That moment when Abby Huntsman tried to push Bernie out of her space

[pnwmom]

and he wouldn't let her.

The key moment is about the 4 minute mark, when she finally takes his hand and moves it away, and he reacts by swinging it back toward her face.

What bothers me about this video is that Bernie is so intent on his discussion with the other guy, that he has no regard for the human being sitting right next to him. He invades Huntsman's space like she's a piece of furniture.

[spooky3]

1. It's bad, but he did say "I am sorry." Nt

[pnwmom]

2. Huntsman looked uncomfortable throughout the segment,

not just at the end. Huntsman was extremely patient.

So he said he was sorry. Did that make up for his obliviousness? The moment for saying "I'm sorry" was when she pushed his hand away. Instead, he threw his hand back in her face. Only after that reaction did he catch himself and say he was sorry.

[NurseJackie]

8. No. He should have known better.

Does that make up for his obliviousness?

NO! He should have known better. It reveals much that she had to make pushback in such an obvious and overt way (and in a way that drew reaction from the audience) and perhaps his half-hearted abrupt apology was only motivated by the audience's reaction.

It wasn't accidental. It wasn't incidental. It wasn't a moment of excitement or a temporary lapse in manners. It was just rude from the outset and continuous. I'm honestly surprised she put up with it for as long as she did.

It was very disrespectful.

[Hortensis]

71. Significantly, this boorish behavior isn't isolated but repetitive.

There are various clips on line of this kind of thing. It's not an accident or rare, and the really blad clips I've seen all involved women.

It reminds me of an elderly neighbor who'd seemingly spent his whole life surrounded by people who didn't grasp his superior intellect so that he was forced to insist they pay attention. Mr. H. was also prone to talking too emphatically, listening briefly and impatiently and talking over others, repeating his points two or three times if no one seemed impressed enough by them the first time.

[NurseJackie]

91. That's true. A pattern can clearly be seen here.

and the really blad clips I've seen all involved women.

That's true. A pattern can clearly be seen here. The image it creates is not a very flattering one that makes BS and his defenders look bad.

[cwydro]

93. Didn't he push his wife out of the way once too?

I can barely stand to listen to him, so I may have remembered it wrong.

[NurseJackie]

94. Yes he did. George II mentions it in post 75...

Yes he did. George II mentions it in post 75... and he also provided a short video clip of the same. How embarrassing for Jane!

I'd mentioned this earlier, but I'll repeat it again: He's a grown man... and even though he's from a different generation where many men were taught that women were to be treated as chattel, where women were expected to be seen-and-not-heard, where women were expected to "obey"... it's also true that he hasn't lived his entire life in isolation and as a public servant, he should most definitely know better.

Nobody should be making excuses, and nobody should be blaming the target of that type disrespect and boorish behavior.

[cwydro]

96. My father was older than he is, and my father treated women with immense respect.

It seems to me he thinks of women as less than men. Ugh.

[Hortensis]

97. That long ago men were expected to act gentlemenly

toward women, a male chivalry demonstrated one way or another in every old movie from those decades. How they treated their wives in private might be different, but in public they held doors for women, walked protectively on the outside of sidewalks, courteously offered to carry their packages, held their coats for them, etc. All this was very routine while Sanders was growing up and for a while after and lingered for many men long after.

My husband, Sanders' age, still insists on walking on the outside and I can't even imagine him behaving disrespectfully to me in public. But then he doesn't behave that way to anyone.

[ehrnst]

99. +1000.

[George II]

74. He shouldn't have had to say he was sorry, he should have respected her in the first place.

[NurseJackie]

105. Amen! Complete lack of respect.

[lapucelle]

3. Maybe it's just another instance of "cooperative overlapping"

as per the resident discourse theory experts at Vice.

[NurseJackie]

4. That's exactly right. Zero regard. Zero respect.

What bothers me about this video is that Bernie is so intent on his discussion with the other guy, that he has no regard for the human being sitting right next to him. He invades Huntsman's space like she's a piece of furniture.

That's exactly right. Zero regard. Zero respect. Physically resisting her efforts to reclaim her personal space. It's unclear to me if the words "I'm sorry" are a continuation of the argument or a half-hearted (forced) apology to Huntsman only by virtue of the fact that she decided to "fight back". It says a lot that her pushback is what it took for him to realize that SHE was sitting there. It was very disrespectful.

