If Warren's Medicare for All does call for eliminating private insurance

[question everything]

and if she is the nominee and still holding this position we might as well be ready to lose.

Voters do not like things taken away from them. Remember the "shellacking" that Obama and us got after the 2010 elections? Sure, things have improved. Many got to accept the ACA - certainly for the ones who needed it. Even many who voted for Trump. But the initial gut reaction, illogical was: I don't want the government to touch my Medicare.

We have heard horror stories about employer provided health insurance. The premiums, the deductions, the arbitrary decisions by the insurance companies about treatments, etc. But most voters do like this system so why take it away? We don't like government taking our rights away. As someone wisely commented on these pages: The Bill of Rights is about prohibiting the government from taking our rights - free assembly, owning a gun, secure in the home, etc.

As far as I know, all the countries with universal health care system allows for private insurance.

She should admit that, yes, payroll taxed should be used to support it.

I have often compared it to public education:

We all support public education with our taxes, whether we have children there or not. And many are free to send their kids to private school.

Yes, there are still about ten months before the convention. But I am not hopeful.

[Eliot Rosewater]

1. My question I dont have an answer to yet is does her plan or Bernie's

require that the VAST majority of the money paid into the system to support this will come from

E M P L O Y E R S ???

You see, the VAST MAJORITY of the money now paid into the system are called premiums paid NOT by you or me but by


E M P L O Y E R S


So unless these plans have a TAX for employers that would be based on payroll to continue to pay in to support the system, it cant work without MASSIVE tax increases to us.

For the record I am for M4A, but I need to know EXACTLY how this part of it is handled before I can tell you if it will work, and I do know something about all this.

[marlakay]

3. I haven't read her plan

But did see that most money comes from employers and additional wealth tax and reversing the tax cuts for wealthy.

[DownriverDem]

16. Won't work

Folks will not give up their employee insurance. Please don't think they will.

[OnDoutside]

8. The problem is that by sticking to the removal of private healthcare

Warren had made herself unelectable. And it doesn't matter if her plan was the best plan ever, there is no way to get that past the American voters for the foreseeable future. The majority of the American electorate haven't a clue who represents their best interests, and can be depended upon to run away from anything M4A, even if it is the best thing for them.

[question everything]

9. Well said, thank you

[DownriverDem]

17. Center/Left Country

We need a Center/Left candidate.

[OnDoutside]

32. Had Harris not imploded, I thought she might be the one to straddle

the centre and the left. To misquote Dear Leader, her campaign has been low energy. Who else is left ?

[Progressive dog]

29. True and obvious

The Urban Institute calculated that under current law, healthcare spending will be $52 trillion over the next decade and $59 trillion under a plan like med4all. Warren's plan uses the $52 trillion number To make the plan cost only $52 trillion will require that doctor's and hospital's incomes drop while providing additional services. This is a cut in income for over 16% of our economy. So, it isn't just the tens of millions who would lose health coverage, it's millions who will be paid less. 16.9 million in just BLS (per Kaiser Foundation) monitored occupations.

Definitions

Health Care Employment includes the following subsectors in the National Industry-Specific Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates: Ambulatory Health Care Services, Hospitals, and Nursing and Residential Care Facilities.

[OnDoutside]

33. And that doesn't include a resurgence of a criminal GOP undermining

anything the Democrats put in place.

[crazytown]

2. Neither M4A nor the Public Option is going to pass Congress,

we are arguing about vapor.

[marlakay]

4. Yes vapor fears to try and scare

The masses not to vote for a very smart woman.

[question everything]

5. Sadly, logic does not work on voters

If this is what in the platform and, of course, the Rs will milk it as much as they can, we will lose. Not only the White House, but also the House. Most of the new members who won in 2018 are moderate.s Many flipped R seats. And we won on preserving the ACA. If all the voters hear are "we are going to take your insurance away" they will balk.

[crazytown]

6. "we will lose"

You don'y know that. You can speculate, but the future remains to be written.

