Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forum'I love Bernie, but': Sanders struggling to persuade voters he's electable
(The Politico article was written by this DU poster's daughter)
[link:https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/sanders-voters-electable-2020-1489146|
By HOLLY OTTERBEIN 09/11/2019 02:02 PM EDT
MANCHESTER, N.H. Virtually every poll since 2016 has shown Bernie Sanders would beat Donald Trump.
But Sanders aides know that some Democrats dont buy it: Doubters just cant picture the people of, say, rural Pennsylvania putting a 78-year-old democratic socialist in the White House. It strains their very idea of America itself.
We still have to work to do, Faiz Shakir, Sanders campaign manager, told POLITICO. Amongst the Democratic primary electorate, in some pockets, theres fear of how hes going to campaign on Medicare for All: Are people going to get nervous and run away from it?
Sanders aides have long believed that persuading voters he can oust Trump is key to winning the primary. Its been a central part of their strategy since the earliest days of their 2020 campaign, and theyve crafted a campaign tour, speeches and digital P.R. push aimed at winning the argument. But after months of work, theyre still running up against voters who support Sanders bid but just cant see it happening, no matter what the poll numbers say.
snip
(more at link)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
thesquanderer
(11,954 posts)Yup, Sanders has a way to go in persuading LOTS of folks on DU that he's electable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)BS is not a real member of the Democratic Party. Somehow way too many folks do not get it. BTW Biden is our best choice regarding who can win the Electoral College. I wish folks would get that too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to JoeOtterbein (Original post)
Autumn This message was self-deleted by its author.
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)...without "the media" or "some Democrats" telling me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to brooklynite (Reply #4)
Autumn This message was self-deleted by its author.
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)I respectfully disagree. Biden has an awesome coalition. His support runs deep. He can win the Electoral College. Biden running with a strong, progressive, Dem woman would be a formidable ticket. I want to win. It's a numbers game.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Link to tweet
This is the grouchy-white-guy-in-the-diner problem all over again. Reporters are blinded by their own age, background, education and geography. Instead of going to West Virginia diners to find the Trump voter, reporters should go talk to the residents of The Villages in Florida, the African American churchgoing ladies and the buttoned-down professionals in the affluent suburbs (the Romney-Clinton voters). These people have endured a noisy, offensive and intrusive presence in the White House. They dont necessarily want a different noisy, intrusive presence even one they agree with on substance.
Part of the mystery of Bidens appeal would be solved if the moderators flipped their questions, as one smart Democrat not in the Biden camp put it. Instead of asking Biden or another moderate, Why arent you going with the big, bold idea of Medicare-for-all?, the moderators might consider asking Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) or Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Why blow up Obamacare, and why dont you trust people to choose Medicare if given the option? Instead of assuming that extreme proposals are the standard, requiring the moderates to explain why they are such wet blankets, the moderators should press the super-progressives on questions such as: What makes you think that voters want to go through another health-care makeover? Why should poorer people pay for richer peoples health care or subsidize their college debt?
Better yet, ask the candidates to relate the personal story from a voter who moved them the most, or the last voter whose phone number they took so that the candidate could call later, or the most insightful thing they have heard from a voter. It might reveal who is talking at voters and who is listening to them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Bernie surpasses VP Biden in NEW New Hampshire poll.
Bernie - 29%
VP Biden - 21%
Sen. Warren -17%https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/09/11/bernie-sanders-jumps-to-lead-in-nh-franklin-pierce-herald-poll-shows/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)welcome trump to a second term. The county is not that far left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Argument by Dismissal: An argument is rejected without saying why. The person who is rejecting the argument may have a good reason; they just refuse to share it. So we cannot assume that this is an error in reasoning. It could better be described as a conscious choice not to participate in the argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And a little too smart for this...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
I was pointing out that the fish aren't biting...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)But nationwide, he has to appeal to a much, much more diverse group, and not just Democrats.
