What do y'all think about Michael Moore's post debate analysis (on MSNBC)?

[ecstatic]

Some of his comments off the top of my head:


- We need to draft Michelle Obama for 2020

- We need to impeach trump to win

- Ballot initiatives like legalizing marijuana will maximize democratic turnout

- Do NOT nominate a centrist

[BannonsLiver]

1. I think Michael can go fuck himself.

[comradebillyboy]

10. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[DemocracyMouse]

42. Did I miss something? Michael Moore has helped to expand mainstream media's "allowed topics"

[BannonsLiver]

45. Yeah, you've apparently missed the last 20 years of his career.

[comradebillyboy]

49. In my opinion Michale Moore is no friend of Democrats.

That opinion seems to be widely held here at DU.

[DemocracyMouse]

53. Did he use his 1st Amendment rights to suggest reforms to both parties?

Every movie I've seen of his has penetrated some important topics — like the need for prison reform, better food/diets for US citizens, unions mandated for all large corporations in Germany. The abandonment of workers by GM, etc.

[comradebillyboy]

54. Like he supported Ralph Nader in 2000 and said there was no

difference between Bush and Gore. He shits on Democrats way too much. He defamed Hillary all through the 2015-16 cycle. He did photo ops with Russian asset Julian Assange in the summer of 2016. Trust him at your own peril.

[susanr516]

26. Absolutely!

[Raine]

31. I TOTALLY agree. nt

[metroins]

40. Agreed nt.

[Cha]

43. There's that!

[Thekaspervote]

2. Michael Moore should go jump off a cliff!!

[ecstatic]

4. lol! nt

[susanr516]

27. That, too!

[JoeOtterbein]

3. Only one for me: "legalizing marijuana" nt

[W_HAMILTON]

5. I don't think about it -- I turned the channel as soon as he came on.

[elleng]

6. He tends to be right, whether we like what he says or not.

[still_one]

17. Let me ask President Romney about that

[revmclaren]

33. Thank you.

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[BannonsLiver]

46. +10000. While you're at it ask President Nader.

Moore said Bush and Gore were the same in 2000.

[Cha]

44. No he doesn't.. that's one of his

big problems.

[stopbush]

55. I remember when he predicted that the Russians would meddle in the election to help tRump win

oh, wait, he didn't predict that.

[Kahuna7]

65. Did he predict Russian active measures?

[CentralMass]

7. I don't watch MSNBC

[drray23]

8. He totally lost it. However the ballot initiative strategy

Is not a bad idea. The GOP has been pulling that trick for years on state and local elections to motivate their electorate with some success. In any case, it's more a tactical point than an actual strategy to win the election.

[ecstatic]

11. I agree! The blue counties/cities of red and purple states need to start coordinating

on this NOW.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. See #22. Almost half of the states don't allow for ballot initiatives at all.

[ecstatic]

35. What about county measures? Or are those restricted to specific

topics like tax hikes?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

39. Depends on the jurisdiction. But a county couldn't legalize weed if it's illegal in that state.

[Raine]

32. Repugs did the ballot initiative here in CA with prop 187

back in the 80s. It got their people out and they won that election but they've lost ever since and turned CA from red to blue. The law of unintended consequences, it's risky, you never know what will happen in the long run. Democrats could have the same thing happen and end up losing for decade's too.

[madaboutharry]

9. Michelle Obama doesn't like politics.

Obviously Michael Moore didn’t read Michelle’s book.

[JI7]

12. Michael Moore DOES NOT want Democrats to win

this is who Michael Moore was with on THE DAY of that Trump Tower Meeting on "adoptions"

[ecstatic]

16. Who's that?

[JI7]

19. the Rapist Julian Assange

[lapfog_1]

13. ok

1. Michelle is not going to run

2. Impeaching Trump will not remove him from office... I reserve judgement as to the need to do it for the gaze of history or risk a backlash (Clinton impeachment). I think they need to do it just from the fact that the constitution requires it... but I do worry it will amp up his base even more.

