Biden says he was surprised there was so much criticism of Obama in last night's debate

[highplainsdem]

ABC News tweet, wiith video:

Link to tweet

[underpants]

1. That was a real head scratcher

[Cha]

71. Oh really?

[Raven123]

2. That was a great press conference!

[JustAnotherGen]

3. Me too Joe . . . me too

Neither he nor Obama need me to defend them - but if you are targeting either of them at that level - I question if you deserve my vote.

Instead of using time to take potshots at each other and the last President, how about you all tell us what you are going to do?

[CatMor]

4. I never expected that ...

as someone previously commented, who is advising these people.

[stonecutter357]

5. K&R

[ancianita]

6. Obama knew they'd do this to Joe. So Obama's not surfacing, just working his coalition's ass off

to sink Trump.

[asiliveandbreathe]

7. A great link for Joe Bidens campaign staff...and staff at the local level.

https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign_staff,_2020

You can actually link to other candidates staff as well....

[Cha]

72. Mahalo for the link, asiliveandbreathe!

https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign_staff,_2020

Link to tweet

[Sunsky]

8. I was too

What were they thinking? Huge turn off.

[Garrett78]

9. Immigration policy under the Obama Administration is worthy of criticism.

But candidates do need to be cautious about criticizing the very popular Obama.

[DeminPennswoods]

11. Exactly

Obama deserves criticism for not being forceful in addressing the Russian attack in the run up to the 2016 election, too. How does the President manage to get cowed by the likes of Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan into a milquetoast response?

[Garrett78]

12. Agreed. The fact that Republicans weren't going to go along with condemning Russia was...

...all the more reason to raise hell about what was happening.

[Cha]

23. Yeah, keep it up candidates.. keep railing

on President Obama and see how far that gets them when it's time to vote.

[DeminPennswoods]

24. Obama isn't perfect and pointing out

areas where his policy or actions left something to be desired is fair enough.

I understand you are a strong Biden supporter, but Obama's failures are part of Biden's legacy as VP, too. If Biden opposed those two actions, he could say so and explain.

[Cha]

27. Not what I said. Keep it up candidates.. Go for it.

[questionseverything]

33. plus 1

[Bradical79]

15. Yes, also the numbers are misleading

There's a time and place and manner for airing criticsms.

Also on his immigration policy, President Obama's immigration numbers are very misleading relative to past Presidents. The way deportations are counted and classified was changed, making it look like President Obama was much tougher on immigration, when in reality deportations dropped and were more fairly applied. At least more "fair" relative to other Presidents policies in a broken system (it's been inherently awful for a loooong time). More deportations at the border where prior they weren't even counted as formal deportations, and a reduction in deportations of established law abiding people that were holding jobs, raising families, and so on.

The reclassification allowed President Obama to portray himself as mich tougher on immigration, which helped him with support from some more conservative Democrats, and some "moderate" Republicans and Independents.

While Trump has deported less people, he has taken the biggest, cruellest problems with our immigration system and cranked them up to 11, while eliminating any remotely humane policy President Obama had.

P.R. wise, the somewhat misleading "tough on illegal immigration" narritive crafted by the Obama administration has come back to bite us a bit in standing up to Trump's policies.

I see it as a framing that was probably politically right for the time, but hasn't aged well. We also need a lot of pressure on our legislators to really fix the system to be as humane, effecient, and economically advantageous as possible. It's extremely difficult to fully tackle. We need enough control of government to pass big legislation, while also getting enough Democrats in Congress that are Liberal/Progressive enough to actually want to make a big change like that.

Really need to sell a new narrative to the public.

[emmaverybo]

17. Did they expect Biden to throw Obama under the bus by criticizing his policies? No. But in

order to score points, they desperately used Obama criticism to bash Biden. Cowardly in that they
knew he could not do so himself and dastardly because they would never themselves, leaving Joe
out of the equation, directly complain about Obama.

Glad this pathetic tactic is boomeranging.

[treestar]

43. DACA, prosecutorial discretion, trying to do

DAPA. Deporting newer arrivals who in fact had no permission to enter. Very generous to many undocumented immigrants in the US long term. You need to find out more about what Obama did re immigration.

[Garrett78]

47. Positive things don't negate negative things.

[treestar]

54. they don't?

so you focus only on the negative? Which was what? Deporting people who were illegally in the country? That is supposed to be wrong?

[Garrett78]

68. To say a policy is worthy of criticism is not saying everything about said policy was bad.

That should be a pretty easy point to grasp.