And he's never been subjected fully to the GOP smear machine. That would change should he ever win the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Argument by Dismissal: An argument is rejected without saying why. The person who is rejecting the argument may have a good reason; they just refuse to share it. So we cannot assume that this is an error in reasoning. It could better be described as a conscious choice not to participate in the argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)At the moment BS's writings and past videos are not known the the people because he has never been vetted and no major outlet has shows his writings to the people. Democrats have also handled him with kid gloves and not gone "there"
However, Trump and the republicans are already chomping at the bit to bury BS in that reality of his writings and his videos.
Trump gets a pass on his issues with women because he had never been in public office before and Trump's foibles are baked in.
BS's data will be new to most of the electorate and it will be shocking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to BlueMississippi (Reply #12)
Autumn This message was self-deleted by its author.
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)It makes him look authentic and unrehearsed. His so called "gaffes" are only touted by BS campaign. No one else cares.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to BlueMississippi (Reply #16)
Post removed
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)DO NOT compare Biden with Trump -- that is not fair at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to BlueMississippi (Reply #20)
Post removed
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)I focus on who can win the Electoral College which means state by state.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(295,901 posts)of what the treasonous assholes working for trump will or will not do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zentrum
(9,865 posts)...electable.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Can you name one single right wing source or leadership that that claims such?
Ive seen the justice department indictment that show that Russia was as behind Bernie as they were for the Cheetolini.
Ive seen many on our side question his electability. Gotta say, Im in those numbers.
Do cite an example of the right wing touting this please, because I sure have never seen this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)the right. Bernie is a Socialist, he cant win. Please, Give me a break.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)Bernie Sanders IS a Socialist. Because he says he is...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)In the English language, the modifier of a noun comes first. Hence "Democratic Socialist" is a modified form of...."Socialist". As opposed to, say, a "Social Democrat"
FWIW - Sanders gave his speech on Democratic Socialism about six months ago; how many people did he convince?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,342 posts)With and without the "democratic" modifier.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/
While it's somewhat of a misnomer (he's not a socialist in the European sense, so I'm not really sure why he has referred to himself as one), the fact that he has done so for decades is not in question.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)support his policies, so I guess that makes me and a lot of other Democrats soialists too. Oh No!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,119 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Just one?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Let me see if I can put this in a way that you might be able to comprehend:
If I make an absurd claim, such as yours above and say: You argue just like Donald Trump.
Once I make it, its either accepted by you, or its my job to back it up with evidence that Donald Trump makes ridiculous arguments, then refuses to back them up as you do. Its not my homework to back up my claim until after you challenge the validity of it (like I challenged yours above).
Now, say you make that challenge and say hey, i most certainly do not argue just like Donald Trump!. NOW, its my task to either back up what I claimed, or accept that Im incorrect and said something stupid.
Soooo, as an example, I could cite Cheetos recent use of the sharpie on the map to mark the hurricane that was never headed to Alabama as his evidence that it was going to hit Alabama. Then, I could back up my claim that you argue just like Donald Trump with evidence that both of you make a wild, unsubstantiated claim, then refuse to produce any sort of viable evidence to back said statement up.
So, in short you feel free to not do your homework and back up your ridiculous claim,
OR
Ill just continue on considering your claim with no offer of evidence to be the bull that it is. Unless of course, youre willing to do YOUR homework and give even a single instance of this large amount of evidence you purport.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Nothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Its okay if you have nothing at all. You was wrong. You can produce nothing at all to back up your claim. And you want to rehash whats already been answered to you.
so.. in your own words.. LOL.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)trump would love to see sanders as the nominee. I have seen some of the oppo on sanders and trump would have fun.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)I'm a proud member of the Democratic Party (Precinct Delegate too). Your guy is not a true member of the Democratic Party. That means a lot to folks like me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Poster couldnt even cite a single source when asked to back up that claim.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"Leaked" from "Trump donors at an event"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-2020-president-privately-tells-confidants-that-socialism-wont-be-so-easy-to-beat
Then there's convicted ex Republican Rep. Bob Ney:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287268885
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)now, do I think he's electable as in he has a shot at beating Trump? Yes.
do I think he needs to do a MUCH better job at PERSUADING folks who aren't already on-board? YES.