3. Ballot initiatives will help... but the issues have to be carefully tailored for each state.

[Drunken Irishman]

14. What makes Moore think Michelle Obama wouldn't be a pretty centrist politician?

[Horizens]

18. Exactly

Exactly

[betsuni]

41. And he said it should be someone completely outside of politics.

Eight years as First Lady in the White House is inside. Or maybe for some reason that only applies to Hillary Clinton. With Moore you never know. Also said it needs to be a street fighter. Michelle "when they go low, we go high" Obama a street fighter?

[JI7]

61. we have a "street fighter" who is already running. Kamala Harris has shown she is a fighter whether

one supports or agrees with her or not . she is still a fighter . i personally don't think some of it is helping her.

but the point is we already have a democrat who is running yet he ignores her. since she is one of those candidates the Russians are going after i'm guessing we wont be seeing him support her anytime soon.

[thesquanderer]

64. I think HRC was not a political insider from being first lady as much as Senator.

Though being Senator did very much come out of her being first lady.

That said, I don't see the great appeal of Michelle Obama as president. Though a step up from Moore's apparent earlier suggestion of Oprah.

I get the celebrity part. But Michelle may be almost as bad as Hillary in terms of how she is seen on the right, how she is vilified in some circles. And unlike Hillary, she hasn't really established any independent credentials. What's her experience actually doing things? What are her positions? The position of hers that I am most familiar with is that she doesn't want to run for president.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. What if Michelle Obama doesn't want to do it?

And she's made it very clear that she isn't interested in running for office.

Ballot initiatives like legalizing marijuana will not increase Democratic turnout; fewer people care about weed than he thinks. Some states - mine, for example (MN) - don't even have ballot initiatives.

Michael Moore has his head up his ass, as usual.

[still_one]

20. Last line encapsulates it perfectly

[JI7]

21. it's not like Moore actually wants her to run

he can pretend to support a democrat this way without having to support them knowing they have no interest in running.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. Michelle SHOULD run... she'd be the instant frontrunner.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. Not necessarily. Anyhow, and most importantly: She. Doesn't. Want. To.

She can’t be literally drafted and forced to run if she doesn’t want to do it, so it’s not going to happen.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. Doh, obviously, no one can be forced... but, they can be encouraged.

Maybe if enough people pushed the idea, she might be convinced that her country needs her... that's all I'm sayin.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

22. Almost half of the states don't have *any* initiative/referendum provisions.

https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum

[JoeOtterbein]

24. Are you all trying to change the subject? Or: Who cares what MM thinks?

Why not praise a Dem tonight instead? We just had a debate. Why all the inside hate instead?

[SMC22307]

25. He's absolutely right about legalizing marijuana and Dem turnout...

especially in a state like NC. Dems and "Indies" would FLOCK to the polls.

[BannonsLiver]

28. I could get essentially the same analysis from a tomato.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. NC doesn't have ballot initiative/referendum, along with 22 other states.

https://ballotpedia.org/States_with_initiative_or_referendum

[redstateblues]

30. His magical four point plan is laughable

I wonder how many times he announces that he picked Trump to win? He wears me out.

[fleabiscuit]

34. Who's he? nt

[BannonsLiver]

47. A relic.

A calcified mass of cow dung masquerading as a human being. An oxygen thief.

[LiberalFighter]

36. I don't pay attention to him.

[SaschaHM]

48. I wish he would do something else.

I admire his earlier work, but he got a 50/50 choice right in 2016 (because he was made Bernie lost the primary, not because he's some political savant) and has been coasting on that ever since. Ruining a Broadway stage was enough. Now he's being brought in to provide post debate analysis? Isn't 2019 already hellish enough?

None of his stuff is grounded in actually political data or polls and Michelle Obama isn't even interested. I also would wish on her half the sh*t that the nominee is going to face.

