O'Rourke and Biden, signaling presidential bids, would infuse centrism into Democratic field (WP)

[dalton99a]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/orourke-and-biden-nearing-a-potential-collision-course/2019/03/12/299d1288-44c4-11e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html

O’Rourke and Biden, signaling presidential bids, would infuse centrism into a left-leaning Democratic field
By Matt Viser
March 12 at 6:27 PM

Beto O’Rourke is youthful and has little political record to run on. Joe Biden is older and has a decades-long history, featuring both successes and mistakes. O’Rourke brings a viral energy to his campaigns, while Biden, still figuring out how to harness social media, specializes in the traditional stemwinder.

Both men are sending increasingly strong signals they will soon enter the presidential race — additions that would instantly reshape the Democratic primary debate. While left-leaning candidates have drawn the bulk of the attention so far, the popular former vice president and the charismatic former Texas congressman share one key characteristic: a more centrist brand of politics that could appeal to an untapped portion of the party electorate.

In targeting many of the same voters, O’Rourke and Biden could be on something of a collision course. They would present the party with the sharpest test yet of whether it wants an exciting but untested face or a more traditional, experienced standard-bearer to take on President Trump. And both would be trying to lay claim to the Obama legacy, with Biden touting his eight-year partnership in the White House and O’Rourke attempting to tap into the cultural and generational zeitgeist as Barack Obama did more than a decade ago.

Biden, speaking Tuesday to the International Association of Fire Fighters, was greeted with chants of “Run, Joe, run!” He told the union members he appreciated their energy and urged them to “save it a little longer — I may need it in a few weeks.” He added jokingly, “Be careful what you wish for.”


Katie Baron decorates a Beto O’Rourke mural with items from the South by Southwest festival before taking a photo Friday in Austin. Baron commissioned the mural to be done by artist Chris Rogers. (Matt McClain/The Washington Post)


Joe Biden told the firefighters union members he appreciated their energy and urged them to “save it a little longer — I may need it in a few weeks.” (Melina Mara/The Washington Post)


Former Texas congressman Beto O’Rourke takes a photo with a traveler as he arrives at Austin-Bergstrom International Airport on Friday. (Matt McClain/The Washington Post)


Former vice president Joe Biden takes a selfie with members of the International Association of Fire Fighters. (Melina Mara/The Washington Post)


O’Rourke with family members at Austin’s Paramount Theatre on Saturday for the screening of the documentary “Running with Beto.” (Matt McClain/The Washington Post)


A Biden supporter at the firefighters gathering Tuesday. (Melina Mara/The Washington Post)

[TexasTowelie]

1. Beto is a centrist?

That man should be primaried.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

2. Voters are demanding a more progressive agenda, as Bernie is advocating... centrism is SO yesterday.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[CrossingTheRubicon]

4. Liberalism is progressive, socialism is not.

Joe Biden stands head and shoulders above Sen. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt) whose campaign will be over electorally on Super Tuesday.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. Democratic Socialism, i.e., Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, veteran healthcare programs...

housing assistance programs, food stamp programs, college assistance programs, minimum wage legislation, corporate tax overhaul, corporate regulation, breaking up "too big to fail" banks, not taking corporate PAC money etc etc, IS progressivism. That's where Bernie stands head and shoulders above EVERYBODY, not just Joe. The only one who's close is Elizabeth, which is why...


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[CrossingTheRubicon]

19. Repeating the Big Lie that Social Security and Medicare are "Democratic Socialism"

doesn't make the mendacity any more truth by the repetition.

Liberal programs are progressive, but they are not socialism.

Socialists are attempting to steal credit for liberal Democrat achievements and to gaslight naive people about the true nature of socialism.

There has never been a successful socialist state, one that has both increased prosperity and respected human freedom and civil rights. Since there are no positive examples to point to, it seems the lastest grasping attempt to "re-frame" a failed ideology is to steal the legacy of the Liberal Democratic Party in the United States and the liberal Social Democracies.

It is an intellectually dishonest move to cover for an ideology that has a lot of blood on its hands.

[Gothmog]

32. I do not think that sanders is electable

If sanders is the nominee, trump will easily beat him. Electability is my key issue and I personally do not believe that sanders is electable

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

73. FYI, Bernie capitalizes his last name... it's "Sanders"

And as you will soon see, Bernie is VERY electable... which is why he's leading in the first two primary states.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Gothmog]

78. You do know that New Hampshire and Iowa do not represent the demographics of the party???

sanders was trailing Biden in Iowa according the polling that I have seen. I doubt that sanders will get over 15% in South Carolina or in any of the Southern States on Super Tuesday.

