Why I can't support Mayor Pete

[Cartoonist]

I see there's a new thread in which Pete is quoting the Bible. He does that a lot.

I want religion out of government.

[chowder66]

1. I take issue with that as well but will vote for him if he's the nominee (and doesn't

trip up so terribly badly that I can't bring myself to vote for him).

[radical noodle]

17. If he's the nominee

can any "trip up" make him worse than trump?

[chowder66]

25. Yes. If he is the nominee and regarding tripping up, depending... it could be enough.

Though I doubt that would happen.

[highplainsdem]

2. Can you name any Democratic president or nominee who wasn't quite open about belonging to a

particular faith?

There's nothing unusual about it.

I believe Mayor Pete uses Biblical quotations at times to point out the hypocrisy of the Trump administration to other people of faith, and it's a very effective method.

[Amimnoch]

48. This!

Echos my thoughts exactly. Every time I’ve seen him utilize his faith it was pointing out why those who share that same faith exhibit hypocrisy in their cult-like following of Cheetolini.

I’ve haven’t seen a single thing from him that in any way shape or form indicates that he will operate the executive office from a nonsecular position.

[iamthebandfanman]

72. Proud to be Jewish

but not very religious. - bernie

[highplainsdem]

85. You're right about Bernie. But I was asking about past presidents and presidential nominees, not

candidates.

[Moostache]

80. I remain firm in my support of his candidacy...

The religion discussions are being used to diffuse and offset the undercurrent of religious-based anti-gay bigotry that still has some cache was being "ok" even in the second half of 2019...

There are still a lot of people who remain hung up on sexuality and religious reasons to condemn anyone not sufficiently defined for their liking. Pete is pointing out that religion CAN be used in many ways and does not have to be fundamentalist tripe to help people find meaning.

I have always found his kind of religious citations less intrusive and less offensive than the standard "gawd hates the ghey, so I hates the ghey too" pap that is standard fare.

[highplainsdem]

87. Whether or not he gets the nomination, I think it's extremely important, and helpful to

our party, to have a Democratic candidate who can speak as eloquently on these issues as Pete can, and to such great effect.

Kudos to him.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I have no problem with it. I also agree that religion and government shouldn't mix,

but the reality is that many if not most politicians (Obama, for example) do ascribe to some religious faith and that it will influence their personal values. Buttigieg's position is that the right wing doesn't own religion and that they are hypocrites when they talk about it.

“I don’t think religion belongs to one political party,” the mayor of South Bend, Ind., said when asked how his Episcopalian faith informs his values.

“When I go to church, the scripture I heard has to do with protecting the poor, and spending time with the prisoner, healing the sick, and caring for the stranger, which, to me, is another word for immigrant," he continued. "It has a very clear set of moral and policy implications, none of which are things I would associate with the right wing.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446682-buttigieg-weighs-in-on-religion-in-politics-reveals-his-pop-culture-hot

The hypocrisy of the evangelical conservatives is really the main reason he talks about religion.

As Buttigieg himself pointed out, “Our party doesn’t talk about [religion] as much.” The reason for this, he said, is that Democrats are committed to the separation of Church and state, and that the party wants to stand for all people, regardless of their religion. But it may also be a reflection of the growing irreligiosity of the Democratic base: The party’s most politically engaged voters tend not to be affiliated with any particular faith. Buttigieg’s knack for speaking in the language of God makes him exceptional within his generation, but it may also be a strength in reaching the swing voters and voters of color whom Democrats so badly need. Of all the candidates onstage, he spoke most directly to the anger that many Americans seem to feel at the way religion has been co-opted by the Trump administration, at odds with the faith they deeply hold.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/06/pete-buttigieg-religion/592897/

Religion in politics is a problem when the power of the state is used to enforce the beliefs of a particular religious group, which is what the evangelicals are trying to do. The fact that a candidate for office speaks of his religion to point out the hypocrisy of those who would use their religion to do harm doesn't bother me at all.

[mr_lebowski]

27. Well said, this atheist concurs ... nt

[sprinkleeninow]

52. You so fine! 😊

And what you expressed also.

[brooklynite]

4. So you won't be voting for anyone?

Last I checked, we don't have an avowed atheist running.

[Cartoonist]

33. I have no problem with personal belief

As long as he doesn't make it public policy. Since he can't stop talking about religion, I have serious reservations. I can't recall any Democrat other than Carter who was that religious.

[brooklynite]

34. So you didn't vote for President Obama?

Who maintained Bush’ Office of Faith-Based Initiatives.

As for Buttigieg, what policies has he allowed to be infused with religion?

