Politifact updates article on Gabbard charges against Kamala (Lockups for pot actually dropped 83%)

[bigtree]

Link to tweet

Delonté Donray ➒ @dilemmv 3h
The first averment made was that Kamala locked up 1500 people for marijuana related offenses. Politifact calls this claim “misleading” and calls it out for “lacking context. Because as AG Kamala could not personally be held responsible for prosecuting marijuana offenses.

Delonté Donray ➒ @dilemmv
(Then) They got the data from the State Agency and what it reveals is a whopper!

“Notably figures dropped dramatically during Harris’ tenure, from 817 marijuana related admissions in her first year in office to 137 in her last”.

Keith Boykin @keithboykin
So marijuana-related incarceration dropped 83% during Kamala Harris's tenure as attorney general.
11:18 AM - Aug 15, 2019

Delonté Donray ➒ @dilemmv 3h
Literally what this proves is that under Kamala Harris’ time as AG marijuana related offenses being pursued began to “significantly drop” according to @PolitiFact.

This is in line with her record as DA where she redirected black and brown men to job training programs.

[qazplm135]

1. you don't say

I'm sure we will hear from all the usual suspects who will admit and agree that this was an inaccurate attack.

[R B Garr]

91. Does the flip side of this mean you have an agenda to

“place a wedge between potential supporters” of an ex-President’s VP?? It seems we should be careful about insulting people in this manner.

[bigtree]

202. I attributed that to Gabbard and people working overtime to fan the flames of that debate encounter

...not a word about Biden or his supporters, specifically, not implied or inferred.

The entire theory behind attacking Kamala Harris' criminal justice record is to try and divide voters against her, primarily the black electorate who have been the disproportionate targets of law enforcement and may be persuaded to reject a prosecutor, on the face of her profession, and inclined to believe the smears and distortions about her actual record as a DA and as AG.

[R B Garr]

204. That's not even close to accurate. And I thought I was on

ignore.

[mcar]

9. Don't hold your breath

Please. You'd hurt yourself.

[qazplm135]

10. I won't

but I've been alerted on by Biden supporters and Biden supporters alone repeatedly so I better watch what I say

[SouthernProgressive]

64. How can I see who alerts on me? NT

[qazplm135]

65. well I've only been

alerted on when discussing Biden, so admittedly I made an assumption, but it's a pretty solid one lol

[SouthernProgressive]

69. Follow up question.

How do you know when you have been alerted on? Outside of a hide, of course.

[Go Vols]

81. people send you a PM

and tell you.
Well,the ones that agree with the post mostly.

[brush]

53. Many here, the usual suspects, jumped all over themselves to trash Harris' AG record...

after Gabbard used those winger talking points to attack her, and they persisted over several threads to say "she has to answer for her record."

Let's see, 1500 divided by the 6 years she was AG equals 250 per year (that she didn't personally prosecute), and that's out of 40,000,000 people. And the numbers declined over the 6 years. I just averaged them out.

250 out of 40,000,000 is minuscule and hardly even registers on a percentage scale. Hell in New York City during the "stop and frisk" days of Ghouliani they probably had more marijuana cases in a month than 250, yet those with an agenda against Harris were all so supportive of DINO Gabbard's attack.

[Dream Girl]

2. Russian misinformation campaign hard at work. Many will only remember Tulsi's charge

And hold that as truth. People really need to begin employing critical thinking skills.

[bigtree]

7. willful ignorance

...enables most of the propaganda.

People already looking for dirt and inclined to the same sort of debasement of Dems as the Russians are orchestrating. Their disinfo campaign relies on our own political proclivity to attack and divide.

[Eliot Rosewater]

173. That is how it works, many will throw up their hands in disgust and say

"what is the point in voting at all!"

Many I hear in the 18-29 range are saying that anyway.

sigh

[thesquanderer]

4. Good info. Yes, dropped 83% from her first year to her last. Boykin's tweet is off though.

He said "dropped 83% during Kamala Harris's tenure as attorney general" which is ambiguous, it could easily be read as meaning they dropped 83% compared to her predecessor, but we don't have her predecessor's figures. That comparison would be interesting to know.

[bigtree]

5. it's as clear as day

“Notably figures dropped dramatically during Harris’ tenure, from 817 marijuana related admissions in her first year in office to 137 in her last”.

[thesquanderer]

6. Yes, the article is correct. I was commenting on someone's tweeted interpretation. (n/t)

[bigtree]

11. you can see a steep drop in 2012, a year after she took office

...from 863 to 254

As DA, Kamala Harris had pioneered a program to combat recidivism, called 'Back on Track' as early as 2004. It was described as a model for the U.S. Justice Dept.

It shouldn't be a surprise to find her practicing what she had been preaching about alternatives to incarceration for years, after assuming the statewide post.

[mcar]

8. So Tulsi lied

What a surprise!

[Princetonian]

12. No. "Fact-checking the Democratic debate attacks against Kamala Harris" (San Francisco Chronicle)

The following information was updated by the reporter Joe Garofoli on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m.

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The context: The Gabbard campaign pointed to a February article in the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative media outlet, headlined, “Kamala Harris Packed California Prisons With Pot Peddlers” as attorney general. The article cited statistics from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation that said “at least 1,560 people were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses between 2011 and 2016” during the time Harris was the state AG. On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

If anything, it looked like Tulsi Gabbard underestimated.

[bigtree]

14. The paragraph OMITS that this came from Free Beacon

...HERE'S THE ACTUAL PARAGRAPH:

"The Gabbard campaign pointed to a February article in the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative media outlet, headlined, “Kamala Harris Packed California Prisons With Pot Peddlers” as attorney general."

Politifact sets the record straight.

What you did, essentially, was post the Free Beacon propaganda, NOTHING ELSE, and claimed this gave truth to Gabbard's claims.

Garofoli wrote NOTHING that would dispute Politifact, or prove Gabbard's claims. Here's his actual word-salad equivocation about what he chose to post in his article (rw tripe) :

Harris didn’t back legalizing cannabis for recreational use until last year, two years after California voters did. She also opposed a statewide ballot measure to legalize weed in 2010, when she was San Francisco’s district attorney and running to be state attorney general. Harris called that proposal “flawed public policy.”

And the laughing? Harris admitted to smoking weed in college during a radio show appearance in February and laughed when asked if she supported legalization. “Half my family’s from Jamaica. Are you kidding me?” Her father, who was born in Jamaica, wasn’t laughing when he heard about his daughter’s comments. Donald Harris wrote that his family “must be turning in their grave right now to see their family’s name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity” being connected with the “fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker.”

You're using Free Beacon's words, VERBATIM, to re-level this charge just DISPROVED by Politifact!

YOU FUCKING CLIPPED OUT THE PART ABOUT THE CLAIM COMING FROM FREE BEACON... DIDN'T WANT TO EXPOSE THE RW SOURCE OF YOUR SMEAR?

And you posted this link to this person who obviously has no intention of telling the truth about this Democratic Senator's actual record.

[Princetonian]

17. lol... that is irrelevent to the fact that the San Francisco Chronicle backs up Tulsi Gabbard.

In fact, Gabbard UNDERESTIMATED, according to the SF Chronicle. I am sure Gabbard has updated her facts by now so partisans will not be able to accuse her of lying again.

[bigtree]

18. not one sentence in that article 'backs up Gabbard' outside of reposting rw propaganda

...from Free Beacon, as you've done here.

Why did you clip that line about the charges being from a conservative news source? You must have known this is a rw based attack. Why are you spreading that here at DU?

YOU ARE CONTINUING TO CITE FIGURES FROM A RIGHT-WING PROPAGANDA PIECE. I don't believe that you don't know these charges (and the numbers you're quoting) originated from a right-wing source, Free Beacon.

[Princetonian]

20. I respectfully disagree with your characterization.

The following information was updated by San Francisco Chronicle reporter Joe Garofoli on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m.

"The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The context: The Gabbard campaign pointed to a February article in the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative media outlet, headlined, “Kamala Harris Packed California Prisons With Pot Peddlers” as attorney general. The article cited statistics from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation that said “at least 1,560 people were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses between 2011 and 2016” during the time Harris was the state AG. On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

If anything, it looked like Tulsi Gabbard underestimated.

[W_HAMILTON]

33. It's false, and doubling down on a debunked conservative source isn't a good look.

As noted in one of the fact checking articles, the Attorney General doesn't even prosecute marijuana-related crimes -- that would be up to the District Attorneys.

[Princetonian]

34. You mean the same "conservative source" that the OP quotes?

The reporter updated his San Francisco Debate Fact Check article after a spokesman for the CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation told him it was a higher number than what Tulsi Gabbard said. If Politifact had bothered to do the same, I would not be correcting the OP.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. Sigh...here you go:

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

Gabbard appears to be referring to the number of Californians who were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses while Harris was state attorney general. The conservative Washington Free Beacon reported this year that at least 1,560 people went to prison for pot during Harris’ tenure from 2011 through 2016, citing reports from the California corrections department that are no longer available on their website. A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period.

But the attorney general’s office doesn’t directly prosecute the vast majority of drug cases in the state. That’s up to the individual district attorneys in each county, and it’s wrong to say Harris put those people in jail.

Taken from: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

Once again, please stop doubling down on false claims that originated from a conservative """news""" source to denigrate a Democratic candidate -- it isn't a good look.

[Princetonian]

45. As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. The Mercury Press backs up the SF Chronicle's updated numbers.

The Mercury Press Debate Fact Check confirms what the San Francisco Chronicle Debate Factcheck reporter Joe Garofoli said in his updated article:

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Too bad Politifact did not do the same, eh?

[bigtree]

46. HERE ARE THE ACTUAL NUMBERS FROM THE ACTUAL SOURCE

THEIR OFFICIAL FIGURES SHOW AN 83% DROP IN INCARCERATIONS FOR POT RELATED OFFENSES OVER KAMALA HARRIS' TERM, BEGINNING WITH A SHARP DROP IN YEAR ONE.

[Princetonian]

48. I thought you were done talking to me? The Mercury Press and San Francisco Chronicle concur...

... on the numbers because they actually bothered to speak to a CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman unlike Politifact.