I really doubt that sanders is electable and I truly believe that trump would beat sanders in a general election match up

[George II]

83. New Hampshire has 1.2% Black residents, Iowa 3.3%. Both have white populations about 95%.

[Gothmog]

84. You cannot win the Democratic nomination without strong African American support

I believe that sanders will get far less African American support this cycle compared to last cycle.

[NurseJackie]

86. Oh brother!

FYI, Bernie capitalizes his last name... it's "Sanders"

[Old Vet]

90. As one who followed Betos run, Hes the only one that could possibly win TEXAS state wide IMHO

But these circular firing squads gotta be dealt with.

[Gothmog]

87. Joe Biden's And Bernie Sanders's Support Isn't Just About Name Recognition

From Nate Silver. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-and-bernies-support-isnt-just-name-recognition/

Sanders, conversely, has a high floor of support and a lot of enthusiasm behind him, but that’s tempered by having some Democrats — 22 percent in the Iowa poll — who have an unfavorable view of him. If that number holds at 22 percent — and the other 78 percent of Democrats would consider voting for Sanders — he shouldn’t have a lot of problems. Still, 22 percent is high as compared with the scores for candidates such as Biden, Booker and Harris, and Sanders will face a new type of scrutiny for him as one of the frontrunners who is taking fire from all sides, instead of being in a two-candidate race as the underdog against Clinton.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

13. Well, good thing nobody is advocating socialism.

Unless you don't like the things Democratic Socialists want in place. And if you do, how about you give a specific policy they are advocating you don't like. Instead of, you know, red scare BS.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

20. LOL. Sure, Democratic Socialists aren't advocating for Socialism.

Now I've heard everything.

[JudyM]

36. Or maybe haven't heard anything.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

45. They do not want the US to be a full socialist country.

The amount of red scare that comes up is ridiculous. We have socialism in our system now. Do you hate that, too.

[TwilightZone]

58. Actually, some of them do.

The Democratic Socialists of America do propose to overthrow capitalism and install socialism. Some of them don't think Bernie is socialist *enough* to accomplish that goal.

"Yes, if we throw ourselves into the Bernie 2020 campaign, we may be able to recruit more members, perhaps thousands. We have to ask ourselves, however, what sort of an organization will we be recruiting them to? The Bernie 2020 campaign will have a profound influence on DSA, emphasizing political work over building the social movements. We will find that we have created an organizational culture dominated by illusions of influencing or capturing the Democratic Party, rather than developing strategies for the destruction of the two-party system and the overthrow of capitalism"

https://www.dsausa.org/weekly/a-dialogue-should-dsa-endorse-bernie-sanders-before-the-convention/

[Cuthbert Allgood]

63. And they have who, exactly, running in the primary?

This isn't Sanders, or Warren, or even AOC. So....

[TwilightZone]

67. Your assertion was that democratic socialists don't want a society based on socialism.

That assertion is false.

[radius777]

70. DSA has voted to endorse Sanders. /nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

76. Well said!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

75. I love what Bernie is advocating as a true blue Democratic Socialist...

it's what voters in this country want!!



Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Mr Tibbs]

41. Sanders is progressive

Labels be damned

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. Bernie's the best representative of progressivism the Democrats have... so damn proud of the

Last edited Wed Mar 13, 2019, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)

leadership he brings to the Democratic Party.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Mr Tibbs]

80. His decades old policy positions are becoming Democratic mainstream

The establishment candidates now must adopt Sanders positions if they want to have a chance.

That is success.

[George II]

85. What has Sanders actually done as far as "leadership"?

[TexasTowelie]

9. Tell that to Sema Hernandez.

She is the Democratic Socialist that Beto defeated in the Texas Senate primary in 2018.

[George II]

26. No they're not. On what do you base your statement?

[Renew Deal]

27. Who voted?

Sanders and Warren will not be the nominee. Might as well plan for someone else.

[Mr Tibbs]

42. And if Sanders is the nominee, what will you do?

[Renew Deal]

44. We'e been through this before.

It won't happen.

[Mr Tibbs]

48. You are ducking the question

Which leads me to suspect you would ___ ____ ___ ___.

[Renew Deal]

53. I will support the Democratic nominee

Just like you voted for Hillary in 2016.

[Mr Tibbs]

56. Awesomeness

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

88. Vote for Bernie... what else?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[workinclasszero]

64. No kidding

Let's get these candidates front and center and explain to the struggling electorate why we can't have Medicare for all, 15 dollar minimum wage, a green new deal oh but but 7 or 8 billion a year for our obscene defense budget is a good thing!

