80 yr old black woman in S. Carolina says Harris and Booker turned her off by attacking Biden

[highplainsdem]

https://www.middletownpress.com/news/article/Biden-confounds-critics-as-fans-welcome-hugs-and-14402283.php

"You are my man," Mary Means, 80, blurted out when she was called on to ask a question at a Wednesday town hall in Spartanburg. The crowd cheered, and Biden laughed, before Means asked him about his plans to bolster cybersecurity protections.

Means, who is black, said she's mostly concerned about foreign policy, and believes Biden is best prepared to address it. She was also alienated by Harris and Booker, the major African-American candidates in the race, after they criticized Biden at the debates.

"Both of them turn me off when they attack Joe," she said. "My thing is, if you climb the ladder, climb on your own merits. Don't climb by trying to push somebody else down."

Emphasis added.

I believe that sort of reaction has had a lot to do with Biden not losing much support among black voters despite the attacks by Harris and Booker.

[LakeArenal]

1. She's not the only one. Nt

[Skya Rhen]

2. This is exactly what I have been hearing, over and over again. I doubt that this perception will go

away, any time soon...

[hlthe2b]

3. This was predictable by nearly anyone who spent a lot of time in the South.

Older AA's know and trust Biden and more importantly REALLY don't like political attacks against those they have deemed to be friends to their community.

Such attacks may have (at least temporarily) reverberated with younger AAs, but as I posted the night of the first debate, WILL backfire in the long run.

Booker and Harris will need to find another way.

[Perseus]

16. This is not a good thing, people are making passionate decisions

They need instead to look at the issues, why did Booker and Harris criticize Biden? What did he do that was so hurtful to them? Has he stayed in the same path since that happened? Why did Biden celebrate two republicans who have made a political career from racism? etc.

It is very troubling to find out that people are making passionate decisions. When the republican propaganda machine starts touching those buttons, will they migrate to the republican party because of what they heard?

[hlthe2b]

21. I think it is rather arrogant to judge a signficant population group's judgements based on

their assessments and conclusions being different from your own--especially since THEY LIVED THROUGH THE TIME at issue. If you think being condescending to older Southern African Americans is going to change their minds, I think you need to rethink.

[Thekaspervote]

38. Agree! After Senator Harris did her I gotcha moment Jim Clyburn & John Lewis pushed back

Against her claims. I think those 2 can very well be considered the last word on the matter.

Politics is a messy business! And who ever is elected, they better damn well be ready to cross the aisle and work with whom ever to secure those 1-2 gop votes to pass legislation that millions are depending on.

[Kahuna7]

27. He did not celebrate those racist republicans. That's a smear. He

celebrated a time when even though people were opposed on some things they managed to get important legislation passed in spite of their differences. You see, people of a certain age understand that. We understand how important it was to set aside personal differences for the greater good.

[Demsrule86]

29. I wouldn't support a either in a primary who bascially call Biden a racist...and went

after him with decades old stuff. I find it wrong, and people can vote on what they want...I would say folks rarely vote on issues. Vote blue no matter who in the general.

[Thekaspervote]

43. +1000

[quickesst]

4. the thing that amazes me....

.... is that Harris, and Booker along with their staff could not foretell what would happen, especially with the strong support Biden enjoys from the AA community. It's like no one stood up and asked, "Do we really want to do this? Maybe we should talk about it."

[Cha]

64. No kidding.. you don't erase decades

of someone's dedication to Civil Rights with some shots in a couple of debates.

Thanks, quickest

[Gothmog]

5. I am not surprised by this

[thesquanderer]

6. Booker started strong in the last debate, saying we should stop attacking each other...

...and then blew it by attacking Biden.

[Vegas Roller]

7. K&R nt

[NYMinute]

8. A lot of people make the mistake of not realizing

how sophisticated and astute the African-American electorate is.

This is a classic example.

One common misconception is that they voted for Obama in large numbers because he was black.

