]

8. Most Bernie supporters voted for HRC.

But on the topic of attacking other candidates, it is better to speak positively about one's favorite candidate and avoid attacking the others.

[LakeArenal]

10. If folks haven't learned history, then they will repeat it...

Bernie supporters insult Democrats everyday.

[Autumn]

13. I keep seeing that posted but I have yet to see Bernie supporters insulting Democrats every day.

[LakeArenal]

19. Well not on DU. But I hear it on tv quite a bit.

I am a former Bernie supporter. I know many who are still for Bernie.. So I hear it. But former supporters on DU don't...

[sheshe2]

33. Umhm. nt

[Autumn]

35. In fact quite the opposite. nt

[sheshe2]

38. ummmhmm

[R B Garr]

73. Yeah! Agreed! It's constant revisionist history,

Harris, O’Rourke, Biden, Booker — all are getting Hillaried. Umhm is right.

[sheshe2]

77. Ummhm.

Luv ya, R B.!

[R B Garr]

80. Luv you, too, she!

Always good to see you.

[sheshe2]

85. ...

[Cha]

101. BS himself insults my Dem Party..

Out there on TV after the "election" calling my Democratic Party "Elite" and how "humiliated" he was. Making it all about himself.' Calling our Democratic African American Base "Elite" and "Weak" Yeah, BS always has the insults.

And, insulting his "opponents" Like This?..

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211722251

BS insults my party.. He can expect pushback. It's called Vetting..

Link to tweet

[lunamagica]

118. Right Cha! It's hard to achieve unity, when supposed leaders act in the most divisive way!

[Cha]

119. Exactly, Luna.. something that gets thrown

down the memory hole when it comes to whom exactly is the Divisive one is this tragic scenario.

[LakeArenal]

152. Indeed. I question why anyone would say he supports the Party at all

He’s an independent with very independent views. Also it’s his unspoken threat to run third party if he doesn’t get the Dem nod.

That is not my candidate. Like Lieberman.
Can use “independent” as a weapon if they don’t get their way.

AND... taxes please Bernie.....

[Mr. Smith]

183. His "unspoken threat"? Somebody is living in your head.

The Bernie bashing gets pathological around here.

[LakeArenal]

185. Pathological is getting thrown around a lot. Cool buzz word. Trendy too.

Anyway, show your taxes Bernie and your supporters can think what they want about my head.

[LakeArenal]

187. So much for unspoken threat...

That the Dems had him sign this pledge.

https://www.nhpr.org/post/bernie-sanders-signs-democratic-party-loyalty-pledge-2020-run#stream/0

I believe paragraph 3 discusses threat to run third party. Oh but that is pathological to think it, right?

Anyway, Bernie good job signing loyalty pact.

Now show your taxes.

[forklift]

68. It is by design - with Tad Devine tactics

When a positive message does not get traction beyond the small base, use all means necessary to bring down the favorability ratings of the opponents to win by comparison.

All of it involves a concerted effort via social media to influence people who were not even born when a given candidate accomplished a lot and make them think negatively of the opponents while one's own candidate turns a blind eye towards what it is doing to our party and the eventual nominee.

Sowing seeds of poisonous bushes is never right. I am seeing attacks on Beto O'Rourke, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and others already ... magnified millions of times via social media ... It won't hurt them in the primaries much but it will poison the broader electorate against them, making Trump win.

We Democrats should call it out every time.

[Cha]

100. YES they do LakeArenal.. but that doesn't fit

into the OP's agenda.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

111. I see it on Facebook All The Time. n/t

[NurseJackie]

15. Aw.

Go ahead and insult his supporters all day and every day.

Nobody is doing that.

And then on election day, after being insulted, they will say "to hell with those assholes!" and stay at home.

Aw.

[melman]

24. That's a swell gif

You sure do have a lot of clever gifs.


How delightful.

[sheshe2]

36. I agree with you melman!

That's a swell gif

Clever indeed. And delightful!

Glad we agree!

[melman]

63. What?

Agree on what?

[sheshe2]

99. melman.

melman (3,912 posts)

24. That's a swell gif

You sure do have a lot of clever gifs.


