"They are fearful that Kamala Harris will put Trump in his place"

[bigtree]

Link to tweet

from Vanity Fair:

“She’s Dangerous”: GOP Insiders Fear Kamala Could Be the Next Obama
thread: https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287212024

[Kaleva]

1. Rec'd

[at140]

29. Obama came across as likable person, someone to have a beer with!

Can we honestly say the same about Kamala? I think Biden is much more likable.
And that counts big in elections. Majority of voters are not policy wonks. They vote
based on likability more than anything else.

[Kaleva]

30. There's been numerous videos posted here showing Kamala interacting with people

And the people seem to genuinely like her.

[wasupaloopa]

31. Both Biden and Harris are likable. Likability is not an issue.

[ucrdem]

50. What's up with the "hive"? Queen bee and drones?

I don't find this likable personally.

ETA: the reason I find it unlikable is that I find it degrading to be considered a drone in a beehive. JMHO, YMMV.

[bigtree]

53. it's a play on Beyonce's fan base

...a riff on the 'Bey' hive a social media endeavor, very popular among black Americans.

It's something that her supporters started; primarily, but not exclusively followed and promoted (at least initially) by black supporters...


The #KHive, Kamala Harris’s most devoted online supporters, explained
“Like how the #BeyHive stings, the #KHive is going to sting.” __Reecie Colbert

There are Kamala Harris fans, and then there are Kamala Harris stans. Reecie Colbert, a 36-year-old financial analyst in Washington, DC, considers herself to be firmly in the latter camp. She’s a vocal participant in a grassroots movement backing the 2020 candidate that takes its name from a moniker embraced by some of Beyoncé’s most fervent supporters. With Harris, it’s not the #BeyHive but the #KHive.

Eric Chavous, a 29-year-old attorney behind @flywithkamala, started his Twitter account after the 2016 election in order to boost Harris early on...The first documented use of the hashtag was on August 7, 2018, by the account @flywithkamala, which is run by Chavous.

Chavous said he starting using the hashtag after watching a panel discussion on a television show anchored by Joy Reid on MSNBC. “They were jokingly coming up with a term to call this growing legion of Kamala Harris supporters on social media,” he told Vox.

The term “hive,” as used in #BeyHive and #KHive, refers to a group of people who are committed fans of a particular person. “Beyoncé has the most loyal fan base in entertainment on the globe,” Chavous said. “And the #KHive is made up of dedicated fans of Kamala.”

read: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/25/20697783/khive-twitter-kamala-harris-2020-candidate-doug-hive

Link to tweet

..you'd think this display of Democratic unity and support would be seen as a good thing, but... here we are, ridiculing them.

[ucrdem]

54. Yes I get that. Notice that Biden doesn't call his supporters "cavemen." nt

[bigtree]

55. read what is written here

...the black supporters named themselves.

And they certainly don't deserve your ridicule, whatever your opinion is of the name THEY'VE chosen.

And, no, you don't 'get it.' This is nearly intolerable for me.

[ucrdem]

57. A performer's fanbase is one thing, the US electorate is a completely different thing.

I know this is DU, I like you, I used to like Harris, but I don't think selling her as a performer will help her.

[bigtree]

60. it's THEIR OWN nickname

...they're not 'selling' Kamala Harris with the moniker THEY'VE chosen to identify themselves.

Selling her as a 'performer?' I don't really know what you're trying to do here, but this is really offensive and wrong to be ridiculing these voters, these mostly black supporters of Kamala Harris, implying they're selling her as an entertainer. That's more than tone-deaf, it's an outright slur.

It doesn't serve our party, it doesn't help anyone. It's divisive, alienating and wrong. WE NEED THESE VOTERS!

Have we really come to a point where you can openly ridicule black culture with impunity here?

[ucrdem]

61. Good grief. nt

[bigtree]

62. yeah

...what the holy fuck?

I'm seriously asking myself what I'm doing here. NO ONE I relate with would tolerate this nonsense for a minute, and I don't think I should have to here.

[StarfishSaver]

71. +1

You're absolutely right.

