Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumFree College and Debt Forgiveness, Not a Fan
I can't believe that this issue is a winner for a Democratic candidate. I think, in fact, that the average voter might resent it. Either he has already paid off his own debt or it doesn't apply to his life in that he doesn't have college bound children.
I would like to see a candidate call for a study as to why college costs are so expensive in the United States. Have they risen because of huge salary increases for administrators or the addition of expensive "services" or what? I don't know.
Not that it isn't a noble cause. I think that it deserves study.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Several are mentioned in this article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/09/why-is-college-so-expensive-in-america/569884/
The question is the subject of quite a few studies. Which one do you fancy?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yellowwoodII
(616 posts)Just one quote from the article:
"The international data is not detailed enough to reveal exactly which jobs are diverting the most money, but we can say that U.S. colleges spend more on nonteaching staff than on teachers, which is upside down compared with every other country that provided data to the OECD (with the exception of Luxembourg, naturally)."
The article is useful, but a big abstract and theoretical.
I think that more could be done to lower costs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
appalachiablue
(41,053 posts)college tuition was about 80% covered by tax revenue and 20% paid by individuals. This ratio flipped when Gov. of CA, Reagan, who opposed 'troublemaker' anti war protesters began withdrawing funds from Berkeley and other CA schools c. 1966. As president in the 1980s this new turn expanded nationally, and today students finance about 80% of tuition costs. Only about 20% are covered by tax revenue.
Three generations of my family graduated from public colleges with no debt (1915-1981). Tuition costs were affordable and we worked summer and part time jobs for extra income. This system disappeared by the later 80s and 90s. Among the world's developed nations only the US has this prohibitive and abusive college education system.
Other countries know that an educated workforce benefits societies, we once realized this but don't care anymore apparently. For 40 years US students educated during this predatory greedhead system have been hampered with student loan debt which causes them to delay or eliminate marrying, starting a family and buying homes. This is not the case in European countries, Canada and other advanced places. Total US student debt is now around $1.2 Trillion and it's appalling.
(My father graduated engineering college after World War II on the GI Bill. With that knowledge he then created a company which provided goods and employed many other workers. An example of the benefits to society and families).
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-happened-to-tuition_b_10240514
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
greymattermom
(5,751 posts)maybe a very low interest or even a no interest loan if a certain amount of income is paid regularly. That would be a big subsidy without making it totally free.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)states not subsidizing their universities any more - it used to be a matter of state pride.
Spending a lot trying to get top students was another - by spending on facilities that make the college nice but aren't necessary.
I believe paying too much to administrators was another.
Every college student needs a laptop and a phone now. That and the cost of technology might contribute, but that's only my own observation. You'd think it would make heavy and expensive textbooks obsolete.
Agreed there is no way they should use the term "free." Nothing is free, it is paid for by taxes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CrispyQ
(36,226 posts)By the time they graduate from college they will be life long debt slaves. Who profits from a culture like that? The corporate elite.
on edit:
Also, there's this: Infographic: Is Your State's Highest-Paid Employee A Coach? (Probably)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
yellowwoodII
(616 posts)Schools should never have been turned into sports centers. As a former teacher, I saw that the same small group of kids got all the honors. I once consoled a student who was tears because he just wasn't athletic. (Incidentally, that same student is today outstanding in an art field.)
Sports should logically have been relegated to the park districts.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)but these coaches typically are in programs that are net revenue generators for the universities. The smaller schools in the state typically are net sports revenue losers though.
Schools themselves (including professors) view students as chickens to be plucked. There pricing structure and ethics bear close resemblance to used car sales. I still remember the advice to my wife when she was in college to do her general electives first thus delaying going on the critical path for her major. If she would have followed that advice she would have been in school for 4 1/2 years at a minimum. As it turned out she basically finished in 3 1/2 (one class her final semester).
You are right about corporations having their snout in the trough. Just don't think college faculty and administrators are pure in this either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
exboyfil
(17,857 posts)of the inputs into the cost of education. For example professional labor is the largest component (faculty and administration). Professional services CPI is 382 (100 being in 1982-84) while the overall CPI is 256.
College completion has gone from 15% in 1970 to 35% today so more than twice as many people are going to college. This means on the same resource base approximately half as much money is available.
My state Iowa when I looked at this several years ago basically pushed the dollars taken from post-secondary and applied it to K-12.
Credentialing in business has created a seller's market for college degrees which has not helped the situation.
Colleges attempt to do a lot of things that aren't done by other country's educational systems (most notably sports programs which are revenue sinks for all but the most prestigious colleges).
Our system holds out the hope of avoiding early tracking for the future, but at the expense of relative open enrollment meaning lots of students that have no business being in college are there.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(12,626 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
yellowwoodII
(616 posts)K-12 is mostly compulsory.
But cost per student for K-12 is nothing compared to cost for college.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(12,626 posts)But here is the thing, social programs that are 'all in' are popular and unassailable. Social security and medicare remain strong and immune to GOP malfeasance because we all participate. They cannot attack these programs as 'welfare', they cannot divide us over who gets medicare and who doesn't.
Including everyone adds very little to the cost, there just aren't that many rich people. It makes a program universal and simple to administer. Nobody has to investigate your finances, nobody has to decide if you are qualified.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MichMan
(11,789 posts)There is no incentive for colleges to reduce tuition costs as long as students keep borrowing. Only when enrollment plummets will there be any serious attempts at making it cheaper.
Loan forgiveness and free tuition if anything will potentially drive costs even higher as students wont care what the costs are if they aren't responsible for paying them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided