No Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. We need a moderate, South Florida Democrats tell their party.

[elleng]

'A group of prominent current and former elected officials in Broward County is warning the Democratic Party that defeating President Donald Trump requires nominating a candidate who can appeal to a broad swath of the electorate — not one of the progressives running far to the left.

The group, which is calling itself the Real Solutions Caucus, said defeating Trump is the overriding goal for 2020. It sees 10 candidates — including former Vice President Joe Biden — as best equipped to appeal to swing voters in a handful of states that will decide the election.Pointedly not on the list: the two leading progressive presidential candidates, U.S. Sens. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Although Sanders and Warren consistently poll in second and third place behind Biden and together have the support of one-third of Democratic primary voters, members of the Real Solutions Caucus fear they are too far to the left, and nominating one of them increases the chances of a Trump victory.

“This election will be decided in a handful of swing states, each with significant groups of swing voters,” the caucus wrote in a “statement of principles” it plans to release Tuesday. “We intend to encourage candidates to adopt national positions that will appeal to swing voters in swing states, and we intend to encourage Democratic voters to support candidates that adopt these positions.”'>>>

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-broward-democratic-leaders-want-centrist-presidential-candidate-20190820-tuyguq3pfbdtbkaqtice4zenpi-story.html?

[Voltaire2]

1. Establishment says we need more establishment.

Thanks. I’ll consider their message as appropriate.

[Demsrule86]

4. Or people who work elections knows what it takes to win purple or red states...have you looked at

the state, electoral or senate maps lately? When we lost the blue wall, we lost our pathway to the presidency.

[Voltaire2]

8. From the first line.

'A group of prominent current and former elected officials

[Demsrule86]

16. And you doubt their experience?

When I look at the state maps and the senate maps, it is clear to me that we need moderate candidates to run statewide in red and purple states and a moderate candidate nationally...we do not win by Democrats alone....the electoral college is not our friend as we see when we look how many states are in GOP hands.

[Voltaire2]

162. They have a lot of experience running

our party into the ground.

[LanternWaste]

53. I too would be skeptical if a pilot told me that MS Flight Simulator was not good experience

I too would be skeptical if an airline pilot told me that MS Flight Simulator was not good experience to land an aircraft.

Pilots think pilots should pilot aircraft. Jeez... how narrow-minded, intolerant, institutional and progressive of them.

[NYMinute]

79. But ... but... flying a drone is as good as flying an Airbus A380

Just because "establishment" pilots don't think that, supporting the radical drone warriors over pilots would be a radical choice that would make some feel good.

[NYMinute]

73. They know their electorate better than anyone on DU nt

[sharedvalues]

11. Oh yeah? Like designing non-butterfly ballots?

I respect what establishment Dems have to say; they have experience.
But election workers (sec of state, etc) in Florida committed an original sin in 2000 that got Bush elected. I don’t give them any credit for being election workers in florida.

[Demsrule86]

22. Ballots have nothing to do with maps...the electoral college, Senate map and state maps show

what a job we have to win the presidency and the Senate is even harder.

[delisen]

24. They let the Republican Party fake rioters

shut down the ballot counting in Miami.

A detailed account by the pro-Republican Wall Street Journal confirms that last week's mini-riot outside the offices of the Miami-Dade County Canvassing Board was organized and financed by the Bush-Cheney campaign and top leaders in the Republican Congress.
On November 22, a violent crowd of about 150 Republican Party protesters rampaged through Miami's County Hall after the canvassing board decided to concentrate its recount on the approximately 10,000 “undervotes”—ballots for which no presidential choice had been registered by the original machine count. The Republican demonstrators banged and kicked on the doors and windows of the 19th floor office where the board had moved the count, as well as physically assaulting a number of Democratic Party representatives on the scene.
Not long after the Republican rampage, the board decided to stop its manual recount of the county's presidential ballots altogether. The hand recount had been authorized the previous day by the Florida Supreme Court. It is widely acknowledged in the press that the board's action meant that hundreds of votes, mostly for Democratic candidate Al Gore, went uncounted as a result.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/11/riot-n29.html

By October, 2019 the news about climate change and the flooding of Florida is going to be all over the media.

Florida real estate collapse may occur at any point after.

I would suggest the party insiders in Florida get ready for the new playing field.

[comradebillyboy]

40. The Brooks Brothers riot.

[delisen]

57. That's the One!

[Eko]

64. Yup,

they personally unlocked the doors for them and let them in. Then they made the board decide to stop the recount.
Give me a break.

[sharedvalues]

137. Bush stole the 2000 election and FL election Dems didn't do enough to stop it

The butterfly ballot itself is an original sin.

Without that ballot, Gore is president. History is forever changed.

[DonCoquixote]

28. an a major reason we lost that blue wall

was because a certain South Florida democrat (aka she who was FIRED) was running the show and ignored plea from those blue wall states to send help. Why would we turn the election over to the same people who wrecked the ship in the first place?

[Eko]

65. Wasnt the person fired?

If so how can it be the same people?

[DonCoquixote]

89. because she who was fired

name withheld for fear of eager tombstoners, is still the main democratic person in south florida who has been running her mouth against Any democrat left of Dixiecrat. It is the same faction she is still a very loud voice for.

[Demsrule86]

169. I call bullshit...it nice to blame her but not so...and we run the risk of losing it again with the

wrong candidate...if we don't get it back we have no currently viable path to the presidency...sure we might take Texas...but we haven't in decades...sure Georgia might turn blue...but again more than a decade. And it was Stein who made the difference in those states...the traitor Russian princess who helped elect Trump...with Sarandon, Turner and the rest of them.