[Princetonian]

54. I respectfully agree, bigtree.

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2019, 08:19 PM - Edit history (2)

Star Member bigtree (74,850 posts)
49. I AM DONE TALKING TO YOU

...ONE MORE THING.

<snip the lazy reporting by Politifact which is not bigtree's fault>

...AND HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY ON MY THREADS. GETTIN' TO KNOW THE PRINCETONIAN. IT'S BEEN AN EYE-OPENER.

[bigtree]

74. THIS IS A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT

...FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

This versus Joe Garofoli.

[Princetonian]

78. Why did the department spokesman give 1974 as the number to both newspapers this past week?

Both The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle updated their respective Debate Fact Checks with this information. The Mercury Press Debate Fact Check confirms what the San Francisco Chronicle Debate Factcheck reporter Joe Garofoli said in his updated August 1, 2019 article.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

The only logical conclusion is the website is not correct or is incomplete.

[bigtree]

79. .

[jcgoldie]

82. welcome back oberliner

[George II]

88. Bazinga!

[bigtree]

92. lol

[JI7]

93. ohhhh ??? that makes a lot of sense now

[MrsCoffee]

101. Omg thank you.

Now I get it.

[George II]

171. Soon after graduating from High School, a good friend of mine...

...went to Oberlin College, another went to Princeton University.

I stayed home and went to a small private college in lower Manhattan (btw, my girlfriend went to Manhattan College!!)

[NYMinute]

193. I had a friend

Who was expelled from Oberlin College and 2 months later, he joined Princeton where he was seen as odd. I wonder if he ever graduated.

[Eliot Rosewater]

154. Oh my

[Andy823]

28. I am curious

Why don't you have Gabbard as your preferred candidate in stead of Biden? You always seem to defend her, and that doesn't help Biden. What not admit you are for Gabbard?

[lapucelle]

59. ...

[Princetonian]

63. lol

[lapucelle]

67. ...

[Eliot Rosewater]

155. I can think of only two reasons anyone would support Gabbard.

[Dream Girl]

13. But no one will remember that the lie was a lie

[Princetonian]

15. Inconvenient facts can lead to willful ignorance.

It just shows,” says Hawaii congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, “that launching a smear campaign is the only response to the truth.”

Gabbard, 38, burst into headlines after a July 31 Democratic Party presidential debate, when she went after California Senator Kamala Harris’s record as Attorney General of the State of California. The “smear campaign” refers to the bizarre avalanche of negative press that ensued, as reporters seemed to circle wagons around a Harris, a party favorite... backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

Harris national press chair Ian Sams tweeted, “Yo, you love Assad!”, a reference to Gabbard’s controversial visit with Syrian president Bashar al-Assad in 2017. He then tweeted a link to an insidious February 2 NBC News story, which asserted that Gabbard’s campaign was the beneficiary of Russian bots.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/podcast-tulsi-gabbard-kamala-harris-syria-iraq-870003/

In other words, according to Rolling Stone's political reporter, Harris and her national press chair Ian Sams (who is quoted in this article) chose to Attack the Messenger rather than refute the charges. A presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee and her/his campaign staff should be able to address charges honestly.

[bigtree]

16. the 'charges' are old and disproved.

...you're reduced to spreading Gabbard's lies, and by extension, right-wing, conservative originated lies.

Is this in defense of Biden? I don't see your candidate doing this.

[Princetonian]

19. Neither The San Francisco Chronicle nor Rolling Stone are "right-wing, conservative" purveyors.

I am defending the truth which is important to me. It is also important to Joe who is not a racist.

[Princetonian]

22. Everyone here can see that I posted an excerpt from The San Francisco Chronicle Debate Fact Check.

Here, so you and "everyone" can see it once again. Blame San Francisco Joe Garofoli not me. But i thank him for getting it right.

The following information was updated by the reporter Joe Garofoli on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m.

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The context: The Gabbard campaign pointed to a February article in the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative media outlet, headlined, “Kamala Harris Packed California Prisons With Pot Peddlers” as attorney general. The article cited statistics from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation that said “at least 1,560 people were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses between 2011 and 2016” during the time Harris was the state AG. On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

If anything, it looked like Tulsi Gabbard underestimated.



What are you shouting about? I didn't realize you and Bernie have a similar way of communicating.

[mcar]

26. She did her job

[Dream Girl]

50. Exactly!

And I'm for Biden...

[Eliot Rosewater]

156. KGB is working daily on message boards and Twitter to get people NOT to trust Kamala

[Princetonian]

157. Lord, give me strength!

[Eliot Rosewater]

158. I dont think it is funny, they did it in 2016 and are doing it again.

I , as a real democrat and liberal would never laugh at the FACT that the russians are working to harm our candidates.

Weird that you think it is funny

[Princetonian]

166. "to get people NOT to trust Kamala" is the funny part of what you said

Yeah right.

[mcar]

159. They sure are

[Eliot Rosewater]

160. I cant IMAGINE anyone reacting to that statement of FACT by laughing, can you?

Even a registered republican might think it is wrong for our enemy to influence our election. Not all of them of course, but I know some who would NOT laugh at that comment.

[mcar]

161. I'm taking it very seriously

Shame on anyone who didn't learn from 2016.

[Eliot Rosewater]

162. I think all democrats and all decent republicans are taking it seriously.

[DesertRat]

23. K&R

[Hortensis]

24. Lockups for pot DROPPED 83% under Kamala.

What is it about liberal that people don't understand? We're not the viciously punitive ones, those are conservatives, strong conservatives. And if we were in power all the time, there'd be no viciously punitive laws in place for liberal AGs to have to work around to achieve something closer to justice.

[Princetonian]

25. Not according to a CA Dep't. Of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman...

The following information was updated by the reporter Joe Garofoli on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m. for his Debate Fact Check article that first appeared in The San Francisco Chronicle right after the second debate:

"The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana... On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Tulsi Gabbard underestimated not overestimated.

[Princetonian]

29. Did Politifact bother to speak to a CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman?

Because San Francisco Chronicle reporter Joe Garofoli did, just this past Thursday. The following was updated by him on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m. for his Debate Fact Check article that first appeared in The San Francisco Chronicle right after the second debate:

"The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana... On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

This proves Tulsi Gabbard did get the numbers wrong -- she actually underestimated!

[Princetonian]

32. I respectfully disagree.

[bigtree]

36. JOE FUCKNUT GARAFOLI ISN'T WITH THE CORRECTIONS DEPT.

...HERE ARE THE ACTUAL NUMBERS FROM THE CALIFORNIA DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION.



THEY WERE GENERATED BY THAT OFFICE ON AUG.1, 2019

[SidDithers]

38. Some posters aren't interested in facts...nt

Sid

[Princetonian]

42. Irony is dead.

[bigtree]

44. THAT WORD DOESN'T MEAN WHAT YOU THINK IT DOES.

[Princetonian]

52. I respectfully disagree.

[bigtree]

77. .

[SidDithers]

57. Oh it's you...nt

Sid

[Princetonian]

41. No need to shout, bigtree. Anyway, strawman fail. I never said he was.

The following was updated by San Francisco Chronicle reporter Joe Garofoli on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m. for his Debate Fact Check article that first appeared in The San Francisco Chronicle right after the second debate:

"The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana... On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

I choose to believe the spokesman not a likely outdated website. Politifact really ought to do a better job in the future. If they had also called, the they could have reported the truth.

[bigtree]

43. WE'RE DONE TALKING ANYWAY

...MAYBE JUST ONE MORE THING.



THE CITATION ON THE RELEASE IS FROM AUG 1, 2019.

IT'S AS LEAST AS RECENT AS THE BULLSHIT FACT CHECK YOU POSTED WITH THE RW QUOTES.

[Claritie Pixie]

72. Insisting you're right when you're not, persistently.

Fascinating.

[Princetonian]

73. I am right if you believe in well-sourced facts over baseless invective.

The Mercury Press Debate Fact Check confirms what the San Francisco Chronicle Debate Factcheck reporter Joe Garofoli said in his updated August 1, 2019 article. Here are the facts if you're interested:

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

If the OP source Politifact had done the same as The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle and actually called the department spokesman for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, Politifact would have reached the same conclusion: Tulsi Gabbard was not only right, she underestimated the number. Politifact is wrong.

[bigtree]

75. .

[Princetonian]

119. Your OP proves Gabbard was telling the truth: 1883 + 92 is 1975

The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman told both The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle the number is 1974 so one person got lucky. Close enough.

[bigtree]

126. ...THE HAND

[Me.]

31. Free Beacon & Tulsi

consider the sources

[Princetonian]

35. Um, Free Beacon figures prominently in the OP in an excerpt.

Do as I say not as I do?

Politifact did not confirm their facts with a spokesman from the CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

Because San Francisco Chronicle reporter Joe Garofoli did, just this past Thursday. The following was updated by him on Aug. 1, 2019 10:09 p.m. for his Debate Fact Check article that first appeared in The San Francisco Chronicle right after the second debate:

"The attack: Gabbard said Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana... On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

This proves Tulsi Gabbard did get the numbers wrong -- she underestimated!!!

[bigtree]

37. .

CITATION ON CHART: THE CALIFORNIA DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION.

[Me.]

47. Um, I Think I'll Go With Politifact

“There’s some context missing in this claim, and it’s framed in a misleading way. We couldn’t independently verify the 1,500 figure, which is cited in a February article by the Free Beacon, a conservative online news website. It says "at least 1,560 people were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses between 2011 and 2016," when Harris was California attorney general. It says the data comes from reports from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. We requested that data from the state prisons agency.

The agency’s data shows there were 1,883 admissions to state prison on marijuana offenses during the years Harris was attorney general. There were another 92 admissions for crimes related to hashish, a drug made from cannabis resin. Notably, the figures dropped dramatically during Harris’ tenure, from 817 marijuana-related admissions in her first year in office to 137 in her last….

Also, as attorney general, Harris would not have personally prosecuted marijuana cases. Those cases would have been handled by lower-level state attorneys.

It’s correct that Harris has laughed about using marijuana, but Gabbard’s claim makes it seem like she laughed about people being locked up for pot crimes. We didn’t find any evidence to support that. “

https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

[Princetonian]

51. The Mercury Press & The San Francisco Chronicle concur on 1974 as the correct updated number.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Too bad Politifact did not do the same as The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle and just pick up the phone to speak to a spokesman for the CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation, to get the truth, eh?