How delightful

sheshe2 (54,035 posts)

36. I agree with you melman!

That's a swell gif


Clever indeed. And delightful!

Glad we agree!

melman

63. What?

Agree on what?

You said it was a swell and clever gif. You said it was delightful. I agreed. Why are you asking what I agreed on? Gifs are fun and funny.

Here is one of my favorites. A child laughing delightfully. This is what I love about children, such innocent joy and delight. I have great nieces and nephews now. Watching them laugh was the best medicine. It soothes you. I don't know if you have any, if you do you will understand exactly what I mean.

[melman]

104. Huh?

I'm not sure I follow. So sorry.

[sheshe2]

107. Woah.

melman

104. Huh?

I'm not sure I follow. So sorry.

Geez Louise.

lol...

Night.

[emulatorloo]

108. You said it was a clever gif. She agreed with you it is a clever gif. you said huh?

She repeated that you said it was a clever gif, and that she agreed with you that it was clever gif.

You said huh? again.

It’s not that hard to follow. I think it was nice of sheshe to try to find a point of agreement with you.

[melman]

109. Yeah

well that's nice that you think that. Really terrific in fact.

But maybe if you read it all again you'll see there's a bit more to it. Or not. I really don't care.

[emulatorloo]

110. Maybe you're reading something into it that isn't there?

Hope you have a better night ahead.

[melman]

172. Maybe I'm not

Interesting that you felt compelled to jump in and chastise me yet had nothing to say about the original gif.

I am (apparently) rude for not appreciating (fake) agreement but constantly posting rude, insulting gifs and emojis is A-OK.

Interesting.

[Control-Z]

121. They're is nothing in this world more joyful to me

than the sound of a baby's laughter. Your baby gif is one of my favorites. Baby laughs so hard he/she falls over - and keeps on laughing.

I love your posts, she.

[sheshe2]

188. Hi Control-Z.

Thank you.

My sixth grand niece/nephew arrives this summer. I can't wait! I do love listening to a babies laugh, such joy.

[NurseJackie]

159. I know. I do, don't I? Thanks very much for noticing.

melman 24. That's a swell gif
You sure do have a lot of clever gifs.
How delightful.

I know. I do, don't I? Thanks very much for noticing.

[melman]

170. You're welcome

Here's a picture of Edie Falco with a good friend.

[George II]

30. NJ does it again. I LOVE how you can find graphics to suit each and every purpose.

[NurseJackie]

160. Thank you!

It's very rewarding when my objectives are met, and when others (yourself included) are moved to let me know that my animated gif responses have the desired effect.

[WeekiWater]

20. I have a higher opinion of the overwhelming majority of them than you do.

You just painted them worse than I ever have, as a group. HA Goodman and the Insane Progressive are the exceptions, not the norm.

[TwilightZone]

21. Insulted? Like calling the supporters of other candidates "assholes"?

Hmm.

This might come as a surprise, but Sanders isn't the only target of vitriol on DU.

[Cartoonist]

40. Not me

I did not call supporters of other candidates assholes. I called those who insult Bernie and his supporters names.

And I see it every day. I don't see the opposite happening. Certainly not at the same rate.

[sheshe2]

55. Ummhmm.

[Cha]

97. Like BS calls the Dem Party "Elite".. that kind of Insult?

Out there on TV after the "election" calling my Democratic Party "Elite" and how "humiliated" he was. Making it all about himself.' Calling our Democratic African American Base "Elite" and "Weak" Yeah, BS always has the insults.

And, insulting his "opponents" Like This?..

Bernie: ‘My Opponents’ Want Black, White, Gay, Latino or Women Candidates ‘Regardless of What They Stand For’

After the 2016 election, Sanders hit a similar theme when he told a crowd of supporters “It’s not good enough for somebody to say ‘hey I’m a Latina vote for me’ that is not good enough,” and went on to add “It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.'”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211722251

BS insults my party.. He can expect pushback. It's called Vetting..