[Cha]

27. "Establishment Establishment Establishment".

[2020Junker]

36. They got us where we are now, didn't they?

If I hire someone to mow my lawn, and it ends up looking like my hair first thing in the morning, I tend not to trust their future landscaping advice.

But that just seems like common sense to me.

[BeyondGeography]

41. They sure sound nervous, too

Shut down the competition before, you know, too many people hear what they have to say. Good luck with that.

[2020Junker]

43. They couldn't even deliver their own state in '16

But please, do go on. Explain to me your brilliant strategies for winning other states.

One thing I find eye roll worthy in politicians is when they combine gall and hubris with an utter lack of self-awareness.

After reading this article, my ocular nerves are suing for damages.

[Eko]

66. Just because the "establishment" couldn't win in '16

that doesn't mean the progressives would. There are three options and to discount the third hurts my ocular nerves.

[2020Junker]

78. No, it doesn't.

Fact of the matter is, we don't know. But we took their advice in '16 and lost Florida. This article is being presented as sage advice to be heeded.

Maybe if we'd have won it or if they could wrest control of their own state from Republican control, I'd give it a listen. As it is, it's just a bunch of people in power declaring, "Let's do the same again, but this time with feeling!"

Ehhhhh. I'm giving it as much regard as it deserves just at the moment.

[Eko]

86. Well, their argument fits the polls right now so they have a better argument accoring to the data.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_warren-6844.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/fl/florida_trump_vs_biden-6841.html

[2020Junker]

93. Your own links undercut the argument

Those polls are from May and June. Warren gained 8 points in one month. It is now August.

And the article in the OP is a fairly straightforward appeal to authority.

I'd say to the moderate wing of the party: Tread verrrrrry carefully here, or we will see 2016 again. The party was dictated to from the top down in 2016. It isn't going to fly this time quite as easily. People won't stomach it.

Biden is hovering at 28-30% in the polls. And that's with all the name recognition in the world, with the most favorable Obama wind possible at his back. If there weren't so many candidates in the field, he'd probably have a solid fight on his hands already (Sanders and Warren are dividing the progressive wing).

My gut tells me Biden comes out with the nomination due to that division, much as Trump was able to make hash out of the Republican field because too many candidates were dividing up too many votes. It's early, but I have a strong sense of it.

But this spear-heading of endless lecturing and hectoring of Progressives by the very people who lectured and hectored and failed in 2016 is a perilous business. I'd proceed with an awful lot of humility if I were them. But, of course, they're not. And if it all goes south again, it'll be all the progressives' fault. Again.

People are already tired of this attitude from the top of the party. If we lose 2020, god help them. A lot of established people are going to be a lot finished.

[Eko]

96. Warren gained 8 points in one month?

Can you show that please?

[2020Junker]

99. Your links showed two polls

The May one had Trump +4 on her. The June one had Warren +4 on Trump.

Different pollsters, but as I said, I'm not sure what you were trying to illustrate by using two very old polls.

[Eko]

100. Yes they were different polls.

Comparing different polls is not a good way to do that. Heck, if we do that for Biden he gained 9 points, which undercuts your argument even more using your methodology.

[2020Junker]

102. Not really

Both Warren and Biden are in good positions to beat Trump.

And I'd note, those polls were before both debates.

I think using polls at this point is silly anyway. I don't get the daily obsession with them. And one single poll in a state is rarely indicative of anything. The whole "electability" argument is just another appeal to a very wobbly authority and meant to undercut other candidates early in order to clear a path for a favorite.

I won't start really bothering about the things until maybe two weeks before Iowa.

[Eko]

106. Not really what? Biden increased 9 points using your math.

This is not a single poll this is a collection and from different states. What else can you use besides polls to see what people are thinking?
Edit:Sorry this was just for Florida, I forgot.

[Eko]

111. But Biden is in a better position nationwide now.

RCP Average 3/27 - 8/13 -- -- 49.9 41.3 Biden +8.6
RCP Average 3/27 - 8/13 -- -- 48.1 44.9 Warren +3.2
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_warren-6251.html

The data backs up what they are saying. Feel free to provide other data to back up your point.

[Eko]

119. What is really interesting,

is that you keep saying polls (data) from a couple of months ago are too old to use but are using the results of the 2016 election for your data. Fine, lets use the data from the 2016 election and current data together. In 2016 RCP had Clinton at +3.2 and the results were +2.1. That is fairly accurate for a poll. We all know how that turned out due to the vagaries of our election system Trump won with fewer voters. That shows us that due to our election system we need a larger spread than +3.2. What is Warren at again? Huh, +3.2. Biden? +8.6. What 2016 should show you is that we need a spread larger than +3.2 since we last lost with that. Of course a lot can happen but the data we have now shows Biden is the best choice at least for winning. Whether he would be the best president is a personal opinion and not tied to the data of who is best able to win. At this point.

[Eko]

103. If you have some newer polls

by all means show them to help your argument.

[Thekaspervote]

97. You are entitled to your opinion... everyone has one

If you are wanting to make your case, why not back it up with links that prove your point as you seem to be the one “hectoring and lecturing.”

If not, well then argue away...pound your fists whatever. It’s up to you.

[2020Junker]

101. It's not my OP

The OP presents a nice lecture for progressives. I'm disagreeing with it.