I will not trust lazy folks at Politifact again for anything after this.

[Me.]

56. Like I Said...

Last edited Thu Aug 15, 2019, 06:22 PM - Edit history (1)

You may not like it but are entitled. As far as TG goes, she's a fine one to throw shade around.

[sweetloukillbot]

80. They were off by one in the reporting

1883 +92= 1975. They appear to be counting one hash arrest from 2017. With the exception of the 82 hash arrests, which should have only been 81 the numbers match...

[bigtree]

96. EXCEPT KAMALA HARRIS WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE PROSECUTIONS

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

...THEY WERE HANDLED BY LOWER-LEVEL ATTORNEYS.

SO THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THIS ATTACK IS FALSE, ON ITS FACE. WHETHER NUMBERS FROM THE FREE BEACON'S RIGHT WING HIT PIECE ARE CORRECT OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT. THE IMPORTANT NUMBER IS THE STEEP RATE OF DECREASE IN INCARCERATIONS FOR POT RELATED OFFENSES DURING HER TERM, BEGINNING THE SECOND YEAR OF HER TERM AS AG.

THAT NUMBER IS NOT SURPRISING TO ANYONE FAMILIAR WITH HER 'BACK ON TRACK' ANTI-RECIDIVISM PROGRAM WHICH DRAMATICALLY REDUCED INCARCERATIONS FOR LOW LEVEL OFFENSES BY PROVIDING ALTERNATIVES TO JAIL.


IF YOU'RE GETTING FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG, YOU'RE DOING DEMOCRATIC POLITICS WRONG.

[Princetonian]

102. As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. And DUers have never been averse to using Free Beacon before.

As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. Her office had alot of public issues with prosecutorial misconduct: https://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-lying-prosecutors-20150201-story.html

If she could not do her job properly as a state AG, then she is not ready to be President, VP, or DoJ AG.

DUers have used Free Beacon when it suited their needs:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1410802

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511776194

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027740583

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1090798

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511892399

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210982207

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280105597

And dozens more...

to wlydwolf

CNN asked Harris about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute Gabbard's claims.

[bigtree]

107. WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE

...YOU'RE REALLY SCRAPING BOTTOM.

SERIOUSLY, PULLING SHIT OUT OF THE FUCKING GUTTER, SHAMELESSLY SO.

[Princetonian]

108. The 1974 number is confirmed by a department spokesman. Politifact uses those numbers.

As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. Her office had alot of public issues with prosecutorial misconduct: https://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-lying-prosecutors-20150201-story.html

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

If she could not do her job properly as a state AG, then she is not ready to be President, VP, or DoJ AG.

DUers have used Free Beacon when it suited their needs:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1410802

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511776194

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027740583

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1090798

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511892399

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210982207

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280105597

And dozens more...

to wlydwolf

CNN asked Harris about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute Gabbard's claims.

[bigtree]

111. IRRELEVANT

"...as attorney general, Harris would not have personally prosecuted marijuana cases. Those cases would have been handled by lower-level state attorneys."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE...

[Princetonian]

113. The buck stops at the top.Harris refuted nothing when CNN asked her about it and played the video.

[bigtree]

115. .

***83% DROP IN INCARCERATIONS DURING HER TERM, SHARP DROP OFF IN THE FIRST YEAR**

[Princetonian]

121. Harris did directly prosecute marijuana cases as San Francisco district attorney from 2004-2010

According to Mercury News: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

This turns my stomach:

Death row appeals

Tulsi Gabbard: “She blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from death row until the courts forced her to do so. In the case of those who were on death row, innocent people, you actually blocked evidence from being revealed that would have freed them until you were forced to do so.”

The facts: Harris’s attorney general office did block DNA testing that some legal observers believe could have helped overturn the murder conviction of a death row inmate who has insisted he was framed.

Harris opposed efforts by lawyers for Kevin Cooper, a death row inmate from San Bernardino County, to get new DNA testing. In 2018, following a New York Times investigation into the case, Harris said she was wrong and called for further testing.

No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump after the second debate!

Gabbard was also correct that Harris "fought to keep a cash bail system in place that impacts poor people in the worst kind of way.”

[bigtree]

125. GABBARD'S CHARGES COVERED HER TIME AS AG

...DIVERSION FAIL.

[Princetonian]

133. As AG, the buck stops at the top. On CNN, Harris did not refute Gabbard's claims.

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2019, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

[R B Garr]

197. "Bleating". Then it's understandable when Biden ignores

the bleating as well.

[SidDithers]

39. Yup...nt

Sid

[lapucelle]

55. Narratives based on wrong facts and misleading innuendo appear to be working already.

Millennials, Rappers, and Revolution: Inside Bernie Sanders’s Playbook for Winning the Black Vote

Mensa, who had headlined a Sanders fund-raiser the night before at Hollywood’s Montalbán theater, said he remains a steadfast supporter. What matters most, said Mensa, 26, is Sanders’s record fighting for civil rights, which stretches back to the 1960s.

snip===================================================================

Mensa, speaking from his home in L.A.’s upscale Silver Lake neighborhood, focused his criticism on Harris.

“Kamala Harris is a cop,” he said. “She’s a tough-on-crime prosecutor. That’s like the opposite of a revolutionary, and I could never vote for her.… I’m not impressed because she’s a woman of color, because I recognize what neocolonialism is, and I recognize that token black people are propped up to positions within the imperialistic, patriarchal, white supremacist state that is America to enforce all of those ideologies.

That is a prosecutor—to prosecute those who reject the white supremacist, patriarchal state.”

A Sanders campaign spokeswoman said Mensa did not speak for the campaign.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/bernie-sanders-playbook-for-winning-the-black-vote

[Me.]

58. "Mensa did not speak for the campaign"

and yet, it got said

[lapucelle]

60. "I recognize that token black people are propped up to positions within the imperialistic,

patriarchal, white supremacist state that is America to enforce all of those ideologies."

What a horrible thing to say about an accomplished woman and Democratic senator.

It's unfathomable that Vic Mensa would characterize Kamala Harris as a token POC, propped up to advance the agenda of patriarchal white politicians.

[Me.]

62. THe BUck Stops At The Top

and I don't believe for ONE minute that he doesn't know what's being said

[SidDithers]

61. DUrec...

Facts are good.

Sid

[SouthernProgressive]

68. Gabbard really took some shots that probably hurt Harris.

The shots were covered a lot but few will see that some of it was lies. That is the difficult part about these attacks. Without an immediate and vigorous defense they will stick with more people.

The timing of it was horrible for Harris. She had some momentum. Harris is one of the few I can see making a move and she is by no means down and out. Biden has endured similar shady attacks and is doing well. Some of those attacks came with a insinuation of racism. Few things stick to someone like that.

[Claritie Pixie]

70. Ah yes, the attack-and-make-shit-up tactic.

A tactic used daily by you-know-who.

Ugly behavior no matter who does it.

[SouthernProgressive]

71. Gabbard is a strange one for me.

I’ve never called her a Russian puppet or DINO. But I can’t figure out her agenda or how she arrives at her tactics. I do feel very confident that she isn’t on my team. I think more of it has to do with her upbringing than anything else.

I’m not even sure she knows she lied. Seems a lot of folks were willing to go with similar numbers to what Gabbard did. Doesn’t mean I trust her. I want her to go away.

[Princetonian]

194. Gabbard gives her reasons for running in this at-times tough interview on The View. Hope this helps.

I checked out of curiosity after reading your post and another poster's similar question. This is a good interview and answers many questions that people like you have honestly asked.

This is an helpful insight into Gabbard: then Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee Representative Tulsi Gabbard gave high public praise to Barack and Joe iduring her 2012 convention speech. She, like many soldiers, are loyal to those who have done good to those who served. Gabbard has been in the National Guard since 2003 and serving honorably in the Iraq War. She took two weeks off the campaign trail to go to military maneuvers in Indonesia in service to the National Guard. This is the patriot some spiteful partisans have felt the need to smear.

'At the 2012 Democratic National Convention, Gabbard praised President Obama, a fellow-Hawaiian, and Vice-President Joe Biden, along with their wives, as “the strongest advocates our military families could ever have.”'

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/what-does-tulsi-gabbard-believe

Tulsi showed that loyalty to Joe when she surprised many by fiercely defending Joe after Harris attacked by implying Joe is a racist during the first debate. I believe she helped Joe when no other candidate would defend him.

'Gabbard hits Harris "for false accusation that Biden is a racist":
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/451962-tulsi-gabbard-slams-kamala-harris-it-was-a-false-accusation-that-joe-biden

I stand with those who stand with Joe.

[guillaumeb]

76. Recommended.

This is what happens when memes are met with actual facts.

[Princetonian]

84. The number in the OP differs from the number (1974) given by the department spokesman this past week

... to two different reporters who wanted to update their newspapers' Debate Fact Check of the second debate. The CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman gave the same number to both the reporter from The Mercury Press and to the reporter from The San Francisco Chronicle.

The Mercury Press Debate Fact Check confirms what the San Francisco Chronicle Debate Factcheck reporter Joe Garofoli said in his updated August 1, 2019 article. Here are the facts if you're interested:

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Unless you believe that the department spokesman is lying, then the website data that Politifact is using is outdated or incomplete.

[bigtree]

95. HERE'S THE DOCUMENT RELEASED BY THE STATE. WHERE'S YOUR PROOF?

...SHOW US AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT THAT PROVES WHAT YOU'RE CLAIMING.

NOT JUST MEALY-MOUTHED CLAIMS FROM A COLUMNIST, AND A PARAGRAPH FROM A RIGHT-WING HIT PIECE.

HERE'S THE PROOF, INCARCERATIONS FOR POT-RELATED OFFENSES DROPPED SHARPLY THE **FIRST YEAR** OF HER TERM AS AG, FROM 863 JAILINGS, TO 254 THE SECOND YEAR. I'D PUT THAT RECORD UP AGAINST ANY PROSECUTOR IN THE NATION.



GABBARD LIED HER ASS OFF.