Link to tweet

[sheshe2]

105. Thank you, Cha.

[Cha]

112. Yeah, I'm calling Goose and Gander here..

If BS didn't insult our Dem party all the time.. None of this would be even an issue. But, he's the one who decided to divide himself and make us the "Opponents". Who apparently don't know how to vote for who's good for us.. or something.

she

[MrsCoffee]

141. You see what you want to see.

[Hortensis]

22. NO. @23-24% voted Republican and third party.

NEVER to be mistaken with the 3/4 of Sanders primary supporters who were solid Democrats and always had Hillary as their second choice.

We're talking about those despicable OTHERS, the quarter who voted for Trump or voted third party in order to help elect Trump and hand congress over to the Republicans.

Oh, btw, 2% pf Sanders' primary voters did stay home and not vote at all. Imo, all who failed to stand against the evils rising on the right behaved despicably. As you suggest, some probably were the kind of people who would accept Trump and the Republicans' promises to hurt millions to spite some posters on social media. Of course, who knows what people who could do that would have done anyway? To my mind that some believed what Sanders told them about Democrats would be extremely unflattering to them but still a better explanation than spite.

[George II]

31. Led by Susan Sarandon and Nina Turner, who both voted for Jill ("Dinner with Vlad in Moscow") Stein.

[Hortensis]

42. Yup. Despicable enough, but given their antipathy toward

the Democratic Party, though, I wouldn't bet either or both didn't vote directly Republican instead of wimping around with Stein and that creepy VP of hers who preferred Trump to "Uncle Tom" and "smiling neo-fascist" Obama.

[RandySF]

26. Oh boy

[Cha]

27. It's called VETTING this time around

and I've noticed BS fans like to deflect and accuse others of "Bernie hate".

Like you're doing right now.

[Cartoonist]

41. A day doesn't go by

Every day someone has a problem with Bernie's independence. How petty. If they have a problem with his positions, then criticism is justified.

[TwilightZone]

44. That is a position.

Like it or not, he's going to take criticism for his on-again/off-again flirtation with being a Democrat, particularly after he indicated in 2016 that he was a Democrat for life, then promptly left the party again shortly thereafter.

https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/277086-sanders-will-be-democrat-for-life-campaign-says

It may be petty and inconsequential in the big picture, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect consistency on the topic. Candidates get criticized all the time for changing positions on issues over time.

Also, if that's your idea of an attack worthy of staying home from voting, you might want to re-think your priorities. On the vitriol scale, that's about a 1 out of 10.

[Cartoonist]

46. I'm for Kamala

I'm just sick of this BS.

[Cha]

48. Damn Straight.

[Me.]

137. His Last Senatorial Campaign Is A Good Reason Why People Have Doubts

about his relationship with Dems

[Cha]

47. It's Called VETTING. This just the

Beginning. No Exceptions.

[forklift]

69. No one dislikes Bernie's positions

Bernie wants the same things that 97% of all Democrats want.

What we want is conventional transparency which we do not get from Bernie -- like his tax returns.

[Andy823]

28. Yep they sure did sit home

And look what we got out of that!

[sheshe2]

52. They sure did, Andy.

[LongtimeAZDem]

29. They will do that, no matter what we do.

[sakabatou]

37. My problem in the last election was

"If Bernie isn't elected, I'm not voting!"

[handmade34]

39. kinda proves it...

[Cartoonist]

45. Ok, I'm out

The Bernie hate is overwhelming. Even though I clearly support Kamala, all one has to do is try to stop the hate and they'll hate you for it.

[TwilightZone]

49. I mean this in all sincerity.

If you get so upset with minor criticisms of any of our candidates this early in the primary season that you want to stay home, DU isn't the place for you. This is nothing compared to what's coming up.

This is the nature of the beast and Bernie is not the only target, your protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.

I agree with your underlying assertion that it would be great if we'd not attack each others' candidates but the examples you're providing aren't attacks. They're legitimate criticisms.

Besides, calling everyone a hater and an asshole is as vitriolic or more so than anything I've seen from anyone else in this thread. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

[sheshe2]

59. +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[still_one]

65. Excellent post. I don't buy the argument that we argue and debate among ourselves. That assumes

the Democratic party is monolithic party, and it isn't. There are issues that Democrats are going to disagree with each other on. The Pollyanna illusion that everything is fine in Pleasantville is not going to win the general election.