(I just wanted to know you're not alone)

[bigtree]

94. it's appreciated

...feels like a mugging with people standing around watching.

[guillaumeb]

79. It is a good thing, but only if it leads to voting in every election.

If the younger generations vote, they can change the dialogue.

[bigtree]

81. it's everything we strive for as a party

...it's mostly young folk who have the wisdom and motivation to get involved in our political system.

And, THEY'RE ORGANIZING AS DEMOCRATS.

This is a no-brainer. Campaigns should be trying to replicate the spirit and organization of this spontaneous support group.

[guillaumeb]

82. Absolutely.

They need our support.

And if Kamala Harris is the key to energizing the next generation, so be it.

In my view, she is a very impressive candidate.

[mcar]

32. Yes, we can

Just watch her interactions with people and you'll see.

Plus, the idea of voting for someone bc you'd like to have a beer with him or her is a pretty ridiculous reason to vote.

[elleng]

51. She's certainly engaging,

and the 'beer' thing has always left me cold.

[mcar]

68. Lots of pols I'd like to get wine-y with

But it wouldn't be a reason to vote for them.

[elleng]

69. Ditto

[bigtree]

34. .

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Politicub]

70. I would say the same thing about Harris. She is tough as nails but

not cynical about it. And she has a great sense of humor. She takes time to talk to children and encourage them to not give up on their dreams.

I get the same feeling from her that I get from Obama: the sense that anything is possible in America.

I don’t drink beer, but I would love to have a glass or wine with her and hear her thoughts about this time in history.

[brush]

76. Kamala Harris will call SECURITY on trump's ass if he tries to stalk her.

[watoos]

2. I agree,

I believe that Trump does not want to run against Kamala. I believe he wants to run against Biden.

[emmaverybo]

35. With Biden polling the most points ahead of him in a match-up and given that Harris does not

have near the same chance of winning the GE?? Harris does not have the base support Biden does
or the respect and love of as many Americans. Nor does she have impressive presidential qualifications.

Clearly, Trump would much rather run against Harris than Biden.

[honest.abe]

77. Fast forward 12 months.

Things might look alot different.

[MoonRiver]

3. She would!

[brewens]

4. A lot of the fear and hatred of Obama, despite his being as moderate as they could have ever

hoped for, was that the next one might not be so nice. That of course being any other black person becoming President. They felt they could not let Obama succeed for that reason.

[bigtree]

6. I think that fear has been a consistent factor for black candidates, pols, others

...the resurgence of the old racial divisiveness coming to the surface again as the same fear many in the white majority had in the past of the potential of black Americans assuming positions of power over them - afraid, perhaps, they would act out the same prejudices which had been so arrogantly perpetrated against them.

It's a dwindling majority in the workplace, and a dwindling dominance in other institutions which is, ironically, producing a familiar insecurity in some Americans who identify themselves as white. Overall, black American reaction to a dominating majority has been remarkably gracious, patient, and forgiving over the decades. Some of these dominionists could learn from that as they reconsider their role in a more inclusive society.

[brewens]

8. Rush Limbaugh warned that if Obama was elected, it was going to be payback

time for whitey! That was pretty close to the direct quote I think.

[BeyondGeography]

5. That's a silly notion

HRC called him Putin’s puppet and she lost by 74 EV’s. There won’t be a better line in any of the debates next year.

This idea that there will be some magical come to Jesus moment when (or if) we face off with Trump that will slay him once and for all and shame his supporters needs to be discarded. We win by inspiring our voters and driving turnout. Harris could do that, but not if the main thing she has to offer is her debating takeout skills. If debates mattered that much Trump never would have happened because Hillary won all three last time.

[bigtree]

9. it's basically what every candidate is striving for

...and there will be many more opportunities to confront Trump outside of a debate.

You're limiting your view of Kamala Harris to some one-dimensional figure who is going to operate inside of a stationary box. We're over a year out from the general election and there will be myriad opportunities to take our case to the American people.

It's going to take someone who can put the inveterate demagogue in his place, repeatedly, and with stunning effect. No one is going to beat Trump without the ability to hit back, and hit back hard.

