If we don't win in 2020, it may be the end of America as we know it

[louis c]

I don't care about the issues that separate the candidates in the Democratic Primary. You see, I have opinions and I think my positions on issues may be too far to the left of the average American. I'm not looking for a candidate who agrees with me on everything. I don't care what he or she may have said in the past. In fact, if it makes that candidate more palatable to the ill informed voters who makes up the persuadable 8% of the electorate, I'm OK with that. We need to win. We can always persuade on the issues after that, or elect someone else in 4 years. Beating Trump and his Republican enablers should be everybody's priority. You didn't need the perfect candidate to vote for in Germany in 1933. Otto Wels had a lot of flaws, but, as it turned out, the alternative in that election was worse. Much worse.

Donald Trump winning another election, making him a lame duck for another 4 years. Placing him in office with a Republican House and Senate. Handing state houses over to Trump Republicans in a census year. Giving Trump 2 more appointments to the Supreme Court. These combination of events will, most definitely, mark an end to our Republic as we know it. America will be unrecognizable to those of us who love what this country stands for; Decency, Tolerance, Competence, World Leadership, Freedom, Science and the list is really endless.

Please dedicate yourself to this goal. As another famous Italian-American once said; "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". That quote could have no more meaning than it does in this upcoming election at all levels.

Link to German Election of 1933:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1933_German_federal_election

[marylandblue]

1. The fact that the stakes are so high is helping cause the division

Last edited Tue Mar 19, 2019, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

We all want the candidate who can win. But who is that candidate? Biden with his experience? Sanders with his transformative agenda? Beto with his charisma? Or is one of the dark horse ready to come from nowhere and take it all?

We can't predict the future, so we are all on edge.

[Power 2 the People]

3. True. We all need to unify and not hold grudges once the nominee emerges.

[NurseJackie]

4. It will never happen.

We all need to unify and not hold grudges once the nominee emerges.

My expectations are very low. It will be a replay of before... without a doubt. I see it already.

[louis c]

5. I agree. But the difference will be that Joe Biden can take about 3% to 5% of Trump's votes away...

...and carry Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

[Power 2 the People]

7. You're probably right but I can always hope.

[MH1]

6. Who is the candidate? The one who can win enough electoral college votes.

There's probably more than one but IMO that requirement excludes several of them.

In some cases it's a damn shame. But in 2016 we were unable to sufficiently counter 30 years of right-wing preparation against Clinton (unfair but real); we'd better make sure this time we pick someone we don't have to move the moon and stars to actually elect. For example, does anyone think we will really win the electoral college with a gay candidate? It would be great if we did, IMO, assuming the candidate actually made a good president as well. (who here would have wanted Clarence Thomas as the first African American president?) But come on, we have to win states where he's going to be a very tough sell.

[marylandblue]

8. Yes, I think a gay candidate can win.

Whatever candidate we run will have their real or perceived flaws magnified 1000 times. If we ran Jesus Christ, he'd be dismissed as a socialist, soft on crime, not a real Christian, and too omniscient.

What matters is not the flaws themselves, but how the candidate responds to the attacks. Always having a snappy reply, effective use of twitter, and cultivating the media are going to be key.

[MH1]

9. In my example, it isn't a "flaw" of the candidate, it is a flaw of the voters.

It is unfortunate but we have to take those flaws into consideration.

We can disagree on which voter flaws or candidate flaws will matter.

I just happen to think that the gay candidate will automatically be a) dismissed as an option by many voters and b) will make the right-wing "evangelical" vote even more motivated and willing to overlook anything in the GOP candidate. I mean worse than even what Trump has shown us.

I wish we lived in a country with a more enlightened electorate in places it matters. But we don't, and we aren't going to increase enlightenment by a second term of Trumpism.

[marylandblue]

10. A "flaw" is anything voters percieve to be a flaw.

I didn't think a black man could win, especially not with a name like Barack Hussein Obama.

We have a number of well qualified women, I think they will have a tougher time than a white male, but not impossible. Right now I think Klobuchar could successfully fend off sexist attacks. I am not sure about the others.

There are polls now showing only Biden would easily win a head-to-head matchup against Trump. That goes along with what you are saying. But things may change in a few months, so we'll see.

[MH1]

12. Obama is exceptional, and racism is more stigmatized than being anti-gay

I say this based on my experience with family members who are in the "right wing evangelical" category. They won't admit to voting against a black man because he's black. Although I am sure most or all of them voted against Obama, when they talked to other people they had to cite other reasons.

But "the gay" is their second biggest issue after abortion. They have no problem telling people that they don't think a homosexual should be elevated to a leadership position, just based on being gay. They would be mortified to admit they voted for a gay person, just on that basis alone. And in talking with other people, they would beat on the issue of why in their opinion it would be so sinful to support a gay candidate.

** Of course I don't agree with these viewpoints!!! But I have been around them enough to have a strong opinion about how this plays out in elections.

[marylandblue]

15. Right wing evangelicals aren't voting for any Democrat.

But liberals and moderates might vote for a charismatic transformative candidate even if he's gay. And you are right that Obama was exceptional. But I think Buttigieg is exceptional also, which is why I think he has better odds than it might appear.

[Awsi Dooger]

11. A gay candidate can't win in 2020

Come on. All the feel good stuff is wonderful but reality is out there. Meaningful shifts are glacial not abrupt.

I would estimate we are at least 40 years away from that possibility. The current youngest generation would have to be toward the end of their lives and backed by even more tolerant offspring.

I don't mind taking the long estimate because far more often than not that's the true range. Adjusters go too low.

[MH1]

13. Exactly, I agree with you, and I think it is a shame.

I think it might be too soon for a woman candidate as well. And that also pisses me off!!

But reality is what it is, no matter how much it pisses us off.

[joshcryer]

2. Pax Americana is already dead.

The US Presidency will never recover from Trump's inadequacies.

[Mr Tibbs]

14. I think America as we know it is already over

The right wing has become completely bonkers. When I interact with them on twitter, they are "kill, kill, kill everybody!" for Trump. We now have Trump supporter terror attacks. His supporters are literally terrorists. I don't believe the GOP can exist after Trump. They have been exposed as a depraved, dangerous organization that cannot govern and has no control over itself.