Huge corporations like Amazon that rake in tens of billions of dollars a year and pay ZERO taxes and get MILLIONS in refunds from the government while treating their workers like shit!

While people driving for Uber on the side to make ends meet pay more in taxes this year than the richest man in the whole #$%^ world Jeff Bezos!!!


Let them lay out their plans for a retreat to the middle that will only benefit one type of citizen in the country...the 1%!

I see that many of these people have already retreated from medicare for all after saying they were for it. Isn't that called gaslighting?

I eagerly await this corporate funded headlong retreat to the middle, bring it on because the voters ain't having it this time!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Heard him a handful of times. He is a progressive. WaPo

Lazy research

[Cha]

3. I want the Team who can beat the anti-Christ.

Biden, speaking Tuesday to the International Association of Fire Fighters, was greeted with chants of “Run, Joe, run!” He told the union members he appreciated their energy and urged them to “save it a little longer — I may need it in a few weeks.” He added jokingly, “Be careful what you wish for.”

[sandensea]

30. +1

Too much is made sometimes of the policy differences between Joe, Bernie, Kamala, Liz, etc.

They are mere nuances compared to the banana-flavored, pseudo-fascism being offered up by today's GOP - and Cheeto in particular.

I happen to think having a woman run against Idi Trumpin would be both a smart choice and a strong message.

But any of these fine candidates would do - except Gillibrand (who has no chance anyway).

[Mr Tibbs]

49. "banana-flavored, pseudo-fascism"

Love it!

[sandensea]

51. Why, thank you.

It is what it is.

The man's like a cross between Mussolini and Idi Amin.

[Mr Tibbs]

66. I've always said he is too much of a buffoon to be a Hitler

He obviously tries to emulate Mussolini.

It's perfect.

[David__77]

5. I'm glad that a pro-Medicare for all candidate can be called "centrist."

Not New Democrat-style “centrism.”

[Garrett78]

6. In spite of his voting record, I don't think O'Rourke will run as or be perceived as a centrist.

That's not to say O'Rourke and Biden (and others) won't be competing for some of the same voters, because of course they will be.

O'Rourke will likely hurt Sanders more than anyone else by attracting a large chunk of the youth vote.

[Mr Tibbs]

50. He ran as a Centrist against Cruz

He said he would "Work with the other side (Trump Republicans) to get things done". A very scary thought to most thinking people.

[radius777]

68. He also called for Trump's impeachment. /nt

[Mr Tibbs]

69. And kudos on him for that

[andym]

8. Articles on Beto suggest he is not an ideologue

So he is not necessarily a centrist or a "leftist," but rather he is willing to consider each position on a case by case basis using his own personal principles. That places him closest to Barack Obama who also did the same, which was why he was broadly liked across most of the political spectrum (except by Republicans).

[Mr Tibbs]

43. He lost to Ted Cruz

[BluegrassDem]

10. It's a sad day that Beto and Biden are considered centrist in 2020

That's how left our field has gotten. I'm so sick of this socialism crap being thrown at us everyday. Beto and Joe are solid liberals. I can't believe being an old fashioned liberal is considered too moderate in 2020!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

14. JFK would be called a socialist today.

Hell, Eisenhower's tax policies would get him called a socialist today.

What's sad is that we have moved so far to the center that old school liberals are called socialists.

[Nanjeanne]

23. SS and Medicare were called Socialist. Heck even Obamacare - the least socialist

policy ever was called Socialist.

Trying to avoid that label is ludicrous. People support all the “Socialist” policies already enacted by Democrats and those currently being proposed by the Democratic candidates.

Communication skills and consistent intelligent messaging is more important than worrying about what the Rs will term anything that’s good for the American public.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

47. ...

[George II]

28. Neither would be called socialists today.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

46. 90% top marginal tax rate?

People on here thought AOC was crazy for asking for 70%.

[radius777]

71. Those were depression era policies

enacted because the economy had fallen apart and we had to pay for the war.

JFK was a pro-business centrist; Bill Clinton patterned himself after his hero JFK.

Currently the economic fundamentals are fine, mainly due to Obama.

More importantly, we now live in a globalized high-tech economy where companies can more easily relocate their capital and operations if taxes/regulations become too high.

"Democratic" socialism is doomed to failure because it can't force anyone to do anything.

A strong middle class can only be achieved via a partnership between gov't and business, with strong regulations and safety-nets.

[RandiFan1290]

11. Not interested in anyone weak enough

to vote for the Iraq invasion.

