Senator Bernie Sanders Appears to Be All In on the Our Revolution

[MineralMan]

thing for 2020. His recent hires add to that impression. I think he's taking the wrong track if he really wants to be the Democratic nominee.

For one thing, candidates endorsed by Our Revolution didn't do so well in the 2018 midterm elections. Instead Democrats who ran their own campaigns their own way in swing districts seem to have done better, by quite a bit.

It seems to me that the pendulum has swung in a different direction for Democrats. It looks very much to me like re-establishing some sense of stability following Trump's "reign" is the primary consideration for the majority of Democratic voters.

It seems to me that a lot of people who are still mourning Hillary Clinton's loss in the Electoral College are not that enamored of Bernie Sanders' approach to campaigning right now.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. Maybe Bernie's wrong in thinking that the same old thing he tried in 2016 is going to work better in 2020. I think he's wrong and that's because we've seen what Donald Trump has done to screw everything up.

I mean, Senator Sanders needs to run his campaign as he sees fit, but I think he's on the wrong track for the mood of Democratic voters right now. I don't think that's going to change before next year.

Think about it, Senator Sanders. Maybe reconsider your strategy.

[LuvLoogie]

1. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for about a minute.

He's a leftist, but definitely not a Democrat just 'cause he says so.

[DownriverDem]

38. Be careful

I totally agree with you, but I got in trouble for not being a Bernie supporter here before. Having said that I think Dems want someone that can win. Biden can do that. He will not ignore the batshit man in the WH. He will give it to trump whenever he says something crazy. Biden can win the blue collar voters. If Biden picks a woman (Harris or Abrams) to run with him, they would be a formidable team. We need to win and then move forward.

[Maru Kitteh]

45. He's been touring iterations of the same show since 1972.

And his dated parlance reflects it.

[mountain grammy]

92. Yeah

Universal health care, affordable housing, a living minimum wage, strong unions, affordable higher education, well funded public education, well funded public resources, etc. etc..

Dated? really? We've needed this show since 1972, since we're not making much progress. He's been consistantly for these policies and so have I.

[Maru Kitteh]

93. "My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt." - Bernie Sanders

“You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.” - Bernie Sanders

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’” - Bernie Sanders

Yeah.

[Maru Kitteh]

103. Jezuz. Amazing how many people cannot live without Hillary. You realize SHE'S NOT IN THIS PRIMARY

don't you?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

128. No, Hillary said "I'm not running," which meant she might run.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Maru Kitteh]

141. Oh dear.

That's just so desperate.

[Cha]

115. Yeah, good ol BS. Mahalo for those quotes, Maru..

My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt." - Bernie Sanders

“You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.” - Bernie Sanders

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’” - Bernie Sanders

Yet, here he is again running as the "dreaded Democrat".

[Honeycombe8]

148. Oh, wow. His position couldn't be clearer. He doesn't agree with the Dem Party at all.

When did he say those things?

[mountain grammy]

150. Don't agree with anyone about everything.

that's why I'm a Democrat.. but yes, he has been advocating for these policies for decades and the Democratic party has had to be dragged along, all the while rolling back some of the protections put into place by Democrats during the Depression, like repealing Glass Steagall.. that helped nobody but the big banks and they did a number on all of us... yeah, they did.

[Cha]

173. BS is too divisive.. and he sounds unsure

of his message. Or why would he be hiring 3rd party Divisive Attackers?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[bobGandolf]

171. NUMBER ONE - win 2020 general election

I don't give a damn who the candidate is if their number one goal is winning a primary with their ultra progressive agenda intact they are not putting country first.

[Cha]

113. Yeah, if BS is so great why does he hire people like this?

Link to tweet

Here she is again.. saying "trump is right"..

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

120. Good question.

One I'm asking too. She also said she voted for Jill Stein. What's that about?

[Cha]

174. Sanders' 3rd party hires couldn't be anymore Divisive

if they tried.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

That's what jill stein's Lies were all about.

[Historic NY]

176. Makes one wonder if Trump has them on the back channel payroll.

[Left-over]

78. I am a democrat! I will vote for their nominee even if it's bernie.

However we need new blood in the party. New ideas will bring in the younger voters if the more mature voters keep ourselves focused on the goal. Ridding ourselves of the menace in the white house and senate.

[dalton99a]

2. His new crew is a munitions factory for Republicans

How will this benefit ANY Democrat?

[MineralMan]

8. I think it's setting up for an oppositional sort of campaign.

It looks very much like the Sanders campaign is going to proceed by going on the attack against other Democrats who are running. I think that is a terrible idea - one that will backfire spectacularly. I worry that it will be divisive, which is the last thing we need with such a very large field of candidates.

Sirota, for example, wrote a number of attack articles about the Clintons in the last round. They didn't help anyone, but did manage to increase the divisions within the party.

Nina Turner has been another divisive voice, who ended up endorsing Jill Stein in 2016, throwing another monkey wrench into the general election works. What role will she play in Sanders' campaign in this round?

I find all of this to be very worrisome in an election cycle where unity will be so very important.

[True Blue American]

30. Nina Turner

Lost her seat in Ohio, and like Lieberman she will do anything to stay relevant. She does not speak for the party.

[MineralMan]

31. But she is now Co-Chair of Bernie Sanders' Campaign.

[True Blue American]

35. Nina was on the Bernie team last time

Until he lost, then she latched on to Stein. As I said she will latch on to anything. She has never impressed me. From my State.

[MineralMan]

40. That's why I consider her to be a poor choice as co-chair of his campaign.

I can't understand that choice, to be quite frank.

[True Blue American]

53. I never understood it the first time she joined his team.

This is her History.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Turner

[LuvLoogie]

58. When your objective is to wreck the party as opposed to winning the party

these are the people you would choose.

[dalton99a]

61. Precisely.

[George II]

95. And she openly spoke about voting for Jill Stein, as did his new National Press Secretary:

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

106. Thanks. I was not aware of that.

[R B Garr]

110. +2, Nina also fund raised with Bill Clinton for her Ohio seat, then

turned around and accused Hillary of all manner of corruption. She had no problem using the Clintons when she needed their help.