NO

They voted for him because he was charismatic, articulate, understood their issues and his policies were designed to increase equality.
Being black was just an icing on the cake but they would have voted for him even if he were to be white or latino or magenta.

[Green Line]

9. Exactly

[Thekaspervote]

10. This..they are a very savvy voting block. They see a leader in mr. Biden and the numbers show it

A 51% approval rating by South Carolinians ...

[Skya Rhen]

12. You nailed it!!!

[Kahuna7]

30. We trusted him to do the right thing. We also trust Joe. End of mystery...

Not because Joe worked with Obama. We knew that Joe was honest and good before we knew Obama.

[RO4Warren]

11. This IS important

Personally I have very little confidence in Biden to go the distance against Trump. That said I believe he's a basically decent human who is trying his best to do what he thinks is best for the country.

What I do have confidence in is that Warren will win the debate on 9/12 based on the issues, while continuing to demonstrate the focus, discipline, and level head she has somehow maintained throughout so far in spite of her INCREDIBLE workload. I believe she can speak far more specifically and directly to the issues most important to black voters, especially women, in this country. When she continues to take the high road by focusing on issues and wins the debate on those grounds without getting mean or petty, I believe this narrative on Biden and the black vote will start to turn.

One thing there can be no doubt about: the contrast between her and Biden will be striking.

[Thekaspervote]

13. I like her, but there really has been little to no shift in the polls of AA voters

It would have to seismic, having said that, I certainly do not have a crystal ball and maybe that will happen

Currently South Carolina, the bellwether for AA voters
Biden: 51%
Warren: 2%

[Blue_true]

97. AA didn't support President Obama in 2007 initially.

Once it became clear that he was for real and was running a better campaign with better ideas than Hillary, AA shifted massively to him.

[StarfishSaver]

110. I can't help but wonder

how many people who are touting every single black person who supports Biden and criticizes Harris as brilliant salt-of-the-earth truth telling representatives of black opinion will be as respectful of (and condescending to) black voters if a significant number of them eventually shift their support from Biden to Harris in the way that occurred with Clinton and Obama in 2007-8. I suspect that many of these people will suddenly have a different view of the validity of black opinion.

[Blue_true]

114. You may have a point. But one thing is certain, when America takes a turn for the better,

AA voters are the first to make that turn and lead the way.

[highplainsdem]

14. I've seen so many posts here about how the next debate will change everything.

Hasn't happened.

Won't happen.

I won't be surprised if the next debate sees Warren gain another point or two from the progressive base she and Sanders have been divvying up (the total of which is about equal to the support for Biden).

But I don't think she'll cut into Biden's support.

I admire Warren's skill as a debater. I enjoyed being on debate teams myself.

But debating isn't leadership.

Debates can be a useful way to give voters information, though a debate with ten people on stage isn't even particularly good for that.

But they're MUCH less important now than they used to be, now that voters have so many other sources of information.

[Thekaspervote]

17. This.. I saw lots of posts and other articles how the debates would really shift the polls

as in Harris’ case it did but was temporary.

EW has come up in the polls, but agree I highly doubt she will cut into mr. Biden’s lead, which has proven to be very “durable.”

[bluewater]

23. Before the debates Biden was at 32% average support, today he is at 28.9%

So, the debates certainly didn't help at all. And when you are only polling at ~30%,, even a 3% drop is significant.

[BeyondGeography]

19. You're right, but not because Biden is leading us anywhere

Three million people watched the last debate, maybe a few more this time. Say we get to a whopping 1.5 percent of Americans. There won’t be any big changes in the polls until people start voting.

As for leadership, Warren would change the country or at least die trying. Biden is waging a mostly idea-free campaign for the soul of America, where reasonable Republicans apparently abound, based on electability and taking us back to normal, or whatever that was, so please spare us on that front.

[highplainsdem]

25. "...the soul of America, whatever that is"? No wonder you don't understand why Biden's in the lead.