[LakeArenal]

194. Or the idea that we "attack" as a mob.

We are each expressing our concerns.

There is no concerted effort to attack Bernie. If one is experiencing a lot of their perceived “Bernie hate” it may be a great number of us simply question the same things over and over.

Lots of it could be dealt with by simply releasing taxes.

[Cha]

103. Perfection! "Besides, calling everyone a hater and an asshole is as vitriolic or more so than

anything I've seen from anyone else in this thread. Perhaps you should take your own advice."

[LongtimeAZDem]

50. Seriously, what did you expect? You confiirm in your post what we believe happened last time,

threaten that it will happen again, and then get upset when we react with disdain?

A good number of us here believe that the actions of Sanders and his supporters last time were a significant factor in the election of Donald Trump as President of the United States. How do we walk away from that, especially when the threats are already starting up again?

I'm glad you're no longer supporting Sanders, but just because you're now for Harris doen't mean you can tell other Democrats that they should just get over it.

[forklift]

72. +10000 nt

[R B Garr]

75. I haven't seen Bernie reach out to Hillary supporters.

His leadership is non-existent. I only say Hillary supporters because she is the last face of his official competition. What has he done for me lately?

[lunamagica]

120. Reach out? He's done the opposite

[progressoid]

142. What would that "reach out to" look like?

Have we seen it from any of the other candidates either?

[R B Garr]

151. None of the other candidates have run such a anti-establishment

campaign against my party, then switched to Independent, then switched back to Democrat, then registered to run Independent in the next election in their home state.

Hillary bent over backwards to not alienate Sanders supporters at a very high cost. That is common knowledge now.

[Cha]

195. Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=5478

LOL.. BS himself asked his supporters not to Harass his Opponents.. That would be us.

No other candidate has had to do this.

RB

[WeekiWater]

90. Hate has a meaning.

It’s not what you think it is.

[Cha]

98. False Narrative.. It's Called VETTING.. Quit Deflecting.

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

53. sanders was not taken seriously by the press last cycle and was not vetted

So far there has been more vetting of sanders than in the past. sanders will be vetted this cycle and vetting is part of the process https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

Again, a nominee needs to be vetted and I am glad that sanders will be vetted this cycle. This is part of the process in the real world

[Progressive2020]

116. Sanders In 2020

I think Sanders running in 2020 is a completely different animal than Sanders running in 2016. He benefitted in 2016 by flying under the radar for a while, and Hillary did not play too roughly with him so as to not alienate his voters, as you point out.

Then he was the only real primary alternative to Hillary. Now the field is crowded with Democrats, none of whom is the clear leader like Hillary was. Also, with candidates like Warren in the race, Bernie is no longer the only major left/progressive candidate. So, in 2016 he was the main alternative to Hillary, whereas now he is one choice amongst many.

This makes me wonder why he is running now. I think that he is trying to maintain his national profile. I think that he has pulled the party more to the left, with many of his policy positions being taken up by other, perhaps more mainstream Democrats. I am certain he wants to be President, but I also think that he wants to be seen as the Progressive Elder Statesman. So he is running to keep himself in the public eye, like many other kinds of politicians would.

I am a Progressive and I support Bernie's policy positions (Medicare For All, Free College Tuition, Renewable Energy Economy, $15 Minimum Wage), but I am also a Pragmatist. I am not certain that Bernie could win, and I am not certain that it matters, since many of his positions have been taken up by his competitors anyway.

That might ultimately be Sanders legacy: He may have changed the political climate, and may have moved the Party and the Country further to the Left. A lot of these positions were once viewed as pie-in-the-sky, and what was once called radical then now seems mainstream. So I think he deserves some credit for making Progressive Policies seem more mainstream.

As far as his electability goes, with Warren in the race, the two of them might split the progressive voters that Bernie had all to himself in 2016. And if Bernie survives past Iowa and New Hampshire, he will perhaps be more closely vetted this time, as you point out.

[Gothmog]

128. There are a large number of real Democrats with long memories

I will support sanders if he is the nominee. I am hopeful that we can keep sanders under 15% In my district and deny him any delegates from my district.