She voted third party and does not belong on this board.

[DownriverDem]

41. Exactly why

I would never support him. He's not a true member of the Democratic Party.

[LiberalLovinLug]

48. Get over it

Questions

"It looks very much like the Sanders campaign is going to proceed by going on the attack against other Democrats"

1. Where for one did you "look" and see this?

2. What is your definition of "going on the attack" in a primary? Is it strictly the personal variety? ie. Trumps primary behaviour and opinions on the attractiveness of the wives of his opponents. Or do you mean simply criticizing his opponents records and political stances? Which of course might include the implications that some D party policy, that a particular candidate clings to, also could be improved upon. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT PRIMARIES ARE FOR!

3. If, as it seems, you interpret "attack against other Democrats" merely as a candidate vocally raising issues that he or she is in disagreement with their opponents, then how will you feel if any other of them turns to a fellow card carrying D member and dares to question or criticize their opponents record? How will you handle that?

Why can't y'all just go by the motto "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything". Because that would really help our chances if infighting cannot be used against us. Sanders is not hurting the party. He is helping. So by marginalizing and ostracizing him, you are only cutting off a good many noses to spite your own face. Can you imagine if he publicly rejected the D party, threw in with his own party or the Greens? Oh, actually, it seems like some already "look" at him that way. But he doesn't. In fact he has probably even convinced a lot of folks on the fence to vote Democratic with the idea that if an Independent like Sanders think they are the best choice, then I'm in.

And if he wants to continue with Our Revolution good for him! That is his baby, and he takes ownership of it. If people don't like things like medicare for all, or free college, or criminal justice, or any other of the OR policies, they don't have to vote for him. The cards will fall where they do. If it looks like Sanders star will rise and he becomes the best hope to beat Trump then I will endorse him. If it becomes clear that Biden, or Harris, is our best hope, I will endorse either of them. But I am fully expecting "attacks" on political positions from all sides, and am even looking forward to hearing them all.

[MineralMan]

52. No, thanks. I won't "get over it."

This forum is here to discuss the Democratic primaries, so that's what I'm doing.

I don't expect people to agree with me, necessarily. However, I expect to keep posting as I see fit.

[LiberalLovinLug]

68. Fine don't get over it if you wish to stew longer

And I will always defend your right to say whatever you want. In fact I wish this site was even more open to diverse opinion we could debate. And perhaps the admin, in their wisdom, will allow us to express ourselves more, shall we say passionately, in this particular forum.

At least I hope, as the primaries heat up, you will give actual specific positions, reasons on ideology etc.. that you are opposed to about Sanders. Not merely starting OPs about... I heard someone somewhere say that it looks very much like some candidate we have been creating the narrative of him being an enemy of the party for years now, will NOT STOP ATTACKING OUR PARTY!! (The same party that he co-sponsors bills with, and that has gladly allowed him to run under their banner) Odd that a party under "attack" would actually freely hand out that temporary D to such a scoundrel.


I'd still like to know how you will be able to handle the rough and tumble moments when a traditional D candidate dares to "attack" another traditional D candidate's position. I hope you will be okay.

[MineralMan]

72. The first presidential campaign I was involved in was in 1960.

As a 15-year-old high school kid, I showed up at Democratic Party meetings and functions and made my self useful, doing things like setting up chairs, handing out papers, etc.

Since then, I've been involved in every subsequent Presidential election as an active Democrat, campaigner and sometimes convention delegate.

You needn't worry about me, really. I'm an old hand at this sort of thing. I'll be just fine, and then, in November, I'll be voting for the Democratic Nominee and working to get other Democrats to do the same.

[LiberalLovinLug]

86. That's great!

I also worked for my NDP party here in Canada. I view progressive advancement internationally under attack, and the scary rise of white nationalism worldwide. I view our struggle is international. We must help each other or it will be 10x more difficult to fight against it. Perhaps that is why I get puzzled by what I see as infighting between progressives in one country. Or perhaps I have a different interpretation of "infighting" as others. I will always look at a candidates record and positions above even a party letter. Whomever is the best most potent weapon against this rising bigotry. Maybe its easier for me to do that from here. I can understand that.

No hard feelings. You certainly contribute here a lot, so I'm sure you also give a lot in the 'real' world. Much appreciated.

[McKim]

89. Thanks for your post.

Thanks for your post. Just get over it your all and look at all the ideas presented to consider for our platform. Sanders has good ideas that’s why he is getting money and support. Every minute you spend bikering instead of talking in the super market line to likely voters about how their kids can afford college with a Democratic Party plan, you are feeing the Right Wing Monster!

[LiberalLovinLug]

94. You're welcome

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

136. So true! Bernie's "good ideas" are sweeping the nation & being adopted by his fellow Democrats

in the 2020 race.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cha]

119. You "get over it" we're going to discuss those

damn jill stein voters if we want.

[Demsrule86]

127. Won't vote for Sanders in a primary...in a general yes...but not a primary.

I would be shocked if he made it to the general. I would vote for any Democrat or independent running as a Democrat in the general to get rid of that stain named Trump who squats in the White House.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. You're SO right about Bernie...it's too bad some others here don't see this or simply don't want to

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

138. It isn't a question of "getting over it". When the Sanders campaign appointed Nina Turner and David

Sirota who not only encouraged people NOT to vote for the Democratic nominee in the 2016 GE, but they themselves didn't vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election in 2016, that is telling those that supported the Democratic nominee, that he doesn't want their support

Time will tell how that works out for him, but all indications are he isn't interested in unity. It is either his way or nothing. No compromise allowed

[Gothmog]

187. No one took sanders seriously in 2016 and so sanders was not vetted

No one took sanders seriously and so he was not vetted. Vetting is important I amso glad that sanders is being vetted this cycle https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/28/why-bernie-sanders-has-an-uphill-climb-ahead/?utm_term=.1b4f90c2a717

Finally, what happens when the oppo dump on Sanders comes? We have no idea, because it never happened in 2016. Clinton was so terrified of alienating his supporters and seeing them vote for Jill Stein in the general election (or not vote at all) that she tiptoed around him for pretty much the entirety of the primary campaign. That doesn’t mean that he’ll be destroyed when stories about the more colorful aspects of his history start cropping up, but there’s just no way to know.