I don't need nonsensical Twitter links to point out bald reality. Biden is polling at 28-30%. And that's with all the favorable variables possible on his side with no significant competition from that wing of the party.

Is that a ringing endorsement for moderates? Doesn't seem so to me.

And again, you can't refute that the people giving us the lecture can't even make their own state work.

[Thekaspervote]

109. No one is speaking of nonsensical twitter links. The posters here are giving merit to what they are

Saying by pointing to polls, or those on the ground that have done the hard grunt work and know of which they speak.

Your arguement is an opinion and you are entitled to it. No one is trying to deny you your opinion.

[LanternWaste]

54. If we reject the lawn mower to mow our lawn...

I suppose common sense dictates we use spoons to do it instead.

[2020Junker]

55. No, we hire different lawn mowers

That one was a bit of a stretch on your part.

[Eliot Rosewater]

135. The sad part of all this and the reason I think we wont ultimately survive is that

ANY democrat cant win 70-30 just by not being the fascist murdering dictator.

If we are allowed to have an honest election and win, I dont know if we can fix the damage done by the orders of putin and bannon.

We are in SUCH WORSE shape than we realize, entire government departments decimated, dysfunctional.

[Thekaspervote]

58. "They" meaning the Dems? If so, how...the state of FL isn't run by the dems

[2020Junker]

59. The people in the article

We had a relatively moderate candidate in 2016. These people still couldn't deliver their state, running it or not.

Why should I heed their advice for other states when they can't even wrangle their own?

[Thekaspervote]

67. Please see post #63 with link

The most current map...including FI (now leaning dem) shows dotard in trouble. That is what you want is it not, to remove him from office? Right?

since Biden, the moderate has a significant lead over the other candidates this is our best chance of removing him

[2020Junker]

81. He's in trouble everywhere

And Biden isn't the only candidate beating him in many of these state polls.

I get wanting to promote one's own candidate, but only mentioning him while omitting others who are also doing well against Trump is a little eh to me. Not dishonest. But not honest either.

[Thekaspervote]

94. I never said Biden was the only one that could beat dotard, I said he was the one in the lead.

That’s not dishonest no matter how you put it. Your veiled statement about being dishonest in itself is dishonest

[sheshe2]

129. 'Establishment' Democrats as Agents of Change

by Nancy LeTourneau
April 10, 2019

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212395417

[Cha]

134. Yes they are, she! The "Establishment" that

some try to insult the Best Dems with is totally Not working anymore.

For instance.. John Lewis is an Establishment Dem.. and so is President Obama. I'll take them any day over the ones who throw at others..

Just KR your OP..Thank You!

[treestar]

76. Reality is not optional. The Electoral College is a reality.

Those voters in the swing states don't care about a revolution and don't have a big problem with "the Establishment." The 60s wants that term back.

[NYMinute]

82. I was sick of the establishment chefs with a license from the health department

So I tried a vendor in a back alley. Bought a tuna sandwich.

Got food poisoning.

[redstateblues]

158. I love Beto. He is going nowhere this time around. Time to plugged into reality

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

152. I'm with you... no more moderates!! We need a revolution in this country!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Go Vols]

159. +1

[honest.abe]

2. Here's the full list..

Last edited Tue Aug 20, 2019, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Biden, Bennet, Booker, Bullock, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar, O’Rourke, Yang.

I agree Sanders should not be on the list but not sure about Warren. However, I get their point. Warren's appeal may be too narrow.

[ancianita]

12. Too narrow? As in appeals with in-depth plans that help Indians, women, gun-threatened kids,

money laundering banks and cartels, working class folk working two low wage jobs, the anti-polluters fighting for the Everglades and coasts? That kind of narrow?

Warren is tailor made to understand the dgaf people of Florida. She's got plans that will hit where they live, and she doesn't care what establishment message Dems give.

When she gets done delivering her message, Florida voters won't care what Dems tell them that "appeals" to them, either.

Florida doesn't care about perfection; they think a good candidate is a good candidate.

All this sorting and labeling gets on the average voter's nerves pretty much everywhere.

If Dems want to win, they don't get to run the show at this point. Voters just want them to show up, do their thing and wait for results of the primaries.

imo

[Demsrule86]

17. She will be deemed a socialist and they won't vote for her.

[ancianita]

26. All I'm saying is that she can address their problems in ways that aren't socialist. She's got a

way of talking that will convince them that the real socialists of the country keep tax money for themselves, instead of spending it on solving their problems the way she will.

She can knock out the idea of socialism as a thing of the past; that right now, this election is about problem solving and their wallets.

imo

[Thekaspervote]

98. Would dearly love to see a fe prez. Supported Hillary in 08 and again in 16. If she can do what

You feel she can and get her message across without the socialism tag then great.

I really wish she would “untether” her wagon from Bernie. It’s hurting her as far as the socialist term. They really have little in common

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/12/sanders-warren-voters-2020-1408548

It is worrisome that she isn’t doing better with the AA voting block. Can’t win without it

[ancianita]

127. True. At the same time she's aware that they might act up like last time, and so she's playing

a kind of pressure valve role in keeping them with Dems when/if Bernie can't get the nomination.

Yes, no Dem can win without the AA vote. A black male VP running mate could help with that.

[Thekaspervote]

132. Somebody floated the idea of Deval Patrick as a top VP pick. Said he and Biden are close

Biden or no I really like him a lot. Thought that was really interesting.. you?

