"Poll: Americans Not Sold On Trump -- Or Democrats"

[Kahuna7]

This poll has some very revealing findings. It's well worth it so consider it's key takeaways. We need to stop assuming that a Dem...any Dem is a shoo-in. Of course, I never assume that to begin with.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats?utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&fbclid=IwAR0D0iMhOfc6uGL-ZDlCJrvebL0Zn98z6g6HdlRWupPa7UIRwV8wcI5ldGQ&fbclid=IwAR3bCChbKI-SdUugJRNzTog7rOwXKUSJ2wnYM4pYBQkRzyv5MJ4xtiSulU0

Democratic presidential candidates are proposing lots of progressive policies in this election. And while those policies may resonate with the party base, some of those ideas are not popular with a general election electorate, according to a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

And overall, independent voters said they were not impressed with the direction either President Trump or Democrats want to take the country at this point ahead of the 2020 election, the findings show.

"Independents are on the fence overall," said Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist Institute for Public Opinion at Marist College, which conducted the poll. "They're not willing to grant President Trump reelection, and yet they're not persuaded by Democrats at this point."

[maxsolomon]

1. F an "Independent Voter"

Their knowledge of facts and policy is a mile wide and an inch deep; most of them don't even vote.

Flibberdigibbets.

[Kahuna7]

2. Okay. Though most elections, if not all are decided by Independents so

I think it's foolish to write them off.

[maxsolomon]

4. Oh, don't write them off. We have to pander to them and beg them to show up.

But F them for their gullible ignorance.

[qazplm135]

5. proof for this assertion please.

2004 was decided by republican base voters.
2008 and 2012 were also decided by base voters, this time Democratic.
2016 was decided by republican base voters coming out strongly for Trump.

There are very few true "independents."

Study after study has shown that Dem and Rep leading independents vote as partisanly if not moreso for each side than self-described partisans do. There are very few independents that don't lean.

I concur...F "independents" focus on getting out the base. That does not mean be the most liberal candidate as possible by the way. The Dem base is a mix of liberal, progressive and left of center. You put forward policies that each group can sign off on and isn't a deal breaker for any one group.

You'll always have extremists on the left and folks so "extremely" centrist that they might as well be republicans who will complain, but both elements are much smaller than they make themselves out to be.

[PatrickforO]

9. And yet, according to Gallup,

42% of registered voters identify as independent, while only 27% identify as Republican and 29% as Democratic.

Here's a link. https://news.gallup.com/poll/225056/americans-identification-independents-back-2017.aspx

And, now, cannot resist weighing in on your 'mile high and inch deep' comment. Honestly, due to decades of conservative 'christian' dumbing down of K-12, most of our media being owned by six big publicly held corporations, the decline of newspapers, the siloed 'bubbles' created by social media, the lack of a fairness doctrine, and the high viewer/listenership of Fox and AM talk radio, we can make your mile high-inch deep statement about perhaps 90% of the electorate, regardless of party.

We have a lot going for us this time around. Warren has some great ideas, Buttigieg is amazing at framing issues, Harris is good but being pressured for some position statements, and of course Biden and Bernie.

With any luck at all, we'll get the word out effectively this time around.

Also, did you see the great post on here from Mr. Scorpio of the twitter stream from this guy Wise, who was a part of the campaign against David Duke in 1990? Link below. Great advice for all of our candidates, and for us as well.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12302230

[maxsolomon]

12. How many of that 42% actually vote "independently"?

If you're Both-sidesing between the parties in the President Rapist Sociopath era, you're not paying attention.

At all.

[PatrickforO]

17. Gee, Max, maybe you should look at the rest of my posts before making

a massive generalization like that. That is downright offensive.

Did you read Scorpio's twitter stream for that guy Wise that I linked in this thread? It's good because we need to be fighting tooth and nail against racism, and we need to be making that a front-and-center issue in the election.

As to the other issues, look to my other posts.

And yes, we do need to get our message out, effectively, to independents. Most of them are more partisan than they let on. This is what it actually looks like:


?resize=768,575

[maxsolomon]

18. Sorry, pretty irritated in general with America, Dem politics and even DU right now

So I'm going to fall short of reading all your posts.

I read Mr. Scorpio's tweet-storm post. I agree.

And I wasn't directing the "you're" at you. It was directed at the "Independent Voter".

[PatrickforO]

19. Well, there you have it, and you're right. Someone who is too lazy to take the time

and make the effort to look into issues so they can participate intelligently in a national election is in fact behaving contemptibly.