[OnDoutside]

11. Yes we do know ! Where were you for the ACA debate and electoral

Aftermath ? There will even be Democratic voters who would vote against a candidate who says they plan to take away their private healthcare. It will become an ideology fight, and Warren will become the Jeremy Corbyn of US politics.

[crazytown]

12. "Warren will become the Jeremy Corbyn of US politics"

say no more

[OnDoutside]

13. I'm sorry to have to say that because I do like her.

[OnDoutside]

10. A repaired ACA with a public option would offer a more reasonable

path. Let people keep their private plan, but provide a plan for those who can't afford private healthcare and make it an excellent affordable standard, cheap for those of low income and free for those who still can't afford it.

[DownriverDem]

18. Then why

are folks pushing it.

[crazytown]

20. "why are folks pushing it" ?

Because the want it - just like some folks want a public option, or the end of the filibuster. Ain't going to happen.

[Progressive dog]

30. So, if a candidate supports a solution that can't possibly be law

we shouldn't judge the candidate for that solution.

[RainCaster]

7. It is my right to be mired in bureaucracy that denies me coverage

How can we argue against such a compelling statement?

[nbsmom]

21. EXACTLY.

Couldn’t agree more.

[LAS14]

14. When she first raised her hand to support the idea on the debate stage, I was appalled, but...

... over time, watching the idea get talked about in the press, I've become more used to it. I've come to afirm her no compromise call for the elimination of private insurance. I expect her to compromise when/if she gets to the presidency, because I agree with those who say congress will never go along. But the idea is being firmly planted, and the years of private insurance are numbered.

[dem4decades]

28. Did she also raise her hand to provide healthcare to illegal immigrants?

I can't remember who was on thre stage that night but if a Democratic candidate proposes to take away private heath care and provide free health care to aliens then forget about it. The Republicans will exploit that beyond belief. He'll win the same states.

[LAS14]

31. I don't remember. nt

[evertonfc]

15. unfortunately

as much as I love her, she will probably lose anyway. She simply can't expand the map.

[lettucebe]

19. They can take my expensive insurance away in a fat second

These arguments against removing private health insurance never consider the ridiculous cost of their policies. I'm paying over $1000 a month for premiums, and big deductible -- so without using said insurance I first must pay at least $6000 (if in the first month) to meet my deductible, THEN insurance starts to pay. I absolutely do not love this, and would love to see the middle-man health insurance industry disappear.

[question everything]

23. Fine for you. But why take away from the ones who want to keep their plans?

How dare Warren, and her supporters, and, eventually the Democratic party, tell me, and millions like me what we can and cannot have? We are supposed to be the party of choice, the party of inclusion, of diversity of ideas. And now, because Warren has to win, at all cost, because she, and her followers, think that they have a right to make decisions for us, we will lose.

[madville]

22. I wonder about small businesses

That currently aren’t required to provide health insurance. Are they going to see a M4A tax added to their payroll expenses? That’s millions of middle class business owners experiencing a tax raise.

[question everything]

24. Probably. From what I read, businesses will "switch" the premiums that they now pay

to support her plan.

[madville]

25. Are they exempt if they do not pay now?

That’s my question. A five person landscaping business may not pay anything now, an additional 10 or 15% of payroll will cause customer price increases. The consumer or customer ultimately pays for this, not the business or employer.

[question everything]

34. From a report in the WSJ

"Companies that already pay some employee health costs and have more than 50 employees would make an “Employer Medicare Contribution” to the government, a fee to be determined by prior health-care costs to insurance firms. Generally speaking, those who are self-employed would be exempt from this tax, which Ms. Warren promised would be less than companies currently pay in payments to insurers."

The conclusion, I think, is that companies that employ fewer than 50 people would be exempt.

[ritapria]

26. Warren is bungling the situation

As you noted , Payroll taxes will have to be increased …...Projecting cost savings on the basis of yet unpassed immigration reform legislation is "Voo-Doo Economics " ; christened in the Reagan Administration ….. MFA is great - but it ain't for free ..

[TexasTowelie]

27. The Democrats will be ridiculed for calling themselves the "pro-choice" party

if we force people to give up their private insurance. The one size fits all model will not go over well with most of the country.