That's what this former prosecutor brings to the table, and she's demonstrated over her public career a willingness and ability to take on powerful interests on behalf of her constituents and win. That's what people want, someone who will fight for them, and not allow themselves to be limited by the shenanigans of republicans in the way of progress.

We need that kind of fighter in this campaign. Along with an impressive set of organizing and policy-making skills, Kamala Harris will press the case against Trump with the same passion and clarity she's brought to every campaign she's run - and she hasn't lost one yet.

[Kahuna7]

7. Total nonsense. Hillary laid it all out in no uncertain terms...

When you have other Democrats providing ammunition for the gop, voter suppression and Russian Active Measures at play, any Dem will be fighting an uphill battle.

[honest.abe]

10. That is the main difference between Harris and Biden.

I think both can beat Trump but do we want to win with a handshake or a kick to the groin?

[emmaverybo]

78. It was Biden who first took the fight to Trump. Harris may appear tough when she is ambushing

in a debate, using her prosecutorial skills to theatrical effect, but her record, unfortunately, shows many political concessions.

I think in time she may gain the experience and national profile to have a chance at the presidency, but right now her resume is on the thin side.

[democratisphere]

11. This is a setup. Know one when you see one.

Nothing about this rethuglicon claim is true.

[Princetonian]

20. I agree. Hillary lost & she has more gravitas in her pinkie than Harris does with her thin resume.

Plus Harris' checkered and red flagged history makes her unviable in a GE.

[paleotn]

26. I'll admit rethugs aren't normally truthful...

but occasionally they all have a broken clock moment.

[PunkinPi]

12. What she said...

Link to tweet

On her @Spotify podcast, @jemelehill asked me, “Do you think Donald Trump is afraid to debate you?”

K&R

[betsuni]

13. "No puppet. No puppet. You're the puppet."

Done.

[RazBerryBeret]

14. agreed, and

I think any of our candidates could and would put Trump "in his place"... I mean he has provided us with enough ammunition. FFS, I think I could put him in his place (haha).... as long as they are prepared for his petty personal insults, I'm more than confident anyone of ours can take him on.

[58Sunliner]

15. No, they aren't. She is no Obama.

And she will have to face a mountain of scrutiny just like Hillary, but hey, they won't be looking at her emails.

[bigtree]

16. she has exactly the same potential to energize black voters to the polls

...and black women, in particular.



South Carolina Sorority Sisters Out in Force for Kamala Harris
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128717440

She's run the 'scrutiny' gauntlet through several elections - hasn't lost a one.

[58Sunliner]

17. No she does not. She is not Obama.

If you have to keep using Obama to prop up your candidate what does that say?

[honest.abe]

18. I wouldn't call it a prop, just a comparison to help people realize her potential.

There are similarities.

[Skya Rhen]

22. Please list the similarities between Harris and Obama, that distinguishes both of them from the

typical candidate.

[honest.abe]

24. Smart, quick, witty, charming, confident, mixed racial background..

Mostly liberal with some moderate leanings.

Hows that?

[Skya Rhen]

25. So, these similarities distinguish her from the other candidates? Booker possesses the same.

[paleotn]

27. What?! We have two?!

Embarrassment of riches.

[Skya Rhen]

38. There is no embarrassment of riches as I, too, am black with a multiracial background and have also

been told that I am smart, quick, witty, charismatic and confident - which is why I completely understand why both Harris and Booker are admired by many - but I digress...

So are we now saying that there are two Presidential candidates, currently running, that can be compared to Obama?

[mr_lebowski]

33. Honestly if people don't see this for the trick that it obviously is, I'm scared come 2020 ...

Look, I really like Kamala. SF is my city, CA is my state. Proud to have her as Senator of my home state would be proud to call her POTUS

But IMHO, she is at best VP material at this juncture.

The Trump/GOP/GRU/NK/KSA/UAE axis of evil want her to be our candidate, and this is an obvious headfake.

They may be 'scared of her winning' in the sense that IF she somehow did, it would suck in their eyes (though Bernie or Liz should scare them more).