There are a large number of real democrats who will not forget or forgive sanders

[Progressive2020]

182. Yes

I agree that there are a lot of Democrats that are not happy with Sanders. This is another reason why he might not be electable. He has too many enemies in the Democratic Party.

There are things that I like about Sanders, and things that I do not. I support most of his policy positions, though. Most of the things that I do not like about him are personality issues, not policy issues.

Anyway, I think Sander's Progressive Agenda is now out there, and has been embraced by a lot of Dems who see its popularity with voters. So, in my view, Bernie has already accomplished his mission by putting these Issues in the national spotlight.

I am still undecided, but ideally I would like my candidate to be electable AND support a lot of basic Progressive Policies. I think that Bernie may have too much baggage and too many enemies in the Democratic Party. I question his electability.

I am looking at Warren now, and also Booker and Harris. I think that Warren is a True Blue Progressive. I think that maybe other candidates have adopted some Progressive positions because it might help them get the nomination.

I would rather see a candidate that is Progressive at their core, rather than a political opportunist, but I am Pragmatic. If a candidate supports a Progressive Agenda, I will consider them, regardless of how committed they are to an underlying Progressive Philosophy. We need to get Trump out and get a good Democrat in.

[katmondoo]

54. I do not hate Bernie I just feel this year we have so many great candidates

and I do not think he is the best, Jay Inslee has my vote now.

[GemDigger]

56. Just so I understand, are you saying that it is the haters fault that Bernie supporters didn't vote?

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Cartoonist]

81. I voted

So I can't speak for them. I just don't think anyone appreciates abuse. I'll stop doing it now.

[LongtimeAZDem]

138. "Not voting", in this context, includes voting third party, which a lot of them did.

And your right, nobody appreciates abuse. That includes calling everyone with the temerity to question a candidate's motivation as "haters".

[Tribalceltic]

57. I am not a hater of anyone

Being called one makes me want to revisit that decision.

These are the types of posts that have driven me away from Bernie Supporters, not Bernie himself.

I support Kamala for her policies, not because someone tells me I have to

[Snotcicles]

58. It wasn't Bernie supporters who stayed home last election. They were Hillary haters. nt

[sheshe2]

61. Woah.

[Demsrule86]

179. Whatever they were they were not progressive...or they would not have helped Trump win.

If you didn't vote for the nominee, you voted for Trump...I don't know how such voters sleep at night...they helped stack the court with righties which may block progressive agenda for a generation, the damage to the environment is incalculable and we may lose Roe...not to mention children and others have died at the border...I find such folks despicable...the ones who didn't vote or who voted for the spawn of Satan ...Jill Stein.

[forklift]

60. There are no Bernie haters

However, there are people who want him vetted thoroughly.

Instead of threatening the people who want to scrutinize Bernie, his supporters (even those... ahem ..undecided) should encourage Bernie to participate in the vetting process. Releasing his tax returns would be a good start.

[progressoid]

143. "There are no Bernie haters" Hahahaha!

You're apparently new here.

Hating Bernie is a full time sport for some here.

[still_one]

62. Flame bait bullshit. I'll tell you what happened the last time. LISTEN CAREFULLY. There were SOME

self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee.

THAT IS THE END RESULT!!!! THAT IS ON THEM FOR NOT VOTING!!!

They KNEW what the stakes were. If nothing else, the Supreme Court!!!

We lost with the contribution of some self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016 by voting third party, or not voting, and were also aided by the FBI, probable foreign interference, and our illustrious media.

It didn't take much to lose from those so-called progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee either.

In everyone one of those critical swing states Hillary lost by less than 1%. In those states, Jill Stein received 1% of the vote.

In everyone one of those critical swing states every Democrat running for Senate lost to the incumbent, establishment, republican. That made what happened in 2016 a perfect storm, and everyone of those Democrats were progressive by any standard.

Trying to setup a scenario that implies a threat, "we'll show you, we won't vote" sounds like a 2-year old's tantrum to his or her Mom.

Gee, I wonder if my last sentence will drive some folks not to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2020?

[oasis]

67. 100% THIS

[LongtimeAZDem]

71. +∞

[forklift]

154. Thank you for your courageous post

Telling the truth like you did can be dangerous around here.

