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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:12 AM Aug 2019

Biden's gaffes are likely an extension of his stutter - which he has had most his life.

Not all, of course, but when he clearly gets tongue-tied, as he has at times in his career, it's likely due to his stutter. Even today, Biden has admitted he has to focus when speaking to make sure he doesn't stutter his words.

Here's a profile of Biden from The Stuttering Foundation:

https://www.stutteringhelp.org/content/joe-biden

I think these attacks on Biden are petty and hurtful.

Here's a speech he gave in 2016 at the American Institute for Stuttering.



As Biden said in this speech: "Stuttering is the only thing that good people think its still okay to laugh about" - and it's true. Even on places like DU.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
97 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Biden's gaffes are likely an extension of his stutter - which he has had most his life. (Original Post) Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 OP
K&R for visibility. nt tblue37 Aug 2019 #1
I suffered all through middle and high school SHRED Aug 2019 #2
me too.. and through undergrad and grad school, although less and less. pangaia Aug 2019 #16
I agree. He's under a microscope OKNancy Aug 2019 #3
Stress, time pressure, performance anxiety increase symptoms, and thus the speaker has to work emmaverybo Aug 2019 #39
How long 'til tRump mocks Joe's stutter on national TV? groundloop Aug 2019 #4
Not long Gothmog Aug 2019 #62
He best not go there... Bayard Aug 2019 #66
Aphasia crazytown Aug 2019 #5
NOT TRUE. Aphasia is loss of the ability to understand or express speech, caused by brain damage. highplainsdem Aug 2019 #8
I am not going to argue the point crazytown Aug 2019 #10
Well, then I guess everyone on earth suffers from aphasia, because everyone makes such mistakes. highplainsdem Aug 2019 #13
And see this for a Psychology Today article on slips of the tongue and why they happen: highplainsdem Aug 2019 #23
I'm not going to argue the point. crazytown Aug 2019 #33
I've got a friend diagnosed with aphasia. Joe does not have aphasia redstateblues Aug 2019 #37
LOL, really, the friend is your proof? nt USALiberal Aug 2019 #72
You think that's funny? I'll take that over someone who read a book about it redstateblues Aug 2019 #86
BULLSHIT. This is the crap that was pulled on Hillary. yardwork Aug 2019 #55
Aphasia is usually caused by a stroke, and it's not at all what you think it is. cwydro Aug 2019 #85
You're asserting that Biden has brain damage or dementia? TwilightZone Aug 2019 #87
I think so too. Dr. Jill encouraged him to run. I doubt Kahuna7 Aug 2019 #6
Unless he did not write the recent op-Ed about conditions in Central American countries himself, emmaverybo Aug 2019 #32
When will the press snowybirdie Aug 2019 #7
Catching other candidates' mistakes isn't part of their media narrative, and would undermine highplainsdem Aug 2019 #14
You, and some other Biden supporters, are trying so hard to place a force field around Joe True Dough Aug 2019 #9
What a hateful post. Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #12
Thanks elleng Aug 2019 #15
There you go again True Dough Aug 2019 #17
What's hateful about this post? StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #18
This. ms liberty Aug 2019 #82
Agree. 100%. Celerity Sep 2019 #90
Could you point out where in that post they mocked Biden Bradshaw3 Aug 2019 #36
If you can't see it, that's on you... Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #83
It's just anger because Pete fizzled out. BannonsLiver Aug 2019 #38
Then you should alert it! nt USALiberal Aug 2019 #73
This post is truly sad Gothmog Aug 2019 #78
Excellent points StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #19
And I'm sure you've noticed Joe Biden is a white man True Dough Aug 2019 #21
And of course no other candidates have murielm99 Aug 2019 #29
Did I say that? True Dough Aug 2019 #30
No. You did not say that. murielm99 Aug 2019 #31
This post makes no claim about criticisms on past policy positions or Biden's place on the emmaverybo Aug 2019 #45
You know the bigger picture very well True Dough Aug 2019 #47