[Cartoonist]

36. Of course I voted for Obama

Pete has made more religious statements in his run than Obama did in 8 years.

[Celerity]

42. Zero of his policies have anything religious in content, I am an atheist to the bone, and have

zero issues with Buttigieg's faith. He uses it to try and push back against the insane RW fundies and their weaponisation of releigion, and also to not cede that territory via capitulation.

[Cartoonist]

44. If he keeps it that way, fine.

Excuse me for being wary of anyone who uses religion to identify themselves.

[Celerity]

46. I have watched dozens upon dozens of hours of talks and speeches, have read a copious amount

about and by him, including his book, and never once has he ever used religious dogma in any policy proposals. Quite the opposite, he is a bright-liner when it comes to separation of church and state. His religion is merely the foundation for his person morality. He is one of the last people I could see trying to shove a personal religious belief down another person's throat.

[brooklynite]

51. But you've already say you won't support him...

...you didn't give him the benefit of the doubt.

[not_the_one]

69. The only vote I ever regret was because of religious influence...

I voted for one republican in my life, Gerald Ford, for two reasons...

I was VERY uncomfortable about "pastor" Jimmy Carter's outspoken religious beliefs. Having a "pastor" president would have been, to me, a mockery of the separation of church and state.

I was raised in an evangelical southern church and regurgitated all the dogma that was fed me, until I finally decided to think for myself. I have been an avowed atheist ever since.

Given my discomfort with Carter, I was VERY impressed with Betty Ford, and what she was doing to bring issues to the front that hadn't been addressed before. I felt that if Betty was whispering into Gerald's ear at night, he would always do the right thing. I could see her coming out as being supportive of gay rights.

(The pardon was prearranged, and I am sure Ford had no control over it. It was part of the deal by the GOP that was negotiated for Nixon to leave.)

Looking back, Jimmy Carter was probably the best man to ever hold the presidency, and actually personified a true Christian. I so regret not giving him my vote.

I am still a card carrying (well, IF we had cards to carry... ), avowed atheist, but feel that Mayor Pete is one of the few good, real Christians. He uses it as a personal guide for his life, and understands that others can find just as valid alternative paths to follow.

I can handle that.

[redstateblues]

76. Great post. I echo what you say about Carter.

[LanternWaste]

73. Any objective sources for that allegation?

"Pete has made more religious statements in his run than Obama did in 8 years."

Any objective sources for that allegation?

Or is it too, just another bumper sticker on a primer gray truck?

[marylandblue]

53. So you had a lot of reservations about Carter because of his religion?

Which of his religion-based policies were you troubled by?

[Cartoonist]

57. I was OK with Carter

Still am.

[marylandblue]

59. Then you have no reason to doubt Buttigieg, unless you can demonstrate that

he has or would make policy based on religion.

[Cartoonist]

63. Sorry

But I am uneasy with those who profess their religion too much. I hardly know Pete.

[marylandblue]

67. You can be uneasy as much as you want, you have no reason for it.

[Politicub]

65. This was my first thought after I saw the OP, too. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

5. I see him shaming the fundies, which is good

if the strategy is to peel off some of their vote. We got 19% of the evangelical vote last time around. Obama got 24% in 2008 and won by 10 million votes.

Beyond the calculation, he’s obviously sincere about calling out their hypocrisy. To do that effectively, he needs to be sincere about his own faith. I find him to be overly cautious at times but this is one area where he has stuck his neck out on principle.

[hlthe2b]

6. Actually, though i'm agnostic, I LOVE that he is doing that. Taking the RW fundy hypocrisy headon

Especially their attempt to bastardize the message of the bible to justify their hate, misogyny, racism, homophobia, and on and on. It is one of his best "weapons"...

[Meadowoak]

8. +1000

[Lefta Dissenter]

28. That was chintzy.

+1,000,000

[lapfog_1]

68. I do that myself... Mayor Pete is possibly the smartest person running for President

unfortunately that isn't the criteria for selecting one.

[leftofcool]

7. Well fucking good for you!

You do realize he is showing repuke hypocrisy?

[Cartoonist]

37. And how is that working?

Name one repub who has been shamed.

[Celerity]

43. turn him loose in a debate with Pence, lolo.Also, the Never-Trumper Rethugs talk about being ashamed

all the time (not saying that that is the direct result of Pete, obviously) so it can happen.

[floppyboo]

70. Oh Yes! Pete vs. Pence! Delish!

[marylandblue]

55. Has nothing to do with Republican politicians who won't change.

He's aiming at ordinary people in the pews. At least that's the bet he is making. It may not attract many people, but I doubt it will turn many off either.