[Nanjeanne]

15. I can't imagine Biden inspiring anyone under age of 35 to vote for him.

[emulatorloo]

16. WAPO: Polls say Biden's age isn't necessarily hurting him with young Democrats

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/12/05/polls-say-joe-bidens-age-isnt-necessarily-hurting-him-with-young-denmocrats/

Polls say Joe Biden’s age isn’t necessarily hurting him with young Democrats

<snip>

Beyond party officials, does early polling show that Biden has a problem with younger Democratic voters?

<snip>

Early 2020 polls cast doubt on the idea that Biden is destined to fare poorly among younger Democrats. A Washington Post-Schar School poll of battleground congressional-district voters in the 2018 midterms found that younger and older Democrats were about equally supportive of Biden as the party’s 2020 nominee. Among voters who supported Democratic House candidates, 35 percent of those ages 18 to 34 said they would like Biden to win the party’s 2020 presidential nomination, identical to his 35 percent support among Democrats age 65 and older.

<snip>

——-

[Nanjeanne]

21. Midterm poll from 2018 isn't going to reflect the preference of young voters now that

there are actual candidates.

[emulatorloo]

25. That's your opinion, and it could well be wrong

As your opinion it is based on conventional wisdom, not concrete evidence. This polling indicates Biden’s age won’t hurt him with young voters. You say that’s wrong simply because you don’t like the polling results.

[Nanjeanne]

35. Oh thanks so much for telling me what my opinion is based on. Can you tell me what I'm going to

want to eat for dinner too?

[emulatorloo]

37. You argue the poll is old/irrelevant, yet new polls still show Biden at the top.

It isn’t really logical to assume Biden is losing younger support.

You don’t need get so defensive, everybody has opinions. It is a discussion board, we share our thoughts and opinions and discuss them.

I hope whatever you have for dinner is delicious and satisfying, and you are able to share it with with people you enjoy being with.

[JudyM]

38. Biden may be at the top because more progressive Dems have multiple choices, just a hunch.

That being said, I’m interested to see how centrist Biden’s pitch will be. I’m guess he’s going to be leaning a bit more to the left than he would’ve before. He’s watching what’s happening right now and taking notes.

[emulatorloo]

39. Yes, agreed that is quite possible

It is going to be an exciting primary! Many great candidates

[Nanjeanne]

40. Jeez. I said the poll was from midterms (it is) and said it may not reflect what people think now

that there are actual candidates in the race (also true).

I don't believe I said it was old or irrelevant (although I do believe it probably isn't accurate any more). But I do believe I simply stated my opinion, which I believe is what you say a discussion board is. And I don't think anywhere in a real discussion is there a place for someone to tell me how I came to those opinions - particularly someone reading my two little sentences.

I'm sorry that you perceive things that aren't exactly in line with your thought process as defensive. I'm also sorry you can't seem to differentiate between stating your own opinion and then letting someone else state theirs (my version of conversation) and your version of conversation which appears to be telling them what they think. Sharing OUR thoughts and opinions. Not declaring what other people's thoughts are.

And thanks for your input regarding dinner - it's actually going to be a simple large salad with some roasted chicken. I don't think it will be overly satisfying as my husband and I leave for Rome in a few weeks and are saving up calories for our yearly trip for pasta and gelato. But we always share meals with people we enjoy.

[oasis]

17. Exciting array of pix. K and R

[emulatorloo]

18. Tiring of the dumbass labels from msm

Apparently anyone not named Bernie Sanders is a “centrist” in their feeble brains.

[Amimnoch]

22. What strange times we live in when THIS is "Centrist"

Beto O'Rourke on the issues:
http://recent.ontheissues.org/TX/Beto_O%60Rourke.htm

-Pro Choice
-Pro Women's rights.
- Pro environment
- Pro GLBT rights
- Against corporate political spending and called it out as not protected free speech.
- VERY pro-Education (a cornerstone issue)
- pro labeling of genetically engineered food.
- Pro auto voter registration
- Wants campaigning finance to be restricted to tax dollar use.
- anti photo id requirements for voting to protect voters rights, especially the rights of minorities.
- Opposed to repealing the ACA, supports expanding it.
- Supports DREAM act.
- Opposes requirement to physically leave the US to apply for citizenship.
- supports raising the minimum wage.

Biden on the issues is VERY similar. Much larger, and established record.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

True, neither of these fine gentlemen are in the "burn down Rome, we're going to run a revolution" camp, but "centrist"? No. It's a silly and ridiculous assertion.

[Garrett78]

24. Beto's actual voting record paints a different picture, though. But as I wrote above...

...I don't think he'll run as or be perceived as a centrist in spite of his voting record. But I guess that will depend on how much his competitors highlight his many votes in support of the Republican position.