Your response is not a response to any of the comments I made. I said nothing about your" point emmaverybo Aug 2019 #60
And thereby you attempt to limit the conversation once again True Dough Aug 2019 #63
Excellent response, emmaverybo! Cha Aug 2019 #74
+1 progressoid Aug 2019 #67
From my twitter feed Gothmog Aug 2019 #68
That's nice True Dough Aug 2019 #69
Joe Biden is the best candidate Gothmog Aug 2019 #70
See, there are these things called opinions True Dough Aug 2019 #71
Yeah.. just like your "opinion". Cha Aug 2019 #75
I am very comfortable with a candidate who is not attacking other Democrats Gothmog Aug 2019 #80
Yep, great points. NT Celerity Sep 2019 #91
See this thread for a linguistic expert's take on how unfairly campaigning politicians are judged: highplainsdem Aug 2019 #11
Biden's gaffes must be getting some people very worried StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #20
+1000 bluewater Aug 2019 #24
You're seeing OPs about slips of the tongue today because the top half of the 1st page here had highplainsdem Aug 2019 #35
People have been talking about Biden's gaffes for years. It's nothing new StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #46
So I'm not allowed to point out that slips of the tongue are common for everyone, if I didn't highplainsdem Aug 2019 #49
You're allowed to say whatever you like StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #51
But if people point out that slips of the tongue are common, you say it indicates that they're highplainsdem Aug 2019 #57
Expressing an opinion about what you post on an internet discussion board isn't the same StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #59
I already told her I'm Not "very worried" or Cha Aug 2019 #79
I am ignoring these threads Gothmog Aug 2019 #65
Yes, Biden's supporters are standing up for him.. Cha Aug 2019 #77
Speaking of distinct patterns... TwilightZone Aug 2019 #88
I am glad to see this post. Yes, even at DU! It is incumbent on those that pounce on Biden's emmaverybo Aug 2019 #22
I believe his stutter probably is a factor, but in fact slips of the tongue are common for everyone: highplainsdem Aug 2019 #25
Biden's gaffes don't bother me, and I understand there are good reasons why he makes them. Politicub Aug 2019 #26
I stutter. Calling Theresa May Margaret Thatcher is not stuttering zonkers Aug 2019 #27
Never said it did? Drunken Irishman Aug 2019 #28
Biden rises or falls on electability BeyondGeography Aug 2019 #34
When Joe's numbers stay steady or move up the desperation of redstateblues Aug 2019 #40
He's not a terribly imposing frontrunner BeyondGeography Aug 2019 #41
The thing that stands out about all your numbers is that HRC lost both times. redstateblues Aug 2019 #42
Whomever we nominate will have earned it BeyondGeography Aug 2019 #43
He is, as is reflected in his front runner status, the most specifically qualified, knowledgeable, emmaverybo Aug 2019 #61
Of course it's related - having to focus on not stuttering can cause a stutterer to lose focus Skya Rhen Aug 2019 #44
The More You Know. oasis Aug 2019 #48
Better a gaffe than outright freaking lies and willful ignorance like trump n/t mtngirl47 Aug 2019 #50
Remember when videohead5 Aug 2019 #52
Stuttering is the reason he got the city and state wrong?... lame54 Aug 2019 #53
OMG who cares about a few minor misspeaks?! yardwork Aug 2019 #54
Thank you so much for this, I'm glad that he is just the way he is, I had never heard of this before secondwind Aug 2019 #56
I'll be damned. ucrdem Aug 2019 #58
I stuttered through fourth grade Gothmog Aug 2019 #64
I did not know he was a stutterer Drifter Aug 2019 #76
That's ridiculous jberryhill Aug 2019 #81
+1 Celerity Sep 2019 #92
What a silly excuse. SharonClark Aug 2019 #84
Lol. Over a month later and still no answer to your question. Celerity Sep 2019 #93
I really like Joe Biden Gothmog Sep 2019 #89
Joe Biden's childhood struggle with a stutter: How he overcame it and how it shaped him Gothmog Sep 2019 #94
Here is a great story Gothmog Nov 2019 #95
What Joe Biden Can't Bring Himself to Say Gothmog Nov 2019 #96
Clarence Page column: Are Joe Biden's gaffes tied to stuttering? Gothmog Dec 2019 #97
 