Which is what we could say about the Sanders candidacy as a whole: There’s no way to know how it’s going to go. But he’s got his work cut out for him.

See also https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-2020-campaign-donald-trump/index.html?utm_source=twCNNp&utm_content=2019-02-20T14%3A52%3A07&utm_term=image&utm_medium=social%C2%A0

2. How will he withstand more scrutiny and more attacks?
One of the secrets to Sanders' success in 2016 was that no one -- most especially Clinton -- thought he had any chance of going anywhere in the race. Clinton largely ignored him for the better part of 2015, allowing some problematic parts of Sanders' record for Democrats -- most notably his voting record on guns -- to go unnoticed. (When the race began to tighten, Clinton gently prodded Sanders on guns and health care.) Sanders, too, largely flew under the radar of investigative reporters for major news outlets who were busy looking into Clinton, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio and others seen as more viable candidates. (That reality clearly benefited Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, as well.)

Sanders will get no pass -- from either the media or his fellow candidates -- this time around. He is among the frontrunners -- and will be treated as such. His wife's time as president of Burlington College could well come up. And his opponents will do a deep dive into his nearly 30 years of votes as a member of the House and Senate. This is all very normal stuff in a campaign. But not for Sanders.

The CNN polling reflects the fact that sanders is being vetted

[krkaufman]

97. "On the attack"

“It looks very much like the Sanders campaign is going to proceed by going on the attack against other Democrats who are running.”

Ironic statement given the thread is an attack on Sanders.

[MineralMan]

101. But, you see, I'm not running for President,

or any other office.

[thesquanderer]

100. You speak as if his #1 goal is to win the nomination. I don't think that's the case.

You advice about what he should or shouldn't do seems to be based on a perceived voter population shift... i.e. four years ago the voters wanted an anti-establishment outsider (which is why both he and Trump exceeded expectations), but that now having gotten Trump, voters will yearn for a return to the more traditional, and so Sanders should alter his campaign accordingly. That premise about what the voters want may or may not be true, but even if it is, I think Sanders won't alter his message or approach. I think he's not so interested in strategizing how best to win the nomination, because his primary goal is not winning the nomination, rather his primary goal is to get out there and be basically the same political entity he has been for 40 years... and if that gets him the nomination (and he believe it very well might), great... and if the voters prefer some other candidate, well, that's their choice. There may be some tweaking around the edges, but I expect we'll see mostly the same Bernie we saw 4 years ago (and before). And really, that's part of his appeal to many people... that he seems genuine, and--whether you always agree with him or not--that he appears more interested in putting forth what he believes than in tailoring his message based on focus groups. If he wins the nomination, it will be on his own terms. And to those who think that's a mistake and it will cost him the nomination, well, odds are you prefer someone other than Bernie anyway, so it's really a win-win.

[MineralMan]

104. Oh, that is his #1 goal.

Nobody runs for President without that goal in mind.

[thesquanderer]

114. re: "Nobody runs for President without that goal in mind."

In mind, sure. But I think plenty run without that being their #1 goal. They can run because they are trying to build popular support for certain viewpoints, even if they don't think they have much of a realistic chance of winning. I think Andrew Yang might be in that category this year for example... and I think Sanders was in that category at the start 4 years ago, and was surprised himself at how close he got. Other people campaign, not expecting to win, but because they want to position themselves for the future, though at Bernie's age, I'll grant you, that's not likely to be his motivation.

I'm not saying he doesn't want the nomination. I'm suggesting his #1 goal is to promote the same stuff he always promotes, on the biggest stage. If it gets him the nomination, perfect. But he's not going to change his stripes to get the nomination, because to him, I think the nomination is less important than the platform. Some candidates want to be president -- he wants to change the world. This distinction is what won so many people over 4 years ago. Maybe you're right, that that's not as strong a selling point this cycle, but it's still what his selling point is, and either people will buy it or they won't. And if he became more of a pragmatist, he wouldn't be him (and he'd lose a bunch of he support he already does have). It may or may not be the right year to be saying "we have to change the system from the ground up" -- but think that's who he is, that's what he's got, and that's the hand he's going to play.

Oh, and to your other point... Primaries are always somewhat divisive, but I'd say let's wait and see something before accusing any candidates of planning a particularly negative or destructive campaign. And I think 2016 was actually pretty tame, compared to most primary campaigns.

[MineralMan]

124. What about hiring Jill Stein voters?

There's also my point. He's on the wrong path for a Democratic candidate. Maybe he's not that. If so, he should say so, I think. We won't be fooled again, I guarantee. We're not stupid, really.

[thesquanderer]

145. I'd say, let's see what they say and do in 2019.

I have a friend who voted for Jill Stein. It happens.

Though I admit I wasn't thrilled with some of his staff last time, or this time. I do have issues with Sanders. The thing is, I have issues with every candidate!

[True Blue American]

112. My nimber one goal

Is for Democrats to win the election.

Trump tactics do not sit well with me.

Been there dome that. Seen it all before

[McKim]

83. I Am Supporting Senator Sanders to Keep His Ideas in the Conversation

Sounds like an opportunity here for another round of “Let’s have Democrats fight among themselves” to me.

I am supporting Senator Sanders because I want his ideas to be a big part of the conversation about our platform. He is a great idea factory. I am also supporting Warren for the same reasons. Let’s stop dissing them and give their ideas some support. I will vote for whoever wins the nomination for sure.

[LiberalLovinLug]

87. +1000

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. +1,000,000!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[MH1]

147. It's not intended to benefit any Democrat.

That is becoming more clear each day.

[R B Garr]

3. I totally agree with everything. People are tired of these

shenanigans of fighting fellow Democrats. I truly think it will be and already is more revealing of his character than anything he will smear others with.