I disapprove of this type of behavior, and... by the way... my disapproval is based on his BEHAVIOR... not his religion, and not his accent (I just want to make that clear before anyone absurdly accuses me of being anti-Brooklyn or anti-Jewish.)

[pnwmom]

6. Well said, NurseJackie! nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

5. I thought it was cute. And they made a joke of it. She smiled and he apologized.

A good time was had by all.

[pnwmom]

9. She was visibly uncomfortable throughout the segment, holding herself in,

making herself small, while he spreads himself out into her space.

She wasn't joking when she pushed his hand away. She wanted to be able to breathe without his hand inches away.

[NurseJackie]

10. There was absolutely NOTHING cute about the disrespect being given to her.

A good time was had by all.

No. She was NOT having a "good time". GMAFB!

[pnwmom]

13. Her body language is unmistakable. How anyone could think she was having a good time

is beyond me. She's sitting there holding her arms close to her body, sometimes averting her face, while that hand flaps around inches away from her.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

72. Maybe she was uncomfortable because she is a republican next teh greatness that is teh Bernie.

Oh and she only got where she is because of her dad.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

14. .

[NurseJackie]

15. Ellen has a well-designed set.

[murielm99]

12. It is so cute when men disrespect women.

They should not have made a joke of making someone uncomfortable.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. At least he likes cats.

The cat doesn't look convinced, though.

[zackymilly]

30. Why is Bernie smiling as he chokes that cat? What an evil man. n/t

[Lordquinton]

69. You forgot somethign

[Hassin Bin Sober]

79. It's Cat Gate!

[zackymilly]

84. I figured it was obvious. nt

[George II]

109. I guess to you a woman feeling uncomfortable is a joke?

[George II]

81. Why didn't he think about it before he did it? Then he wouldn't have had to say "I'm sorry", right?

[NurseJackie]

87. A grown man shouldn't need people to make excuses for boorish behavior...

... he's not a child. He's an adult and should know better. He was cornered into saying "I'm sorry". That wasn't voluntary. It wasn't sincere.

My boys hated it whenever I'd force them to groan out a whiny "Iiiii'm soooooryyyy!" Sure, I forced them to say it, but I knew it wasn't sincere. Still I also knew that what I'd done helped to reinforce in their developing minds the type of behavior that's socially acceptable, and the type of behavior that their mother is willing to accept (along with the consequences).

And that's a big difference here. He's a grown man... and even though he's from a different generation where many men were taught that women were treated as chattel, where women were expected to be seen-and-not-heard, where women were expected to "obey"... it's also true that he hasn't lived his entire life in isolation and as a public servant, he should most definitely know better.

Nobody should be making excuses, and nobody should be blaming the target of his disrespect.

[George II]

89. I'm not even sure he was apologizing to her or Stephen Moore.

[NurseJackie]

90. You are correct. He was not apologizing to her.

That whole display of how she was treated with such disrespect absolutely sickens me. What's even worse are all the "that's the way he is" excuses (boys will be boys, eh?) being made and the further attacks that blame-the-victim with "she should have spoken up and not been so timid" (reminiscent of the "she shouldn't have been dressed so sexy" blame-shifting).

[George II]

110. "It was her fault". What's disappointing is a few here are making very weak jokes about it.

[NurseJackie]

111. More than merely disappointing...

... it's disgusting. It makes me want to vomit.

[SouthernProgressive]

104. People aren't going to get that this is sarcasm.

It’s something one of his supporters would actually say.

[oasis]

7. Damn. Bernie's got his hand inches from her face through most of this.

not very presidential. A U.S. President will be meeting with many dignitaries who will expect to be treated with common courtesy.

[NurseJackie]

11. You're correct. It's not very presidential. The person I vote for will have a better demeanor...

You're correct. It's not very presidential. The person I vote for will have a better demeanor and will be more respectful and AWARE of others who may be around. The person I support will be thoughtful and respectful of others.

[crazytown]

46. 'Presidential' is not a word I use anymore

[TCJ70]

16. Alternative headline: Abby Huntsman grabs Bernie. He doesn't like it.

I was always taught that you don’t just grab people. Maybe she could have asked him to move his hands rather than just grab him?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

17. Yep. Technically that was misdemeanor battery.

[NurseJackie]

20. No, it was rude and disrespectful. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

It really serves no good purpose for anyone to try and sugar-coat it, or for anyone to be dismissive about that type of rude behavior. This is especially true in the #MeToo era. Trust me on this... women are sick and tired of this type of thoughtless and inconsiderate behavior, no matter WHO it comes from. We're also sick and tired of people who make excuses for the rudeness, or who ridicule us for speaking out. This shit needs to stop.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. What does this have to do with Me Too?