SHRED

(28,136 posts)
2. I suffered all through middle and high school
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:14 AM
Aug 2019

It's horrific.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
16. me too.. and through undergrad and grad school, although less and less.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:36 AM
Aug 2019

from when I started teaching it got much better.. why? no idea...

now it is rare, mostly not noticeable .. but I have these little tricks.. :&gt ))

don;t we all...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
3. I agree. He's under a microscope
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:17 AM
Aug 2019

So every little thing is blown way out of proportion. Everyone on this earth has slips, but his are called "gaffes". Not in the latest instance, but some of those so-called gaffes are actually truth-telling.

If he does have a history of stuttering, then it makes it all the more ridiculous.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
39. Stress, time pressure, performance anxiety increase symptoms, and thus the speaker has to work
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:53 PM
Aug 2019

that much harder producing language fluently, rapidly, and in a way that does not betray the underlying communication challenge.

Think dyslexia for an analogy. People are taught ways to deal with it. Whether they come upon
these ways of correcting for it or work with a reading and writing specialist, they have to spend much more time and effort on various language tasks than those without a learning disability.

Where the analogy fails is that some of this effort can go on privately.

For the public speaker with a stuttering history, language production takes place in front of an audience, under the very conditions that cause an increased likelihood of an audible and visible
stutter.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

groundloop

(11,517 posts)
4. How long 'til tRump mocks Joe's stutter on national TV?
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:18 AM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bayard

(22,038 posts)
66. He best not go there...
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:19 PM
Aug 2019

There is SO much to make fun of about the Orange One. He can dish it out, but he sure can't take it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
5. Aphasia
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:20 AM
Aug 2019

Thinking one word and involantarily saying another is aphasia.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
8. NOT TRUE. Aphasia is loss of the ability to understand or express speech, caused by brain damage.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:25 AM
Aug 2019

Biden shows absolutely NO signs of brain damage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
10. I am not going to argue the point
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:29 AM
Aug 2019

'thinking one thing and involuntarily saying another' is a form of aphasia

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
13. Well, then I guess everyone on earth suffers from aphasia, because everyone makes such mistakes.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:32 AM
Aug 2019

I've never known anyone who's free of them, and I doubt anyone here is, or that they know anyone who never makes such mistakes.

See this thread for a linguist's take on misstatements and how unfairly compaigning politicians are judged:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287233345

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
23. And see this for a Psychology Today article on slips of the tongue and why they happen:
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:05 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
33. I'm not going to argue the point.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:23 PM
Aug 2019

And I'm not going to weaponize it against VP Biden either. The OP speculated about word selection and stuttering. I stated something out of a textbook. I've said enough.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
37. I've got a friend diagnosed with aphasia. Joe does not have aphasia
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:52 PM
Aug 2019

Please stop the smear

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
72. LOL, really, the friend is your proof? nt
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:39 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
86. You think that's funny? I'll take that over someone who read a book about it
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 10:55 PM
Aug 2019

You have a twisted sense of humor

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yardwork

(61,588 posts)
55. BULLSHIT. This is the crap that was pulled on Hillary.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:00 PM
Aug 2019

Not gonna put up with it this time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
85. Aphasia is usually caused by a stroke, and it's not at all what you think it is.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 09:10 PM
Aug 2019

Biden doesn’t suffer from aphasia. Smh.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,454 posts)
87. You're asserting that Biden has brain damage or dementia?
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:21 PM
Aug 2019

That's quite the claim. I suspect that you may not actually know what aphasia is or what usually causes it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kahuna7

(2,531 posts)
6. I think so too. Dr. Jill encouraged him to run. I doubt
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:23 AM
Aug 2019

she would have encouraged him if she thought he was senile and not up to the task.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
32. Unless he did not write the recent op-Ed about conditions in Central American countries himself,
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:23 PM
Aug 2019

his intellect as displayed in that article, his speeches, interviews, in debating, and carrying out
duties as a VP only a few years ago, is intact, high functioning, unimpaired.

Flawless language production—nary a delay, a word mix-up, a fragment, a lapse between thought and words under pressure—should not be expected of any candidate, much less one who has struggled hard to overcome stuttering, a condition that is never “cured.”

The effort needed to correct for it can lead to errors. These errors are not cognitive, but functional.

I notice more complaints and accusations since Biden received so much positive attention for his speech and interview.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

snowybirdie

(5,222 posts)
7. When will the press
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:25 AM
Aug 2019

start reporting on the other candidates' gaffes? Have worked on campaigns and all candidates misspeak at times. A really minor complaint when we have monstrous issues to fix!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
14. Catching other candidates' mistakes isn't part of their media narrative, and would undermine
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:33 AM
Aug 2019

the narrative being used to attack Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
9. You, and some other Biden supporters, are trying so hard to place a force field around Joe
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:27 AM
Aug 2019

"Don't make negative comments when he something he says comes out wrong because he used to struggle with a stutter."

"Don't bring up Joe's positions from 30 or 40 years ago because that's ancient history."

"Don't criticize Biden for not being 'left enough'."


Well, guess what? That's all on the table for examination and comment. This is a discussion forum and we're in the midst of a primary.

And, for the record, I haven't seen a single post that mocks Biden for having a stutter at any point in his life. If any DUer has said as much, shame on them.


