Biden's play the radio, play the record player moment. . . .

[pnwmom]

I still don't understand what he was getting at. Sending the social workers into homes to show poor parents how to raise their children? Because the parents don't know how to turn on the radio and the record player? So the children will hear millions of words?

It is true that research shows that, compared to poor children, middle class children are exposed to millions more words in conversations and in books. But none of the researchers are suggesting that the solution is to play the radio or listen to records instead.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. So much of what Joe said mystified me... that was but one example.

Not that Joe had a horrible night... by far his best debate performance, given the other two.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Tiggeroshii]

4. He confuses me. Hoping Warren or Bernie can get a solid lead in the near future!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

10. I think you're startin to see that & if Bernie & Elizabeth team up, as I've advocated for years...

look the f*ck out!! 100% sure that will happen... then it's game over and the Nazi-in-Chief is guaran-damn-teed to be thrown out of office on his can!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

15. LOL!! Too funny...you're "running shit"?! Yeah, right into the Bernie & Elizabeth "iceberg"!!

Those two would make a formidable team... shame on me for advocating for my preferred candidates.... guilty as charged!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Tiggeroshii]

23. I could see it.

They seem to be building a lot of comradery defending m4a and other issues together on the debate stage.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. It's a beautiful thing to watch!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[BlueIdaho]

28. Two white candidates in their 70s?

Sanders 78 and Warren 70. Somehow I don’t think that is a dream ticket in 2020.

[redstateblues]

32. Two white folks in their 70s from New England

We could win at least 3 or 4 states

[Tiggeroshii]

44. You're right. That would be crazyy.

Crazier than a dozen time bankrupt filing exorbitant racist reality tv start accused of raping dozens of women, who has fawned after his own daughter and bragged about sexually assaulting women? Yesm its crazier than electing somebody like that....


Good grief charlie brown

[redstateblues]

45. It won't happen. Could win the nomination and lose the General

[Tiggeroshii]

46. History tells us that is more likely with your candidate than with ours.

History tells us to go bold or go home.

[BlueIdaho]

47. But history does not tell us to go old and white or go home. nt.

[Tiggeroshii]

48. More or less it does

Unfirtunately.

[BlueIdaho]

58. You know...

I think you’re right...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. "Go bold or go home"...that would make a great bumper sticker! We need a bold progressive agenda...

not moderate incrementalism. Joe's "record player" vision of America - as much as I like vinyl - just won't cut it in a debate against the Dick-tator-an'-Thief.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. It's INSANE!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[elocs]

49. If you're wrong & Trump is reelected

I'm sure we won't be hearing a word from you about it, will we?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. The tRumpster Fire would have ZERO chance against the B&E combo, so, that won't be an issue.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Tiggeroshii]

70. That sounds like projection

[YOHABLO]

2. Play the radio and the ''record player''? Wow, that's so whacked.

Where do I begin to comment on that? Maybe if Joe listened to the radio he'd realize it's saturated with RW propaganda and hip hop, among other ''choice'' programs, some of which you wouldn't necessarily want your kids to repeat. Kids aren't listening to NPR Joe.

[Hortensis]

7. Radios have dials for selecting stations. After this, I'm not

100% sure he knows modern radio allows parents to program in children's stations, though.

Did he forget to mention educational TV? Or do experts feel getting children away from the mesmerizing boob tube is too critical to push that? Words flowing while children crawl around with blocks better?

I liked that he sees an important function for social workers. After nearly 40 years of conservative domination of government, social work is in the toilet as a career. Almost as despised as being a community organizer. Spending one's life helping people has been made so sabotaged and unrewarding that most people would far rather put in 50 years as accountants making column A come out equal to column B. Same for teaching. Who'd be a lousy teacher when he could be an IT supervisor?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. That was too funny... talk about living in the past!! I will say though, Joe did much better

in this debate compared to his first two performances. But, those comments by Joe were astonishing... a bit condescending if you ask me.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[aidbo]

3. A transcript.

Link to tweet

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. That was my take... seemed a bit condescending.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[cwydro]

63. More than a bit.

I agree.

[Skidmore]

5. Who's out of touch? Biden isn't.

He's not wrong. Many people still play vinyl. We stream media too. But we love vinyl. Record players are picking up in sales now.

https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/vinyl-sales-are-projected-to-beat-cd-sales-north-texas-record-shop-experts-explain-why-11752169

https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/Vinyl-The-format-that-refuses-to-die-14431053.php

[PoliticAverse]

6. "even with the fast growth of vinyl sales, they still only accounted for 4% of total revenue." n/t

[USALiberal]

8. Not really! Nt

[thesquanderer]

20. The people buying turntables (not "record players") do so for high end music systems,

and I don't think that's what Joe was suggesting for nighttime kid entertainment. The kids probably aren't even allowed in that room

[redstateblues]

29. Not true. I know lots of folks who have small record players

[Iliyah]

26. We still have a record player, 45s, albums . . . .

My father-in-law keeps them besides other things. We play the record player all the time. It's fun and he says it keep the younger generation informed.