[ancianita]

138. I can't say I like him. He's a manager at Bain Capital, and too conservative for me. Not saying he

couldn't evolve but might be a corporate man if he ran for president later.

I'd prefer Cory Booker. Even then, I just don't think he's got national appeal.

Running mates might be a problem. She might have to have someone from the West coast or South. Just sayin'.

[Thekaspervote]

145. I did not know that about mr. Patrick, thx for informing

[ancianita]

149. I don't really know him, but the few times I've heard him speak he's seemed too calculating.

I checked wikipedia, read that he's really accomplished, well educated, but the times I've seen him interviewed on the news, he's been too uneven in his stances, too clever in style, too quick to abandon Democratic Party liberalism, for me to trust him.

I guess I'd better take a closer look.

[Thekaspervote]

133. Just wanted to say too I think Jay Inslee is great! I sure wish his campaign would catch fire!!

[honest.abe]

39. I think she may have issues with certain voter blocks in particular black voters.

From MSN..

.. other white candidates are struggling to show the biracial support that is so essential to winning the South, most notably Pete Buttigieg (whose black support in the Fox poll was too slight to register) and Elizabeth Warren (at 8 percent among black voters, compared to 25 percent among white voters). For the surging Warren, this is becoming an increasingly serious obstacle to her emergence as a potential progressive challenger to Biden, and to the “unity candidate” mantle she would need as the nominee.

It’s not surprising that Warren isn’t that strong among black voters. She is, for all her “populism,” a former Harvard professor representing a very white state. Her following is disproportionately college-educated, higher income, and self-consciously progressive — people who are sometimes called “wine track” voters (despite her professed affection for beer). Black Democrats are significantly less likely to self-identify as “progressives” than white Democrats.

Indeed, the one-dimensional nature of Warren’s support is holding her back in places like South Carolina, where, according to a new Post and Courier poll, she is leading Biden among white voters but running a weak fourth among black voters, leaving her a bit behind Sanders overall.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/elizabeth-warrens-struggle-to-draw-black-voters-is-a-big-problem/ar-AAG42ny

If she cannot inspire black voters to come out and vote we are in trouble.. if she is our nominee.

[ancianita]

50. We'll see before she's up for nominee, I'm sure. There's no winning without the black vote.

Primary breakdowns will reveal the range of candidates' chances.

Thanks for the link.

[Thekaspervote]

146. Agree.. thx for the informative post

[Celerity]

23. you forgot one, Bullock

[honest.abe]

35. Thanks fixed n/t.

[Celerity]

125. yw

[thesquanderer]

44. Surprised Yang made their approved list. UBI is about as leftist as you can get. (n/t)

[honest.abe]

47. Yeah, I think he gets a pass on the leftist issue since he is also an entrepreneur.

Just my guess.

[Celerity]

131. not if it is used to justify cuts to rest of the welfare state and ends up increasing poverty

Commentary: Universal Basic Income May Sound Attractive But, If It Occurred, Would Likelier Increase Poverty Than Reduce It

https://www.cbpp.org/poverty-and-opportunity/commentary-universal-basic-income-may-sound-attractive-but-if-it-occurred

At first blush, universal basic income (UBI) seems a very attractive idea, especially to a progressive. Yet it suffers from two serious problems. First, the odds are very high that an effort to secure UBI would prove quixotic. Second, and more disconcerting, any possibility of overcoming the formidable obstacles to UBI will almost certainly require a left-right coalition that has significant conservative support — and conservative support for UBI rests on an approach that would increase poverty, rather than reduce it.

The key issues related to UBI include what it would cost, how it would be paid for, and the risks it poses. Let’s take these one at a time.

The Cost

There are over 300 million Americans today. Suppose UBI provided everyone with $10,000 a year. That would cost more than $3 trillion a year — and $30 trillion to $40 trillion over ten years. This single-year figure equals more than three-fourths of the entire yearly federal budget — and double the entire budget outside Social Security, Medicare, defense, and interest payments. It’s also equal to close to 100 percent of all tax revenue the federal government collects.

Or, consider UBI that gives everyone $5,000 a year. That would provide income equal to about two-fifths of the poverty line for an individual (which is a projected $12,700 in 2016) and less than the poverty line for a family of four ($24,800). But it would cost as much as the entire federal budget outside Social Security, Medicare, defense, and interest payments.

Some UBI proponents respond that policymakers could make the UBI payments taxable. But the savings from doing so would be relatively modest, because the vast bulk of Americans either owe no federal income tax or are in the 10% or 15% tax brackets. For example, if you gave all 328 million Americans a $10,000 UBI and the cost was $3.28 trillion a year (about $33 trillion over ten years) before taxes, then making the UBI payments taxable would reduce that cost only to something like $2.5 trillion or $2.75 trillion (or $25 trillion to $27.5 trillion over ten years).

Paying For It

Where would the money to finance such a large expenditure come from? That it would come mainly or entirely from new taxes isn’t plausible. We’ll already need substantial new revenues in the coming decades to help keep Social Security and Medicare solvent and avoid large benefit cuts in them. We’ll need further tax increases to help repair a crumbling infrastructure that will otherwise impede economic growth. And if we want to create more opportunity and reduce racial and other barriers and inequities, we’ll also need to raise new revenues to invest more in areas like pre-school education, child care, college affordability, and revitalizing segregated inner-city communities.