That’s a bit of a stretch.

[pnwmom]

51. It has to do with male entitlement, and failure to treat women as equal human beings.

Bernie was so dismissive of the woman sitting right next to him that he was waving his hand in her face -- completely unconscious of what he was doing, because he wasn't deliberately being aggressive. It was just that, in the moment, she didn't exist for him anymore than if she was a lamp.

And she, for several minutes, reacted as women have always been taught -- quietly, in a "ladylike" way, by shrinking away from him and turning her head away. Until she finally couldn't put up with him in her face anymore.

[Hortensis]

62. :) I think Hassin was joking about misdemeanor battery.

At least I got a nice chuckle out of it.

[NurseJackie]

64. I'm not as sure.

[pnwmom]

65. Did you see Hassin's post #5? Was that a joke, too? n/t

[Hortensis]

76. Cute?! But if serious, the first one's even funnier.

Good grief. At least Sanders hasn't claimed he could smack a woman on the street and not lose voters, so we're spared ridiculous defenses and "cute" Bernie photos.

[TCJ70]

73. MeToo? Did he sexually assault/harass her?! Oh wait...

...he never touched her. Instead, she grabbed him. What about his personal space? Are all men grabbable objects now?

She’s an adult woman. Speak up or remove yourself if you have a problem with a situation...but no one has right to grab someone else like she did.

[TCJ70]

58. I wouldn't go that far, but you just don't grab other people.

I’m also willing to bet that if the people were reversed in this situation, Bernie wouldn’t get the “self-defense” excuse for laying his hands on a woman.

[pnwmom]

18. That's a joke, right? She would have had to interrupt the animated discussion the men were having,

which Bernie was participating in with zero regard for her, in order to ask him to stop.

She had every right to take the hand that was invading her space and move it away.

[TCJ70]

22. Then interrupt. But don't just grab someone else. If you're uncomfortable, speak up. N/t

[NurseJackie]

24. OMG! Blaming Abby Huntsman?

This has all the overtones of "she shouldn't have been dressed so sexy" with the "blame the victim" crowd.

[TCJ70]

33. The problem is we see different offenses here.

Being in a heated conversation and NOT touching someone else isn’t an offense.

Grabbing someone else out of the blue is an offense.

Bernie can’t know what her personal bubble is, but it certainly ends for everyone at being grabbed.

[NurseJackie]

34. Nonsense.

Grabbing someone else out of the blue is an offense. Bernie can’t know what her personal bubble is,

Oh GMAFB! Complete nonsense. What an absurd argument. It's just more blame the victim for defending herself with "she shoulda" types of arguments instead of acknowledging that "he shouldn't have" ... which makes the most sense. He's not a child. He's a grown man. He knows better.

[TCJ70]

36. Defending herself? From what? Someone who isn't touching her? N/t

[NurseJackie]

38. Yes. Rudeness and disrespect come in many forms.

[TCJ70]

39. Like grabbing someone else? N/t

[NurseJackie]

42. Absurd.

[pnwmom]

53. That was self-defense.

He invaded her space with his hand. She but his hand back where it belonged.

[pnwmom]

61. She didn't grab him "out of the blue." She took his hand and pushed it away after several minutes

of rude provocation. And his reaction was to swing his hand back at her face. Nice guy.

[pnwmom]

25. Bernie wouldn't have reacted instantly. She would have had several seconds more

of putting up with his flapping fingers while she made herself heard over the two men, while Bernie absorbed what she was requesting, and decided how to respond.

She shouldn't have had to put up with one more second of that hand.

[TCJ70]

37. There are multiple ways out of that situation:

- backing up
- speaking up

Instead, she chose to grab him. Which is a definite violation of anyone’s personal space.

[Hav]

41. Yeah sure, she's the one who violated his personal space

It wasn't his intention but it was Bernie who got into her personal space. When someone gets into your personal space, it's natural that your body reacts defensively in order to create enough distance again for your personal space.
It's obvious how uncomfortable it got for her. She didn't know how to position herself or where to look because she had the choice of either switching between looking to the left or right which got awkward after a while or looking directly into someone's hand that happened to be in front of her. Her "violation" of his space was a defensive reaction to his actions.