[treestar]

79. It's tough to make it a negative

to enforce the law as it is. We may be for a change, but to say it's a negative to enforce the law as it is - not reasonable. Like those people who think taxes are illegal. Is it wrong for the IRS to go after them?

[Cha]

73. They put them in perspective.. the

Positive accomplishments need to go Viral to counter all those who are intent on dragging on President Obama and VP Biden.

[onetexan]

10. Joe Scarb pointed that out this morning as well

The other candidates cant knock him on much so they went after O. Ridiculous.

[ancianita]

46. In fact, they didn't. They questioned HIS role in the immigration policy of O. That's it.

[Buzz cook]

13. I'm surprised that he was surprised.

In campaign you go after the front runner. Since Biden has wrapped himself in Obama's cloak some stuff aimed at Biden has to hit Obama as well.

More surprising to me is that the other candidates have not gone after Biden's senate record more thoroughly. So far busing and the crime bill are the only things people have brought up. Bur rhere are lots of things that may have looked good in the 80s or 90s that don't translate well today.

[Baclava]

16. Exactly, Biden wraps himself in Obama's cloak so tight its the only way in, thats why they attack

Its not going away either, they are just making the GOP ads easier by doing the oppo research for them

[Cha]

21. Biden was Vice President for 8 years

under President Obama.. he has a right to talk about his record.

Oh and those going after President Obama are doing so at their own peril.. so I say keep it up.

[lapucelle]

37. "Wrap oneself in X's cloak".

Interesting framing, given the fact that Biden held the second spot in the administration and was a trusted advisor for 8 years.

What does it mean "to wrap oneself in X's cloak"?

[Cha]

38. It's their way of Dissing Biden and

President Obama.. I've seen it.. ".. basking in Obama's glory.. " you can tell who really has a deep seated something against former VP Biden.

Mahalo, lapucelle!

[Buzz cook]

49. And there we have it.

Disagreements are attacks and all criticism is personal.

[Buzz cook]

48. Should be obvious

To put on the mantle of. Stand in stead of.

It means Biden is associating himself so closely with Obama, that an attack on one is also an attack on the other.

[lapucelle]

59. It's not obvious, but it is telling. N/T

[treestar]

55. Obama is so popular that being his VP is a real advantage

There is a lot of frustration with that and some complaining. How dare Biden use any of his advantages?

[Cha]

74. You get Biden's Tweet for that, treestar!!

Link to tweet

[treestar]

78. Thank you!

Cha!

[emmaverybo]

18. He answered perfectly well to the question as to whether he had disagreed with Obama and tried

to intervene in the decision. He said any recommendation he would have made to Obama was a private matter.

He has been public in saying he advised against going after Bin Laden, pointing out that Obama of course made his own decision which he says was the right one.

Biden also brought up the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act.

Maybe Biden overestimates the character of his rivals.

[Cha]

22. Biden obviously expects the best

in people.. I think you're right.

Thanks for your post, emmaverybo!

[Buzz cook]

25. And that is one of my problems with Biden

He seems to think that all he has to do is offer an attractive enough program to republicans and they'll play fair.

He expects the best in people and was willing to make a grand bargain over the budget which was so bad that we can only thank Zeus that the republicans rejected it. That was all Biden, Obama only acquiesced to it.

[Cha]

28. No you're Wrong.

[Buzz cook]

29. Well thanks

For the well thought out and detailed reply.

How many republicans voted for the ACA? Answer none.

[lapucelle]

39. He is wrong.

While Vice President Biden was publicly meet with legislators, President Obama was having secret back channel talks with Boehner.

To say that President Obama was "only acquiescing" sounds insulting

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904292504576481812376152944

[Cha]

40. "Insulting.. " is the

MO.

Mahalo, lapucelle!

[Buzz cook]

51. Don't post a story that needs a sign in.

Here's the opening graph.

On May 17, early in the hunt for a deal to cut federal deficits, White House negotiators gathered in the West Wing office of Vice President Joe Biden and contemplated ideas that once would have been considered heretical for a Democratic administration.

Not an auspicious beginning.

The grand bargain was Biden's idea.

[lapucelle]

58. Wasn't it your point that it was Biden's deal and that President Obama was only "acquiescing"?

White House negotiators gathered in the West Wing office of Vice President Joe Biden and contemplated ideas...

The idea that President Obama was an acquiescing figurehead in his own administration is insulting and factually wrong.

[Buzz cook]

63. Is it your point that Obama was willing to sacrifice Social Security

and Medicare for a slightly better short term budget deal?