But your attempts to swaddle Joe in a baby blanket and try to protect him from criticism by suggesting we're bullies for pointing out how his periodic ill-chosen words are sometimes harmful won't work. It just won't work.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
12. What a hateful post.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:31 AM
Aug 2019

I feel sorry for you that you think it's perfectly acceptable to mock someone's word choices knowing they struggle with a stutter. This line of attack seems to be taken right out of the Book of Trump.

Good luck with that line of attack. I'm sure it'll prove effective.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
17. There you go again
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:36 AM
Aug 2019

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:06 PM - Edit history (1)

I would support Joe over Trump in a heartbeat. I've said it many times before. But that doesn't mean Biden is off limits to being questioned and his words scrutinized during the primary.

Any attempts to couch all of Joe's spoken foibles as an extension of his stuttering are malarkey.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
18. What's hateful about this post?
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:48 AM
Aug 2019

It's a very respectful and thoughtful observation.

Nowhere does he/she say or imply that "it's perfectly acceptable to mock someone's word choices knowing they struggle with a stutter." And there's nothing in the post that could remotely be labeled an "attack."

Your response, in fact, helps to illustrate the post's exact point. You are doing exactly what the poster is describing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bradshaw3

(7,497 posts)
36. Could you point out where in that post they mocked Biden
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:51 PM
Aug 2019

I've read it twice and don't see it. Just as I've never seen anyone on DU mock Biden for stuttering, as you claimed. If you are going to make charges against people like that you need to be able to back them up, or you are just as bad as what you claim they are.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
83. If you can't see it, that's on you...
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 07:29 PM
Aug 2019

Conflating valid criticisms with a misspeak that's likely the result of a life-time stutter is Trump-level if awfulness. Biden gets tongue-tied. Mocking that or using it to attack him is plain mean and something I would expect from the right - not the left.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BannonsLiver

(16,351 posts)
38. It's just anger because Pete fizzled out.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:52 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
73. Then you should alert it! nt
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:40 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
78. This post is truly sad
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:45 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
21. And I'm sure you've noticed Joe Biden is a white man
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:04 PM
Aug 2019

My critiques of candidates are not based on race or gender.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

murielm99

(30,730 posts)
29. And of course no other candidates have
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:14 PM
Aug 2019

supporters here who try to protect their chosen one from criticism. Only Joe, eh? No one else with thin skin?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
30. Did I say that?
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:19 PM
Aug 2019

This thread is about Biden so my comments pertain to Joe and his supporters. Makes sense?

I've had exchanges with supporters of other candidates. There have also been times I've stuck my neck out for Pete and other times when I've allowed criticisms of Buttigieg to stand without comment because I feel it's a fair point.

No candidate is perfect, and no candidate should expect to go without being challenged -- and that's something everyone here should learn to get comfortable with. We're not issuing protective bubbles.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

murielm99

(30,730 posts)
31. No. You did not say that.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:21 PM
Aug 2019

I did.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
45. This post makes no claim about criticisms on past policy positions or Biden's place on the
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:35 PM
Aug 2019

political spectrum.

It confines itself to focusing on language production lapses related to Biden’s disability and it attempts to educate us about that condition so we can distinguish between common symptoms of
that disability and more substantive issues which contribute to a more fair and productive focus on
Biden’s candidacy.

The defense you give, that Biden’s occasional wording glitches are doing harm and so we must
indict his candidacy, excuse the concerted effort to portray Biden as cognitively impaired, senile, a racist or all three at once, on the basis of minor mistakes which he himself has mostly corrected
immediately upon their making.

Further, your defense ignores and rejects any education this post might give us, not only about
Biden, but about a little understood and frequently mocked disability, often construed as a sign
of a mental, cognitive, or even emotional impairment.

Biden has done the nation and our party considerable good, historically, and currently in his role as
an elder statesman, former vice-president, now running in the primaries. He has used his position
to address many systemic ills, to comfort, to unify people of good will, and to convey a vision of American ideals that is uplifting, inspiring.

Despite occasional word mix-ups or temporary and slight fumbles, he has been consistent in delivering an essential message about the high-stakes struggle we face.

Whatever the outcome in this primary season, we are fortunate to have Biden’s voice, communicative gifts, and his knowledgeable perspective on the most crucial issues of our day, issues which extend far beyond our borders to the fate of democracy world-wide.

He’s got the big picture. Petty and often spiteful critiques do nothing to take away from his character and his earned authority.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
47. You know the bigger picture very well
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:44 PM
Aug 2019

Y'all circle the wagons for Joe on each and every occasion as if he should be untouchable. Sorry, you're not going to chase away anyone with a different point of view. Nice try though.