But they're not ACTUALLY scared that she is GOING to win.

Those are two different 'fears', if you will.

If Hillary couldn't beat Trump ... A liberal-leaning, Bay Area-based female PoC Senator ... is not beating him either.

Just MHO

[58Sunliner]

37. "The Trump/GOP/GRU/NK/KSA/UAE axis of evil want her to be our candidate,

and this is an obvious headfake." Could not agree more.

[honest.abe]

47. Did you read the article?

It doesnt sound like any kind of trick or game someone is playing to fake us she is the best candidate. She is obviously a talented intelligent charismatic politician that could generate alot of enthusiasm and these GOP strategists realize it.

[honest.abe]

36. Booker is good but hes not going to be the nominee.

Not sure what it is but he simply doesnt generate much voter interest.

[Skya Rhen]

40. But, but it's still early - the first votes aren't to be cast for another six months. Plus polls

are unreliable at this stage. They can change at any time...

[bigtree]

19. it's a reference to her ability to attract votes

...it basically the best reference we have available to gauge the reaction of voters to a black candidate, and Kamala Harris certainly shares that key characteristic which helped Barack Obama garner the presidency.

from the Center for American Progress:

According to the national exit poll, President Obama achieved victory by carrying 93 percent of African American voters, 71 percent of Latino voters, 73 percent of Asian American voters, and only 39 percent of white voters—

It doesn't appear that you and I are talking about the same political characteristics of her campaign and appeal. There is going to be a positive reaction from the African American community of voters to a black woman nominee, if she manages to secure that prize. It will most likely track the same level of support Pres. Obama got in his second term, with the novelty of the first black president somewhat diminished.

Kamala Harris will also have the added ability to attract women to the prospect of the first female president in the nation's history. Black women have played a prominent role in her support, so far, and I'd assume she'd fare at least as well, or even better among that group of voters than Barack did.

[58Sunliner]

44. Sorry-still not Obama. Obama campaigned on different issues in a different time.

You are trying to compare apples and oranges. She is not Obama. Obama focused on issues that effected everyone and he did not have the baggage Harris does.

"According to the national exit poll, President Obama achieved victory by carrying 93 percent of African American voters, 71 percent of Latino voters, 73 percent of Asian American voters, and only 39 percent of white voters(of voters who voted)"— that was 2012.
His initial support among whites 2008-"The Illinois senator won 43 percent of white voters (of white voters who voted), 4 percentage points below Carter’s performance in 1976 and equal to what Bill Clinton won in the three-man race of 1996." What was the percentage of registered voters who voted in 2008? 62.3% 2012?-57.5% Your percentages always have minimum of 2 variables.
Whites are the biggest voting block and usually the biggest % of the block that does not vote. The crossover is the youth vote.

And let me add-he had Michelle at his side, and Biden as the VP.

[bigtree]

49. no, she has advantages Barack Obama did not have

...Kamala Harris has executive experience (which mostly eluded Barack before becoming president), heading the 2nd largest justice dept. in the nation, second only to the U.S. Justice Dept..

[treestar]

65. that's very crazy

Obama had charisma and was that rare character that you do not see so many of and there won't be another one for 50 years.

[bigtree]

66. executive experience is 'crazy?'

...okay.

[treestar]

67. well that her executive experience

is all that compared to Obama's. He was community organizer, which is very good preparation for campaigning and the Presidency. Also she was not elected to an executive officer per say, the prosecutor is a different sort of thing. I don't see how she can be argued to be more qualified than Obama just for being elected AG. It's not as political. She does not have the charisma on his scale at all. Obama did not have to, nor would he have, resorted to the things she has.

[honest.abe]

73. Well I would say her experience as AG for the largest most complex state in the country..

ranks higher than a community organizer.. with all due respect to community organizers and President Obama.

[58Sunliner]

88. Yes, she has a past in executive experience, good and bad.

See we agree, still not Obama.

[StarfishSaver]

72. Women candidates either aren't "likeable" enough or if they are unquestionably likable

they're expecting to get by on their charm.