Biden will steer us away from the precipice Trump is threatening to push us over.

He'll restore our alliances and our values, bringing us back in line with what America should be.

He'll use all his skills, all his experience, and all his many friendships and connections to work toward improvements that can actually be achieved, as opposed to promising a lot of stuff that has zero chance of getting through Congress, or announcing he'll just try to do everything by executive order.

That IS leadership, and it's a shame you can't see that.

But his supporters can.

And that's why he's been in the lead for ten months now.

[Thekaspervote]

40. Bingo!!

[BeyondGeography]

47. Plus, no big changes for his wealthy contributors

https://www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/

Let’s hear it for the soul of America! Everyone’s a winner! 🎉

[Skya Rhen]

66. Please stop repeating this falsehood. This has been debunked on DU and elsewhere. Joe told the

wealthy contributors that their Trump tax breaks WILL go away, under Joe's Presidency, and that nothing will fundamentally change for them.

This meant that they will not miss their tax breaks because they do not need it. They will still be wealthy without it.

Please, let's speak truth especially when we know better...

Link to tweet

?s=20

[BeyondGeography]

68. Spin away, Biden is a corporate-friendly Dem offering a presidency of half-measures

He will not use the full power of the government to get the best deal for working people. He’s a transactional politician who gives away too much up front. He puts zero concern into the people who should have the most to fear from a Democratic President at this point in time. I know who I want to negotiate on my behalf and it isn’t Joe Biden.

[emulatorloo]

103. Dunno, I find Governor Dean pretty credible.

And I find your earlier post today comparing Biden to Warren G Harding pretty incredible.

Your scorched-earth negative campaigning against Democrats you don’t like is not doing Senator Warren any favors, although you seem to think it is. She deserves way better advocates.

[emmaverybo]

48. THIS!

[RO4Warren]

54. Name recognition and it's early is why Biden is in the lead

The fact is that most voters are only just beginning to tune in and haven't really been exposed much to Warren, or any of the other candidates besides Biden and maybe Sanders yet. We are the people who pay attention all the time. Most voters just... don't. And who can blame them? For too long, they haven't been able to see themselves reflected in our government, demographically or intellectually. They haven't felt government working for them. On the issues they care most about, the government tends to do nothing, or pays lip service to them while instead taking action on behalf of their big money donors and papering it over with the appearance of responding to voter concerns.

And let's face it, politics has been ugly and mean for a long time in this country. Most people don't want anything to do with it unless and until whatever civic education they had from their parents and schools makes them feel that they must.

[BeyondGeography]

60. Welcome to DU

[RO4Warren]

65. Thanks! I'm not a Democrat, but I am a Warren Democrat! n/t

[Demsrule86]

32. The ideas the Warren champions like MFA and free college will never pass so why should i support

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2019, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)

someone who throws out multiple ideas with no details or plans for getting it done? I do not support Warren...and she is a Senator with a GOP governor...that matters to me too...we have a limited amount of time to get stuff done...also without support in the AA community she can't be the nominee...hey she has my vote if I am wrong, but I don't see it. I seriously have stopped listening to her ideas...I am not persuadable in the primary-but blue no matter who in the general...and I think many are like this.

[Thekaspervote]

44. Me too! But indeed will vote blue regardless

[Demsrule86]

71. Blue no matter who....always.

[RO4Warren]

55. These things CAN and SHOULD pass...

..if Democrats win the Presidency and the Senate. There is a sea change happening in the American electorate. Those who fail to listen to the voters do so at their own peril... and the peril of all of us if we don't seize the day and defeat Trump.

Medicare for All was unthinkable 10 years ago. Marriage equality was unthinkable 20 years ago. Now most Americans support both. Will the issues be demagogued by Trump, the Republicans, and the insurance industry? Of course they will.