There's a long way to go in this primary. If Biden wins, fine. But he's not at the finish line yet. Far from it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
60. Your response is not a response to any of the comments I made. I said nothing about your" point
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 03:17 PM
Aug 2019

of view” on Biden’s policies, vision, qualifications, or any of his political stances. You did not state a point of view on any of those; I did not argue about his politics.

I made no claim about his chances to win the primary. I did not discuss ‘every occasion.”

I confined my discussion to a) your last response, or lack rather of responsiveness, to the OP b) your emphasis ,on “harm” you contend has been rendered by Biden’s glitches in wording, which are likely related to a much overlooked and misunderstood disability.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
63. And thereby you attempt to limit the conversation once again
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 03:39 PM
Aug 2019

Try to hem in the other person. Only address what you see as expedient.

And the wording of your own response is suspect: "which are likely related to a much overlooked and misunderstood disability."


Nobody knows that. It's speculative.


When Biden spoke of working alongside segregationist senators, that was due to a stutter?

When Biden twice referred to Theresa May as Margaret Thatcher, that was due to a stutter?

Do you think Biden intended to refer to Cory Booker as "future president" during the last debate, or was that the fault of his stutter?

Here's an article published today by the Washington Post, not exactly a bastion of right-wing puppets. The title is: Joe Biden's Mounting Slip-Ups and Why They Matter


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/08/09/joe-bidens-mounting-slip-ups-why-they-matter/


Biden's numerous gaffes are catching up with him already and there's many months ahead. I guess I can expect to see more of you rushing to his defense over and over again in the future.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(297,034 posts)
74. Excellent response, emmaverybo!
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:17 PM
Aug 2019

Thank you!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
69. That's nice
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:34 PM
Aug 2019

Really, good on Joe for helping others. I don't think he's a bad guy.

But is he the best choice to lead the Dems against Trump? I'm not convinced of that. We have several months to go before that decision is cemented. In the meantime, if the gaffes continue to pile up, I'm not going to be silent because some of his supporters here insist that a past stutter that Biden has overcome is the cause of his verbal miscues.

Besides that, on the issues, I'm more left-leaning that Joe. Warren would be my second choice after Pete.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
70. Joe Biden is the best candidate
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:36 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,296 posts)
71. See, there are these things called opinions
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:38 PM
Aug 2019

and you don't get to decide those for others.

Cheers!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(297,034 posts)
75. Yeah.. just like your "opinion".
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:22 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
80. I am very comfortable with a candidate who is not attacking other Democrats
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:54 PM
Aug 2019

I truly like Joe Biden

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(43,260 posts)
91. Yep, great points. NT
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 01:43 AM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
11. See this thread for a linguistic expert's take on how unfairly campaigning politicians are judged:
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:30 AM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
20. Biden's gaffes must be getting some people very worried
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:57 AM
Aug 2019

given the sudden spate of threads popping up today explaining and dismissing them, attacking people who point them out and now trying to frame them as some kind of a disability.

Biden has been gaffe-prone for most of his career and his gaffes are regularly commented on by the media, pundits, supporters, opponents and others. Usually, Democrats just laugh, brush them off, and move on to the next thing. But suddenly, in the last day, some people are pushing back en masse on any criticism of them and doing so rather aggressively, even accusing people who talk about them of attacking hi because he used to stutter.

I see distinct patterns on this board and this is the latest one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
35. You're seeing OPs about slips of the tongue today because the top half of the 1st page here had
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:41 PM
Aug 2019

three OPs about Biden's gaffes from people who criticize him regularly.

You're right that the media have regularly commented on his gaffes. But unfair media narratives about Al Gore almost certainly played a role in his losing the 2000 election. It's foolish for Dems to play along.

And gaffes, or slips of the tongue, are EXTREMELY common, so I posted OPs about that. One quoting a linguisics expert, another quoting a Psychology Today article going into great scientific detail about how and why gaffes happen.

I did that because of posts here suggesting Biden's gaffes have to be indicative of cognitive decline or brain damage like aphasia.

I posted OPs because I thought it would help if people here had some facts from experts.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
46. People have been talking about Biden's gaffes for years. It's nothing new
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:40 PM
Aug 2019

And he happened to make a few in the past couple of days, something that will likely continue to happen given his propensity for saying the wrong thing combined with the heightened attention he's getting as the frontrunner.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
49. So I'm not allowed to point out that slips of the tongue are common for everyone, if I didn't
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:48 PM
Aug 2019

post about that years ago?