I wish he would just take these gigs to talk about the Flint Water Crisis.

[Quixote1818]

50. I think he says we will have a hard time winning to make sure people vote. nt

[betsuni]

51. Someone whispers "That's not true" when he says that only a revolution will defeat Trump.

He keeps saying the candidate needs to be a street fighter who inspires and is a beloved American. Moore has talked about how inspired he was and people were to vote for President Obama. And then what happened. Complain, complain, complain. Thanks, Obama. Nothing was ever good enough. Why did we have to hear about drone warfare every day and now nobody ever mentions it?

Bill Clinton was elected in a bad economy and tried for universal health care and two years later we had to watch Newt Gingrich in control of the House giving angry press conferences every day for years. Obama was elected in a bad economy and tried for universal health care and then two years later Republicans took control of the House. Seems to me that the economy is a better indicator than the person (not in Trump's case, that was racism causing an imaginary economic anxiety). And if a Democrat is elected and tries for universal health care there will be a freak out, why a public option ACA is the best idea. The freak out will be mild.

[Hekate]

52. I heard something completely different: 'Joe Lunchbox' hardly exists anymore as a % of voters...

.I heard something completely different: 'Joe Lunchbox' hardly exists anymore as a % of voters...

...if you're talking about white blue-collar voters. When you are talking about blue collar voters today, you are talking about women, POC, young people, and workers in the gig economy. He talked about the tens of millions (40 million?) young people that have come of voting age in recent years.

About 1/3 of white men voted for Hillary, and God bless them, welcome to the Dem Party. (Did I get that right?)

But in general white men had not been voting for the Dem Party for quite a few presidential election cycles already -- in any case, he did say that to sit around talking about Reagan Democrats and such in 2019 was (for the younger set) like us listening to our parents talk about Woodrow Wilson -- it just made our eyes roll back in our heads and go listen to the Beatles.

Reagan Democrats and their ilk are gone for us. Forget about trying to get them back. Focus in who our constituency really is TODAY: women, POC, young people, and our ilk.

I was impressed. Dear DUers, based on what you've been complaining about recently, I thought Michael Moore was not our friend any more. I almost changed the channel but hubby wanted to hear him. This time, I'm glad I heard him out.

[JI7]

60. because people were starting to call out his bs

he is still claiming sanders is the only one that can win yet Sanders does not have support of many women or people of color.

so now he comes up with this michelle obama crap. look at what betsuni said about how he talks about we need a street fighter. how the fuck is michelle obama a street fighter ? it's just bs he is spewing .

people are on to him so he says some things to appeal to those who can see through is shit.

i'm fucking tired of his shit.

[thesquanderer]

63. re: "Sanders does not have support of many women or people of color. "

Compared to other candidates in the primaries, perhaps. But potentially in the general? I think he would do very well with those groups vs. Trump.

[stopbush]

56. A few months ago he was pushing Oprah to be the D nominee.

Seriously.

[Mike Nelson]

57. He's interesting, but...

… Michelle Obama is not running for President and she's not interested
… We need to time the impeachment hearings so Trump can't claim exoneration
… Democrats are mobilized - witness 2018 - but this might work in some areas
… Center-left is the way to win

Moore's best point is the marijuana one... it could work in target areas... places with college towns, "older hippie" voters... I'm not sure those voters need more incentive, but it's worth exploring.

[MFM008]

58. I listened to him

In the 90s.
Im over that.

[wyldwolf]

59. Same thing he says every election cycle (I think he suggested Oprah instead of Michelle once)

- We need to draft Michelle Obama for 2020

In 2016, "Michael Moore: Oprah Winfrey or Tom Hanks for US president in 2020"

- We need to impeach trump to win

Evidence?

- Ballot initiatives like legalizing marijuana will maximize democratic turnout

How so? All Dems are potheads?

- Do NOT nominate a centrist

There are these things called primaries...