[still_one]

155. I do appreciate your compliment, but posting anonymously on a message is not particularly courageous

thanks though


I understand what you are saying though loud and clear

[forklift]

158. As Shakespeare said

One who doth posteth anonymously can beest enshielf anonymously as well.

Well .. not quite Shakespeare but .... close enough.

[still_one]

169. ....................................................................

[George II]

166. Sanders' recently appointed co-chair openly spoke about voting for Jill Stein and urged....

....others to vote for Stein.

[still_one]

171. I know. Some kind of 3-D chess I imagine going on there

[Blue_true]

64. Anyone who would stay at home in the face of a possible Trump second term

doesn't appear to be someone that sitting down for a rational conversation with would change their minds. We should focus on people who didn't vote because they thought Hillary had it sewn up and explain that one NEVER make that assumption, look like many of them got that memo based upon special election performances by democrats and the 2018 midterm results.

[elleng]

66. Thanks. ALL of the insults, in every direction, will HURT!

[emulatorloo]

79. See my post below.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=14235

[elleng]

86. Good one, thanks,

but we here don't have the qualities/characteristics of OTHERS, including the general populace.

[emulatorloo]

88. Oh I really do hope more people do. I have a lot of faith in voters

I am probably naive --- but the 2018 midterms were so encouraging

[elleng]

93. Yes they were encouraging,

but you know that people being called idiots are not likely to be open to suggestions of the caller.

Think 'deplorables.'

[Cha]

94. Yeah, NO "thanks".. he's Admitting he sat home

and pouted the "Last Time" & therefore had a hand in getting trump rigged in.

That's What Fucking "HURT"! And, he's Threatening to DO IT AGAIN. He cares more about his percieved feelings than our Country. I would NEVER Sit the Hell home and NOT VOTE for the Dem NOminee. I care TOO MUCH for our Planet.

The OP is calling those who don't want BS "assholes".. way to make his case.

It's Called Vetting BS.

Link to tweet

[Mike Nelson]

74. I have several friends...

… that were Bernie supporters. They all voted for Hillary, as far as I can tell. However, I do recall seeing some posts here and on Facebook from Bernie supporters that said they would never, ever vote for Hillary. I believe them... but they were a minority and many of them would not have voted for her, anyway.

[emulatorloo]

78. I have never not voted because some anonymous person was "mean" to me on the internet.

It is my civic duty to vote for the presidential candidate most likely to protect the most vulnerable members of the United States.

I am not going to throw poor people, the elderly, minorities, women, and LGBT people under the bus because a DU'er was hateful to me.

If that's how you view things, that you would harm your fellow citizens and allow a Trump to be elected because some anonymous person was "mean' to you on the internet, I suggest you take a long look in the mirror and get your priorities straight.

Additionally, I want to note that I like Bernie and supported him in 2016.

All of our candidates will have to answer hard questions this time. Hard questions aren't "hate", they are the hard questions we need to ask to choose the best candidate for president.

[still_one]

91. If someone doesn't vote because of what someone they don't even know says on a forum or social media

that's on them, and setting up a strawman argument to blame someone else for their reason not to vote is a total cop out.

[brooklynite]

83. Are we allowed to raise issues about Sanders without being labeled "haters"?

[squirecam]

87. TBD

It’s going to be ugly for a while...

[still_one]

92. ........................................................................................

[wasupaloopa]

95. Bernie will never make it to the General election.

I continue to be amazed by the lack of a sense of reality by Bernie supporters.

[Garrett78]

102. Same here. Not one Bernie supporter has addressed the matter of the primary schedule.

Actually, there was one who addressed the point that's been made over and over again about the 20 or so states that vote between New Hampshire and March 17 (and how there's no reason to believe Sanders will do considerably better than last time among POC and non-millennial women). That individual said something like, "I don't care about facts or logic. I just believe in my heart that Bernie will be the nominee."

I recently ventured over to Jackpine Radicals for the first time after hearing so many mentions of that site here at DU. Holy cow. Talk about being out of touch with reality.

[radical noodle]

122. You should have gone over there

after the 2016 election. They were celebrating that Trump won. That told me all I needed to know.