[bigtree]

75. it's insidious

...so many fall back to the way women have been regarded by male-dominated society and institutions in the past, so accustomed to assigning their roles, making arbitrary judgments about their potential for success.

So accustomed to dictating outcomes for women... it's a generational failure, I think, a serious slump taking advantage of the fact that women have never been afforded equal recognition, advancement, and pay, despite all of the sleight of hand mechanization of our political institutions.

[treestar]

59. which black voters would fail to get the the polls

for Biden but would for Harris. And against the Orange Madman.

[bigtree]

63. we're going to find out

[DesertRat]

21. GOP fears Harris because she'll increase (instead of suppress) Black turnout

And she'll appeal to Women.

[Skya Rhen]

23. What data are they looking at to form their conclusion of her increasing turnout among AA and women?

Every single poll has consistently shown Biden dominating in these demographics, well ahead of Harris.

This make the case for them fearing Biden, which is well-documented that they do.

[paleotn]

28. Hard for black women...

or women in general to identify with Biden. They naturally identify with Harris. That's my unsupported, gut feeling.

As for polling data at this point, back in the 2016 cycle, some of us actually hoped IQ45 would be the nominee. Thought he'd be a pushover. Rethugs couldn't be THAT crazy. His numbers were awful. My only point with that statement being the old investment boiler plate...."past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results." Actual data at this point is meaningless in predicting public opinion as far out as Fall 2020.

[Demsrule86]

42. Well folks in the three states we need to stop Trump ...WI , MI and PA do not identify with Harris..

While I would vote for her or any Democrat, she will not win a general.

[emmaverybo]

80. No they don't. Also, the black electorate does not vote solely on the basis of identifying with the

experience of a candidate. They look at qualifications and chances to win.

Harris, with two extremely well educated parents, living in Berkeley California, not having been bused by fed mandate, and basically not having devoted her career to supporting civil rights, is
far from a candidate the majority of the black electorate will rally around—despite your gut feeling, what you contend is no5 happening.

If Biden does well in the next debate, takes the gloves off and hits at serious lapses in her record,
she will lose some of the bounce she gained the first time around.

[paleotn]

85. So...

She's not black enough? Not oppressed enough? Not poor enough? Not happening? That's rather strong. Is that what your crystal ball is telling you? Did it tell you Clinton was a shoe in back in 2016? My gut feel isn't gospel, that's why it's just a gut feel. But neither is your crystal ball or whatever the hell makes you state..."not happening." And Take the gloves off? What does that even mean? He's going to verbally assault Senator Harris? An older, white guy attacking a younger, black female. Nice optics.

[emmaverybo]

87. It means he will fight back as well he should. He has never been known as a cut-throat

politician so he will fight fair. As I said, her record gives rise to questions and he can certainly raise
issues without verbally assaulting.

[Demsrule86]

41. She won't and the one the GOP types fear is Biden who will beat Trump in a possible landslide.

Harris isn't doing well because folks do not believe she will win a general...I don't. She will lose in the electoral college.

[ucrdem]

48. "I tossed Joe under the bus and you're next"

This will not play well in PA.

ETA: the quotation in the subject line is all mine.

[emmaverybo]

83. Exactly. Killer instincts have a down-side. As more of her DA and AG record is

revealed, there are those who will seriously question just what side of the coin she is really on and
some of the tactics she has used to rise, which, while there is no taint of corruption in these, present ethical dilemmas for some of us.

[Demsrule86]

89. I get it...won't play well at all.

[ucrdem]

39. This is another happy dance that she poked Biden in the eye.

Sure, there are people who love that sort of thing. They are called Republicans. And attacking your own is nothing close to attacking your actual competition. As for the Obama comparisons they are ridiculous. Obama hit the national scene with a memorable, inspiring speech; Kamala hit the scene by shooting metaphorically at her uncle. Not the same at all. JMHO, YMMV.

p.s. by this I mean the Vanity Fair article linked in the OP: "David M. Drucker is a senior correspondent for the Washington Examiner."

[bigtree]

43. it's actually a lifetime of standing up to those in power

...her 'fight' is much more substantive and results-oriented than her little tiff at the debate with Joe Biden.