[MineralMan]

6. Well, I think he believes that he has a core group of supporters that

is his base, and is catering to that group heavily. However, there are so many interesting primary candidates on the Democratic side that many people who supported him in 2016 may be finding others they like better this year. But, based on what he has done just this week, it looks like he's doubling down on keeping that base happy, and not paying a lot of attention to the rest of the electorate.

I think he's making a mistake, actually. I don't think Nina Turner is an asset for him, nor is David Sirota. The Intercept has lost a lot of its attraction, as well, so hiring someone from there to handle his media contacts also looks a little off, really.

I'm not sure what he thinks, of course, but that's how it looks to me.

[R B Garr]

9. Yes, his moves are asolutely a mistake. It does look like he's

doubling down on his war on Democrats instead of being more expansive and diplomatic. Hence the big glimpse into the character of the man.

Agreed, he has thoroughly misjudged where the electorate is. People see how much was sacrificed in 2016.

[MineralMan]

10. Well, it's his decision, of course.

I don't think becoming a source of division, though, is going to be a winning strategy for him. Not at all. In such a crowded field of talented candidates, he could find himself dropping quickly in popularity. I don't know if he realizes that, though. If not, he will soon enough, I'm sure.

[True Blue American]

32. Democrats are

Concentrating on bringing together, not tearing apart.

[samnsara]

4. what is our revolution?

[MineralMan]

7. It's an organization Bernie Sanders started.

https://ourrevolution.com/

It has been talked about at great length here on DU. You can use the DU search tool at the top of the page to look for threads about it.

[SidDithers]

18. It's Bernie's dark money PAC...nt

Sid

[R B Garr]

111. LOL, exactly! That's exactly what it is.

Very well done, sir, and so true. They are not fooling anyone.

[stonecutter357]

5. K&R

[melman]

11. Excellent hires

And a good sign that he is on that right track. A very good sign indeed.

[MineralMan]

12. OK, then.

Real good, then...

[melman]

15. Yeah

Maybe it would be better for a candidate to take the fake 'advice' offered by people that hate them don't want them to succeed.

Maybe that is the real winning strategy.

[MineralMan]

16. You have it all wrong.

But, oh well. I post my opinion here. Anyone can agree or disagree. Doesn't bother me one bit.

[melman]

17. Posting history

It's a thing.

[MineralMan]

19. LOL!

I doubt you have read that many of my posts, really. Selective posting history rarely shows much.

In any case, please feel free to link to any posts of mine on DU, if you wish. There are many of them from which to choose.

[revmclaren]

105. ...

melman
17. Posting history
It's a thing.

It certainly is.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[George II]

132. Speaking of which, how about posting all those death threats you've been talking about:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=28596

That's a "posting history" we'd ALL like to see.

[Cha]

62. Yes, BS has such great

hiring instincts.

Link to tweet

[melman]

96. Yes he does

Glad you agree.

[Cha]

122. You saw the "sarcasm" and you're claiming

I "agree". What kind of BULLoney are you pushing, melman.

[Demsrule86]

144. I fail to understand why hiring a Jill Stein supporter is a good sign or that it means Sen.

Sanders is on the right track...It is a giant red flag to me. I despise Nina Turner.

[lunamagica]

13. K&R for visibility

[MineralMan]

14. Thanks for the kick!

[Amimnoch]

20. this is the way to go after 45..

Well.. here goes another primary season of helping orange pissolini possibly get another 4 years in.

I know.. let's see how much damage we can do to ourselves before the general election season even starts! yeah! that's a winning strategy.

[louis c]

21. I have belonged to the Democratic Party for 45 years...

...Being a Democrat means something to me.

There are two types of Democrats in my book. Democrats of Conviction and Democrats of Convenience. I'm afraid BS is in the latter category.

[Hortensis]

22. Agree completely. But not that he can or would be

willing to be the stabilizing builder the electorate actually want now. That's never been him.

The midterms showed people do want to regain stability and return to the proven course of principled, cooperative, progressive government. Extremism and unwillingness to work together to achieve are being rejected.

Polls show they also want bold, strong actions taken at the same time. So unfortunate that more people didn't realize Democrats were running on just that in 2016. Sanders is squarely in the blame column for that, of course, and there's a big lesson in that.

Sanders is trying to run closer toward center this time, pretending to align with some stable elements, and in that way is doing some of what you advise. At the same time, as we see, he's also doing what he needs to to hold onto his farther-left radicals. As expected.

But, critically, Sanders is still running as a populist leader trying to create a following of resentful, antagonistic people from both left and right, including from the middle. He sees joining the disaffected left with disaffected trumpsters as his path to power.

And populism by its very nature is antithetical to stability. It's purpose and promise are to destabilize and destroy what already exists in order to replace with something different. He has no more intention of providing stability than many of his populist followers didn't hope the devastating losses of 2016 would somehow destroy the Democratic Party and clear a path to power for them.

So, as always, listen and watch. And when actions belie the rhetoric, believe the actions.

[MineralMan]

24. Well, 2019 and 2020 are very different

from 2016. There are almost no similarities, really. For that we have Donwald J. Trump to thank.

As I look at the long and growing list of Democrats vying for the nomination, it's clear that almost all of them recognize the sea change that has taken place. Almost all.

I believe that will become more and more evident over time. The strategies of 2016 are not going to work well at all this time. In fact, we have so many excellent candidates on that list that there's a place for just about every voter to stand. That's rare.

Probably we can see our eventual nominee as well as our VP nominee among the group that has already declared candidacy. I'm hopeful that almost all will campaign in a way that makes them eligible for either nomination. Any that do not, I believe, will fall by the wayside by the end of 2019.

That's my opinion, of course. It's worth nothing, really. It remains my opinion, however. I'm not one to be shy about stating opinions.

As always, in November of next year, I'll be lining up to vote for the Democratic nominee, as I have always done and will always do. In the meantime, I have no idea who that will be.