[Garrett78]

124. Apparently several people there think we have a candidate from WA and a candidate from MN...

...because of a DNC conspiracy to prevent Sanders from winning those 2 states, as he did in 2016. JPR is like an electronic version of an insane asylum. An e-asylum.

[radical noodle]

125. I think you've nailed it!

Somewhere there must be a Janon... like Qanon but for JPR.

[OhZone]

106. I really don't get some Bernie supporters -

If all the other supporters of other candidates who do not make it as a nominee, but can still support the nominee, why does one candidate's supporters need special treatment?

If by some miracle he makes it, I will vote for him, but he does need to be vetted and not protected. We need to know what will come out in the general EARLY!

All the other candidates will be vetted, you know.

Oh well.

[Cha]

123. Excellent post, OhZone.. Mahlao!

[betsuni]

113. I have a feeling the "insults" of the "Bernie haters"

are that Bernie isn't a Democrat and he hasn't shown his taxes like he said he would.

[Cha]

115. Pretty much.. and this is from BS' own Staff..

Bernie Sanders's Staffers Want Him to Be Less Grumpy

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=13767

It's called Vetting and their accusations aren't going to stop it.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

114. This is coming from BS' own Staff..

Bernie Sanders's Staffers Want Him to Be Less Grumpy

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=13767

[RelativelyJones]

126. Anyone who won't vote now is motivated by weird things and not worth the bother.

[peggysue2]

127. What a cheery note!

Doesn't everyone love the smell of threats? We have a madman sitting in the White House and a bunch of petulant voters--who may not get what they want--might just stay home, we're told, giving said madman another 4 years to wreck the place.

Because it happened before, doncha know? Amazing. And after all those denials to the contrary.

Just another chapter in spreading divisive BS before the most important election of our lifetimes. Calling DUers assholes, too. What a lovely strategy.

And we're the haters. Really?

[LongtimeAZDem]

145. +∞

[GatoGordo]

129. It isn't just me, but Bernie isn't a Democrat

His association with the Democratic Party is one of convenience.

When he wants money and infrastructure and know how, he comes running.

And then he touts about how he isn't beholden to anyone or any party.

FUCK HIM and his supporters. He isn't a Democrat and he is pilfering our resources to screw us over.

Let Bernie and his Bros build their own party. I sure as hell don't see any of the Bros around any time after elections are held (or any time Bernie isn't on the ticket)

[betsuni]

130. So, "Bernie haters" are status quo neoliberal establishment elites who want Republicans to win.

Their diabolical plan: insult Bernie's supporters "all day and every day" to reach the goal of goading innocent supporters to the point of crying out in frustration and pain, "To Hell with those assholes!" and staying at home dusting and organizing closets instead of voting.

[GatoGordo]

132. Sure would help if Bernie was a Democrat

[betsuni]

134. What does that mean.

[Demsrule86]

180. No matter how 'mean' someone was to me...I would still vote for the Democratic nominee...but

then I am a Democrat and a progressive. Those who voted for Stein or stayed home...were neither.

[Starry Messenger]

133. Behave the way we want or the kitten gets it

[betsuni]

135. Heh!

[sheshe2]

190. Good to see you back, Starry Messenger.

I have always loved your posts. And this one is a hoot!

[Starry Messenger]

191. Nice to see you too!

I’m parked on twitter these days, but I’m trying to be around more here too. Missed my DU peeps!

[sheshe2]

192. We miss you and the AA Group.

Hugs.

[LexVegas]

136. ...

[leftynyc]

139. So what you're saying is

that Bernie supporters are toddlers who will have a temper tantrum if people don't kiss their asses. Well okay then.

[LongtimeAZDem]

144. They spent the last two years denying that they did what this OP admits, and threatens again

[leftynyc]

153. Sick to death of him

and his supporters. I try and stay off these threads but couldn't resist this one.

[themaguffin]

140. Bullshit

[Cha]

175. Thanks!

[themaguffin]

199. I just can't stand straw men like this.

[Cha]

200. And, neither can I.. many others..

You spoke for us.

[Trumpocalypse]

146. It is every American's responsibility to vote

and to vote for what is best for their country. Voting is not something that should be taken lightly and acting like a spoiled teenager who won't go to a party unless everyone promises to be polite to them is not responsible.