You suggested that his defenders are "worried" about his gaffes. I'm not. I am tired of nonstop attacks on our front-runner.

And I thought it might help to introduce some expertise about slips of the tongue into a discussion that's too often foolishly making too much of them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
51. You're allowed to say whatever you like
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:49 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
57. But if people point out that slips of the tongue are common, you say it indicates that they're
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:15 PM
Aug 2019

"worried" about them.

Interesting. Completely wrong, but interesting...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
59. Expressing an opinion about what you post on an internet discussion board isn't the same
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:31 PM
Aug 2019

as telling you that you aren't allowed to say something.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,034 posts)
79. I already told her I'm Not "very worried" or
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:50 PM
Aug 2019

even worried. She's wrong.

Thanks for all you do to bring clarity here, highplainsdem

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
65. I am ignoring these threads
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 03:40 PM
Aug 2019

Now that I have seen this video, I am convinced that Biden is the best possible candidate to be the nominee of the party

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,034 posts)
77. Yes, Biden's supporters are standing up for him..
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:43 PM
Aug 2019

And, Biden's detractors are jumping on this.. There's a "distinct pattern.." for you.

I'm not "..very worried.. " as you assert, though. Or even worried. Biden will either work his way through this or he won't. We will get a Democratic Candidate who will beat trump in the end.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,454 posts)
88. Speaking of distinct patterns...
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 11:29 PM
Aug 2019

These threads seem to be in response to the multiple threads from detractors all but hyperventilating about Biden's recent gaffes. As you noted, this is nothing new for Biden so acting as though they're some huge, disqualifying shock is misguided, at best. It's really typical DU primary behavior, though. Also not a surprise and nothing new.

I don't think it's unreasonable for his supporters to respond, and frankly, the responses generally haven't been as ridiculous as some of the claims, some in this very thread.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
22. I am glad to see this post. Yes, even at DU! It is incumbent on those that pounce on Biden's
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:04 PM
Aug 2019

speech habits to learn about this condition. That does not mean that substance should be immune from criticism. But blowing up speech glitches attributable to symptoms of stuttering, which do not
go away even when the audible manifestation does, is borne of ignorance and sometimes pure spite.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(48,957 posts)
25. I believe his stutter probably is a factor, but in fact slips of the tongue are common for everyone:
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:07 PM
Aug 2019
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287233461


That's about a Psychology Today article that explains why slips of the tongue happen, and why they're common.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
26. Biden's gaffes don't bother me, and I understand there are good reasons why he makes them.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:11 PM
Aug 2019

It's so easy to take a gaffe out of context and create a hit-job video or article using it.

But Biden's reputation for making gaffes may be his saving grace. If people are conditioned to think it's just Biden being Biden, maybe it will blunt some of the criticism he gets for slips of the tongue.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

zonkers

(5,865 posts)
27. I stutter. Calling Theresa May Margaret Thatcher is not stuttering
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:12 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,367 posts)
34. Biden rises or falls on electability
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:41 PM
Aug 2019

The gaffes hurt him on that front. The worst thing he, his advisors or his supporters could do is make excuses for them. He needs to do better.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
40. When Joe's numbers stay steady or move up the desperation of
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 12:59 PM
Aug 2019

His detractors intensifies and they look for new lines of attack. It’s definitely intensifying after his brilliant, inspiring speech.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,367 posts)
41. He's not a terribly imposing frontrunner
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:08 PM
Aug 2019

HRC's numbers were much higher in 08 and 16. She was also a stronger candidate to begin with IMHO. Biden is 0-2 on this stage and he has come nowhere close either time. HRC was defeated in a close race by a once-in-a-lifetime candidate and won pretty handily last time. She had higher negatives but she was very good on her feet. By way of example, Biden stepped all over the headlines of his "brilliant, inspiring speech" yesterday when he moved off-script from the Prompter, which is a fundamental problem that Clinton never had. His numbers in Iowa have been fairly static since he announced. Six months out from the caucus I really don't think he's causing much desperation out there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
42. The thing that stands out about all your numbers is that HRC lost both times.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:23 PM
Aug 2019

In the primary against O and in the General against Trump. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I like Warren, I just don’t think she can win back the rust belt. Joe has flaws for sure but I believe he is a lock to beat Trump. I wish I felt that way about the rest of our incredibly qualified candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BeyondGeography

(39,367 posts)
43. Whomever we nominate will have earned it
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:29 PM
Aug 2019

And their electability numbers will follow. If you look at the national numbers in any number of polls, Biden has the biggest edge against Trump but others, including Warren, are not too far behind. Among Democrats, the electability numbers don't reflect that at all; Biden has a massive edge. Which gets back to my original point. His candidacy rises and falls there. If he could play error-free baseball, he'd be very tough to beat. But he never has.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
61. He is, as is reflected in his front runner status, the most specifically qualified, knowledgeable,
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 03:30 PM
Aug 2019

and experienced candidate. He is widely respected here and abroad.