[Hortensis]

51. Again agree. Like you, I'm feeling good about our party

and our candidates so far. We have a number of good, even exciting ones, and it'll be a lot harder to claim ownership of positions and goals that so many share.

The battle for power rages far beyond the strivings of our candidates to become our Democratic Party nominee, though, and is enormous.

Our own right-wing kleptocratic, authoritarian nationalist, and theocratic elements are currently not just working together, most visibly through Trump and the Republican Party, but have a fair amount of overlap. The forms and extent that Russian and other foreign interventions could take are wild cards, but that the Sanders candidacies, due to their adversarial nature, continue to be among them is beyond doubt. But more voters should realize that now and hopefully be somewhat less affected. I'm more worried about interference with voting mechanisms and of things such as terrorist acts, which make people more conservative and supportive of whatever leader is in power.

[MineralMan]

57. I agree with you about the midterms.

For me, they signaled a new interest in elections, probably stimulated by the disaster that is Donald J. Trump.

I'm heartened by that, and hope that feeling continues. I think it will, and perhaps even grow, since there seems to be no sign of an end to Trump's moronic behavior.

I'm hoping for a dramatic change next year. Dramatic. I'm 73 years old, and 2020 could easily be my last presidential election year. So, I'm hoping that it creates a more promising environment for everyone's future.

I seem to upset some folks by posting my opinion here. That's a little puzzling. Opinions are what we're here for.

[Hortensis]

169. :) to that last. These are upset times.

I believe the existential problems to our democracy come above all from allowing the growth of something like 70,000 new centimillionaire and billionaire families, too many of whom see democracy as an impediment to their liberty and pursuit of happiness. It's happening in many other nations also, of course. Without their interference with our wellbeing, the anxiety leading to societal disturbance would be much less.

At that they've so far only managed to confuse and corrupt enough to keep stealing power from us and losing power to us, back and forth -- our rocking ship of state. Their own massive abuses are going to be their undoing, so greedy they're becoming literally an existential issue for everyone else. Tens of millions more jobs are on the verge of disappearing forever. To me the midterms signaled that, despite their great recent advances, they're now losing the race to depower us before we stop them.

As for you, true, , but I sorta suspect you are doomed or blessed to continue living in interesting times for some time. With the enormous growth of wealth from technological advances, we could be at the beginning of our greatest ever period of health and prosperity.

Itm, with you all the way in believing/hoping the midterms signaled an inflection point that's now revealing the path back to national wellbeing to many more of our 200,000,000 (!) registered voters.

[onit2day]

64. Totally disagree. Bernie does not "pretend". He's NOT so manipulating and

Populism is not so detrimental. Polls indicate what the American people claim they want and stand for so for candidates to stand for them too and get in front of the parade is what democracy is all about. Bernie educated the populace by bringing to the table the causes preventing Americans from getting what they want and should have. Pointing out the causes behind income inequality and poverty as well as massive student debt and healthcare costs. The Democratic platform changed as a result of Bernie and this "populism". We are FDR Democrats and FDR was a democratic socialists just like Bernie and AOC and E Warren and most of the democratic party according to all the polls. Trump and his remaining supporters are loudmouths we should not fear. In the same room with Pelosi he looks like a fool and will look that way next to all our candidates.

[Eric J in MN]

23. Which hire(s) are you against? NT

NT

[MineralMan]

25. Anyone connected with Glenn Greenwald's "The Intercept," for one.

Briahna Joy Gray, to be specific.

Anyone who attacked Hillary Clinton mercilessly, for another. David Sirota

Anyone who endorsed Jill Stein in 2016 or who has promised to endorse a Republican if necessary. Nina Turner.

Those hires. It's not so much that I'm against them as that I think they are very foolish hires.

I hope that answers your question.

[Eric J in MN]

157. I like the website The Intercept.

Nina Turner didn't endorse Jill Stein. Nina Turner spoke at a progressive event and then Jill Stein did next and there is video of them being friendly as the turn at the podium is traded, but no endorsement.

[MineralMan]

175. Do you? OK, then.

[George II]

118. Nina Turner (Stein voter), David Sirota (Stein voter), Briahna Gray (Stein voter), Cornell West....

....(Stein voter).

That's for starters.

[Power 2 the People]

26. Only time will tell.

[MineralMan]

27. That's always the case.

Meanwhile, I post my opinions.

[Power 2 the People]

28. And they are much appreciated.

[Raine1967]

29. I read he hired David Sirota and Briahna Joy Gray

Her twitter history is available, but this one bothers me deeply:

Link to tweet

Briahna Joy Gray
‏
Verified account @briebriejoy


@realDonaldTrump is right. The dems pushed the "Russia did the hacking" angle b/c it was politically advantageous for them. #debatenight

[MineralMan]

34. Yes. The Intercept, of which she was an editor,

was aligned with the Russians, via Glenn Greenwald. I had not seen her tweets before.

David Sirota served as an attack dog against the Clintons, and is already attacking Joe Biden this year.

[dalton99a]

46. +1. It should bother every Democrat

[Gothmog]

73. This lady is attacking Congressman John Lewis

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

117. Wow, such an immature and petty thing to say about

Lewis and cats. Such banality and low intelligence in that one.

[KitSileya]

181. Notice the time stamps on the tweets.

Not only is she attacking Rep. Lewis, that national treasure, just before the inauguration - at a time when those of us who aren't metaphorical pyromaniacs in a burn-it-all-down sense because we know that revolutions are violent and bloody and very seldom actually work for the weakest and most marginalized among us were frantic because Trump was becoming president in less than two weeks, and we knew what that meant for democracy - but she also went back a year in his twitter time line to find a tweet with which to attack him. It's speaks of a pettiness, a meanness that is very unattractive and vile. But if that is what Senator Sanders like, it tells me more about the Senator than I think his supporters are comfortable with.