Kamala 'hit the scene' decades ago as the first black AG in California's history. Her history didn't begin or end with her very correct dressing down of Biden.

What nonsense claiming that only republicans want someone to fight. Comparing her 'fight' for Democratic values, for her Democratic constituents, to republican chicanery is vile.

I'll remind you that Sen. Harris' most prominent moments this year came well before that tiny confrontation that has the Biden camp so bent out of shape for weeks now.

[ucrdem]

46. Kamala was elected AG in 2011. I voted for her and was glad she won.

Didn't hear a lot about her until it was time for her to replace Boxer, with Boxer's blessing. Not much of a race. Voted for her again. Again didn't hear much about her until it was time to run for yet another office. So that seems to be what she's good at. And now that I see how she does it, I'm reflecting on my earlier votes.

[Demsrule86]

90. Really, did she stand up to power when she fought to keep prisoners in California from having

gender affirming surgery? I have to say, I would vote for her in a general,but I am not particularly impressed with her...and won't support her in a primary.

https://www.gq.com/story/kamala-harris-2020-questions

[Skya Rhen]

74. Yes, I remember that speech. Obama is deeply admired because he is an inspiring, decent human

being that people respect and look up to. And despite the Republicans' exhaustive efforts to try to uncover a scandal, there was none that existed. He really made us proud.

There is only one Obama.

[highplainsdem]

52. They're much more fearful that Biden will beat Trump. GOP strategists would love nothing more

than to see Harris weaken Biden.

They can read polls. They can also read Trump's tweets and they know which Democrat worries him the most. Those strategists know who's the strongest Democratic candidate against Trump, and at this point Harris isn't even close, except in her home state of California in one poll, and in that poll Biden's still seen as most electable.

But if Harris somehow starts doing well enough that she looks like she could become the nominee, Republican strategists will come up with reasons why one of her rivals is a stronger candidate.

[ucrdem]

56. This. nt

[treestar]

64. Indeed this may be gaslighting

they will work against Biden getting the nomination as they know he can beat the Orange Bloviator

[Demsrule86]

91. I think so...look how well Biden does against Trump.

[at140]

92. well stated! nt

[treestar]

58. that is strange. Have they not noticed that their Orange Madman

has a charmed life? It is impossible to put him in his place. He believes he is the best, the bigliest, the most winningest being ever born.

[quickesst]

84. Looks like Beto was on Deck in March

I expect Whoever has the hot hand at the moment will be the focus. You have to wonder why they keep saying they hope Joe Biden wins the nomination even though he is the clear front-runner.


(Snip)
GOP Group is Terrified of Beto O’Rourke’s Popularity and Potential Candidacy
BY TODD NEIKIRK March 11, 2019

With so many Democrats running for the parties nomination, it’s fair to wonder who the GOP sees as the biggest threat. Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren all have their strengths and weaknesses.

The candidate who scares the GOP the most, however, may be former Texas congressman, Beto O’Rourke. According to Politico, Republican group, Club For Growth, is aiming to attack O’Rourke’s candidacy.

https://hillreporter.com/watch-gop-group-is-terrified-of-beto-orourkes-popularity-and-potential-candidacy-27125

[Tipperary]

86. Lol.

I do not believe they are in the least worried about Beto anymore, if they ever really were.

[quickesst]

93. If your candidate of choice....

..... produces a hot hand out of this next debate, you very well may be writing the same post, but it won't be Beto O'Rourke you're talkin about. Get my point?

[TreasonousBastard]

95. I don't know if this is gaslighting or confession, but reading the full article...

shows a lot of confusion and questioning out there within the opposition.

Of course they should be afraid of her-- she is fearless herself, has popular positions, and seems to be well loved everywhere she goes. All they have are insults.

And they dare suggest she's inexperienced unless it's "If you want to see what a President without relevant experience looks like-- just look right here".

The quibbling in this thread is not unexpected. But, note that Warren, Bernie, and Biden have long histories in the public eye, and Harris came out of nowhere to rise this fast. That means something.