He certainly has foreign relations and policy expertise, and in-the-field job experience as well as stature on the world stage, lacking in all of the other candidates, which, though not as universally appreciated as domestic policy positions, is key to national and global security, no more than at any other time in history.

Perceptions may change. No one is disputing that.

Among other factors in Clinton’s defeat was that when she launched her campaign, she was under
investigation, unfairly, by the FBI. Biden is not.

Comparing their speaking styles or abilities is subjective.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Skya Rhen

(2,701 posts)
44. Of course it's related - having to focus on not stuttering can cause a stutterer to lose focus
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:34 PM
Aug 2019

on what is intended to be said, from time to time.

I have a mild form of this speech impediment and so understand the pressure that some stutterers have - trying to do two things at once. It can be very challenging and I empathize with Joe.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mtngirl47

(988 posts)
50. Better a gaffe than outright freaking lies and willful ignorance like trump n/t
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:49 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

videohead5

(2,171 posts)
52. Remember when
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:49 PM
Aug 2019

Obama said he had been to 57 states. This is silly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lame54

(35,278 posts)
53. Stuttering is the reason he got the city and state wrong?...
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:51 PM
Aug 2019

Or he thinks that the poor only consists of minorities?

Try again

Making fun of stuttering is wrong but so is hiding behind it

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

yardwork

(61,588 posts)
54. OMG who cares about a few minor misspeaks?!
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 01:59 PM
Aug 2019

We have a sociopathic monster in the White House who says horrible things every single day. This is an emergency.

I don't give a damn about a minor gaffe from any Democratic candidate. Anybody who pretends to care about this is either really, really dumb or lying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
56. Thank you so much for this, I'm glad that he is just the way he is, I had never heard of this before
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:02 PM
Aug 2019


THANK YOU!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
58. I'll be damned.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 02:18 PM
Aug 2019

No idea. Good for Joe. Glad he shared this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
64. I stuttered through fourth grade
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 03:39 PM
Aug 2019

This video brought tears to my eyes. I was happy to support Joe before this video but now I am really thrilled to support him

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Drifter

(4,751 posts)
76. I did not know he was a stutterer
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:43 PM
Aug 2019

I am a life long stutterer. I am typically very aware of others that are.

Cheers
Drifter
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
81. That's ridiculous
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 07:05 PM
Aug 2019

I’m a native of Delaware. Joe’s been occasionally saying dumb things his entire political life, just as would anyone who makes a career out of saying stuff. In 46 years of Joe Biden occasionally saying odd stuff, nobody, and I mean nobody, has ever attributed it to a stutter.

Referring to an older female British prime minister as “Margaret Thatcher” is a completely straightforward thing for a person of his age, like a reference to “Czechoslovakia” instead of “Czech Republic”. Attributing it to a stutter is just absurd.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
84. What a silly excuse.
Fri Aug 9, 2019, 08:02 PM
Aug 2019

He makes gaffes. I don't think they're important considering he may be running against a narcissistic sociopath. Gaffes are just part of the Biden package.

"As Biden said in this speech: "Stuttering is the only thing that good people think its still okay to laugh about" and it's true. Even on places like DU."

Really? Could Biden provide an example that would make that statement true? Could Druken Irishman provide one example of where it is true on DU?


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(43,260 posts)
93. Lol. Over a month later and still no answer to your question.
Tue Sep 10, 2019, 01:48 AM
Sep 2019

So typical.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
94. Joe Biden's childhood struggle with a stutter: How he overcame it and how it shaped him
Mon Sep 16, 2019, 06:14 PM
Sep 2019


Valerie Biden Owens, the former vice president’s younger sister, says that one lasting impact of his childhood stutter is that it has given him more empathy and compassion for others’ trials, and it uniquely equips him to handle Trump’s taunts.

“Trump is a bully, and Joe has been standing up to bullies his entire life,” Owens said in an interview. “Joe’s stuttering, I think, is one of the principal reasons — a major, major, major reason — that he is the good and compassionate and kind man that he is.”