[onit2day]

33. Another Bernie bashing thread. Bernie derangement syndrome. Funny how

AOC, E. Warren and most other candidates all support Bernie's ideology. One thing we can count on with Bernie is he is constant and steadfast in his stand for the American people. When he first promoted his bill for Medicare for all several years ago not one dem sen signed on as a co sponsor and now most of them have. His new book, "Where Do We Go From Here" tells just what we are up against. Our Revolution includes most of our candidates except those still hanging on to the past as if Republicans are still a party and not a cult. We are all Bernies now to some extent because of all he has brought into the conversation... Just like we are all Democratic Socialists to the extent we engage or partake of all our social programs from the military to the library. I would love to see a E, Warren/ B. Sanders ticket. That would give me faith that not only would our freedoms remain and expand but also our survival. BTW...has Biden officially thrown his hat into the ring yet?

[MineralMan]

37. Nope. I'm just questioning his decisions for this year's campaigning.

I think he's on the wrong track with his campaign, and think it will hurt his chances.

That's not bashing. That's advice, which, of course, he is welcome to ignore.

"We are all Bernies now..." That's simply not true. We are not. We never were all "Bernies."

[ProfessorPlum]

43. maybe, since he isn't your preferred candidate,

you aren't actually interested in giving him the best advice

[MineralMan]

49. Maybe you have no idea what I'm interested in.

Yeah, I like Biden. I think he's probably the candidate most likely to win. That's always my choice for a presidential nominee.

I like Bernie, too. I just think he's making mistakes that will keep him out of the running again.

[DownriverDem]

50. You miss where many

of us are coming from. We have great candidates running as true Dems.

[Tarc]

56. "AOC, E. Warren" are actual members of the party

who work to strengthen the party as a whole as they present their progressive aims

While some of his positions align with the Democratic Party's, Bernie is for Bernie at the end of the day. A solo man riding alone.

[Doitnow]

59. Amen. I just don't understand how Bernie can be so off the mark if he advocates what most Americans

want. Just go down the list. His heart is in it.

Plus, I listen to most of his speeches and I have yet to hear him bashing anyone except 45.

[George II]

116. Look at who he surrounds himself with.

[TexasTowelie]

63. "We are all Bernies now to some extent"

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out

I respect the opinions of each member here to support the candidate of their choice, but please don't take the liberty to think that you speak for me.

[George II]

98. So then, how do you feel about Sanders hiring three Democrat-bashers as his top advisers?

- Sirota has been a well-known Democrat basher for years.
- His new National Press Secretary, Briahna Joy Gray, proudly stated that she voted for Jill Stein.
- His co-chair, Nina Turner, also openly brags about voting for Jill Stein.

As for Our Revolution, many of their endorsed candidates were NOT "our candidates", they were candidates challenging (OUR) incumbent Democrats in primaries. Thankfully the majority of them were not successful - OUR candidates prevailed.

And please, do NOT call me a Democratic Socialist, that is insulting! We are NOT "all Democratic Socialists", probably very very few of us here are.

[Doitnow]

188. Well, your use of the word, Democrat as an adjective, certainly tells me who you are.

[George II]

189. Huh? Swing and a miss! I used a hyphenated word, Democrat-bashers. They bash Democrats....

It wasn't an adjective, it was a noun.

If I used "Democratic-bashers" it would imply that the bashers are Democrats, of which I'm not sure.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

139. THIS +1000! True, but sad that Bernie bashing has become so prevalent...

And you're right, Bernie really IS "constant and steadfast" in what he believes... he sure doesn't need to hire a political consultant for that!! It's little wonder that most of his fellow Democrats who are running in 2020 have adopted most of his progressive policy positions, as has the majority of the voting public... so, I guess "we ARE all Bernies" in a way, as you correctly point out.

BTW, LOVE the idea of a Sanders/Warren 2020 ticket, for obvious reasons...


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Turin_C3PO]

36. Agreed.

He’s made some terrible strategical errors. The most disappointing to me (a 2016 Sanders supporter) is him not releasing his tax returns.

[ProfessorPlum]

39. thanks for your concern

I guess we'll find out whose strategy is best when the votes start coming in.

[MineralMan]

44. Yes, we will. I'm not concerned, either.

The campaigns will be what they are, and will get sorted out by the primary voters, as always. The voters have the last word, and I'm just one voter.

Then, in November, 2020, I'll vote for the Democratic Nominee, as always. Right now, though, I'm offering my opinion on campaign strategy. That's what this forum is for, our opinions.

You don't share my opinion. OK.

[Kurt V.]

42. That's who he is. he's not role playing for our entertainment. smh

[MineralMan]

47. OK. Then, he'll take his shot at it.

[jalan48]

54. Whatever would DU do without Bernie? At least he gives us something to complain about.

[MineralMan]

66. He's running. He's a subject of discussion.

If he weren't running, we wouldn't be discussing him.

[jalan48]

67. Oh yes, definitely.

[Cha]

121. BS is the one who's running and hiring

jill LIES stein voters.

[jalan48]

143. Did you hear Donna Brazile, former Chairperson of the DNC, has gone to work for Fox News?

Think about it. A high ranking Democratic official is now working for the propaganda arm of the Republican Party. Pretty scary stuff!

[namahage]

152. OMGWTFBBQ

Next thing you know, a Democratic Presidential candidate will also be a contributor on Fox News!

Better keep an eye out on that former vice chair of the DNC, too! Obviously former high-ranked DNC officials are not to be trusted...

[Cha]

153. Donna Brazile has proven to be

all about Donna Brazile. Good place for her.

[jalan48]

154. But she was Chairperson of the DNC. Now she's working for Fox.

[Cha]

155. So? I know this.

[jalan48]

158. I'd be more worried about what was going on with the DNC than Jill Stein myself given Brazile's

current actions.

[Cha]

159. I'm sure you would.

This has Nada to do with the DNC.

jill fucking stein LIES helped the Russians get trump rigged in.

[jalan48]

160. Whatever floats your boat.

[Cha]

161. Oh definitely back at you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. True, but treatin Bernie like a punching bag doesn't serve any useful purpose;it only divides people

We need to unite as Democrats to give us the best chance of defeating the pee-resident.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[TexasTowelie]

55. K&R.

I believe that you have posted an accurate assessment of the situation. From what I've observed I see many more people abandoning Bernie than people joining his cause.