At the end of the day, this is the time we have to ask whether We, the People, run this country or not. I say we still do if we merely fight for the power that is already supposed to be ours.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/28/most-americans-now-support-medicare-for-all-and-free-college-tuition.html

[RO4Warren]

56. And let's acknowledge a debt to the best President of the last... 50 years? YES WE CAN!

Obama proved that when we say "YES, WE CAN!", we can. When we say "No, we can't", we lose. It's really that simple.

[Demsrule86]

70. We have 40 moderates in the house...it won't pass there and if we get the Senate...they too will be

moderate...it is not going to pass...and I thank God MFA won't pass starting all over will be as failed attempt and we probably will lose all health care. Sen. Warren can't say how she will do the things she talks about...because there is no way in many instances that it will happen. Blue no matter who...of course.

[emmaverybo]

42. "Debating isn't leadership." Bears repeating. Next president will not be debating Kim Jun Un and

Putin with a UN panel moderating, or repairing our alliances with NATO through zingers and gotchas, or playing dueling policies with India and Pakistan, or going toe-to-toe with Iran to get that nation back to the negotiating table.

Really can’t think of how a narrow set of skills displayed in a narrow set of circumstances in any way tests leadership—maybe of a university club president—but not the potential to lead a superpower among superpowers and in fact, to be THE leader of the free world.

What does test potential is a candidate’s perceived leadership potential and past leadership experiences.

Very little of that potential can be gleaned from tv debate performance.

[Thekaspervote]

45. Oh gosh my heavens!! A voice of sanity... thank you!

[RO4Warren]

59. The Bully Pulpit and How it Will Be Used.

I disagree, and I'm not sure I could do so more thoroughly.

What do you learn about a candidate from a debate?

1. You learn how they respond to intense pressure on the national stage. Do they shrink from conflict or attack ruthlessly? Or do they hold their ground and advance their positions with grace and poise? Trump really told us everything about the type of President he would be during the debates. So did Obama. So did both Bushes. So did Clinton. So did Reagan. You get to preview the tone at the top and test the mettle of the candidate, and it's a VERY accurate predictor of what their Presidency would be like.

2. Do they advocate for their positions coherently and clearly? This directly addresses the way the candidate would tackle international conflict, negotiate with foreign allies and adversaries, AND how they would set the tone for the country in times of national crisis and during State of the Union addresses.

Public speaking and debate are INCREDIBLY ESSENTIAL aspects of leadership, public or private. If you can't convincingly win an argument and bring people over to your position without resorting to ugliness or bullying, you should not be our President.

[RO4Warren]

61. Our greatest Presidents

What names do you hear when you ask who the greatest Presidents were?

Lincoln, Reagan, Kennedy, Clinton, Obama

What is the common theme? All inspiring public speakers with strong debate skills.

[GP6971]

62. Reagan??? Seriously????????? n/t

[RO4Warren]

63. If you ask Republicans, of course! Or historians. Or "Reagan Democrats".

He's consistently ranked top 10 and the first name off of almost every Republicans lips... until Trump. I'm not saying I agree, because I don't like his politics. But you can hardly argue that he wasn't an EFFECTIVE communicator, even if you hate what he was communicating.

Sadly, the same goes for Trump. He's very good at it. And that's why it is SO VERY IMPORTANT we put our best debate foot forward.

[emmaverybo]

74. I agree that public speaking is an important candidate skill. In fact, in Obama's case, in which

the skill was elevated to an extraordinary gift, his contemporary oratory got him noticed in the first place, and became the eloquent and charismatic voice of his campaign.

Some candidates, even those with more ordinary abilities, can touch our collective psyche, move, even heal us as a nation through public speaking.

TV debates, however, when they do have impact, are subject a)to the distorting effect of the medium itself b) to the influence of moderators pushing for a reality tv moment and they often
devolve into a popularity contest based not on thoughtful evaluation, but on shallow assessments—who “looked” the best, had the best zinger, got their gotcha in...