A UBI that’s financed primarily by tax increases would require the American people to accept a level of taxation that vastly exceeds anything in U.S. history. It’s hard to imagine that such a UBI would advance very far, especially given the tax increases we’ll already need for Social Security, Medicare, infrastructure, and other needs.

The Risk

UBI’s daunting financing challenges raise fundamental questions about its political feasibility, both now and in coming decades. Proponents often speak of an emerging left-right coalition to support it. But consider what UBI’s supporters on the right advocate. They generally propose UBI as a replacement for the current “welfare state.” That is, they would finance UBI by eliminating all or most programs for people with low or modest incomes.

Consider what that would mean. If you take the dollars targeted on people in the bottom fifth or two-fifths of the population and convert them to universal payments to people all the way up the income scale, you’re redistributing income upward. That would increase poverty and inequality rather than reduce them.

Yet that’s the platform on which the (limited) support for UBI on the right largely rests. It entails abolishing programs from SNAP (food stamps) — which largely eliminated the severe child malnutrition found in parts of the Southern “black belt” and Appalachia in the late 1960s — to the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), Section 8 rental vouchers, Medicaid, Head Start, child care assistance, and many others. These programs lift tens of millions of people, including millions of children, out of poverty each year and make tens of millions more less poor.

snip

[RandiFan1290]

3. Those 'officials' do not speak for me. nt

[vsrazdem]

5. Dont ya just love it when they tell US what we need.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

153. Seriously!! We need Bernie, plain and simple!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cartoonist]

6. Advice from Florida?

No thanks.

[Nanjeanne]

7. That has worked well in the past - not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

155. Will we EVER learn?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BeyondGeography]

9. Lol...more lack of cowbell please!

Because it has always worked so well and Trump never happened. Yeah.

[highplainsdem]

10. They're prominent Democrats who speak for a lot of Democrats. Former FLA Senate Democratic leader.

Former Fort Lauderdale mayor. A state senator who's a former Florida House Democratic speaker. Former and current commissioners and other officials.

The chairman of the group is Steve Geller, a Broward County commissioner and former Florida Senate Democratic leader. The other members of the steering committee are County Commissioners Mark Bogen and Tim Ryan, School Board member Patricia Good, former county Property Appraiser Lori Parrish, former Fort Lauderdale Mayor Jack Seiler and state Sen. Perry Thurston, who is also a former Florida House Democratic leader.

-snip-

“It is our judgment that the base has already been energized by Donald Trump,” Geller said in an interview. While appealing to the Democratic Party’s base voters is important, Geller said caucus members believe that swing voters will decide the election because of the importance of a handful of states in the Electoral College.

“This is not a national election. You can pile up a 5 million vote majority in California, a 3 million vote majority in New York, and if you lose by 50,000 votes in Pennsylvania or Michigan, it has the same impact,” Geller said.

-snip-

Geller said members of the group are committed to working on behalf of whomever the party nominates.

“If it’s Bernie and if it’s Elizabeth Warren, we will be there helping them. I’m not saying they can’t win,” he said. “Donald Trump is going to call any of our nominees a scary socialist. But it’s much harder to make that stick with Joe Biden or Steve Bullock than it is with Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, particularly Bernie Sanders who’s run as a Democratic socialist.”

[sharedvalues]

14. Maybe they can focus on telling GOP base about Rupert Murdoch

If they would spend some time telling FL voters that Murdoch and Fox are trying to screw them, and why, they might win some of those voters over.

[highplainsdem]

19. What makes you think they haven't? What makes you think Democratic leaders in the state

legislature and metropolitan areas aren't doing all they can for the Democratic Party?

They want to win in 2020.

They're making this recommendation based on their best professional assessment of who can win in Florida.

[Thekaspervote]

25. It's well known that dotard's base isn't going to be swayed. Why would they waste their time

Or money on that futile effort?

[sharedvalues]

141. It's well known that half of the trump base is reachable

Half of the Trump base is hardcore fools and racists.

But half is brainwashed by Fox and Limbaugh and are reachable- but Democrats need to go on offense against rightwing propaganda. They need to tell the Trump base that Fox is lying to them.

Also, it’s a rightwing talking point that the trump base can’t be persuaded. The right wants to tell us to give up on persuasion. Don’t listen.

[Demsrule86]

18. They are correct. This is not a national election but an electoral college election and it will be

hard...those who think anyone can beat Trump are wrong.

[blm]

32. Elizabeth Warren can explain and sell healthy capitalism better than anyone

who has ever been a candidate. She can explain it in common sense terms that any person of any educational background can understand, And she can explain why her plans will PROTECT capitalism as it works for ALL far better than those like Trump who would blow it up through further deregulation that feeds into the malignancy of predatory capitalism.

[2020Junker]

38. If they're so smart, why did they fail in 2016?

Last I checked, Trump won Florida.

If this august body with all this knowledge and experience couldn't deliver their own state with a moderate vs. Trump the first time around, why would I listen to their advice when it comes to other states? They couldn't even manage their own.

Hard pass.

[Thekaspervote]

63. It's a republican held state... how would you expect that to happen.

This is a fairly current map, FL included..with the moderate Biden in the lead

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212373659#post2

[2020Junker]

74. That's exactly the point

It's a Republican held state. They can't do anything in their own backyard. But they're going to tell people how to manage their backyards?

Maybe if they could deliver their own, I'd listen to their advice

[Thekaspervote]

95. You are entitled to your opinion

[Jose Garcia]

113. Their county went for Hillary 2-1 over Trump

[sacto95834]

90. I find it interesting...

Free advice from a bunch of people who can't even win in their own state. I would find their advice more compelling had they turned the Florida legislature and/or executive blue.