"'Gabbard’s claim makes it seem like she laughed about people being locked up for pot crimes. We didn’t find any evidence to support that."

https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

[Princetonian]

104. Read your own OP: 1883 + 92 equals 1975

The department spokesman told The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle the number was 1974, so one person got lucky. Close enough.

[bigtree]

106. THOSE NUMBERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH KAMALA HARRIS

...

ALSO, YOU LIFTED THOSE NUMBERS FROM A RIGHT WING HIT PIECE IN THE FREE BEACON, ENTITLED, '“Kamala Harris Packed California Prisons With Pot Peddlers”

KAMALA HARRIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THOSE NUMBERS OR THOSE ARRESTS.

"...as attorney general, Harris would not have personally prosecuted marijuana cases. Those cases would have been handled by lower-level state attorneys."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE, YOU'RE REALLY SCRAPING BOTTOM.

[ucrdem]

116. Of course they do. And compare her numbers to Becerra's to see why. nt

[bigtree]

120. YOU MEAN IN THE YEARS WHERE LEGALIZATION AND DECRIMINALIZATION WAS SWEEPING THE NATION?

...THE MAN WHO FOLLOWED THE WOMAN WHO OVERSAW THE STEEP DECLINE IN INCARCERATIONS?

BWAAAAA!!

[ucrdem]

129. California has legalized marijuana use regularly since 1996:

https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_215,_the_Medical_Marijuana_Initiative_(1996)

[bigtree]

132. MISLEADING

"...marijuana sales and possession remained illegal under state law during Harris’ time as attorney general. California voters legalized recreational pot in 2016, the same year Harris was elected to the U.S. Senate and left her AG post."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

[Princetonian]

122. Harris directly prosecuted marijuana cases as DA from 2004-2010

Harris did directly prosecute marijuana cases as San Francisco district attorney from 2004-2010

According to Mercury News: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

This especially turns my stomach:

Death row appeals

Tulsi Gabbard: “She blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from death row until the courts forced her to do so. In the case of those who were on death row, innocent people, you actually blocked evidence from being revealed that would have freed them until you were forced to do so.”

The facts: Harris’s attorney general office did block DNA testing that some legal observers believe could have helped overturn the murder conviction of a death row inmate who has insisted he was framed.

Harris opposed efforts by lawyers for Kevin Cooper, a death row inmate from San Bernardino County, to get new DNA testing. In 2018, following a New York Times investigation into the case, Harris said she was wrong and called for further testing.

No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump all of a sudden!

Gabbard was also correct that Harris "fought to keep a cash bail system in place that impacts poor people in the worst kind of way.”

[Go Vols]

83. Freedom Leaf requested public records...

from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. The request was approved on July 24.

Here’s what we discovered: The total number of people admitted to prison for felony marijuana offenses during Harris’ two terms as California’s attorney general from 2011-2016 was 1,876, not 1,560. Except for one year, the numbers the Free Beacon quoted are incorrect. The offenses include marijuana possession for sale, marijuana sales and other offenses such as cultivation and sales to minors.

The admission numbers from 2011-2016 are:

2011 – 817

2012 – 244

2013 – 210

2014 – 245

2015 – 183

2016 – 137

It’s important to note that, from the time Harris was elected AG to when she left office, admissions to prison for marijuana offenses in California declined by 83.2%.

Also, California further decriminalized its marijuana law in 2010, which may have contributed to this drop in prison admissions.




https://www.freedomleaf.com/kamala-harris-on-cannabis/

[bigtree]

85. here's what you're missing

...those numbers DO NOT SUPERCEDE THE FIGURES FROM THE CALIFORNIA DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS OUTLINED IN THE CHART PROVIDED.

THOSE ARE THE REAL NUMBERS, NOT SOME INVENTION FROM FREE BEACON OR ANYONE ELSE. DEAL WITH THIS, BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY OFFICIAL DOCUMENT PROVIDED BY ANYONE, I MEAN ANYONE.



AND KAMALA HARRIS, AS AG WOULD NOT HAVE PERSONALLY OVERSEEN OR PROSECUTED THESE CASES, AS STATED BY AN EXHAUSTIVE NUMBER OF OFFICIALS AND OBSERVERS.

TULSI AND FREE BEACON, AND THEIR DEFENDERS DON'T HAVE ANY OFFICIAL DOCUMENT TO BECK UP THEIR CLAIMS. ALL THEY CAN DO IS WAVE AROUND THE FREE BEACON PROPAGANDA PIECE, AND DON'T TRY AND REPRESENT IT AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT HER AT DU WHERE WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO PROMOTE RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY THEORIES OR OTHER PROPAGANDA FROM THE RIGHT-WING. DEFENDING FREE BEACON WON'T CUT IT HERE.

[Go Vols]

86. pretty much what I posted

from the Calif. DOC, except you don't provide a link.

[Princetonian]

87. Politifact confirms that Tulsi was telling the truth and actually underestimated the number!

Following the tweet's Politifact link, one reads this:

The agency’s data shows there were 1,883 admissions to state prison on marijuana offenses during the years Harris was attorney general. There were another 92 admissions for crimes related to hashish, a drug made from cannabis resin.

https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

So when the CA Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokesman gave the number as 1974 to The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle, they were adding the hashish crimes to the marijuana offenses.

[bigtree]

89. IRRELEVANT

[Princetonian]

90. No, it's very relevant because Gabbard is accused of lying but your OP proves she is not.

Thank you for helping prove Tulsi Gabbard's claim with this OP.

to Go Vols

[ucrdem]

98. No, she clearly didn't. And if you want to see progressive prosecution, check 2017 and 2018. nt

[bigtree]

99. HERE

"...as attorney general, Harris would not have personally prosecuted marijuana cases. Those cases would have been handled by lower-level state attorneys."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

GABBARD LIED...

THIS is a progressive prosecutor:

...as DA from 2004 to 2011, Kamala Harris opposed both Proposition 22 and Proposition 8, which limited marriage to one man and one woman. Though they passed in 2000 and 2008, respectively, both were struck down while she was in office. As San Francisco DA, Harris also created a Hate Crimes Unit aimed at prosecuting hate crimes committed against LGBTQ teens in school.

Harris’s early support of marriage equality in California directly laid the legal groundwork for the US Supreme Court’s decision in 2012 that same-sex couples have the right to marry. The Court cited California’s success in striking down Prop 8 in its opinion. Within hours of the decision, plaintiffs to the Supreme Court case Kris Perry and Sandy Stier became the first gay couple to wed in San Francisco, and Harris officiated their wedding.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/16/15808396/kamala-harris-democrat-rising-star-interrupted

PROGRESSIVE PROSECUTORS DO THINGS LIKE THIS

[Princetonian]

105. As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. Your OP confirms Gabbard's claim: 1883+92 is 1975

As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. Her office had alot of public issues with prosecutorial misconduct: https://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-lying-prosecutors-20150201-story.html

If she could not do her job properly as a state AG, then she is not ready to be President, VP, or DoJ AG.

DUers have used Free Beacon when it suited their needs:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1410802

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511776194

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027740583

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1090798

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511892399

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210982207

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280105597

And dozens more...

to wlydwolf

CNN asked Harris about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute Gabbard's claims.

[bigtree]

109. GABBARD'S NUMBERS HAD ***ZERO*** TO DO WITH KAMALA HARRIS

THE CHART POLITIFACT PROVIDED IS RELEVANT TO KAMALA HARRIS, BUT NOT THE WAY GABBARD FRAMED IT.

DA HARRIS, IN 2004, INTRODUCED HER 'BACK ON TRACK' ANTI-RECIDIVISM PROGRAM WHICH DRAMATICALLY REDUCED INCARCERATIONS FOR LOW LEVEL OFFENSES BY PROVIDING ALTERNATIVES TO JAIL. SHE TOOK THE PROGRAM STATEWIDE IN 2016.

THAT ANTI-RECIDIVISM PROGRAM IS EVIDENT IN THE DRAMATIC DROP IN INCARCERATIONS DURING HER TERM AS AG, BEGINNING THE 2ND YEAR OF HER TERM. THE CHART SHOWS A STEEP DROP IN JAILINGS IN 2012, A YEAR AFTER SHE TOOK OFFICE. THAT'S SOMETHING SHE WOULD HAVE HAD A DIRECT IMPACT ON, NOT ACTUAL ARRESTS AND PROSECUTIONS OF POT RELATED OFFENSES, AS GABBARD FALSELY CLAIMED.

****THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SAW AN 83% DROP IN POT RELATED INCARCERATIONS DURING KAMALA HARRIS' TERM AS AG.****

FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA (NOT SOME COLUMNIST NO ONE HAS EVER HEARD ABOUT, OR A HOMOPHOBIC ASSAD APOLOGIST.)




WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE, YOU'RE REALLY SCRAPING THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL.

[ucrdem]

110. Did she personally usher them into their cells? No but as AG the buck stopped with her. nt

[bigtree]

134. THEN SHE SHOULD BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR KEEPING MOST OF THEM OUT OF JAIL

...AN ***83%*** DROP IN INCARCERATIONS OVER HER TERM, BEGINNING WITH A STEEP DROP IN HER FIRST YEAR AS AG.

[Princetonian]

112. The buck stops at the top. Gabbard told the truth.

The number of 1974 have been confirmed to The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle by a spokesman for the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Too bad Politifact did not do the same as The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle and just pick up the phone to speak to a spokesman for the CA Dep't. of Corrections and Rehabilitation, to get the truth, eh?

I will not trust lazy folks at Politifact again for anything after this.

[bigtree]

114. WHEN YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES FROM A RIGHT WING RAG TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE...

[ucrdem]

117. That picture says it all. nt

[bigtree]

123. IT SAYS, ENOUGH OF THE BULLSHIT CHARGES

...AND WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN CANDIDATE'S CRIMINAL JUSTICE RECORD.



...THE HAND.

[Princetonian]

124. Harris directly prosecuted marijuana cases as DA from 2004-2010

Harris did directly prosecute marijuana cases as San Francisco district attorney from 2004-2010

According to Mercury News: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

This especially turns my stomach:

Death row appeals

Tulsi Gabbard: “She blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from death row until the courts forced her to do so. In the case of those who were on death row, innocent people, you actually blocked evidence from being revealed that would have freed them until you were forced to do so.”