[pnwmom]

43. Backing up????? She was seated with her back in a chair. She had no space in which to back up.

He violated her space before she pushed him away.

[TCJ70]

54. Admittedly I don't know the structure of the studio...

...and neither do you, but I’m confident to say that the chairs aren’t bolted down.

Also, Bernie’s not a mind reader and if she felt he invaded her space, speaking up, rather than even further invading HIS space is another, far less offensive, option.

[pnwmom]

59. Bernie's obviously not a mind reader. A mind reader would have shown more empathy.

He's a 76 year old adult who's old enough to know by now that NO woman wants a man's hand flapping around in her face or in front of her chest, unless they are in a close relationship.

[TCJ70]

60. This conversation started about invading space, flip the people in this one...

...and ask yourself if you’d be so quick to give Bernie the “self-defense” excuse if he grabbed her arm like that...

[pnwmom]

63. If SHE had been flapping her hand in front of his face or other sensitive areas,

I'd have had NO PROBLEM with him taking her hand and moving it away from him.

But she wasn't doing that. She was sitting there with her arms close to her body, trying to be as small as possible.

[TCJ70]

76. I'll have to take you at your word for that.

Given the history of this boards attitude towards Sanders I doubt such a clip would be portrayed as anything other than him man-handling her, though.

[oasis]

19. Abby was patient to a fault. She finally pushed Bernie's arm

away after she finally realized his degree of cluelessness.

[NurseJackie]

21. An excellent description. Thank you. Perfect word.

[oasis]

35. Abby probably has a sense that Bernie's not a mean guy at heart

and won't hold it against him. I'm certain both can chalk it up as a "teaching moment".

[TCJ70]

23. Cluelessness? He talks with his hands and always has.

If she was uncomfortable, she should have spoken up. But she chose to grab him instead and like most people, wasn’t a fan of being grabbed unexpectedly.

[pnwmom]

27. Everyone at that table was talking with their hands. But he was the only one who kept

invading anyone else's space. And he had no right to swing his hand back at her face after she moved it away. He knew at that moment that he had been bothering her, and he reacted by doing it again. Just to show he could.

If he's not a fan of being pushed away, he should keep his hands at a polite distance from women's bodies -- especially their faces and breasts.

[NurseJackie]

31. Blame the victim, eh? -- Sorry, there's just NO excuse for that type of behavior. None!

Cluelessness? He talks with his hands and always has.

Sorry, there's just NO excuse for that type of behavior. None! Simply because he's always been like that does not mean it's okay.

Fact is: He was being rude and disrespectful. He was being invasive and treating her like she was a potted plant or set decoration.

I don't blame her for her reaction. She was absolutely right to push back and restrain him. Who cares if he "wasn't a fan of being grabbed"?

He should try and remember that feeling next time he starts rudely invading someone's space.

[oasis]

40. How would you describe it? We both know Bernie wasn't aware

that he was continuously invading Abby's space. If he had a "clue" he would have stopped.

[TCJ70]

50. I think clueless implies a level of ineptitude that...

...doesn’t really fit this scenario.

[oasis]

57. If Bernie "had a clue" he was invading Abby's space would

he continue to do so? Ask yourself that question.

[Hortensis]

80. How about boorish? Can we all agree on that one?

Boorish: Rough and bad-mannered; coarse.

Synonyms: coarse, uncouth, rude, discourteous, impolite, ungentlemanly, unladylike, ill-bred, ill-mannered, churlish, gruff, uncivilized, uncultured, uncultivated, unsophisticated, unrefined, common, rough, thuggish, loutish;

antonyms: refined, sophisticated

[NurseJackie]

83. Works for me.

[LakeArenal]

101. Boorish is what I thought too.

But they do cram them close for the camera. Thoughtless.

[Hortensis]

103. Hmmm. He wasn't "thoughtless" here, though, and

that gentleman on the left had no problems keeping his hands to himself. Of course, Killer Mike has the advantage of a lot of "self" to keep to.

Maybe that's Sanders' problem? He's just too big a persona for his britches?

[NurseJackie]

106. Body language indicates discomfort.

[Hortensis]

108. Or understandable caution. :) Killer Mike doesn't seem like

he'd make a good passive victim. For that matter, Nina Turner doesn't either. One might just lose a hand dissing it at her. And then there's that audience...