[tulipsandroses]

9. I'm a non believer but I don't take issue with him quoting the Bible

I get that some people use the Bible as the center for their morality- Nothing wrong with that

Matter of fact - I agreed with Sen Koons recently when he said that Democrats that are religious should talk about their faith more. Not in the terms of using it in govt - But Americans are using that as a litmus test as to whether they are going to vote for someone. The religious right has completely taken religion to be their own as if Democrats are all A-religious. That is not true. He mentioned how Joe Biden's carries Rosary Beads with him all the time, and talks to his colleagues about how his faith got him through tough times. Cory Booker mentions his faith and how his faith centers him. Sen Warren was a Sunday school teacher.

I think its also good political strategy to mention your faith. It might sound weird to use religion as political strategy but I don't think of it in a way being manipulative. Its about being authentic. It does not mean that you are going to let religion affect how you govern. I think its a good thing that the religious folks show a contrast in how they practice their faith vs the religious right. One of the quotes that I read from Mayor Pete was that twitter thread re: Mike Pence being a fake Christian regarding treatment of migrants.
The Bible is filled with verses re: How immigrants should be treated - Yet according to many of the religious right they should be treated in just this manner.
I have not heard him talk about using his faith to govern. He is being authentic in that faith is a big part of his life. Staying true to who he is. As a person who is non religious, I appreciate that and give him space for that. Its the same space that I want to be my non religious authentic self.

[stopbush]

10. I agree. Let's elect candidates for whom FACTS - not fantasy - are of primary concern.

[leftofcool]

12. Here are some facts

1. There will never be medicare for all, not even Democrats will vote that into a budget
2. No tax payer is going to pay off your student loans, your mortgage, or your credit cards
3. No taxpayer will ever pay for a free basic income

[Turin_C3PO]

19. Medicare for All has to happen slowly.

First we need a public buy in. Then as people get used to that we can talk about single payer.

As to your second point, is there a candidate proposing paying off mortgages or credit cards? And something needs to be done about student loan debt because it is crippling.

And your third point, a UBI won’t happen yet. But it will have to be instituted sometime in the future due to automation of jobs

[Celerity]

45. +1

[BootinUp]

11. I think you misunderstand him. Nt

[KPN]

13. Huh? I think Buttigieg would agree with you about separation of religion and government. There's

a pretty wide gulf between quoting the Bible for appropriate purpose (like chastising tRump, thew GOP, and evangelicals) and religion being officially part of government. Hell, I quote the bible from time to time, and I'm agnostic.

[left-of-center2012]

14. As a good as an excuse as any

[LAS14]

23. Why do you do that? Why do you assume that people's....

... motives are other than what they say they are? This riles me every time I see it on DU. We should be better than that.

[left-of-center2012]

29. "Why do you assume that people's motives are other than what they say they are?"

Just said: "As good a reason as any."

[LAS14]

31. Sorry, I don't understand your subject. As for the body of your post,

you're doing it again. I'm actually very calm. Why do you assume otherwise?

[left-of-center2012]

32. Bye

[Cartoonist]

38. It's my only excuse

I still like Pete. That's his only negative with me, but it's huge.

[FreeState]

49. So your problem is he's religious?

I can’t find a single policy of his that is based on his religious beliefs and don’t see any pointed out in this thread?

[Cartoonist]

58. No

My problem is he's TOO religious.

[LanternWaste]

74. Again, what is precise measure of "too religious."?

Is there an objective measure you use, or is it simply another bumper sticker in place of any real substance?

[Cartoonist]

89. Quoting the Bible

I don't care if he's trying to expose the hypocrisy of the right. That's already been done. I despise religion and consider it the darkest evil that has afflicted mankind. Someone who wears his religion like a suit is out of touch with reality.

[wyldwolf]

15. Your concern is noted

[CrispyQ]

16. It's past time the dems challenged the myth that the GOP is the party of God.

As long as we don't make that claim, I see no problem with dems pointing out the GOPs hypocrisy on morality & if it takes throwing their precious Bible back at them, so be it.

Go Mayor Pete!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. For me, "reclaiming" the bible should not be a policy the president takes the lead on.

[marylandblue]

60. Quoting the Bible or pointing out religious hypocrisy are not policies.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

62. I don't think a president should do either of those, either.

[democratisphere]

20. Too much focus on his personal issues.

It is not about "me", but it is about "we".

[guillaumeb]

21. Agreed that religion should play no official part,

but in a country where most people, and most candidates, are religious, I will always support the progressive.

In a choice between Franklin Graham and William Barber, the choice is clear.

[Cartoonist]

35. So far

I could choose Pete over Trump. Unless Pete goes over the top and claims he's on a mission for God.