The facts: Harris’s attorney general office did block DNA testing that some legal observers believe could have helped overturn the murder conviction of a death row inmate who has insisted he was framed.

Harris opposed efforts by lawyers for Kevin Cooper, a death row inmate from San Bernardino County, to get new DNA testing. In 2018, following a New York Times investigation into the case, Harris said she was wrong and called for further testing.

No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump all of a sudden!

Gabbard was also correct that Harris "fought to keep a cash bail system in place that impacts poor people in the worst kind of way.”

[bigtree]

128. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF THAT DNA EVIDENCE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO PROVE HIM INNOCENT?

...IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE THE TESTS WERE ORDERED. **TWO** PREVIOUS DNA TESTS SHOWED THAT COOPER WAS THE KILLER.

OH...

"While Gov. Gavin Newsom of California has ordered additional DNA testing in the case and a number of legal and judicial experts say that Mr. Cooper was wrongfully convicted, the advanced testing has not yet proved Mr. Cooper’s innocence and allowed him to leave death row."

ANY FEELINGS OF SICKNESS FOR THE VICTIMS? COOPER WAS TRIED AND CONVICTED. HE'S HAD MORE THAN HIS DAY IN COURT, DESPITE THE CONCLUSIONS OF A NEWSPAPER COLUMNIST.

WHY DID BROWN AND NEWSOME DECLINE TO PARDON HIM?
_______________________________

KAMALA HARRIS ADVOCATED INCREASING BAIL FOR VIOLENT OFFENDERS WHO HAD USED A WEAPON IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME, INCLUDING DOMESTIC ABUSERS.

"Shortly thereafter, San Francisco's Superior Court judges moved to sharply increase cash bail costs for weapons-related felony charges, including assault with a firearm and the sale of machine guns."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

FROM 2004:

The bail for assault with a firearm, for instance, will jump from $35,000 to $75,000 -- far surpassing the $50,000 bail for the same crime in Marin, Contra Costa and San Mateo counties.

Get arrested for possessing or selling a machine gun in San Francisco and bail will rocket from $25,000 to $100,000 -- putting the usually lenient city on par with Alameda County.

And bail for selling or possessing assault weapons -- which are turning up more and more often in gang-related shootings -- will rise from $20,000 to $75,000. That's still $25,000 less than Contra Costa County.

Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said the new bail schedule will make the city at least consistent with surrounding Bay Area counties. "This is a big deal," he said.

SO, YOU'RE AGAINST HIGHER BAIL FOR VIOLENT OFFENDERS WITH GUNS, AND MACHINE GUN MERCHANTS. GOT IT.

[Princetonian]

135. Ask Harris. She's the one who refused a DNA test for Cooper until a NYT expose forced her to recant

"One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

In 1983, four people were murdered in a home in Chino Hills, Calif. The sole survivor of the attack said three white intruders had committed the murders. Then a woman told the police that her boyfriend, a white convicted murderer, was probably involved, and she gave deputies his bloody coveralls. So here’s what sheriff’s deputies did: They threw away the bloody coveralls and arrested a young black man named Kevin Cooper. He is now awaiting execution.

<snip>

The test tube miraculously contained the blood of two or more people. This indicated that the sheriff’s office may have used the test tube of Cooper’s blood to frame him, and then topped off the test tube with someone else’s blood.

Cooper’s lawyers ask above all for new “touch DNA” testing — capable of detecting microscopic residues... As state attorney general, Kamala Harris refused to allow this advanced DNA testing and showed no interest in the case (on Friday, after the online publication of this column, Senator Harris called me to say "I feel awful about this" and put out a statement saying: "As a firm believer in DNA testing..."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Gabbard is right. Harris owes Kevin Cooper an apology.

[bigtree]

137. CROCODILE TEARS FOR SOMEONE WHO'S HAD AT LEAST THREE DNA TESTS

[Princetonian]

139. "One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2019, 01:50 PM - Edit history (1)

"One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

In 1983, four people were murdered in a home in Chino Hills, Calif. The sole survivor of the attack said three white intruders had committed the murders. Then a woman told the police that her boyfriend, a white convicted murderer, was probably involved, and she gave deputies his bloody coveralls. So here’s what sheriff’s deputies did: They threw away the bloody coveralls and arrested a young black man named Kevin Cooper. He is now awaiting execution.

<snip>

The test tube miraculously contained the blood of two or more people. This indicated that the sheriff’s office may have used the test tube of Cooper’s blood to frame him, and then topped off the test tube with someone else’s blood.

Cooper’s lawyers ask above all for new “touch DNA” testing — capable of detecting microscopic residues... As state attorney general, Kamala Harris refused to allow this advanced DNA testing and showed no interest in the case (on Friday, after the online publication of this column, Senator Harris called me to say "I feel awful about this" and put out a statement saying: "As a firm believer in DNA testing..."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Gabbard is right. Harris owes Kevin Cooper an apology.

[Princetonian]

142. As of August 1, "The results are pending."

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Gabbard was also right on this claim. No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump at the next debate. As if....

[bigtree]

144. NEW TESTS WERE ORDERED IN 2018

..."PENDING"

FAILED TO EXONERATE, IS MORE ACCURATE.

The senator’s campaign spokesperson told The Washington Post after the debate that Harris was not directly involved in the decision to deny Cooper’s petition in 2016.

"Senator Harris ran an office of 5,000 people and takes responsibility for all the actions of the California Department of Justice during her tenure," the statement said, according to the Post. "Most of the legal activity around this case occurred before her terms in office, but this specific request was made to and decided by lower level attorneys."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

GOOD LUCK ATTACKING KAMALA HARRIS FOR A DECISION SHE WASN'T EVEN INVOLVED IN, IN A CASE WHERE A CONVICTED KILLED HAS HAD AT LEAST THREE DNA TESTS WHICH FAILED TO EXONERATE HIM IN THE BRUTAL SLAYINGS OF DOUG AND PEGGY RYEN, THEIR 10 YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER, AND 11 YEAR-OLD NEIGHBOR CHRISTOPHER HUGHES.

[Princetonian]

146. Yes, I told you that. "They are still pending." As AG, the buck stopped with Harris.

That CYA press release by Harris' spokesperson is pathetic.

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

From Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter Nicholas Kristof, here are excerpts from the expose that forced Harris to backtrack:

"One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

In 1983, four people were murdered in a home in Chino Hills, Calif. The sole survivor of the attack said three white intruders had committed the murders. Then a woman told the police that her boyfriend, a white convicted murderer, was probably involved, and she gave deputies his bloody coveralls. So here’s what sheriff’s deputies did: They threw away the bloody coveralls and arrested a young black man named Kevin Cooper. He is now awaiting execution.

<snip>

The test tube miraculously contained the blood of two or more people. This indicated that the sheriff’s office may have used the test tube of Cooper’s blood to frame him, and then topped off the test tube with someone else’s blood.

Cooper’s lawyers ask above all for new “touch DNA” testing — capable of detecting microscopic residues... As state attorney general, Kamala Harris refused to allow this advanced DNA testing and showed no interest in the case (on Friday, after the online publication of this column, Senator Harris called me to say "I feel awful about this" and put out a statement saying: "As a firm believer in DNA testing..."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Gabbard is right. Harris owes Kevin Cooper an apology.

[bigtree]

149. ON TINDERHOOKS

..ARE YOU?

SHOW US SOME OF YOUR PREVIOUS ADVOCACY FOR WRONGLY CONVICTED DEATH ROW INMATES.



I DON'T THINK YOU PERSONALLY GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE FATE OF COOPER, OUTSIDE OF BASHING KAMALA HARRIS WITH ALL OF THESE FALSE CHARGES YOU'RE MAKING, BUT THAT'S ME.

[Princetonian]

151. Gabbard has yet to be proven wrong. Harris did not refute her claims when asked on CNN.

And that's "tenterhooks". Big word.

[Princetonian]

172. I care more about social justice vis a vis Kevin Cooper than Harris did as AG. That's the point.

I care more about social justice vis a vis Cooper than Harris did as AG.

Tulsi Gabbard and a whole lot of other people ranging from federal judges to detectives to defense lawyers to Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter Nicholas Kristof -- who called Harris a "flawed political leader" in his NYT expose titled, "Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?" -- care far more about social justice vis a vis Kevin Cooper than Harris did as AG.

That's the point.

I'll let Nicholas Kristof speak on why this case is important given you don't seem to get it:

This is the story of a broken justice system. It appears that an innocent man was framed by sheriff’s deputies and is on death row in part because of dishonest cops, sensational media coverage and flawed political leaders — including Democrats like Brown and Kamala Harris, the state attorney general before becoming a U.S. senator, who refused to allow newly available DNA testing for a black man convicted of hacking to death a beautiful white family and young neighbor. This was a failure at every level, and it should prompt reflection not just about one man on death row but also about profound inequities in our entire system of justice.

I’m using strong language, I know. But I went to San Quentin to interview Cooper, reviewed trial transcripts and other documents, spoke to innumerable people on and off the record, and in 34 years at The New York Times, I’ve never come across a case in America as outrageous as Kevin Cooper’s. So hear me out.

Smarter people than me have come to the same conclusion. “This guy is innocent,” said Thomas R. Parker, a 30-year law enforcement veteran who was deputy head of the F.B.I.’s office in Los Angeles. “The evidence was planted, he was framed, the cops lied on the stand.”

Parker said the case involved “abject racism,” and he has volunteered his time investigating the case for the last seven years because he is horrified that a man he believes was framed is nearing execution.

Or listen to Judge William A. Fletcher of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. “He is on death row because the San Bernardino Sheriff’s Department framed him,” Fletcher declared in a searing 2013 lecture.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

And it's TENTERHOOKS not TINDERHOOKS. Big word!!

[Eliot Rosewater]

174. You got THAT right!

This fucking dance we have to do with ...sigh

[ucrdem]

97. This looks like the same article. Gabbard said 1,500 MJ lockups, these figures show 1,883

So Gabbard wasn't wrong. And what is really striking is that when Xavier Bacerra took over as AG they dropped to almost nothing -- immediately.

[bigtree]

100. GABBARD LIED. HARRIS WAS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE PROSECUTIONS

CITING NUMBERS OF THOSE JAILED FOR POT RELATED OFFENSES DOESN'T TELL US ANYTHING (NEGATIVE) ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS.