In 2018 didn't Florida run a very progressive candidate for governor that came within a hair of winning and now the advice is to run moderates? Odd. But maybe it's me and I can't follow the logic here.

[delisen]

13. When was the last time Florida secured its elections?

pre-Election 2000 I believe.

[Joe941]

15. complete garbage!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

156. You said it!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

20. Here's another look as to why this might play out with a moderate, not only Fl but nation wide

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/joe-biden-exciting-candidate

“Joe Biden, the boring candidate... that’s why he’s doing so well.”

Thx for posting by the way!!

[not_the_one]

21. more of the same?

I don't think so.

They have played this game election, after election, after election. THAT is why we are in the position we are in.

If I HAVE to, I will vote Biden. But he is my probably my fourth or fifth personal choice.

He is the establishment's last ditch effort to hang on. After him, there is no one left.

That old definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome, comes to mind.

And Biden should be REQUIRED to say whether, if the scenario presents it self, he would pardon turdface, or not...

And what about the huge new group of young voters, who are going to be the ones LIVING with what we vote for?

I think their patience is pretty limited, and rightly so, since they are frequently the ones looking down the barrel of an AR-15.

[Celerity]

30. Biden would NEVER pardon Rump, zero chance, if he did it would destroy our Party nt

[Thekaspervote]

33. Your points are well taken. If only the young voters would vote.. their track record is terrible!

So, if you have a magic wand that will bring the young voters to the polls, by all means proceed!!
There’s not a democrat here that would not applaud a wave of new COMMITED young voters regardless of who their candidate choice is.

Change and commitment go hand in hand

[CaliforniaPeggy]

34. I am right there with you! Your post is right on. Thanks! n/t

[nini]

108. if you're worried about young voters..

they sure as fuck better vote to get this asshole out of office and consider who can do that whether it's their dream candidate or not.

This is no normal election. If we fuck this one up the Republic is dead and life will be far worse than dealing with a moderate instead of a far lefty.

[Kurt V.]

29. lol. we live in a time of hyper partisanship. the *prominent group* needs to catch up or sit down.

[FM123]

31. I am a Broward County Democrat and this Real Solutions Caucus(?) does not speak for me!

[comradebillyboy]

37. It will be interesting to see if Warren can sucessfully

broaden her base. Her improved standing in the polls is tribute to the quality of the campaign she's run. Now to see if she can make headway with African Americans and white moderates. If she can do that then she will put the electability arguments to rest.

[elleng]

49. GOP data

[bluedigger]

45. Whatever happened to the conservative wing of the Democratic Party?

Kind of weird how our big tent ranges from "socialist" to "moderate" these days, isn't it?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

46. Are they fighting against Florida's crooked elections first and foremost?

[elleng]

48. I sure hope so!

[evertonfc]

51. valid point

I do think Warren or Sanders could best Trump but it would be more difficult than others. I'm pretty far left but think a Bullock type canidate would expand the map. I don't think Warren or Sanders will be the nominee. Don't be surprised if one of the surviving 2nd tier canidates makes a push later. Once the stage clears- the contrast in personality matters. Bill Clinton is an example.

[Gothmog]

52. Socialism polls badly and would kill a far left candidate

Link to tweet

THE MAIN TAKEAWAYS are that socialism, broadly speaking, is unpopular, but Republicans have work to do if they want to tarnish some key Democratic proposals. Once voters hear about the agenda as framed by Republicans, 61% say it is socialist. Calling Democrats’ policies “socialist” causes a 10-point drop in their popularity.

-- FOR EXAMPLE: Take ‘MEDICARE FOR ALL.’ When asked about supporting Medicare for All, and hearing it described as “guaranteed health care coverage regardless of … income, and every American’s health insurance would come from a single government-run plan,” 41% favor it, 55% oppose and 4% are unsure. When Republicans start describing it as causing “doctor shortages, longer wait times for urgent care and delays in access to the latest drugs for cancer and other serious diseases,” the numbers move to 34% favor and 60% oppose.

-- THE ‘GREEN NEW DEAL’ is actually above water when described as a plan that “would work to address climate change and income inequality, and transition the United States from an economy built on fossil fuels to one driven by clean energy.” 48% favor, 46% oppose and 7% are unsure.

IT SINKS when Republicans start describing it as potentially costing “93 trillion dollars” and hiking energy bills by $3,000. It goes then to 32% support and 61% oppose. Polling memo … Poll deck

[Fiendish Thingy]

56. AstroTurf organization crafting false narrative

All the evidence points to inspiring the Dem base to turnout, not flipping swing voters, as the strategy to win the WH.

[blm]

61. Exactly.

[MarcA]

122. +1,000. E$tabli$hment can't put forth evidence so resorts to

"leftist", "extreme", not "moderate" platitudes. A version of Lunzian
rethug lite labeling. The truth is most of the moneyed interests don't
want necessary reforms and too many Democrats are either afraid
to go against them or actually don't oppose them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

157. Same old story, same old song and dance, my friend... not falling for it THIS time!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[delisen]

60. Warren has more Wall Street acceptance

than many people realize.

It is because she is knowledgeable, capable, reasonable,and understands the need for certainty.

Better a regulatory brain who knows what she is doing than a run amok type.

Janet Yellin was accepted for the same reasons.