I always come back to what Dickens had the Ghost of Christmas Present tell Scrooge about the two little children, Ignorance and Want.

Beware the boy (ignorance) he said, for upon his brow doom is writ.

Funny because to my mind the real enemy is the billionaire donors and big publicly held corporations. They have spent YEARS buying the American government and now it has come home to roost.

We're about an inch away from going fascist and unleashing another Holocaust. The corporate greed-heads and billionaire parasites don't understand when enough is enough. The people of the world are literally groaning under the weight of their greed. Wealth inequity is worse than it has ever been and no matter what is said or done in the public arena, this keeps getting worse.

I'm deeply concerned about the future of this republic, and in the short-term very alarmed about our ability to weather the upcoming recession, which to my mind will be as bad or worse than the Great Recession in '08 and '09.

[TreasonousBastard]

22. Izzat so? We should just write them and their opinions off? What if...

extreme left vs. extreme right is one reason why they don't vote?

[walkingman]

3. "Independents are on the fence overall" - I've always said that anyone calling themselves an

Independent doesn't have "core" beliefs. There is such a huge difference between the parties these days that I find it hard to believe that anyone could be on the fence in a national election. They either do not keep up with politics at all or are simply the kind of people that vote on who they think will win without any reasoning. I personally find independents a very strange voting block. I know they like to say they "vote on the person" but that tells me they do not understand the American political system.

[PatrickforO]

20. Your post reminds me of the old Mugwumps

Here's a nice toon:

[walkingman]

21. Thanks, that's a good one. Made me laugh which is rare of late!

[NRaleighLiberal]

6. Independents by definition are always on the fence....they are a pain in the ass (pun intended)

Disconnected, ignorant, narcissistic, stubborn - take your pick

[turbinetree]

7. What the hell do these "independent's' need.......................a box of crayons

and someone to explain the facts to them.....................sitting on some fence during a national crises, is not a option.....................this is BS.....................maybe they should really take their head out of there collective ............................fill in the blank...........................there is not one question on the Mueller report.....................or if they believe that Donald J. Trump................................is a felon.............................

Why not have a poll....................with questions like:

There is evidence that the jerk presently in the white house broke campaign finance laws......................do you think he should be in the white house...........................

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. +1

[empedocles]

8. Another dimension to the 'Americans Not Sold On Trump - or Democrats'

is that the poll compares the individual trump to Democratic policies - not apples to apples at all.

trump is unpopular, and he compares Republicon policies [the economy] to Democratic individuals, the indivduals who identify as the Squad.

That tactic is working well for trump.

[PatrickforO]

11. Interesting observation. I'm sure you saw Mr. Scorpio's earlier post

but if not here's a link.

Well worth reading: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12302230

[DavidDvorkin]

10. Let's see how they feel when we have a nominee.

[LeftTurn3623]

13. The breakdown of this poll proves one thing

As a country we are not middle/lean right - This is a left leaning country and I'm sick of the media making it sound like the below ideas are out of touch with the mainstream.



There are areas in which Democrats' policy proposals are on solid footing with the overall electorate:
-- Requiring background checks for gun purchases or private sales (89% say it's good idea)
-- Medicare for all who want it, presenting it as an option (70%) rather than doing away completely with private health insurance (41%)
-- Regulating prescription drug prices (67%)
-- Providing a pathway to citizenship for immigrants in the U.S. illegally (64%)
-- Investing in so-called green jobs and energy efficient infrastructure (63%)
-- Increasing taxes on those making more than $1 million (62%)
-- Legalizing marijuana (63%)
-- Banning assault-style weapons (57%)
-- Raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour (56%)

[Proud Liberal Dem]

14. The issues that poll lower

by and large are ones that haven't been talked about much or are definitely more polarizing (i.e. reparations). I know that Yang is running on the UBI (but he's nowhere near likely to win the nomination). Who's running on reparations? BTW I'm not pooh-pooing any of these ideas, just saying that they are outliers right now in terms of policy issues that most Democratic candidates are outwardly pushing. I feel like this article is saying one thing while meaning another, which is to say that they are making most of the main Democratic policy positions seem like they're far less popular than they actually are- at least the ones most candidates are embracing. And yes, Indies are frustrating as hell!

[sacto95834]

15. If you are still undecided...

I can only shake my head. What is there to think about? Just look at the behavior of the Occupant of the WH. If you aren't horrified already, what is it going to take?

What exactly are these undecided Americans looking for in a candidate? The Democrats are offering 20+ choices all are different. What are they looking for? I'm beginning to the if Jesus or Buddha ran as a Democrat it wouldn't be enough.