GABBARD:

“There are too many examples to cite, but she put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana,”

(AS AG) KAMALA HARRIS DID NOT PUT ANYONE IN JAIL FOR MARIJUANA VIOLATIONS.

"...as attorney general, Harris would not have personally prosecuted marijuana cases. Those cases would have been handled by lower-level state attorneys."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

THE CHART IS RELEVANT TO KAMALA HARRIS, BUT NOT THE WAY GABBARD FRAMED IT. DA HARRIS, IN 2004, INTRODUCED HER 'BACK ON TRACK' ANTI-RECIDIVISM PROGRAM WHICH DRAMATICALLY REDUCED INCARCERATIONS FOR LOW LEVEL OFFENSES BY PROVIDING ALTERNATIVES TO JAIL. SHE TOOK THE PROGRAM STATEWIDE IN 2016.

THAT ANTI-RECIDIVISM PROGRAM IS EVIDENT IN THE DRAMATIC DROP IN INCARCERATIONS DURING HER TERM AS AG, BEGINNING THE 2ND YEAR OF HER TERM. THE CHART SHOWS A STEEP DROP IN JAILINGS IN 2012, A YEAR AFTER SHE TOOK OFFICE. THAT'S SOMETHING SHE WOULD HAVE HAD A DIRECT IMPACT ON, NOT ACTUAL ARRESTS AND PROSECUTIONS OF POT RELATED OFFENSES, AS GABBARD FALSELY CLAIMED.

[Princetonian]

103. CNN asked Harris about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute Gabbard's claims.

As AG, the buck stopped with Harris. Her office had alot of public issues with prosecutorial misconduct: https://www.latimes.com/local/politics/la-me-lying-prosecutors-20150201-story.html

If she could not do her job properly as a state AG, then she is not ready to be President, VP, or DoJ AG.

DUers have used Free Beacon when it suited their needs:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1410802

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511776194

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10027740583

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1090798

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12511892399

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210982207

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280105597

And dozens more...

to wlydwolf

[bigtree]

118. .

***83% DROP IN INCARCERATIONS DURING HER TERM, SHARP DROP OFF IN THE FIRST YEAR**

[Princetonian]

127. Gabbard told the truth. DA Harris prosecuted marijuana cases from 2004-2010.

Harris did directly prosecute marijuana cases as San Francisco district attorney from 2004-2010.

According to Mercury News: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

This especially turns my stomach:

Death row appeals

Tulsi Gabbard: “She blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from death row until the courts forced her to do so. In the case of those who were on death row, innocent people, you actually blocked evidence from being revealed that would have freed them until you were forced to do so.”

The facts: Harris’s attorney general office did block DNA testing that some legal observers believe could have helped overturn the murder conviction of a death row inmate who has insisted he was framed.

Harris opposed efforts by lawyers for Kevin Cooper, a death row inmate from San Bernardino County, to get new DNA testing. In 2018, following a New York Times investigation into the case, Harris said she was wrong and called for further testing.

No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump all of a sudden!

Gabbard was also correct that Harris "fought to keep a cash bail system in place that impacts poor people in the worst kind of way.”

[ucrdem]

130. Yes. Not a pleasant picture but true nonetheless. nt

[bigtree]

131. EXCEPT IT'S A CANARD

...IT'S BEEN YEARS SINCE THE TESTS WERE ORDERED. **TWO** PREVIOUS DNA TESTS SHOWED THAT COOPER WAS THE KILLER.

OH...

"While Gov. Gavin Newsom of California has ordered additional DNA testing in the case and a number of legal and judicial experts say that Mr. Cooper was wrongfully convicted, the advanced testing has not yet proved Mr. Cooper’s innocence and allowed him to leave death row."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

ANY FEELINGS OF SICKNESS FOR THE VICTIMS? COOPER WAS TRIED AND CONVICTED. HE'S HAD MORE THAN HIS DAY IN COURT, DESPITE THE CONCLUSIONS OF A NEWSPAPER COLUMNIST.

WHY DID BROWN AND NEWSOME DECLINE TO PARDON HIM?

AREN'T THEY PROGRESSIVES?
_______________________________

KAMALA HARRIS ADVOCATED INCREASING BAIL FOR VIOLENT OFFENDERS WHO HAD USED A WEAPON IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME, INCLUDING DOMESTIC ABUSERS.

"Shortly thereafter, San Francisco's Superior Court judges moved to sharply increase cash bail costs for weapons-related felony charges, including assault with a firearm and the sale of machine guns."
https://www.politifact.com/california/article/2019/aug/01/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kamala-harris-record-c/

FROM 2004:

The bail for assault with a firearm, for instance, will jump from $35,000 to $75,000 -- far surpassing the $50,000 bail for the same crime in Marin, Contra Costa and San Mateo counties.

Get arrested for possessing or selling a machine gun in San Francisco and bail will rocket from $25,000 to $100,000 -- putting the usually lenient city on par with Alameda County.

And bail for selling or possessing assault weapons -- which are turning up more and more often in gang-related shootings -- will rise from $20,000 to $75,000. That's still $25,000 less than Contra Costa County.

Deputy Police Chief Greg Suhr said the new bail schedule will make the city at least consistent with surrounding Bay Area counties. "This is a big deal," he said.

SO, YOU'RE AGAINST HIGHER BAIL FOR VIOLENT OFFENDERS WITH GUNS, AND MACHINE GUN MERCHANTS. GOT IT.

[Princetonian]

138. Wrong, it has not been "years since the tests were ordered."

"One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

In 1983, four people were murdered in a home in Chino Hills, Calif. The sole survivor of the attack said three white intruders had committed the murders. Then a woman told the police that her boyfriend, a white convicted murderer, was probably involved, and she gave deputies his bloody coveralls. So here’s what sheriff’s deputies did: They threw away the bloody coveralls and arrested a young black man named Kevin Cooper. He is now awaiting execution.

<snip>

The test tube miraculously contained the blood of two or more people. This indicated that the sheriff’s office may have used the test tube of Cooper’s blood to frame him, and then topped off the test tube with someone else’s blood.

Cooper’s lawyers ask above all for new “touch DNA” testing — capable of detecting microscopic residues... As state attorney general, Kamala Harris refused to allow this advanced DNA testing and showed no interest in the case (on Friday, after the online publication of this column, Senator Harris called me to say "I feel awful about this" and put out a statement saying: "As a firm believer in DNA testing..."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

The NYT expose by NYT Pulitzer Prize winner Nicholas Kristof ran last year.

Gabbard is right. Harris owes Kevin Cooper an apology.

[bigtree]

141. LONG ENOUGH

...YOUR CONVICTED KILLER LOOKS GUILTY OF HEINOUS SLAYINGS, AND MULTIPLE, AGGRAVATED RAPES.

WHY HASN'T NEWSOME PARDONED HIM? WHY DIDN'T JERRY BROWN?

NEITHER OF THEM PROGRESSIVE ENOUGH?

[Princetonian]

143. As of Aug 1, "The results are pending."

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

[bigtree]

145. NICE FELLLOW

YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY DEFENDING A CONVICTED MURDERER WHO HAD THE BENEFIT OF **TWO** DNA TESTS WHILE KAMALA HARRIS WAS AG, AND AT LEAST ONE ADDITIONAL DNA TEST UNDER NEWSOME. THERE'S NO CONCLUSIVE PROOF THAT HIS CONVICTION WAS INCORRECT.

Kevin Cooper (born January 8, 1958) is a death row inmate currently held in California's San Quentin Prison. Cooper was convicted of four murders that occurred in the Chino Hills area of California in 1983. Cooper also admitted in court to the kidnap and rape of an underage female in Pennsylvania during a burglary attempt and was accused of rape by a second woman in California.

Cooper's habeas corpus petitions have been denied. The evidence in the case has been reviewed during the original trial, by the California Supreme Court, by the United States District Court, and by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

In a 2007, two judges of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit wrote that "As the district court, and all state courts, have repeatedly found, evidence of Cooper's guilt was overwhelming. The tests that he asked for to show his innocence 'once and for all' show nothing of the sort."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Cooper_(prisoner)


Chino Hills murders and arrest

On the morning of June 5, 1983, Bill Hughes arrived at a semi-rural home in Chino Hills, California, where his 11-year-old son Christopher had spent the night. Inside, he found Douglas and Peggy Ryen, their 10-year-old daughter Jessica and his own son dead. They had been chopped with a hatchet, sliced with a knife, and stabbed with an ice-pick. Josh Ryen, the 8-year-old son of Douglas and Peggy, had survived. His throat had been cut. Mrs. Ryen's purse was in plain sight on the kitchen counter, but no money had been taken. The family station wagon was gone; it was discovered several days later in Long Beach, California, about 50 miles southwest of Chino Hills.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department deputies who responded to the call identified Kevin Cooper as the likely killer. He had admittedly hidden out in the vacant house next door, the Lease house, 125 yards away, for two days. He had made repeated calls from this house to two female friends asking for money to help with his escape, but they had refused. Cooper testified at trial that he had left that house as soon as it got dark on June 4 and had hitchhiked to Mexico. It was established that Cooper checked into a hotel in Tijuana, about 130 miles south of Chino Hills, at 4:30 pm on June 5.

There, Cooper befriended an American couple who owned a sailboat. He hitched a ride on the boat with them as a crew member cruising the Baja and Southern California coasts.

Seven weeks later, while still staying on the couple's boat, Cooper was accused of raping a woman on a boat docked nearby. While visiting the sheriff's office to report the crime, the rape victim saw a wanted poster with Cooper's photograph and identified him as the rapist. Deputies and coast guard personnel detained him as he tried to swim ashore...

NICE FELLLOW

[Princetonian]

147. Stay classy. More from Pulitzer Prize winning NYT investigative reporter Nicholas Kristof...

With a good defense, Cooper might have prevailed. But his county public defender was overwhelmed and made a series of practical legal mistakes.

“Kevin got convicted because they framed him and because he didn’t have a half-decent defense,” said Norman C. Hile, his current lawyer. Hile, now retired as a partner in the international law firm Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe, has volunteered on the case for the last 14 years because he fiercely believes in Cooper’s innocence.