[MineralMan]

65. Here's the deal: I will talk about what I choose to talk about.

Right now, Joe Biden has not declared his candidacy, although I think he will. He's not making news today.

OTOH, Bernie Sanders did make news today, with some new hires for his campaign. So, I'm talking about that news, and offering my opinion about his choices.

This is an open forum. Nobody gets to dictate what DUers post about. Not you. Not me. Not anyone.

You can count on me to write about many different things in this forum. Today, in this thread, I'm writing about Bernie's choices of whom to hire.

Welcome to DU!

[George II]

70. You may want to rethink that last statement. From Our Revolution's OWN website:

https://ourrevolution.com/results/2018/

296 candidates endorsed: 82 won, 214 lost - 27% success rate.

[dalton99a]

79. It's 270% in revolutionary math

[still_one]

177. LOL

[LongtimeAZDem]

183. You forgot to multiply by how much birds like him

[LexVegas]

74. "Our Revolution candidates actually won more than they lost in 2018..."

[ehrnst]

76. The OP and thread is about Bernie Sanders.

And no, Our Revolution candidates did not win more than they lost in 2018.

What stats are you using? Can you link to them?

[George II]

91. I gave him the actual number which was taken from Our Revolution's OWN website, it's 27%

It's like deja vu all over again.

[TexasTowelie]

82. "Our Revolution candidates actually won more than they lost in 2018..."

I checked the endorsements page for 2018 candidates at Our Revolution.
https://ourrevolution.com/results/2018/

There were 108 candidates that won and over 200 candidates that lost. Some of the winning candidates were endorsed late in their campaigns when they were almost certain wins because they were incumbents or they were in districts that are overwhelmingly Democratic.

As far as letting things be, just last week one of Bernie's supporters posted a thread that was filled deceitful claims about Beto O'Rourke referring to his voting record when it was obvious that they were examining whether O'Rourke either sponsored or co-sponsored those bills. One of the bills wasn't even voted on until 2019 when Beto was already out of Congress. When DUers challenged the graphics presented with correct information and requested that the thread be deleted, the person that posted the thread refused to do so. That was just one of a few threads posted that day that was filled with lies.

It's difficult to let things be when we've seen Bernie supporters run smear campaigns against almost every other candidate. I'm not about to accept a lecture from someone with only a handful of posts and I doubt that the author of this OP will either.

[George II]

137. Here's Our Revolution's endorsement history:

2016 - 107 endorsed, 60 won - 56% (not a bad start)
2017 - 113 endorsed, 44 won - 38%
2018 - 296 endorsed, 82 won - 27%

Overall:

516 endorsed, 186 won - 36%

[Gothmog]

185. You are correct on these facts

Candidates endorsed by Our Revolution did poorly

[pnwmom]

85. Our Revolution failed to flip any House seats. So their wins in the House

just replaced other Democrats in already blue areas. That doesn't signify much.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/progressives-plan-victory-just-took-gut-punch-now-what-do-n933771

Progressives were hoping Tuesday's elections would finally give them definitive proof that Democrats can run and win on unapologetically liberal issues in swing districts and states.

That didn't happen.

Despite a good night for congressional Democrats overall, nearly all of national progressive groups' star candidates fell short in their contests in red or purple districts and states, potentially slowing the momentum the emboldened left had enjoyed since Hillary Clinton's loss two years ago.

"Progressives have to really do some hard thinking about the shape of the movement looking at 2020 and beyond," said progressive strategist Jonathan Tasini, adding that while the left had successes in some local races, they struggled in statewide contests.

[BlueFlorida]

69. Democrats should never impugn each other

in order to win. Sometimes party is more important than an individual.

We want a Democrat to win the white house because a Democrat is infinitely better than what we have now.

But then, a dead squirrel flattened by a big rig is better than what we have now.

[MineralMan]

75. Well, the debate during primaries can be pretty spirited.

However, it is a mistake, as you say, to go on the attack against other Democrats who might just be the eventual nominee or elected person. It's fine to disagree and put your own positions forward, even if it means saying that you don't like the other candidates' positions.

In the end, though, come November of election year, we all march down to the polls and vote for the Democrat on the ballot. We should never forget that in our zeal to get our favorite on the ballot. We don't always get what we want in that regard, so we shouldn't burn any bridges along the way.

It can be a fine line, though.

[BlueFlorida]

80. My golden rule is

tell how you are better ... not how the other person is worse.

Even in business, then never say the competitor's product will kill or harm you. They always say how their product is better.

Politics should not be any different.

[MineralMan]

109. Yes. Exactly.

[zipplewrath]

84. I agree

It would avoid much of the "spirited" debate around here, but apparently we are in the minority.

[pnwmom]

88. Who's impugning a Democrat? The OP named a figure

who has already registered for Senate 2024 as an Independent.

[Gothmog]

71. Opinion: The myth of ideology, and why Democrats' energy isn't all on the left

Link to tweet

The vast majority of Democratic primary voters then and now do not identify as democratic socialists. Perhaps Sanders capitalized on unaffiliated anti-establishment types and Democrats who preferred him despite his ideology and not because of it. Move forward to the 2020 contests. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) is providing the most substantive, interesting agenda that committed progressives could hope to see. Yet she is lagging in the polls. If this was all about progressive ideology and policy plans, she’d be running rings around the rest of the field.

As for Sanders, he benefits this time around from 100 percent name identification. However, the flip side of 100 percent name ID is that he’s no longer new, no longer saying things no one else will. He’s just as much of a democratic socialist as he was in 2016, but in the space of a few days we’ve seen that the “energy” isn’t all on the left; it’s drifting toward a centrist, young, optimistic candidate. Voters follow the energy and the ethos. They don’t carry around a thermometer gauging where on the scale of ideological purity each candidate rates.....

All you need to be is progressive enough to win a Democratic primary. Seeming more moderate than the Sanders clan is an advantage in the general election.