[guillaumeb]

41. Agreed.

Any one of our Democratic candidates is far better than any GOP candidate.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

71. He will NOT do that, ever. That is not who he is. n/t

[LAS14]

22. I assume you mean in the primaries? nt

[customerserviceguy]

24. Normally, I'd agree with you on that

but when I see Pete Buttigieg quoting scripture, I like to imagine fundie heads exploding!

[mtnsnake]

26. Any mention of religion in politics is a big turnoff to me, but

whenever I've seen Mayor Pete talk about religion or Christianity, he is usually using that subject to make the point of how hypocritical the Religious Right is when THEY use religion and the bible for all the wrong reasons.

[Dave in VA]

30. What about he sings

Amazing Grace at a memorial service?

Asking for a friend...

[Cartoonist]

39. I never liked that song

That just shows a bad taste in music. Better he should sing Going Home.

[Celerity]

50. I think a great song for him would be

Heaven 17, “(We Don’t Need This) Fascist Groove Thang”

[Dave in VA]

40. Here's my friend singing...

[Celerity]

47. +10000

[dalton99a]

54. He's trying to create/resurrect a "religious left"

and lead that movement.

You don’t need God or religion to know right from wrong. But to each his own.

[MarvinGardens]

56. You mean like this?

[Shrek]

61. Bill Clinton quoted scripture when he accepted the nomination in 1992

Hillary Clinton quoted scripture in her concession speech. Barack Obama said "God's in the mix" when talking about marriage.

This is not some ominous new development in Democratic politics.

[Politicub]

64. Buttigieg has to run for president unlike any other person who has come before him.

And he's doing it in the best way that he can to blunt criticisms from the religious community. He also cut Pence off at the knees, which has been satisfying to watch.

I'm an atheist, but for some reason, Mayor Pete doesn't rub me the wrong way. He's the best kind of christian -- one that I wish others would emulate.

He doesn't insert his religious beliefs into how he would govern. He has included non believers in his remarks.

I think all of the candidates have some sort of religious belief or another. Are you not going to vote?

[BannonsLiver]

66. That's a solid reason

My reason is that he’s not ready to be president.

[marlakay]

75. I don't go to church but respect Pete's

Beliefs. He isn't trying to get us to join his church or tell us we're going to hell.

I think what he is doing is standing up for people of belief on the left. The right seem to think they own religion and he is great on calling a bunch of them out as hypocrites which I think is past due.

From what I have read in the Bible when I was younger Jesús would have thrown most of them out of the temple.

[SidDithers]

77. +1...

A liberal theocrat is still a theocrat.

Sid

[brooklynite]

86. So, Buttigieg is a theocrat?

Theocrat (noun): a person who rules, governs as a representative of God or a deity

[TygrBright]

78. In 1976 I said the same thing about Jimmy Carter.

And I deeply, deeply regretted it.

thoughtfully,
Bright

[Proud Liberal Dem]

79. That bugs me too

I mean, it's not hateful fundamentalist/bigoted stuff but it still doesn't belong in government

[nini]

81. he's calling out their hypocrisy more than anything

I'm not a fan of the bible thumping either.. but I believe his tactic is to expose the hypocrisy of the right's claim to Jesus and the bible while they're acting like the devil himself in many ways.

[DemoTex]

82. I quote from the Bible quite often .. and I also quote Harry Crews, W. Faulkner and W. Shakespeare.

There is some good shit in there (the Bible), especially if you quote it for your own purpose - as described by Shakespeare in "The Merchant of Venice." The Bible is, in fact, a rich source for many great writers. Including Crews, Faulkner, and Shakespeare, to name just three.

After all, "it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks" (Acts 9:5 - KJV).

[rzemanfl]

83. I recall my very anti-clerical, atheist granfather saying:

"I will vote for Kennedy even though he's Catholic and I know he'd never vote for me, because I don't go to church." This country will elect a tattooed lesbian vegan President before it ever elects an atheist. I have nothing against tattooed lesbian vegans, I'm only trying to show the hold religion has over this country.

[OneBro]

84. Meh

I assume every sane Democrat will support the party’s nominee, so it always seems like excess verbiage when someone throws the comment in as though it’s a special seasoning.

Hopefully this won’t start a trend of “Why I can’t vote for (name of Democrat)” threads.

I’m definitely curious, though, if there are any DUers who would refuse to vote for their least favored Democrat if s/he wins the nomination. My bottom two would likely make me cry on Election Day, but I’d still vote for ‘em.

[secondwind]

88. Mayor Pete has no intention of injecting

religion into our politics. Obama went to church, etc. Most of our politicians are somewhat religious.