[LakeArenal]

113. I see. He's capable enough in that clip

Bernie just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

Tho neither does Abby Huntsman. Still...
Bernie... geez.

[Hortensis]

115. My DIL is in the same position. A long time ago

I decided there was no point in emotionally committing to any one person early on. I've instead been identifying all the people I could support in the GE, which at least is a lot more comfortable because one of those always ends up the nominee. And it forced me to recognize how similar most of our candidates really are ideologically. The ones I like are always all progressive liberals facing the same set of compelling issues, in spite of phony media claims of giant conflicts and their own attempts to make differences sound critically important. The ones-of-a-kind are genuinely different, of course, but they're typically also claiming their approaches to the same issues are critically different, and usually they aren't that much.

[GulfCoast66]

86. Don't know where you work...

But where I work saying “I didn’t have a clue having my hand inched from her face” dose not impress HR.

Part of my job is having a clue! And I’m just a mid level manager. Not running for President.

Think about that.

[Skidmore]

28. He is both

rude and intrusive. In people's faces yelling and wagging his finger, spraying spittle. Never aware of others' boundaries.

[NurseJackie]

32. Yes. That second thing. Gross.

[DesertRat]

29. I remember watching this live

Last edited Sat Aug 3, 2019, 07:53 PM - Edit history (1)

A very UNcomfortable moment.

[pnwmom]

44. Do you mean "uncomfortable"?

Because she looked uncomfortable to me.

[DesertRat]

68. Yes, sorry I typed too quickly!

I'll edit.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

45. I remember when this was run through the outrage Wurlitzer several years ago.

[pnwmom]

66. I remember when he was running for President several years ago.

Gee, maybe there's a connection.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

78. This non issue was just as silly then as it is now.

She clearly wasn’t bothered as some here make out.

Non issue.

[George II]

88. She was VERY angry, otherwise she wouldn't have pushed his hand away. Not something to be....

...pooh poohed away. It's not the first time he did something like that, he even did something similar to his own wife. Non issue to you? Duly noted.

(Also noted, the title of the video isn't mine)

[NurseJackie]

98. That's the only time I've ever felt sorry for Jane.

How humiliating to be disrespected like that before a crowd of people, and on national television. Maybe she's used to it and has stopped being bothered by it. I remember my first (short-lived) toxic marriage was to a man who treated me like shit, and for a while, I just thought it was normal. I believed and fell for the lies that "I made him do it" and "it was my fault" (or "I shouldn't have been standing so close'' or "I should have moved out of the way faster'') etc etc etc, blah blah blah. Times have changed. For decent men, women are no longer considered to be chattel, or possessions, or houseplants, or lamps. We're not here to satisfy the sexual desires of men. We're not maids and housekeepers or handmaidens to be ordered about. Thoughtful and respectful men treat us as human beings, with dignity and respect. Thoughtful men. Respectful men. I'm just astounded that anyone would defend and make excuses for this type of boorish behavior.

[Princetonian]

48. "Published on Apr 6, 2013"?! Why are you posting a video from over SIX YEARS AGO?

Furthermore, how is this relevant to "Democratic Primaries" 2019?

[pnwmom]

49. Everything concerning a Presidential candidate needs to be posed in "Democratic Primaries"

no matter when it happened. That's a DU rule.

And there is no cut-off date for relevance -- for any of the candidates. That's why, for example, people here were talking about Kamala's tenure as CA Attorney General, dating back to 2010.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

55. It's all they got.

[Princetonian]

70. Lord, give me strength!

[emmaverybo]

102. The question is why you don't post more frequently in favor of a candidate, rather than digging

up negatives and doing stir-up threads based on them. In this case, the incident has already come up at DU and I personally don’t see the need to hash it out anymore. Bernie is not my favorite, but
a constant stream of negative content in the guise of vetting candidates makes me uneasy.

[George II]

82. BS is a candidate in the 2020 presidential primary. That's why.

[pangaia]

67. god what a stupid show..

[George II]

75. Reminds me of the time he told Jane not to stand next to him and pushed her back, twice.

[NurseJackie]

85. Oi.

[SidDithers]

92. "Bernie Talks Like a Jewish Man from Brooklyn and You Need to Get Over It"...nt

Sid

[NurseJackie]

95. LOL!

[Hortensis]

100. And the winner is...!

[George II]

107. I think I read that somewhere around here.

[TreasonousBastard]

112. You guys are still arguing about this?

[Gothmog]

114. LOL