[emulatorloo]

29. As I wrote above, MSM seems to want to label any candidate not named Sanders a "centrist"

Lots of Beto’s votes “with Republicans” were procedural votes.

Additionally you know how intellectually dishonest David Sirota et al claims were that Beto is in ‘the pocket of BIG OIL’.

They deliberately misrepresented Open Secrets data, and pretended that INDIVIDUAL donations were corporate donations.

[Garrett78]

89. The big oil stuff has certainly been dishonest, but the fact remains that Beto's voting history...

...is more than twice as supportive of the Trump position as that of his rivals for the nomination. 538 allows one to view all of the times any member of the House or Senate voted either for or against legislation supported by Trump. Beto is over 30%. By comparison, Elizabeth Warren is around 12%.

That could potentially become a problem for O'Rourke, though I doubt it will derail his campaign. I don't think he'll get the nomination, but I'd say he has better odds than most.

[Renew Deal]

34. There are people trying to set up a left wing tea party

And for those people, the chaos style of the republicans is the plan.

[Gothmog]

31. I like Biden and Beto for this reason

Electability is my key issue and both of these candidates can beat trump

[Mr Tibbs]

52. Beto couldn't beat Cruz

Biden will get no love from voters under age 45. Seen as establishment.

The old model no longer works.

[Gothmog]

54. Beto is far more electable compared to sanders

sanders is simply not electable. There are far too many real democrats who have long memories and who will not forget or forgive

[Mr Tibbs]

55. Beto still lost to Cruz

Cruz tried to outlaw masturbation.

God help us.

[Gothmog]

57. Texas went for Romney by 16% and trump by 9%

Beto got the margin down to 2.6% without any help from the top of the ticket (the state party really wanted one of the Castro brothers to run for Governor but they both declined). Texas is turning blue and Beto did an amazing job.

Normally Texas Democrats get killed in mid term elections but we flipped two congressional seats and a number of county seats. Texas is turning blue and there will be even better turnout in a presidential year.

Texas will turn blue but it takes a great deal of hard work.

Beto is far more electable compared to sanders. I doubt that sanders will break 15% in Texas on Super Tuesday

[Cha]

74. So? Beto was close in Texas

to beating Ted Cruz.

[Gothmog]

79. Yes despite having a weak candidate for governor

Greg Abbott outspent the Democratic candidate for governor by $60 million. I like Lupe but she was weak. If Beto had some support at the top of the ticket, he could have done better.

The Texas State Party pushed hard to get one of the Castro brothers to run for governor. Now, there are some at the state party who are not happy with the Castro brothers.

[Cha]

82. Interesting to know, Goth.. Gracias..

The fact that "cruz beat Beto in Texas" by small percentage is not a good talking point for the anti-Beto crowd.

[Gothmog]

92. This is interesting

Link to tweet

[Cha]

93. Gracias!

[TwilightZone]

59. Texas isn't the entire country.

Your assertion is irrelevant and, frankly, a little silly.

Bernie couldn't beat Hillary on a national scale so should he have not bothered running again?

Something tells me your logic doesn't extend that far.

[andym]

61. Not sure which Democrat could have beaten Cruz in Texas

Do you think Bernie Sanders could have beaten Cruz there? Joe Biden? Who? That said I'm not sure any Democrat will carry Texas in the Presidential election.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

62. Trump couldn't

beat Cruz in Texas.

[Gothmog]

91. Beto might have won Texas last November if it was a presidential contest

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

94. Here is a good explanation

Link to tweet

[WeekiWater]

33. It would even out our field well.

From Biden to Warren really does cover the main spectrum of our party.

I think Beto will be an interesting one. More along the style of Obama. Personal views further to the left than he would govern. Lots to be seen with him.

[Faux pas]

60. Centrists

Appeasers. Anything to bow to the right and to fuck the rest of us.

[workinclasszero]

65. Yup

The well off and comfortable vs the working poor just barely holding our heads above the water.

Not to mention we have 11 or 12 years to do something radical to slowdown climate change before the globe turns into a hellscape but yeah lets all hold hands and pretend nothing bad is gonna happen. That's what a run to the center will get us.

It will get Trump reelected also.

[Gothmog]

72. I do not want to see trump re-elected because we put up a weak unelectable nominee

Electablity is my main criterion. I do not want to nominate a candidate who can not win the general election

[LakeArenal]

81. Biden remains the most qualified both nationally and globally...

Biden/Beto 2020

No labels for me.. except "Democrats"...that's the label.


Show your taxes Bernie and see how it goes then....