[lapucelle]

66. My point is that neither narrative is supported by facts,

whether the narrative concerns the president acquiescing to a vice president who was really running the show or whether the narrative asserts that the Democratic president and vice president

[were] willing to sacrifice Social Security and Medicare for a slightly better short term budget deal

I reject that story line both on principle and on facts.

Final wrangling over defense spending almost sank the deal, but on Sunday afternoon, officials reached a compromise. At 8:15 p.m., Mr. Obama called Mr. Boehner to ask, "Do we have a deal?" There was a pause, then the president said, "Congratulations to you, too, John." White House aides listening in exhaled.

Over the final stretch, Republicans made clear that tax increases couldn't be in the mix for the initial cuts or triggers. And Democrats insisted that cuts to Social Security and Medicare benefits would have to be left out as well. The committee can look at those issues later.

Moments before Mr. Obama announced the long-awaited debt deal, Mr. Boehner began to sell it to his restive troops. "The White House bid to raise taxes has been shut down," he said.

Why would anyone frame these negotiations as a "willingness to sacrifice Social Security and Medicare for a slightly better short term budget deal" when that is clearly not the case.

And any suggestion that President Obama was simply a figurehead and somebody else's "yes man" in his own administration is frankly disgusting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904292504576481812376152944

[Cha]

75. Because that's what they do..

I've seen it on DU for years. It fit their little agenda.

Mahalo for the research, lapucelle!

[Buzz cook]

82. Thanks for dehumanizing me.

Making me an "other". Less than. Simply because I disagree with you.

[Buzz cook]

81. Bowles-Simpson

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/barack-obama-grand-bargain-social-security-expansion_n_5751f92de4b0eb20fa0e0142

Just a year into Obama’s presidency, the White House began to pivot away from fiscal stimulus and toward austerity. The president convened a bipartisan debt reduction commission in February 2010, co-chaired by Morgan Stanley director Erskine Bowles, a Democrat, and former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wy.), and charged it with forging a fiscal “grand bargain.” That became the catchphrase of choice on the Bowles-Simpson commission — and in budget talks in subsequent years — for a compromise agreement to reduce the long-term debt, through a combination of Social Security and Medicare cuts historically anathema to Democrats and revenue increases and defense cuts hard for Republicans to swallow.

People had to fight against that. Against the conventional wisdom that cutting SSI and Medicare were necessary anyway. And one of the mavens of conventional wisdom was Joe Biden.

I never said Obama was a figurehead, that's you reading your own prejudices into the conversation.

[lapucelle]

84. Didn't you say President Obama "acquiesced" to Joe Biden?

acquiesce
to accept something reluctantly but without protest.

******************************************************************************************

Why accept narratives from HuffPo pundits when you can read the the actual mission statement as expressed in the executive order?

Sec. 4. Mission. The Commission is charged with identifying policies to improve the fiscal situation in the medium term and to achieve fiscal sustainability over the long run.

Specifically, the Commission shall propose recommendations designed to balance the budget, excluding interest payments on the debt, by 2015. This result is projected to stabilize the debt-to-GDP ratio at an acceptable level once the economy recovers. The magnitude and timing of the policy measures necessary to achieve this goal are subject to considerable uncertainty and will depend on the evolution of the economy.

In addition, the Commission shall propose recommendations that meaningfully improve the long-run fiscal outlook, including changes to address the growth of entitlement spending and the gap between the projected revenues and expenditures of the Federal Government.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110805112303/http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-national-commission-fiscal-responsibility-and-reform

****************************************************************************************

As for the authors of the June 8, 2016 HuffPo opinion piece that you link to, didn't two of them go on to support Jill Stein in the 2016 general election?

[Cha]

83. EXACTLY, lapucelle!

[emmaverybo]

60. Obama sent Biden out to negotiate with Republicans. And so some important biz got done. In

one case, government shut down was avoided and the debt ceiling raised. You don’t really think
Biden would make any deals Obama didn’t approve do you?

[lapucelle]

61. The idea that President Obama was some kind of a figurehead is insulting.

Biden was part of Obama's team and a trusted advisor.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=225104

[emmaverybo]

62. Thanks for documenting the fact that Biden served Obama's directives at all times, and that

Obama, though open to advice when he asked for it, always followed his own counsel in the end, as Biden has gladly confirmed, using the example of his advising against the Bin Laden raid, and
Obama discounting his weigh-in. The punch line in Biden’s story is that Obama was in charge and that he, Obama, was right.

[Buzz cook]

64. I think the idea was Biden's

And no deal was made.