He watched the debate last night and fully understood where VP Biden was coming from. AAs - the older ones do support him.

[pnwmom]

37. It's not about him being out of touch. I couldn't follow his answer

to a question about the legacy of slavery.

First the interviewer quoted an old quote of Biden's, and then she asked him what responsibility we have today.

“I don’t feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation, and I’ll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago.”

Davis said to Biden, “You said that some 40 years ago, but as you stand here tonight, what responsibility do you think that Americans need to take to repair the legacy of slavery in our country?”

And then he launched into a long reply that ended with something about radios and record players and millions of words.

He had some strong answers in the debate but this wasn't one of them.

[USALiberal]

54. No, as a percentage it is really low! It was a weird reference. nt

[karynnj]

59. I think Joe Biden needs to talk about education of children with Jill Biden or almost anyone

I think the advice is that parents need to talk to and read to their children. Interaction is important.

The problem is not that the media mentioned was not as current as it could be, the problem is that I doubt a single expert in child rearing as suggested that putting on the TV, radio etc is something that would best help a child learn. In fact, decades ago when I had little kids, there were many articles bemoaning that parents with busy lives left it to the TV to entertain their young kids. Even with kid appropriate TV it was better to watch it with the kids and to talk to them about it.

On the other hand, I have heard many Europeans speak of how movies helped them hone their English -- after learning the basics.
The problem is broad brush comments that people who are poor - implied POC , need guidance from outside their community in how to rear their children.

However, Biden - even saying things like this - is easily leading as the choice of African Americans. To me, this reflects that they KNOW that this is misspeaking and that he is not racist and they trust him. Had someone without that solid connection made the same statements, they would be in major trouble.

[jcgoldie]

9. What a mess

[UniteFightBack]

11. It's called not answering a bullshit gotcha question. nt

[jcgoldie]

14. "gotcha question"

Sounds like an excuse they made for Sara Palin when she answered with word salad nonsense.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Excellent observation... so obvious Joe was floundering on that question.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[BeyondGeography]

18. Yes, it was terribly unfair how they quoted him directly

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. Seriously!! It's outrageous!! Shouldn't the handlers be handling this?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[cwydro]

67. Boom.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Talking about the legacy of slavery is not a gotcha question.

Unless, of course, you don’t believe there is one — or that it’s worth talking about.

[Thekaspervote]

33. This!

[NYMinute]

21. This non-issue, no matter how much lipstick is put on it

will go the way of Lucy Flores, Anita Hill, Busing and Medals story.

People are smart and can ignore manufactured issues with fake outrage.

[Thekaspervote]

34. But they don't think so... since they keep trying

[customerserviceguy]

22. I like Joe, but this was a big stumble on multiple fronts

The most jarring was a reference to a piece of entertainment equipment that most people haven't primarily used since Joe Biden first got into Congress, but there were more buried mines in that field.

The "social workers" coming into the homes comment implied that people were not smart enough to raise their own kids, and will be weaponized by the reich-wingers who always crusade against "government indoctrination of our children".

There was also an implication that what is wrong with kids these days is mostly a lack of school psychiatrists. That ignores a lot of what is really hampering young people today.

And, someone has to address it, what about the words that kids hear in their homes? How many of them are in English, when there is a whole news/entertainment industry dedicated to keeping Spanish as the dominant language in Latino homes? When I lived in NY, I almost always saw Hispanic parents speaking Spanish to their children in public.

[womanofthehills]

40. The super fast talking also was a turn off

He wasn't calm and reassuring. Social workers will only go into houses if there is a big problem in the family. It makes no sense that he even mentioned social workers.

[Celerity]

24. The 'word gap' research is far from settled and is very dated

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/13/20864336/joe-biden-record-player-nurse-home-visit

snip

The “record player” comment in the debate was part of a slightly garbled version of that proposal, mashed-up with a reference to disputed research about the so-called “word gap.”

Biden:

Social workers help parents deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t want to help, they don’t know what to play the radio, make sure the television — excuse me, make sure you have the record player on at night, the — make sure that kids hear words, a kid coming from a very poor school — a very poor background will hear 4 million words fewer spoken by the time we get there.

This 4 million words factoid was widely circulated for years, but it’s not at all clear that it’s actually true. What does seem pretty clear is that the home visit programs Biden touted are effective in helping families and children and that expanding funding for them could be a good way to help disadvantaged kids.

snip

[wellst0nev0ter]

43. And apparently, that alone will solve racism

[RelativelyJones]

27. I love the fact that Biden stays resilient in the polls despite silly nitpicking like this.

[womanofthehills]

41. It's not silly nitpicking because it keeps happening over and over

It makes you wonder if he is computer literate. Little kids are so tuned in to their parents phones. (record players?) When my 8 yr old grandson comes over, first thing he wants is my iphone and he will even ask me if he can download stuff he wants to play.