They are smart, determined people who will never morph into Vlad the Destroyer.

They are not revolutionaries--they are people who ca captain a ship through rough waters, and that is what we have ahead of us.

[Gothmog]

62. Washington Post-Democrats back off once-fervent embrace of Medicare-for-all

Link to tweet

But in recent months, amid polling that shows concern among voters about ending private insurance, several of the Democratic hopefuls have shifted their positions or their tone, moderating full-throated endorsement of Medicare-for-all and adopting ideas for allowing private insurance in some form.

“What I think has happened in the Democratic primary is people recognize that some of the concerns about single-payer are not coming from special interests but the public,” said Neera Tanden, a former top aide to Hillary Clinton and now president of the Center for American Progress. (A government-run health system is sometimes called a single-payer system.)....

Now some Democrats warn of the perils for their party in taking a position that, to important groups of voters, could seem just as disruptive as the GOP’s push to kill the ACA.

“There is nothing more personal to people than their health care,” said Kathleen Sebelius, who consulted on Harris’s plan and served as health and human services secretary in the Obama administration. “Anything that calls for the vast majority of Americans to lose what they have — that’s a very dangerous place to start a conversation.”....

Other surveys have found less support. About 8 in 10 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents in a Pew poll in July said the federal government has a responsibility to ensure health coverage, but less than half said it should be through a single government plan.

And in a July poll of Iowa voters by CBS News/YouGov, two-thirds of Democrats said they preferred a government health program that competed with private insurance, compared with 34 percent who favored one that replaced private insurance entirely.

[questionseverything]

77. the people who don't want medicare 4 all are the people that already have good healthcare

and do not care what their neighbors have to do without as long as THEY GOT THEIRS

how we get there can and should be debated but acting like it is not necessary is more like repub speak

[NYMinute]

84. Which is 85% of the people and they will come out to vote in droves

to protect their health care.

[questionseverything]

87. in the primaries you are prob right

then in the general when the youth don't show up because they have to pay for all the old folks and no one will listen to them...we get trump again


is how it went in 2016





hope I am wrong

[NYMinute]

112. MfA was not on the ballot in 2016

but Jill Stein was -- supported by Nina Turner, David Sirota, Brihana Joy Grey, Cornel West, Susan Sarandon and others ... check who they are supporting.

[questionseverything]

144. wow talk about changing lanes

hope you don't break a hip with that zig zagging


jill stein must be the most powerful individual ever born, since to hear people talk she singled handedly got the most ready for office woman in the world defeated

happy for you if you don't need healthcare but millions still do

[Thekaspervote]

92. As a health care professional your statement isn't correct. Nurses doctors all health care

Professionals want a better system that covers every one.

Please point to any link anywhere that supports your claim

[questionseverything]

143. are u saying docs and nurses dont want nedicare for all?

n/t

[Thekaspervote]

148. No, I'm saying that you said those that have health care could care less if others don't and nothing

Is further from the truth.

[questionseverything]

150. no i said those that dont support medicare 4 all already have theirs

nurses were the first group to back healthcare for all so it is obviously not them that doesn't care

I don't remember reading where docs stand on things, I know my personal docs want it, they want to practice medicine not paperwork

[questionseverything]

151. love the nurses

http://njtoday.net/2017/09/15/nurses-support-sen-sanders-medicare-act/

[Autumn]

68. The Florida Dems did a wonderful job in 2016... oh, never mind.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

69. I wish there was a way we could model a moderate centrist in an election against trump.

[Autumn]

70. I'm sure there is some way of Florida gauging how a moderate centrist would do against Trump.

But no... Florida be like

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. .....

“GOP data”

Let me catch my breath



What else does the GOP have data on? Migrant hordes and pizza parlor sex rings?

[Autumn]

88. Well that was 2016 for sure. Don't see any data to back up what 1nonblond, a Biden fan

on twitter says will happen with 45 states in 2020. So I'm gonna say fangirl on twitter is pulling all that out of thin air until she posts something to back it up. I think we have 4, maybe 5 very solid candidates that will beat the orange ass black and blue. YMMV

[blm]

91. Why? Do you think Trump can make a case for predatory capitalism better

Than Warren can make the case for healthy capitalism on a debate stage?

[Gothmog]

71. Democrats Back Off Medicare-for-All

I am glad that Democrats are backing off of Medicare-for All https://politicalwire.com/2019/08/20/democrats-back-off-medicare-for-all/

“The idea of Medicare-for-all — a unified government health program that would take over the basic function of private insurance — became a liberal litmus test at the outset of the presidential campaign, distinguishing Democratic contenders who cast themselves as bold visionaries from more moderate pragmatists.”

“But in recent months, amid polling that shows concern among voters about ending private insurance, several of the Democratic hopefuls have shifted their positions or their tone, moderating full-throated endorsement of Medicare-for-all and adopting ideas for allowing private insurance in some form.”

“This unmistakable, if sometimes subtle, shift in tone stems in part from Democrats’ fear of giving away a newfound advantage over Republicans on health care.”

[NYMinute]

85. MfA is political suicide nt

[Thekaspervote]

104. Indeed

[treestar]

75. Have to agree with them that we need to appeal to the swing voters in swing states

it is the reality of the Electoral College

[doc03]

80. They are 100% right we are not going to win PA, Michigan or Wisconsin with

a Bernie Sanders or Warren. They could win in a solid blue state but in the swing states they wouldn't have a chance.