[Amimnoch]

150. Like those same ones wouldn't anyway?

Notice that he's the ONLY really contentious candidate?

A huge part of the basis of the "hate" on him to begin with is because of their own "Bernie or bust" movement and the history he and a very vocal segment of his supporters propagated. I would love to have an open and honest discussion of exactly what I'm talking about, but for either his supporters to open those discussions or for those of us who oppose him to have those discussions, we'd have to lift the ban on discussing 2016, because almost everything that elicits our response, and refusal to support him comes from that period.

You worry about his supporters saying "to hell with those assholes!" if he loses, but rest assured there will be more than a few that say "to hell with those assholes!" if he wins.

More than a few of us suggested his returning to the ballot for 2020 would cause these problems. He knows his running causes these problems. So it leaves one wondering, if he has this effect, and knows he has this effect, why's he REALLY running? I've got my own suspicions, but dare not air them here.

[OregonBlue]

156. Seems to me the best way to shut down the pro or anti Bernie

hater arguments might be for the rest of us to just butt out and let that little portion of the membership duke it out.

Since we don't know how strongly held the beliefs are or what the motivations might be in all instances, perhaps the mods could create a Berie forum where people could go to fight and leave the rest of us in peace?

[lynintenn]

168. I like your suggestion

[MineralMan]

157. Who are those Bernie haters?

Is everyone who prefers a different primary candidate a Bernie hater? Is each person who points out a flaw in Bernie Sanders a Bernie hater? Heck, is anyone who is not 100% behind Bernie Sanders as a presidential candidate a Bernie hater?

[IronLionZion]

161. Haters gonna hate

Be wary of any DUer or liberal who spends more time hating on any of our candidates instead of supporting any of our candidates, especially once we get closer to the general election time next year.

[OregonBlue]

173. Nailed it!

[Cha]

176. Yes and then there's The Vetting Process where

all candidates are going to be Vetted this time around.

[Gatoloco]

163. Threat noted

Thanks.

[Stellar]

165. Is that what happened to the PUMA's? nt.

[Paladin]

167. I absorbed plenty of insults from arrogant Bernie people, here at DU.

I've been at DU since its inception, and I never saw it worse than the 2016 campaign. The vile behavior of Bernie acolytes guaranteed I'd be tempted to never lift a finger for him---other than my middle one. I just wish he had the grace and good sense not to compound the damage by doing it all over again.

And since you brought it up, let me direct a profound "Fuck You" at those stay-at-home Bernie people who put trump in office. I don't particularly like Bernie, but if it had come down to a Bernie vs. trump election, I would have cast a vote for Bernie.

[Cha]

174. Exactly, Paladin.. We love our Planet More

than nursing our egos by staying home or voting 3rd party Lies.

Most of us were right there with you taking those insults.. some worse than others. It was beyond Horrible.. many of the worst left DU for some place they could sling their hate & lies more easily now.. a site called jpr.

[Demsrule86]

177. Threats....I still won't vote for Sanders in the primary.

The general yes I will but not the primary.

[TheRealNorth]

178. The question you have to ask

But you have to ask yourself how many are Russian/MAGAT trolls trying to sow division.

Republicans can't beat Democrats by the numbers, so Divide and Conquer (along with vote suppression among other things) is the name of their game now.

[LongtimeAZDem]

181. Sowing division is not a worry unless one group of supporters refuses to vote for the candidate

[LanternWaste]

184. Damn... I was hoping (just a little bit) for something rational.

Instead, I get a bumper-sticker bemoaning the oppression of another sacred cow being placed on a imaginatively constructed cross.

Which is (just a little bit) ironic, no?

(Slow day in the funny papers, I'm guessing)

[LongtimeAZDem]

189. BVS

[namahage]

186. Concern noted. n/t

[Cha]

196. Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=5478

Even BS know this.

[sarcasmo]

201. Is 10 years of tax returns the answer?

[PubliusEnigma]

203. Ooohh, you really showed us last time, huh! Bernie supporters are really Trump supporters in the end

[Renew Deal]

205. Coddling them didn't work. Might as well be honest.