Gore, though a superior debater, who clearly had a deep understanding of issues next to Bush’s general cluelessness and often inarticulate responses—I recall the deer in the headlights look happening more than once—failed to impress the public as an intellect, but instead was seen as elitist, supercilious in contrast to Bush’s “folksiness. In fact, the public was forgiving, sympathetic to Bush because Gore was winning TOO much; Bush outmatched became Bush favored.

Reagan, at the end of his last debate, looked and sounded completely lost as he rambled on in closing about Star Wars. He had not overall performed well. But again, the post-debate discussion skewed the conversation and determined what bits would be played over and over. He was seen as the winner.

There must be a better way—some format in which substance, rather than mere personality or comfort with the medium, weighs in.

Julián Castro is a skilled and gifted speech-maker. Watch his convention key note vs, debate appearance and you see how unfairly disadvantageous the televised debate format was to him. And certainly to other candidates moderators tended to ignore.

Ultimately, the current format is unfair to thoughtful voters. And though, as you contend, it may give
audiences some notion of leadership abilities, it just as likely obscures and distorts these to align with
audience expectations, as tv watching has molded them. You and I may be looking for clues about leadership. Much of the audience is looking for cheap drama.

[emmaverybo]

80. Personality does matter, but in television debate, not so much on the world stage. Did Bush's

easy manner next to Gore’s perceived stiffness translate into superior leadership ability?

Admittedly, Bush’s seeming friendliness, comfort in his own skin, average guy-ness earned public
affection for a while, but to your point that debate reveals leadership capabilities, no. We should have preferred a leader with a wide-ranging, curious intellect and a deep knowledge of pressing issues, but we went for personality attributes that are fairly universally desired in the guy we want to enjoy a beer with—big mistake,

Reagan, as was discovered in retrospect, was already showing signs and of Alzheimer’s in the debate I referenced. His closing was incoherent except for the scripted lines he could intermittently key in on. Here again, a few superficial moments, scripted, won the day. Those closest to him said that, as a former actor, Reagan was a wonderful and flawless dramatic reader. Just off-script hopeless. So, once again, the tv debate was not a good measure of Reagan’s mental status even,
much less of his leadership capabilities going forward.

I don’t know either what format would best demonstrate substantive differences between candidates because judging their performances would always be subject
to criteria that may be particularly misleading. True, that criteria accords with our personality preferences, but with what it takes to govern effectively and wisely? Maybe we need role play.

A few presidential scenarios...

[emmaverybo]

85. Warren is the more intellectual of the two. Biden has never been an academic. He is, however, far

more knowledgeable about complex foreign policy issues than Warren.

And I think his intelligence, holistically, is underestimated. But then I have read his FP analyses. So intelligence is as intelligence does. He is an expert in certain areas she is lacking in and vice versa.


I feel too much of her intellect is driven into her economic policy initiatives. I don’t get vision from her that goes beyond plans. I get an ideology, economically based, I can agree with or not. I don’t get a larger sense of a vision for an America diametrically opposed to Trump’s exploitive re-imagining of a white America he is the lawless king of. Biden paints the picture. Maybe his doing so, more profoundly for me, is personality, not intellect.

You give two excellent examples of how personality and event came together to create a historic moment—in the moment. It was the force of personality that defined and dramatized those moments. Yes, that was leadership! Great job illustrating your point.

[emmaverybo]

92. Obama chose Biden in great part for his FP cred. I'd argue that we are in such a perilous situation

now that we do need more of a heavy weight to right the ship, if that can even be done. It is never done alone, true. Yet trust—on the part of our allies, and our enemies in our resolve—is crucial. Biden commands respect on the world stage and has established relationships with leaders in many
nations. He is ready day one.

Not saying any Dem can’t learn or won’t have expert advice. In general, Americans are not concerned nearly enough about national security and global affairs. Dems should be much more aware and concerned. However, because they and the public isn’t, I can’t argue that his experience and knowledge in these areas makes him more electable.