[Thekaspervote]

105. Yup!

[blm]

107. Why? Do you believe Trump can make a better case for

Predatory capitalism in the debates than Warren can make for HEALTHY capitalism that benefits ALL Americans? You may know she taught this subject for years, which is how Obama heard of her and formed the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

[elleng]

114. Thanks. I don't get calling her far ANYTHING,

surely not far left; more like utterly rational.

[doc03]

115. She has a big spending program for everything

that translates to she is going to raise your taxes.

[blm]

117. Warren has the economic facts to combat the fearmongering.

Do you think Trump can make the case for predatory capitalism better than Warren can make the case for healthy capitalism?

[doc03]

118. He doesn't have to be will say only he

can fix it and they believe and play on their fears. Republicans are scared of change.

[elleng]

120. Not in my language.

[doc03]

123. She is just to preachy like Al Gore

was perceived to be.

[elleng]

124. NOT, of course, if people bother to LISTEN to what they say,

but many don't, I guess, or can't.

[doc03]

126. I agree with her but the Democrats that swicthed

to Trump don't listen or try to understand. I don't understand this used to be a county dominated by Democrats and now Republicans hold every elected office. On blame it on the death of union jobs.

[elleng]

128. I defer comment on them generally,

but they surely could listen.

[doc03]

130. The union plant I worked in closed in 2009.

It was restarted this year and they took a union vote and it failed miseralby. Rather than the Bush recession they blame Democrats and the union.

[questionseverything]

147. bernie had tons of support in wisconsin and michigan

https://www.salon.com/2016/04/06/it_was_a_blowout_bernie_sanders_won_a_whopping_99_percent_of_counties_in_the_wisconsin_primary/



https://www.mlive.com/news/2016/03/how_bernie_sanders_beat_hillar.html



so i am not sure why you say that

[George II]

173. Those were both open primary states where republicans could cross over and vote for....

.....the candidate they DIDN'T want.

That support would have evaporated in the general election.

[questionseverything]

174. in your opionion

<shrugs>

[myohmy2]

110. "This election will be decided in a handful of swing states,..."

...hogwash...

"...Sanders and Warren consistently poll in second and third place behind Biden..."

...the mood of each election is unique...this country is looking for new answers to old problems...this country swung from President Obama to trump looking for such answers...the old political formulas are fading fast...temp/pence signs sit next to Union Home signs spotting the landscape...Dems need to get back to basics fast...

...people want answers and solutions not more corporate bullshit...

...Bernie and Elizabeth are the real McCoy...Bernie and Elizabeth are the answer...

...just say NO to more establishment blow...

...

[doc03]

116. Two words from 2016 "Blue Wall" Oh and she

got this your concern is noted.

[Thekaspervote]

139. Yes, back to dem basics

Here are 2 links that might interest you... or not

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/19/joe-biden-exciting-candidate

Establishment Democrats are agents ofchange

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212395417

[myohmy2]

161. blah, blah, blah...

...all these so-called experts don't know squat...all they know is hype and spin to make a buck...

...nobody knows with certainty who or what will guarantee a Dem victory in 2020...it's all a guess...

...they've spent billions and still can't tell me with certainty what the weather will be like in two days yet alone tell me who will win us an election a year and a half out...

...ain't gonna work...we and President Sanders shall not be distracted or denied...

...think Bernie...

[BannonsLiver]

166. "think Bernie."

Nah, I really don’t THINK so.

[Princetonian]

121. Calling Barack's brother Joe... you are needed in Florida.

[Thekaspervote]

140. As of right now the electorate map shows Fl leaning dem

Biden in the lead...I’ll take it

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212373659#post2

[Princetonian]

167. Nice electoral map with Trump is underwater in TX and GA.

Democrats have chances where they normally would not with a VP Beto or VP Stacey Abrams, perhaps.

Thanks for the uplifting map!

[pansypoo53219]

136. is hillary president? no. screw moderate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

154. BINGO!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[betsuni]

163. If the Democratic Party's platform was the most progressive in history, how was

the nominee moderate?

[pansypoo53219]

175. REAL PEOPLE DO NOT READ A PLATFORM! be sensible. she ran as a competent moderate

[Joe941]

142. Didn't we try that in 2016?

[Cha]

160. Don't act like you don't know how

trump got rigged in 2016.

[Bradical79]

168. No thanks -nt

[TreasonousBastard]

170. Ya know, we can't get most of DU to line up with the most leftish candidates, so how...

would we expect to get much of the 75-80% of the rest of the population that does not lean far left to go for Bernie or Liz?

Actually, I think Liz could present herself as not excessively radical and have some appeal with them. The question is how much appeal...

Every one of us lives in a bubble-- the questions are how big and transparent those bubbles are. Both the far left and far right are often too tiny and opaque.

[elleng]

171. I don't see Senator Warren as 'excessively radical,' in fact not radical AT ALL,

unless 'radical' means prepared to remedy the wrongs/excesses of capitalism.

[TreasonousBastard]

172. I don't either, but she is being portrayed as "very" left by some of her supporters and many...

of her detractors.

Unfortunately, facts don't always matter in an election, but presumptions and impressions often do. We have absolute proof that swiftboating works. And swiftboated she will be.

If she gets the nomination, I hope her campaign can fight off the attacks she must know are coming.

Of course, that's pretty much true for the rest of them.

[LonePirate]

176. America is f'ed up if swing voters fear progressive goals more than the current fascist in the WH.