Why are pundits, the media and party insiders so convinced that ideological extremism equals energy/success? Part of it may be wishful thinking for progressives. However, part of the difficulty is linguistic. "Moderate” sounds to many ears to mean mild-mannered, prone to compromise and wishy-washy in beliefs. Nonsense. If ever there was a radical moderate, a fervent centrist Democrat, it’s O’Rourke. And gosh, he’s showing that can be exciting.

I doubt that sanders is going to be the nominee

[OKNancy]

77. Sirota hates Democrats

He has slandered the Clintons, Biden, Beto and many more. Gray is of the same thinking. She has even attacked John Lewis for being a Democrat! She's pretty much a twitter troll.

Link to tweet

Read the whole twitter thread above to see some of their tweets about disparaging Democrats

[NurseJackie]

102. Have you seen his "election eve" twitter smears on Hillary?

We're talking WAY past the primary and WAY past the convention... this fellow was STILL working to "kneecap" Hillary. The contest was over, and he was LITERALLY doing everything he could to HELP TRUMP to win.

I think that speaks very clearly about his moral compass and tells us a lot about him (and it's not at all flattering.) I think it's fair for anyone to question the judgement and motivation of anyone who would hire him for ANY job.

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

133. +1.

[MineralMan]

107. Nasty business, that...

[WheelWalker]

81. Marat/Sade

...these cells of the inner self are worse
than the deepest stone dungeon...
...and as long as they are locked...
...all your revolution remains
only a prison mutiny...
...to be put down
by corrupted fellow-prisoners.

[olegramps]

90. What are the difference between what Trump has done and what Sanders proposed on tariffs.

[still_one]

108. That is an excellent question, because when he was a regular guest on Thom Hartman, they both

for tarriffs very much in line what Trump has done.

Now they are conspicuously silent on those similarities

[MineralMan]

126. I don't have a good answer for that.

The Russian thing concerns me a great deal. I'm not sure what to think about that, given Jill Stein supporters being hired.

[Demsrule86]

123. Sen. Sanders is a no for me in the primary (vote for a yellow dog in the general)

I don't think he can win a general...and I despise our revolution and Nina Turner as well. He is running as a Democrat using folks who hate Democrats. Nina actually said that progressive like Sherrod Brown would have to get in line to win their approval all the while saying they would support green candidates and even Republicans.

[George II]

125. Looking at his latest hires and appointments, one wonders if he really wants to win or not.

[MineralMan]

129. It's decidedly weird.

It's not a secret, after all, who he hired and who they are, politically. It's weird, really.

[still_one]

135. By appointing David Sirota and Nina Turner, it is his way of telling Hillary supporters I don't want

your support

[LongtimeAZDem]

140. Again, it won't matter, but I have renewed my call to the DNC National Chair to disqualify him

[Politicub]

142. It's as if he's making moves to sow discord

The general election will be tough enough.

It doesn’t seem that Sanders cares about getting my progressive democratic vote. And if he does, he’s going about it in a strange way.

[Mr Tibbs]

146. Bernie is merely the catalyst

...of a brewing mass movement.

[redstatebluegirl]

151. I don't think is as mass as it appears.

[Cha]

167. Yeah, and it's Divisive...

which is what we don't need.

[redstatebluegirl]

182. No kidding!

[revmclaren]

156. 'A brewing mass movement' can mean many things.

Bird migrations...lava flows...Dysentery!

Not always a positive thing, especially with Bernie Sanders' (I-VT) new staff choices.

And with all the other Democratic choices, not too many people are jumping in the Ma(E)SS this time.



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Cha]

162. Nah.. we have our BLUEWAVE

Revolution that Actually Accomplished something. Like getting a Democratic House Victory.

[Mr Tibbs]

164. Mass movements come from the bottom up

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/climate-strikes-u-s-students-skipping-school-part-global-action-n983176

[Cha]

166. Yeah, if you didn't notice the Inclusive BLUEWAVE

was from the bottom up. All kinds of Dems from all over the country campaigned long and hard to get Dems voted in.

That's the Democratic Party, mr tibbs.

I don't care about BS' divisive "movement".

[mcar]

149. I'm concerned about these hires

especially given the Senator's pledge of civility. I do not want our candidates attacking each other.

[Cha]

163. Sanders flack David Sirota has scrubbed his Twitter feed, but his vicious right-wing attacks

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

165. And

[Cha]

168. A little bit fucking

difference between trump's tax returns and Hillary's speeches. Way to give cover to the Fascist. And, that's just today? What is he.. nuts?

NEWSFLASH, sirota.. Hillary's Not running!!

But, BS is Where are his tax returns?!


Mahalo, Dalton!

[Gothmog]

186. trump would love to run against sanders

[bobGandolf]

170. I agree with the OP. n/t

[betsuni]

172. It's the "This is fine" gif of the dog sitting in a burning room with a cup of coffee come to life.

[still_one]

178. 3-D Chess. Almost as brillant as choosing Simone Zimmerman as his Jewish Outreach Co-ordinator in

2016

Here was Sanders nydailynews interview in 2016, which was anything but impressive:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

[Blue_Tires]

179. The hits keep comin'... Bernie sure can pick 'em

Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2019, 01:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[MineralMan]

180. Wow! Vetting Campaign Staff Members Is Important

Google is easy to use. Candidates should use it better.

Some of Senator Sanders' current campaign staff hires don't look so good. David Sirota deleted some 20,000 tweets, but they're still around for people to find, and they are finding them. That Intercept editor has make many, many stupid statements, and they're showing up. The minute you hire someone on your campaign, people will begin looking at that person, using Google. Guaranteed. If there's embarrassing or divisive stuff to be found, it will be found and disseminated.

Bernie Sanders appears to be applying a loyalty screen to his potential hires, but isn't applying an idiocy or inflammatory screen. He should, or he'll risk losing some of the very voters he will need desperately down the road.

[dalton99a]

184. Could it be more obvious?

[Gothmog]

190. Deep dive into how Bernie Sanders' 2020 campaign is benefitting from political infrastructure

Link to tweet

Link to tweet