[emmaverybo]

65. The idea was never Biden's. And yes, it averted senate shut-down. Politico discusses in full:

Snip from Politico————————————————————

Biden’s proudest negotiation came after the Republican landslide in 2010, when George W. Bush’s tax cuts were about to expire and McConnell said he would shut down the Senate until they were extended. Obama didn’t want to extend the tax cuts for the rich, but he really didn’t want the lower-end tax cuts to expire when the economy was still fragile. Biden and McConnell hashed out a deal that extended all the Bush tax cuts until after the 2012 election, while injecting another $300 billion as an economic stimulus, including a new payroll tax cut for workers, extended unemployment benefits for victims of the recession and expanded tax credits for college students and the poor. By reopening the Senate, the deal also enabled the historic vote to repeal the ban on gays in the military.

Snip———————————————————————————-

Ultimately, though, Obama got most of what he wanted in that deal: It raised taxes on the very wealthy, preserved tax cuts for everyone else, avoided a brutal shock to the economy, and allowed the president to move on to other issues. Biden did what his boss asked and advanced the Obama agenda.. Bolding mine
——————————————————————————————-

The article explores the progressive challenge to Biden’s negotiating and is worth reading as a fair
discussion on both sides in terms of the past and Biden’s current stance.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/30/biden-bipartisan-dealmaking-backfire-226758

[lapucelle]

56. It is insulting to Pres Obama & factually wrong to cast him in the role of some kind of "yes man"

rather than as the head of his own administration.

Promise, False Starts Paved Road to a Deal
WASHINGTON—On May 17, early in the hunt for a deal to cut federal deficits, White House negotiators gathered in the West Wing office of Vice President Joe Biden and contemplated ideas that once would have been considered heretical for a Democratic administration.

snip=======================================================================

Over the next 10 weeks, the quest for a deficit-reduction deal would collapse three times because of the inability to connect spending cuts with tax increases. Democrats said they were willing to trim Social Security and Medicare, but only in return for tax increases. Republicans rejected the trade-off.

Ultimately, the two parties came up with a $2.4 trillion deficit-cutting deal Sunday that has significant spending cuts but no new taxes—and doesn't do much, at least for now, to take on spending on big entitlement programs.

snip=============================================================================

The Biden Talks
From the start, House Republicans insisted on deep spending cuts if they were to raise the government's debt ceiling and avoid a possible default. Negotiations began in early May with a group of six lawmakers led by Mr. Biden.

snip=============================================================

Few gave the Biden group, dominated by partisan lawmakers, much chance of success. Yet Mr. Biden persuaded participants to check their talking points at the door and focus on what they could agree on. The vice president and House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, political opposites in age and ideology, developed a good rapport.

But in a late-June meeting, Mr. Cantor felt the Democrats in the room were "ganging up" on him, demanding to go further on taxes. He refused. Democratic officials in the room say Democrats were upping the pressure on taxes, but they say nothing in the conversation led them to believe Mr. Cantor was about to walk away. But he did. The Biden track hit a dead end.

snip=========================================================================

The Back Channel
Meantime, secret talks had opened on a separate track between the White House and Mr. Boehner.

President Barack Obama has little interest in schmoozing lawmakers. But after last year's midterm elections, he made a decision to court the new speaker, according to one Democrat close to the president. In June, he invited Mr. Boehner to golf.

At Andrews Air Force Base on June 18, the pair played as a team and defeated Mr. Biden and Ohio's Republican governor, John Kasich. Afterward, the foursome retired to the clubhouse where, over cold drinks, Mr. Boehner suggested they work together to tackle the deficit in a big way. The two began a series of talks about what each wanted.

Mr. Boehner and Mr. Obama met secretly at the White House a few days later. That meeting was followed by several more. The talks turned public about two weeks later. The president convened a meeting of the top eight congressional leaders to gauge support for a what become known as a "grand bargain."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904292504576481812376152944

[Cha]

67. Mahalo, lapucelle!!!!

[still_one]

52. I think your last statement is the best characterization I have seen.

[onetexan]

19. Here you go - "Debate Backlash: Many Democrats Say Criticizing Obama's Legacy Isn't A Good Idea"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-obama-2020_n_5d4326a6e4b0ca604e2edddd

“I think attacking President Obama is bad policy and bad politics,” Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said Thursday. Of Biden’s tenure as vice president, Blumenthal added: “He owns it, for better or worse. But he should be proud of it.”

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois also suggested the Democratic race should be marked by a more hands-off approach toward Obama.