This is a familiar pattern: Inmates have third-rate defenders at trial, but after they are sentenced to death they get the help of brilliant free counsel; by then it is often too late to undo the damage.

Cooper’s trial unfolded amid the ugliest racism. At a hearing, a crowd displayed signs reading “Hang the Nigger.” One man displayed a noose around a stuffed gorilla.

Newspapers carried inaccurate reports, apparently based on prosecution leaks, that tied Cooper to the murder scene and suggested falsely that he was gay (seizing upon 1980s homophobia as well as racism).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Background:

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

[bigtree]

148. ...HAND

[Princetonian]

150. "He has been accused of rape without being charged" due to lack of evidence.

Here's what NYT Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Nicholas Kristof has to say in an excerpt from the expose that forced Harris to backtrack on her refusal to grant framed death row inmate Kevin Cooper another DNA test:

Although Cooper’s defenders note that before the murders he had never been convicted of a violent offense, or even charged with one, it’s a bit more complicated: He has been accused of rape without being charged.

I’m particularly troubled by one episode. Cooper admits forcing a 17-year-old girl into a vehicle in 1982. She says that he also hit her, threatened to kill her and raped her, and she went afterward to a hospital to seek treatment; he flatly denies hitting or raping her. Hile says that if the evidence had been strong, Cooper would have been charged with rape. For my part, I can’t think why the girl would have lied, and although it’s impossible to know after 36 years what happened, it bothers me.

It’s obvious to you by now that this is not a usual column — I’m not sure The Times has ever published a column of this length — so why am I exploring the case with such passion? I became interested primarily because Fletcher and other respected federal appeals judges had said he was framed. That just doesn’t happen.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Background:

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Gabbard was also right on this claim. No wonder Harris wants to only talk about Trump at the next debate. As if....

[bigtree]

152. ...HAND

...btw, champ, I won't be seeing your posts anymore.

...that awkward thing where you're yammering on and on and no one's listening? Starts now... bleep!

oh yeah, and many thanks for kicking my thread for almost a day. I likely couldn't have gotten those 29 recs without you.

[Gothmog]

153. Who is surprised by this?

I do not trust Gabbard and I disagree with the attacks on Senator Harris. Senator Harris is a good candidate and a good Democrat

[betsuni]

163. That Gabbard repeated easily refuted conspiracy theories at a Democratic debate is

embarrassing for Democrats. It has no place there.

[Princetonian]

165. Nothing Gabbard said about Harris has been refuted by Harris or her campaign, they only attacked her

[betsuni]

167. Oh, Princetonian. Repetition doesn't make things true.

Thanks for keeping this OP kicked so people can see Gabbard's conspiracy theories debunked!

[Princetonian]

168. Do The Mercury News and SF Chronicle Debate Fact Checks and NY Times "make things true"?

Harris is consistently on the wrong side of social justice in the cases I have documented here:

Reply 2: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=236405

Reply 15: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=236536


No amount of rhetorical nonsense is going to fool anyone but the most partisan.

The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle concur on 1974 as the correct updated number.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Does the New York Times Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Nicholas Kristof's expose "make things true"?

The attack: Gabbard said Harris “blocked evidence that would have freed an innocent man from Death Row until the courts forced her to do so.”

The context: Gabbard is referring to the case of Kevin Cooper, a Death Row inmate convicted of quadruple murder in 1983. Harris, during her tenure as attorney general, declined to use advanced DNA testing in the widely publicized case.

Last year, after the New York Times published an investigative piece on Cooper’s case, then-Sen. Harris backtracked, saying, “I feel awful about this,” and that she hoped the governor would order the testing. In February, Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered new tests. The results are pending.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

From Pulitzer Prize winning investigative reporter Nicholas Kristof, here are excerpts from the expose that forced Harris to backtrack:

"One Test Could Exonerate Him. Why Won't California Do It? Was Kevin Cooper Framed For Murder?"

In 1983, four people were murdered in a home in Chino Hills, Calif. The sole survivor of the attack said three white intruders had committed the murders. Then a woman told the police that her boyfriend, a white convicted murderer, was probably involved, and she gave deputies his bloody coveralls. So here’s what sheriff’s deputies did: They threw away the bloody coveralls and arrested a young black man named Kevin Cooper. He is now awaiting execution.

<snip>

The test tube miraculously contained the blood of two or more people. This indicated that the sheriff’s office may have used the test tube of Cooper’s blood to frame him, and then topped off the test tube with someone else’s blood.

Cooper’s lawyers ask above all for new “touch DNA” testing — capable of detecting microscopic residues... As state attorney general, Kamala Harris refused to allow this advanced DNA testing and showed no interest in the case (on Friday, after the online publication of this column, Senator Harris called me to say "I feel awful about this" and put out a statement saying: "As a firm believer in DNA testing..."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/17/opinion/sunday/kevin-cooper-california-death-row.html

Gabbard is right. Harris owes Kevin Cooper an apology.

"Harris' district attorney's office violated defendants' rights by hiding damaging information"

As DA, the buck stopped with Harris. More evidence from the SF Chronicle Debate Factcheck that backs up Tulsi Gabbard's claims:

'San Francisco Superior Court Judge Anne-Christine Massullo... said Harris’ district attorney’s office violated defendants’ rights by hiding damaging information about the technician and was indifferent to demands that the office account for its failings. “The District Attorney failed to disclose information that clearly should have been disclosed,” the judge wrote in a court order. Plus, Harris’ office did not have a written policy about informing defendants if there were any problems with evidence or witnesses. The scandal led to 1,000 cases being dismissed.'

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php?psid=glXZf

This is why Harris cannot refute Gabbard's claims.

[betsuni]

169. Oh, I see today the "elite media pundits" of the "corporate media" are rehabilitated!

Yesterday they were bad.

[Princetonian]

170. Truth over lies.

[lapucelle]

175. Here's what the fact checkers at Mercury News said about Tulsi's tale.

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

Here's what "political journalist" Matt Taibbi (cited on this thread as voice we should listen to) has to say about those who are skeptical about Tulsi's tale:

Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

The Mercury News says as a fact that Tulsi's statistic is highly misleading.

Mr.Taibbi serves up the narrative that negative press reports that followed Tulsi's telling of her explosive tale are simply the continuation of the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

Were you aware that the Democratic Party has a tradition of denouncing anything it doesn't like as treason?

That is the tale Matt Taibbi is telling this week.

I will not link to Taiibi who appears to have devolved into an anti-Democratic Party conspiracy theorist. You can find that information
here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287240585#post15

Caveat lector

[Princetonian]

176. Gabbard underestimated the number as per both of their Debate Fact Checks updated on August 1, 2019.

The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle concur on 1974 as the correct updated number.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Rolling Stone political reporter tells his experience of what happened after the second debate:

It just shows,” says Hawaii congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, “that launching a smear campaign is the only response to the truth.”

Gabbard, 38, burst into headlines after a July 31 Democratic Party presidential debate, when she went after California Senator Kamala Harris’s record as Attorney General of the State of California. The “smear campaign” refers to the bizarre avalanche of negative press that ensued, as reporters seemed to circle wagons around a Harris, a party favorite.

<snip>

Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

Harris national press chair Ian Sams tweeted, “Yo, you love Assad!”, a reference to Gabbard’s controversial visit with Syrian president Bashar al-Assad in 2017. He then tweeted a link to an insidious February 2 NBC News story, which asserted that Gabbard’s campaign was the beneficiary of Russian bots.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/podcast-tulsi-gabbard-kamala-harris-syria-iraq-870003/

Stay classy, Ian Sams.

Why didn't Harris refute Gabbard's claims during her CNN and MSNBC appearances, on the morning of August 1st? CNN asked her about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute the claims.

to Skya Rhen

[lapucelle]

177. The Mercury News says, as a fact, that Tulsi's statistic is highly misleading,

not just plain old misleading, but highly misleading.

Tulsi used a statistic to mislead people, according to the Mercury News.

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic

A "political journalist" cited to support Tulsi's tale has this to say about the Democratic Party

there is an appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

The Mecury News says that Tulsi used statistics (verifiable or not) to mislead people.

"Political journalist" Taiibi claims that the Democratic Party has a tradition of denouncing anything we do not like as treason.

Both of those sources are yours.

[Princetonian]

178. They updated their numbers. Cherrypicked quotes sans links so folks can't read in context? Tsk, tsk.

Your attempt to distract from the fact that both The Mercury News and The SF Chronicle updated their Debate Fact Check on August 1, 2019 and decided that despite all that they wrote beforehand Gabbard actually underestimated the number.

The Mercury Press and The San Francisco Chronicle concur on 1974 as the correct updated number.

"A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

On Thursday, a department spokesman told The Chronicle that 1,974 people were admitted for hashish and marijuana convictions during that period."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Fact-checking-the-Democratic-debate-attacks-14275081.php

Interesting that the Harris defenders have all focused on this one thing when there were several other incidents mentioned. Perhaps those are harder to defend?

Truth over lies.

Rolling Stone's political reporter tells of his experience of what happened after the second debate. It certainly is an eye-opener! What Harris and her campaign did was very different than what Joe did after Harris attacked him at the first debate and the second debate by implying he is a racist. Shocking, really.

It just shows,” says Hawaii congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, “that launching a smear campaign is the only response to the truth.”

Gabbard, 38, burst into headlines after a July 31 Democratic Party presidential debate, when she went after California Senator Kamala Harris’s record as Attorney General of the State of California. The “smear campaign” refers to the bizarre avalanche of negative press that ensued, as reporters seemed to circle wagons around a Harris, a party favorite.

<snip>

Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

Harris national press chair Ian Sams tweeted, “Yo, you love Assad!”, a reference to Gabbard’s controversial visit with Syrian president Bashar al-Assad in 2017. He then tweeted a link to an insidious February 2 NBC News story, which asserted that Gabbard’s campaign was the beneficiary of Russian bots.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/podcast-tulsi-gabbard-kamala-harris-syria-iraq-870003/

Stay classy, Ian Sams. Bad strategy. Why not address Gabbard's claims honestly? Why won't Harris categorically deny Gabbard's claims after all this time?

Why didn't Harris refute Gabbard's claims during her CNN and MSNBC appearances, on the morning of August 1st? CNN asked her about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute the claims. Why won't she simply and categorically refute Gabbard's claims?

to Skya Rhen

[lapucelle]

180. The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

Mercury News doesn't say the the numbers are wrong or that the statistic is inaccurate.