But to my mind, given obvious dangers, on this score, the global rather than domestic, Biden is far more qualified to lead a superpower among superpowers, to get Iran back to the table, to deal with NK, China, Russia, and perhaps avert a crisis between India and Pakistan, to tackle fail-out from failed policies in Central America which have contributed to the humanitarian crisis at our borders...these pressing issues for starters.

I don’t see any other candidate coming close to being qualified to conduct foreign policy while at the same time, according to experts, we are closer to a nuclear conflict than at any other time in history.

[emmaverybo]

98. Clinton was not a real player ever in FP though she had made extravagant claims to having been

one and made a fine Secretary of State. Let’s not fight past elections. Politicians exaggerate as we all do at one time or another. She had seen more of the workings of foreign relations than Obama and did have more profile on the world stage than Obama as a first lady.

Biden, of all candidates, has spelled out a powerful message about Trump’s aberrant presidency and the dire need to regain our democratic ideals, for leadership that does not give comfort to dictators and neo-Nazis at home, is not compromised, does not “rule” by an abuse of power.

You can twist the message into a call for all things past, but democratic ideals are timeless. Moreover, Biden has put forth his optimism about the future, a direction for foreign policy, and specific
plans for education, health, and climate change.

Indeed, in terms of FP, and day to day governance, Biden would be able to skip the learning curve
I contend may cost us. I do not see how you can fault that fact though you could argue with his
FP and relations positions—he has laid them out.

As to beating Trump, I believe Biden could do so by the widest margin. I also believe he is the candidate who can win in the states we need. But the argument about beating Trump is one I did not put forward.

My post made no claims about electability. I simply said, and you have not been able to refute, that Biden is the only candidate with in-depth FP experience and knowledge, thus prepared to take
the lead we must regain in the international community immediately.

[emmaverybo]

102. Alright. Thanks too. I accept your points about Secretary of State Clinton,

[Drunken Irishman]

83. Truman, Eisenhower, Johnson...

These three are often considered great, too, and none of 'em were known for their great oratory skills. There's not just a blank template on what a great president looks like.

But it's interesting you support Warren, and seem intent on using this as a line of attack against Biden, because I think one of Warren's weakest points as a candidate is her public speaking. Her voice is not strong. The best in this regard, of the female candidates running, is Harris.

She does have strong debate skills ... but as we saw in 2012 in the VP debate, so does Biden.

[emmaverybo]

107. They say Lincoln would not have been elected in the age of television debate. Not even radio. Now

that is one sad truth if true.

[yaesu]

22. I think the main problem will be people not bothering to vote which will guarantee 4 more for tRump.

[redstateblues]

35. Policy promises don't win elections

[Blue_true]

96. I too think the September debate will measurably redo the race.

And like you, I expect Senator Warren to be the big beneficiary.

African Americans are the most astute voting group in America. If they begin to feel that Biden can't close the deal against Trump, they will vote to nominate someone who can.

[Perseus]

15. Well I see people are vetting their candidates by the issues, not!...yesterday someone in DU said

they were now supporting Biden more than ever because people are talking about his gaffs...Wonderful way to vet a candidate...

Now this woman doesn't like Booker and Harris for pointing out things Biden did which was not in line with Democratic principles, no matter how long ago it was, those principles have not changed, and these were issues that affected both.

I would be very apprehensive and not celebratory about someone who makes passionate decisions, Biden may say something tomorrow that she doesn't like and she may vote for trump instead.

[bluewater]

18. Are you discounting the opinion of one 80 year old woman?

Surely that counts for something, a DU Op at the very least, don't you think?



Sure, it's not a blurry photo of teeth veneers, but it still counts.

[Kahuna7]

31. Oh, the poor lambs. Biden did a helluva lot more good that affected

black people, than some perceived slights. Every politician has worked with people and have done things that they may personally find distasteful. But that is the nature of the beast.

[Thekaspervote]

33. I see that, IMHO it has to do more with a sense of fair play. Which I think is a good quality

Voters are sick and tired of the negativity that seems to be coming from all sources i.e. driving people to say I like him all the more. It’s more of a push back against those that are so very negative.

As far as jumping ship and voting for the dotard , there will be those that are going to do that anyway.... it’s a given regardless

[Andy823]

69. Intesting

So by all the "negativity" does that include all the trashing of Harris since the first debate when Biden was not prepared? Or all the negative crap posted by obvious trolls here that us right wing talking points to smear her? And now it seems like some here are going after Warren because, I guess, she is tied with Biden in some polls? Who knows who will be next after the next debate.

All of our candidates need to be vetted, but we also need to hear positive things about them, and hear how they will fix things. I want a nominee who can be president for 8 years. A president who can take on not only trump and win, but who can take on the problems trump will leave. I want a president who is going to help those who really need help, not just the rich. We have more than one of them who can do that, and the one who wins the nomination, after all the votes are cast, will be the one I vote for in 2020.

[Demsrule86]

36. I completely disagree...and a post like this which is pretty condescending isn't going to persuade

anyone.

[Thekaspervote]

41. Yup!

Go throw a bunch of rotten vegetables on someone’s porch, then walk up, knock on the door and say “hi, I’m the one that just threw this garbage all over your porch, but will you switch and vote for my candidate instead?”

How’s that workin’ for ya?

[redstateblues]

39. That was me and I stand by it.

It’s not the only reason Im voting for Joe. He has the heart and experience to be President but I will say that the repeated bashing of Joe has galvanized my support. I can assure you I’m not the only one who feels this way. Im not a POC but I share a lot with the 51% in SC who are backing Joe.

[Skya Rhen]

73. +100,000,000

[yaesu]

20. well, lets hope she votes blue no matter who, hurt feelings got us tRump the last time. nt

[Demsrule86]

37. A person who can't win the AA community should not be our nominee ...it is an important constiuency.

[Kahuna7]

24. Biden was humble and dignified while being smeared...

Harris came across as a disingenuous scold. Booker came across as a square trying to be hip. They both came across as phonies and bullies.

[crazytown]

26. "Don't climb by trying to push somebody else down"

Exactly.

[katmondoo]

28. Made me turn against them too.

[Thekaspervote]

34. It human nature!

[Squinch]

46. Yes, but an 80.5 year old black woman in Peoria said it didn't turn her off.

This thread is a new dimension in absurdity.

[emmaverybo]

50. It has been established that more than one potential member of the AA electorate was turned off.

Certainly, it can be confirmed that Harris and Booker did not help themselves with AA Dem voters by implying that Biden was and is a racist whose racism personally offends them.

What is absurd? Take a look at the polls.

[redstateblues]

105. Your snark is not a good look. I doubt your candidate is like that

[Cuthbert Allgood]

113. The OP which has n equals 1 is not a good look, either.

Betcha I can find 80-year-old black people that voted for Trump.

[5starlib]

49. Harris and Booker launched cheap shots against Biden, and that's what is disgraceful

Especially Kamala as she had pre-planned her cheap attack for weeks before. No one minds a debate and discussion of issues, even disagreements, but the cheap shots are distasteful and unnecessary.

[Kahuna7]

57. Booker also had telegraphed his racial smears on twitter for weeks. nt

[onetexan]

111. Agree. Mrs. Means hit the nail on the head

You climb the ladder on your own merits, not by pushing someone else down.

Bravo mrs. Means

[treestar]

51. I'm with her.

[Cha]

52. And, I don't think Mary Means was the

only one.

Thank you, highplainsdem

[DemKittyNC]

53. Totally

Felt the same way as well. Switched to Warren.

[Tarheel_Dem]

58. I'm no soothsayer, but I predicted there would be backlash after the initial sugar high. And it...

didn't help Booker, not even temporarily.

[crazytown]

67. SOP is to back off and start saying conciliatory things,

turning the conservation around towards yourself. The t-shirt gambit put a damper on that.

[Cha]

91. Good on ya, Tarheel! Those were

some tumultuous days!

[Scurrilous]

72. K&R

[cilla4progress]

77. I was surprised that Harris climbed after that debate.

Maybe poll numbers lagged.

I expected this response.

[highplainsdem]

78. She got incredibly positive media coverage for that attack on Biden. That might have

swayed some people who later changed their minds...especially after the stories about the attack having been planned and rehearsed came out. Though the fact it was pre-planned was obvious when her campaign tweeted out a childhood photo within minutes, and within hours they were peddling their "That little girl was me" t-shirt, and that REALLY alienated a lot of people.

[StarfishSaver]

79. My 90-something-year-old black father was glad Harris challenged Biden. Does he cancel Means out?

I mean, if we're using individual black people as indicators, my dad's opinion should be just as relevant, right?

[Skya Rhen]

81. Look at the catastrophic plummet in her poll numbers - something caused this and we know what...

[Cha]

93. Yeah, it looks like the majority were/are

with Mary "you're my man" Means!

[Skya Rhen]

99. +1000

[evertonfc]

84. Joe Joe

Harris isn't going to be the nominee. Period. Now, my perspective from Tennessee is that Joe will carry this state and won't even have to work to do so. My guess is this will be the case in many southern states. His years as Obama's partner goes a long way here in the African American community. Joe isn't my 1st choice or 2nd really but gaffes or not- he has give support in this demographic here

[aikoaiko]

86. Clearly, Biden supporters should welcome more attacks if this is true.

[Skya Rhen]

87. They would most assuredly solidify and galvanize his support, which is already strong...

[aikoaiko]

88. At this point, I think the only one who can bring down Joe with an attack is Elizabeth Warren.

She had the gravitas to pummel him with his protection of credit card companies over regular consumers.

It really depends on whether or not she thinks she should be President.

[Skya Rhen]

89. It's worth a try...

[redstateblues]

106. Maybe in the next debate all the candidates should attack Obama again. That seemed to work well

All except Klobuchar -she had the good sense not to go there. What were they thinking?

[highplainsdem]

101. Reporters are saying voters are telling them they do NOT want the candidates attacking one another

in the debates.

Heard that on a couple of shows this morning, but because I was channel-surfing I'm not sure which ones.

Okay, one was ABC's This Week -- link to the transcript:, which I just checked

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-19-kevin-mcaleenan-sen-pat-toomey/story?id=65323718

[highplainsdem]

109. I don't believe she'll get the nomination, and if she did, I believe she'd be a much weaker

nominee than Biden would.

I remember seeing a lot of DU posts and tweets and articles last month saying that even though Warren and Sanders hadn't been on the same stage as Biden for the July 30-31 debates, they'd somehow won both nights -- and Warren had done better than Sanders. Their supporters believed their ideas and their debate performances were that impressive.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/06/poll-elizabeth-warren-wins-second-debate-1448607

But there's been almost no change in the polls since then. Warren got a bump of about 3 points and then lost 2 points of that, according to the RCP averages. She and Sanders are still divvying up a bloc of support that's roughly equal to Biden's support, and they've been doing that for months, though Warren has a larger part of that bloc she shares with Sanders now.

Debates just don't matter very much any more.

[ReformedGOPer]

108. Same with me. I'm a late 50ish, college educated white suburban woman. Kamela Harris intrigued me at

the Kavenaugh hearing. She was an articulate, well-educated woman who asked tough but thoughtful questions. I was excited about her campaign. I really thought I'd be voting for her.

Then came that awful debate. The question seemed so staged, like she had it ready to insert it at any moment that it might fit into. And for crying out loud, this occurred 30+ years ago. People evolve, grow, change. It turned my stomach each and every time I saw it replayed.

I'm supporting Warren; I don't see myself ever supporting Harris again.

[Cha]

112. Kick for Mary "you're my man" Means!