About 3 million Americans suffer from the speech impediment of stuttering, marked by involuntary repetition of sounds, syllables or words. According to the National Institute on Deafness and other Communication Disorders, most children outgrow their stutter, but for 25% of them, stuttering is a lifelong challenge.

Biden has overcome the serious stutter of his youth, but remnants of it resurface on occasions such as when he is very tired, he said in a 2016 speech. Experts on stuttering who follow him closely say they have noticed it on several occasions during the campaign, such as an interview on “The View” when he addressed complaints about his tendency to touch and hug women while campaigning, and an April speech in Pittsburgh launching his campaign, when he struggled with words.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
96. What Joe Biden Can't Bring Himself to Say
Thu Nov 21, 2019, 08:11 PM
Nov 2019

I was a stutter until about 4th grade. I find these attacks on Biden to be sad. This article about Joe's stuttering really hit home with me. The discussion of the movie The King's Speech was very moving for me.




In Biden’s office, the first time I bring up his current stuttering, he asks me whether I’ve seen The King’s Speech. He speaks almost mystically about the award-winning 2010 film. “When King George VI, when he stood up in 1939, everyone knew he stuttered, and they knew what courage it took for him to stand up at that stadium and try to speak—and it gave them courage … I could feel that. It was that sinking feeling, like—oh my God, I remember how you felt. You feel like, I don’t know … almost like you’re being sucked into a black hole.”

Presidential candidates usually don’t speak about their bleakest moments, certainly not this viscerally. It resembles the way Biden writes in his memoir about the aftermath of the 1972 car accident that killed his first wife and young daughter and critically injured his two sons, Beau and Hunter: “I could not speak, only felt this hollow core grow in my chest, like I was going to be sucked inside a black hole.”

A few weeks later, I ask Jill Biden what she remembers about sitting next to her husband during the movie. “It was one of those moments in a marriage where you just sort of understand without words being spoken,” she says.

As he watched The King’s Speech, Biden accurately guessed that the screenwriter, David Seidler, was a stutterer. “He showed me a copy of a speech they found in an attic that the king had actually used, where he marks his—it’s exactly what I do!” Biden tells me, his voice lifting. “My staff, when I have them put something on a prompter—I wish I had something to show you.”

I agree with Joe that it would be difficult for trump to use Joe's stutter against him
In Biden’s office, as my time is about to run out, I bring up the fact that Trump crudely mocked a disabled New York Times reporter during the 2016 campaign. “So far, he’s called you ‘Sleepy Joe.’ Is ‘St-St-St-Stuttering Joe’ next?”

“I don’t think so,” Biden says, “because if you ask the polls ‘Does Biden stutter? Has he ever stuttered?,’ you’d have 80 to 95 percent of people say no.” If Trump goes there, Biden adds, “it’ll just expose him for what he is.”

I ask Biden something else we’ve been circling: whether he worries that people would pity him if they thought he still stuttered.

He scratches his chin, his fingers trembling slightly. “Well, I guess, um, it’s kind of hard to pity a vice president. It’s kind of hard to pity a senator who’s gotten six zillion awards. It’s kind of hard to pity someone who has had, you know, a decent family. I-I-I-I don’t think if, now, if someone sits and says, ‘Well, you know, the kid, when he was a stutterer, he must have been really basically stupid,’ I-I-I don’t think it’s hard to—I’ve never thought of that. I mean, there’s nobody in the last, I don’t know, 55 years, has ever said anything like that to me.”

This is an issue that I have strong feelings about.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,055 posts)
97. Clarence Page column: Are Joe Biden's gaffes tied to stuttering?
Sun Dec 1, 2019, 01:19 AM
Dec 2019



Joe Biden and I share a problem that’s not always easy to talk about. In fact, that’s the problem. We stutter. That makes a lot of things hard to talk about.

Now that the 77-year-old former vice president is running for president, many people understandably are asking whether his notorious gaffes, bloopers and stumbles are related to his age.....

Should more voters know about Biden’s stuttering challenges? He certainly shouldn’t try to run away from it, says another stutterer, Michael Sheehan, a Washington-based communications coach who has been helping Biden prepare for debates. Passing along some campaign advice from MSNBC host Chris Matthews, who was sharing a quote favored by Robert F. Kennedy, Sheehan told me, “Always hang a lantern on a problem.”

I agree. I’m sure many readers reacted to The Atlantic revelations as Ramesh Ponnuru, senior editor at the conservative National Review, did on his magazine’s website: “I had no idea, but it helps explain some of his verbal tics.”

Indeed it does. But, politics aside, what should really matter to voters isn’t Biden’s speech problems but how well he rises above them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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