The problem, according to Mercury News, is that Tulsi used the statistic to mislead people.

********************************************************************************************

Here's the full paragraph of Matt Taiibi's spew:

Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

According to "political journalist" Taiibi,

We Democrats are continuing our appalling tradition of denouncing anything we don't like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies

That's what Taiibi is telling all of his readers over at Rolling Stone.

And you cited the article where he said it as a trustworthy source.

[Princetonian]

181. Cherrypicked sentences with no links to confirm context. Got it.

Truth over lies.

[lapucelle]

184. I don't link to conspiracy theorists like Matt Taiibbi.

If you want the link, it's in two of your posts.

Here's the link to Mercury News says, the reliable source concerning Tulsi:

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

[Princetonian]

185. The Mercury News is a "conspiracy theorist"?

Lord have mercy.

[lapucelle]

186. The Mercury News is not a conspiracy theorist. It's a reliable news source.

[Princetonian]

188. You did not supply that link until your last post. Now I can see why.

Last edited Sat Aug 17, 2019, 07:35 AM - Edit history (2)

BUSTED.

You said: "The problem, according to Mercury News, is that Tulsi used the statistic to mislead people."
Link: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=242739

No, that is NOT what The Mercury News said at all.

That a single sentence by a reporter is used to denigrate Gabbard's veracity is a dishonest ploy when it is clear that the reporter made an assumption about what Gabbard "appears" to have meant when Gabbard said no such thing about Harris being DA or AG in her original statement!!!!

So it is only "misleading" if you are a presumptuous reporter or someone worse who is trying to put words in Gabbard's mouth to make her look bad.

This is what Gabbard really said:

'Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

Gabbard appears to be referring to the number of Californians who were sent to state prisons for marijuana-related offenses while Harris was state attorney general. The conservative Washington Free Beacon reported this year that at least 1,560 people went to prison for pot during Harris’ tenure from 2011 through 2016, citing reports from the California corrections department that are no longer available on their website. A department spokesman said 1,974 people were admitted to prison for marijuana and hashish charges during that time period.

But the attorney general’s office doesn’t directly prosecute the vast majority of drug cases in the state. That’s up to the individual district attorneys in each county, and it’s wrong to say Harris put those people in jail.

Still, Harris did directly prosecute marijuana cases as San Francisco district attorney from 2004 through 2010. The DA’s office has not yet released data about pot convictions during that time period.

Harris has a mixed record on marijuana. She supported legal medical marijuana from her very first political campaign, but opposed efforts to legalize recreational marijuana in California in 2010 and took no position on the legalization ballot measure that eventually passed in 2016. While launching her attorney general re-election campaign in 2014, Harris let out a big laugh when asked by a local TV reporter about her opponent’s support of legalizing pot for recreational use.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

Despite the bullsh*t antics, the outstanding fact is Gabbard actually underestimated the number. The rest of The Mercury News Debate Fact Check supports Gabbard's claims too.

Questions I Ask Myself:

Why didn't Harris refute Gabbard's claims during her CNN and MSNBC appearances, on the morning of August 1st?

CNN asked Harris about Gabbard, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute the claims. Why won't Kamala Harris simply and categorically refute Tulsi Gabbard's claims?

Perhaps you should ask yourself the same questions.

Truth over lies.

[lapucelle]

195. The link to Mercury News is in my post #175 which begins the subthroad.

The link is also in my post #184.

I didn't use quotation marks in my post when I said

The problem, according to Mercury News, is that Tulsi used the statistic to mislead people.

Why would anyone think it was a direct quote? The only reason you used quotation marks is because you knew you were were quoting me.

Here's exactly what I said:

Mercury News doesn't say the the numbers are wrong or that the statistic is inaccurate.

The problem, according to Mercury News, is that Tulsi used the statistic to mislead people.

Your link (Mercury News) had this to say about one of Tulsi's tales:

Marijuana prosecutions

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/

That's the Mercury News fact checkers' summary assessment of one component of Tulsi's tale at a link you provided.

[lapucelle]

196. Why so quiet about the other source you provide in #15, anti-Democratic party "political journalist"

Matt Taibbi?

I certainly wouldn't trust (or provide links to) anyone who says things like:

"Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies."

That's a direct quote of your source. Your link in your post #15 goes directly to the story.

The appalling "political journalist" Taibbi claims that there's an "appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies" as part of his defense of Tulsi's terrible tale.

[Princetonian]

198. So what? Is that all you've got?

[Princetonian]

199. You left those out in subsequent posts until I asked repeatedly for them.

I have to admit I got bored and didn't bother tracking all your posts up to #175. Oh well.

[lapucelle]

200. You didn't repeatedly ask me for your own link.

In fact, you never asked for it; and besides that it's in two of my posts in the sub thread. I got the link from your post #15. It's your own link.

Just to reiterate, here is your sources summary assessment of Tulsi's tale concerning marijuana:

Tulsi Gabbard: “She put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

The facts: This is a highly misleading statistic.

[betsuni]

179. I was not aware that the Democratic Party has a tradition of denouncing things as treason!

Taibbi certainly thinks the fuss about Russia is overblown. He must think journalists like Malcolm Nance are silly to write books like "The Plot to Destroy Democracy, How Putin and his Spies are Undermining America and Dismantling the West." Real journalism. I don't know what Taibbi is doing.

I wonder how "highly misleading" suddenly means "true." And how marijuana-related incarcerations dropping by about 83% can be seen as an increase.

[lapucelle]

182. Taibbi lived in Moscow for six years.

The eXile

Taibbi lived and worked in Russia and the former USSR for more than six years. He joined Mark Ames in 1997 to co-edit the English-language Moscow-based, bi-weekly free newspaper, The eXile, which was written primarily for the city's expatriate community. The eXile's tone and content were highly controversial. To some, its commentary was brutally honest and gleefully tasteless; others considered it juvenile, misogynistic, and even cruel.

snip===================================================================

Journalist Kathy Lally wrote in the Washington Post in December 2017 that she and other female journalists were subjected to misogynistic attacks by Taibbi and Ames while she was a correspondent in Moscow in the 1990s.

Lally contacted Taibbi in 2017, and he told her, "I certainly would not go about things now the way I did back then," and "I apologize for the physical descriptions. That was gratuitous and uncalled for."

In 2017, Taibbi came under fire for excerpts from a chapter in the book written by Ames that described sexual harassment of employees at The eXile. In a 2017 Facebook post responding to the controversy, Taibbi apologized for the "cruel and misogynistic language" used in the book, but said the work was conceived as a satire of the "reprehensible" behavior of American expatriates in Russia and that the description of events in the chapter was "fictional and not true".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Taibbi

[betsuni]

187. I have one of his books but quit reading after a few pages. Smug, arrogant, condescending.

Not surprised at "juvenile, misogynistic, and even cruel." Not good for a journalist when it becomes more about them than getting the facts of the story correct.

[Princetonian]

183. I never trust a cherrypicked sentence sans link. This is what Rolling Stone really said, betsuni.

Rolling Stone's political reporter tells of his experience of what happened after the second debate. It certainly is an eye-opener! What Harris and her campaign did was very different than what Joe did after Harris attacked him at the first AND second debate by implying he is a racist. Shocking, really.

'It just shows,” says Hawaii congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, “that launching a smear campaign is the only response to the truth.”

Gabbard, 38, burst into headlines after a July 31 Democratic Party presidential debate, when she went after California Senator Kamala Harris’s record as Attorney General of the State of California. The “smear campaign” refers to the bizarre avalanche of negative press that ensued, as reporters seemed to circle wagons around a Harris, a party favorite.

<snip>

Having wounded a presumptive frontrunner backed by nearly $25 million in campaign funds, Gabbard instantly became the subject of a slew of negative leaks, tweets, and press reports. Many of these continued the appalling recent Democratic Party tradition of denouncing anything it doesn’t like as treasonous aid to foreign enemies.

Harris national press chair Ian Sams tweeted, “Yo, you love Assad!”, a reference to Gabbard’s controversial visit with Syrian president Bashar al-Assad in 2017. He then tweeted a link to an insidious February 2 NBC News story, which asserted that Gabbard’s campaign was the beneficiary of Russian bots.'

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/podcast-tulsi-gabbard-kamala-harris-syria-iraq-870003/

If you read further into the Rolling Stone article, the political reporter gives examples such as when Senator Barack Obama was attacked for saying he would talk to Syria or any of our enemies without preconditions (which is what Gabbard believes too).

[betsuni]

189. But Gabbard's conspiracy theories about Harris don't imply Harris supports racist policies?

Exactly what it was meant to do.

[ucrdem]

191. They aren't conspiracy theories, and all they imply is that she wasn't the progressive prosecutor

she claims to be. Which is not the end of the world and may not even matter depending in your views.

[Princetonian]

164. Cherrypicked data by the OP is no surprise. Gabbard's verifiable claims have not been proven wrong.

Still waiting for Harris to refute one word of what Gabbard said. CNN asked her about it, showed a videoclip and she still did not refute the claims.

My candidate is Joe. Gabbard defended Joe against Harris' attack after the first debate, said he was not a racist. I stand by people who stand by him.

[ucrdem]

190. Also, the headline is misleading: this is NOT an update of the August 1 Factcheck article.

It's the same article I posted two weeks ago to support Gabbard's claims. And it wasn't proven wrong then, either, though many claimed otherwise.

[ucrdem]

192. This is not an update of the Gabbard factcheck, it's an update of the Harris factcheck.

Here's her scorecard by the way, which is mixed:

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/kamala-harris/

[bigtree]

201. here's Biden's

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/joe-biden/


https://www.politifact.com/personalities/kamala-harris/

Looks like she fares better than Joe here (or at least as well). Look at the 'pants on fire' category. Nothing in that category for Kamala.

[Princetonian]

203. No wonder Harris avoids refuting Gabbard's claims.

Questions for you:

Why didn't Harris refute Gabbard's claims during her CNN and MSNBC appearances, on the morning of August 1st?

CNN asked her about it, showed her the video clip and she still did not refute the claims.

Why won't Harris simply and categorically refute Gabbard's claims if they are untrue?