“You can disagree with him, and I have, but the bottom line is ... he did an extraordinary job, and he should be given that recognition by those that are running for the presidency.”

[Cha]

42. Mahalo, onetexan!

Debate Backlash: Many Democrats Say Criticizing Obama’s Legacy Isn’t A Good Idea

“I think attacking President Obama is bad policy and bad politics,” Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut said Thursday. Of Biden’s tenure as vice president, Blumenthal added: “He owns it, for better or worse. But he should be proud of it.”

Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois also suggested the Democratic race should be marked by a more hands-off approach toward Obama.

“You can disagree with him, and I have, but the bottom line is ... he did an extraordinary job, and he should be given that recognition by those that are running for the presidency.”

Link to tweet

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/biden-obama-2020_n_5d4326a6e4b0ca604e2edddd

I'm going to pass this on!

[Cha]

20. Ha! They go after President Obama at their own

peril. I say keep it up!

[treestar]

44. Is that what you do? That's what you do when you

have nothing to say for yourself.

[hlthe2b]

14. Me too, Joe. Me too.

[bronxiteforever]

26. Kick and recommend. Me too.

[Peacetrain]

30. I cannot tell you the number of people I have talked to today who cannot figure

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2019, 01:28 PM - Edit history (1)

that one out!.. and more than a few POC who have about had it with the "reason they poll for VP Biden is because he is a known name only).. as someone I was chatting with a Costco said, that is so insulting.. She is not a happy camper with that one.. I have no idea who is advising some of these candidates.. but I would check their resumes again..

[Cha]

34. Thanks for the anecdotes, Peacetrain!

Here's more on that..

Donald Trump Is Burning the Constitution, and the Biggest Villain at the Democratic Debate Was… Barack Obama?!

I kept listening to all those attacks on Obama’s record on immigration and criminal justice and all the rest thinking about these people watching and probably wondering what was going on here. The Constitution is being torched. The house is burning to the ground. And the villain Wednesday night was Obama?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287224093

[Peacetrain]

36. Why am I not surprised Cha..

Trump lacks any moral compass.. he is just an evil person

[Princetonian]

31. Do. Not. Go. There.

Obama Mamas have long memories.

[GulfCoast66]

32. While I find it distasteful in the extreme...

As a Biden supporter I say keep it up.

Criticizing President Obama is a sure way to see your poll numbers drop.

Do they not know that the base of our party in every southern state, with maybe a few exceptions, are African American women? And that even red stated delegates count the same as blue states?

[Cha]

35. That's what I say..

Donald Trump Is Burning the Constitution, and the Biggest Villain at the Democratic Debate Was… Barack Obama?!

I kept listening to all those attacks on Obama’s record on immigration and criminal justice and all the rest thinking about these people watching and probably wondering what was going on here. The Constitution is being torched. The house is burning to the ground. And the villain Wednesday night was Obama?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287224093

[ancianita]

41. Obama's name was dropped 13 times. Trump's, 68 times. Climate change, 19 times. So this

tweet by Biden is puzzling.

There were shouts from the audience of “3 million deportations” as Biden tried to defend President Barack Obama’s record on immigration and assert what he would do differently.

Perhaps in the thick of the immigration discussion he felt that he was defending Obama, but transcripts show that no candidates were really attacking.

[peggysue2]

45. Joe wasn't the only one surprised!

I read this afternoon that President Obama's approval rating is 97% among Democratic voters.

97%! And it makes sense to diss Barack Obama while we have the Squatter-in-Chief in the WH doing everything he can to shred the US Constitution, hollow out the government and enrich himself and his family?

No! It doesn't make sense and I predict a righteous blowback on the people doing it.

President Obama is not the enemy and/or the vessel for all things bad in the country. You want to complain about Republican talking points? Well there you go, the biggest of them all.

Dumb and dumber. Anyone following this strategy should quit. Yesterday.

[Cha]

50. Go Figure!

[Gothmog]

53. Biden is defending President Obama's legacy

Link to tweet

[oasis]

57. Opportunism. nt

[Gothmog]

69. It is a mistake to attack President Obama's record

Link to tweet

[Tarheel_Dem]

70. Anyone attacking President Obama is not worthy of my support. n/t

[Cha]

76. Biden: He was a great president. We don't say that enough.

Link to tweet

[YOHABLO]

77. Going after the Republican Party, the NRA, Moscow Mitch, Kochs, Citizens United, makes more sense.

[Mike Nelson]

80. I was surprised...

… that the media took that away from the debate - an attack on President Obama. I did not see it that way at all... candidates want to take his policies to the next progressive level.