[treestar]

65. Presidents don't have to deal with computer crap

There will be techs to deal with it - they get to be big picture day to day. Who cares?

[redstateblues]

30. More outrage from the Biden Bashers

You guys get all bent out of shape and most people couldn’t care less.

[Thekaspervote]

35. I think vinyl will be a big issue on the minds of voters!!

[still_one]

57. Let's not kid ourselves, this is about labeling Biden as a racist. Ironically, it ignores what

Biden was saying, and that is that environment and home life does mold someone growing up.

The answer is not so easy though, because it infringes on the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit.

Isn't this the argument for busing, to move children to a better learning environment?

This is also a rehash of the "reparation" issue. Is this what Democrats want to run on, because this is not a simple answer.

If a child brought up in a family which advocates the views of racism and bigotry, how will that child turn out?

It is not that far different than those who say, no one can tell me whether my kid can be vaccinated or not. While it can be argued legitimately, that this represents a public health hazard that affects the well-being of everyone, the environment a child is brought up in will also have an impact on society.

"No one tells me how I am going to raise my child"

At what point, if ever, should society intervene?

That is easy to determine if the child is provided with drugs or other concrete things that endanger that child, but that can't be done in cases with parents who don't involve themselves in what their children are doing, because it infringes on our freedoms.

That is why things like the school lunch programs, big brothers, head start, etc. are so important to try to address those deficiencies.

This is not the first time this issue has been brought up. This discussion has been going on for some time.

This is not simply a binary issue, it is far more complex, and involves individual rights, parents rights, and societies responsibilities, and I would argue those who want to simplify it to absolutisms, that if you go one way you are a racist, and if you go another way you are not, I believe are ignoring the complexities of the entire issue

[nolabear]

60. Excellent, thoughtful answer.

Joe delivered the message poorly, and the fact he was trying to cram so much into that answer bothered me. But in fact the intent, I believe, echoes research and just practical evidence that the legacy of slavery includes poverty, parents working so hard to deal with their own traumas that kids sometimes don’t get optimal exposure to things that will help them succeed and feel valued in the broader world, etc.

I’m a retired therapist. I believe in counseling families not to shame them but to find out from them how we can help them be happy and live good lives according to their, not my, desires. Making that available to people would be a great thing. Language skills actually are improved by listening to voices from radio when the family doesn’t talk to you a lot, not to mention it let’s you know there’s a world out there full of ideas. Music improves bonding between parents and kids, helps with emotional regulation, and myriad other things.

I don’t think I’m projecting. If you know the references he makes sense. But he needs to calm down. That sense of panic on the debate stage does trouble me. I don’t think it has an impact on his ability to govern but it isn’t great.

[still_one]

69. I agree, and appreciate the work you are doing. The question is a very difficult one especially in

a debate format, and you are right he needs to simplify the response to a very complicated issue

[honest.abe]

31. I think he simply got his answer a bit twisted.

Nothing nefarious or condescending or evil. We all do it from time to time.

[zackymilly]

36. Wait until Joe finds out about 8-track tapes! n/t

[ReformedGOPer]

39. I felt he was trying to invoke memories of a simpler time.

A time when we weren't cringing at every word tRump sputters.

[Quixote1818]

42. I generally don't have an issue with age but I am afraid Biden is close to Trump in

beginning a slowdown of his cognitive abilities.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Age is factor, but not the root cause of these missteps... Joe's been sayin stuff like this

for decades. To some it's endearing... I would agree, except not in a presidential candidate.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

66. Oh please!

Close to the Orange Moron? Please.

[Bettie]

55. I don't think that was an age thing

I think he just has a whole bunch of thoughts and they kind of jumble together.

I don't know how else to explain it, but it happens to me every so often, just so many things you mean to say and it all comes out incoherent, in bits and pieces, but in your head, it sounded very different.

[greymattermom]

56. Satellite radio

is still called radio. Bands still release new albums.

[cwydro]

61. That confused me too.

I’d bet there’s music in those homes where he thinks parents don’t know “how to help” their own kids.

But I don’t get how that adds to the word count. My parents played classical music (with no words lol). Perhaps the social workers/teachers that go into the homes to teach the parents how to raise their kids will suggest the right records to put on the record player?

I don’t get it.

[treestar]

62. That he did not answer the question is

completely ignored in favor of the record player reference! He was way off topic by the end!

[jcgoldie]

64. I didnt feel he was trying to avoid the question so much as...

...just spewing a stream of consciousness because he did not know how. In that regard it wasn't entirely unique among his replies although certainly the least coherent.

[jalan48]

68. Maybe Joe was nostalgic for the record playing days when we were able to work with the Republicans.