Bernie's biggest flaw is that he so believes in what he's doing, that he seems almost annoyed at the idea that he has to explain and persuade why it's right. It's plainly obvious and self-evident to him and those who are with him, that the very idea of explaining and persuading is almost unnecessary.
And it's why he can't build up much past 20% in this round.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
roody
(10,849 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)reasearch best practices.
I mean if someone was to say, "Everyone I know supports Bernie" that would be anecdotal, but not representative of a random sample.
This is a more robust sample:
https://www.wbur.org/npr/759574033/poll-democrats-most-like-warren-but-voters-overall-are-lukewarm-on-democrats-tru
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)so ... the issue of electability is moot
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,072 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(91,947 posts)of Politico's style of reporting
I feel pretty sure his objective is to convince voters on where he stands on the issues, not on the vague, nebulous term of electability
What the hell does that mean anyway. It is a subjective term
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMississippi
(776 posts)BS's plans and policies are well known to the electorate. They will not be further persuaded to vote for him.
He only has his core group of devoted supporters and will not be able to expand beyond that. Anyone not in that core group is already being peeled off by other candidates, particularly Sen. Warren.
BS started out with high 20s in the polls and now he is nursing lower teens .. he will fall to single digits soon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)neighbors, and he always has thought that. That's quite an insult, but to me repetitive insults and contempt for what I'm proud of are actually the least of it for a man running for any position of responsibility.
Fact is, if Sanders were our neighbor, we'd smile and wave a courteous hello when we saw him, enjoy trading anecdotes about him with others, and that'd be it.
And that IS it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
33taw
(2,420 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,206 posts)You can then count on trump winning a second term. No way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
33taw
(2,420 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yuiyoshida
(41,759 posts)I wish her numbers would go up ..it has to be things she is not doing...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)This is from the article cited in the OP
Biden, meanwhile, remains ahead of both Warren and Sanders in perceived electability in numerous polls.
Sanders is facing a challenge for multiple reasons, Democratic operatives said: He is seen by some voters as simply too liberal to beat Trump, more the leader of a robust movement than a commander-in-chief. Republicans would try to scare center-left suburban voters by painting him as a leftist radical, skeptics of the Vermont senator have said.
While Sanders leads Trump in both national and battleground state polling, Biden is further ahead which could be important to Democrats in an election in which they see no room for error. It's also possible Sanders isn't talking about electability the right way.
I do not believe that sanders is electable. There is a ton of oppo that will be used on sanders if he is the nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Hes trending the wrong way and his message is being delivered by a much better candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)hasn't gone after Bernie like they have other Democratic primary candidates. Quite the opposite.
I believe that they want Bernie to be the Democratic nominee - based on the Mueller report's findings, and the fact that GOP dark money superpacs ran ads with the purpose of helping Sanders - they were so effective that his supporters made them go viral.
He's never really been subject to the full smear treatment from the GOP. Yet.
Republicans pray for Bernie as Democratic nominee
I think that should Senator Sanders actually become the Democratic Nominee, they will then turn around and make him the target of their ads.
That would definitely change those polling numbers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(12,994 posts)the GOP's scare tactic to their base is to cry "SOCIALISM". They are not going to change any minds.
Bernie's overused message is like leftover food in the fridge from your last party - stale and needs to be thrown out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)Even Colbert got a few choice remarks in about that.
I don't think he did anything to arrest his steady slide in the polls. Yes, he managed to ding Joe Biden on the vote for the Iraq war, but we accepted Hillary Clinton on the same issue, so it's not a needle-mover.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomJulie
(98 posts)In 2020, I'm going with Biden as I really believe he's our best hope - unless Michelle Obama throws her hat in - to beat Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided