This is one of only a handful of reasons why I support Biden over Warren

[beastie boy]

‘This is going to cause down-ballot damage’: Warren's $20 trillion health plan fails to quiet critics

snip

“This is going to cause down-ballot damage in swing districts and states if she’s the nominee,” Buentello says, describing how her Pueblo-area constituents — who voted overwhelmingly for Donald Trump in 2016 — were already echoing criticisms about a giant, one-size-fits-all big government run plan that cancels private health insurance and raises taxes.

The fear of blowback is indicative of the broad and largely negative response to Warren’s proposal from centrist, moderate and rural Democrats — many of whom, like Buentello, back Joe Biden in the primary. And it exposes the fault line between those who fret about winning voters in the center and the activist progressive base propelling Warren to the front of the Democratic pack.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/01/elizabeth-warren-health-plan-2020-064259

[crazytown]

1. 'Democrats in Disarray'

-Politico.

[DownriverDem]

14. How about

the fact that Biden can win the Electoral College which is state by state? We are a Center/Left country. We need a Center/Left candidate like Biden.

[tirebiter]

2. We wertr not in disarray in 2018

It’s like the California wildfires. It really does matter which way the wind blows.

[abqtommy]

3. What? Elizabeth Warren has CRITICS?!?!?! I don't see them presenting their plans for

effective healthcare. I already trust Elizabeth to do whatever benefits the most people.

[beastie boy]

6. Warren's plan can only be effective with effective legislation.

Effective legislation for Warren's plan is entirely dependent on the outcome of the next elections.

Democratic victory in the next election is entirely dependent on majority voter support.

Losing majority voter support makes Warren's plan as ineffective as Trump's plan to "repeal and replace" Obamacare.

[abqtommy]

13. The fundamental fact is that ANY effective plan needs effective legislative support. The coming

national election will certainly have many consequences and that's the truth!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I like Warren a lot, but I don't get why she (and Bernie, too) are proposing plans

that haven't a snowball's chance in Hell of getting through Congress. And because they are Senators and not clueless but well-meaning business people with no government experience, they know this. Even if the Dems were to take the Senate it wouldn't happen. Just getting ACA passed was a long, uphill battle and it's still being fought over. It makes no sense to me that candidates would promise something they know they can't deliver, even if people wanted it, which apparently a lot of them don't. I appreciate Warren's attitude of wanting to be bold and innovative, but if her plan is unpopular outside the progressive bubble she won't defeat Trump. I don't give a crap about anybody's health care plan; if Trump is re-elected we won't have the ACA and we won't have Medicare for All and we probably will end up with Medicare for Nobody. Defeating Trump should be the focus, not pie-in-the-sky programs that aren't going anywhere.

[Skya Rhen]

5. Brilliantly stated! As Senators, they know that this will never be passed. Disingenuous.

[True Blue American]

11. They need to fix and improve the ACA!

Fix the things that Republicans have broken and the things that should have been fixed years ago.

President Obama made the huge step, now we need another to fix.

[DownriverDem]

15. They

are doing it for votes.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. *Primary* votes.

[NBachers]

7. Just contributed again

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/joebiden1

[WheelWalker]

28. Blessings.

[Maven]

8. LOL, Politico.

Enough said.

[thesquanderer]

9. The $20 trillion figure is a red herring.

The idea behind her plan is that total spending on health care remains the same. What changes is how you allocate how much of it is paid for by whom.

Those trillions are going to be spent no matter what. The question is primarily one of whether the government will collect and disburse those funds vs. having most of them collected and disbursed by private insurance companies. The advantages of having the government do it include:

* the primary purpose/motivation being one of paying for health care, as opposed to the primary purpose/motivation being to be profitable for shareholders

* better ability to redirect the source of the funds so that more of it is paid for by those who can best afford it

* eliminating people's concerns about having to switch doctors and/or suddenly come up with additional money for premiums if they switch (or lose) their employment

* the ability to cover everyone vs. leaving some people out

* the ability to provide more complete coverage, where people don't have to worry about still being responsible for significant deductibles/copays or costs of uncovered (but still necessary) procedures like dental

Those last two are the things that can increase costs, which is why the "how to pay for it plan" also includes "how to reduce costs" -- and the fact that they're taking away the for-profit insurance layer is one of the factors there.

But $20 trillion is not "new spending" on health care -- it's CURRENT spending on health care, it's just a change to who is paying for it and how the money-in and money-out is being distributed.

[dansolo]

20. The $20 trillion figure is a LIE

Several studies have been done to estimate the increased costs to the government for M4A, which translates into the necessary increase in tax revenue to pay for it. Most of them estimate these costs at around $32 trillion, and even Bernie agreed with these numbers. Warren is claiming it will only cost $20 trillion because she can't come up with the revenue to cover the real costs, and wants to pretend that there is no need to increase taxes on the middle class to pay for it.

[Gothmog]

24. The total cost of MFA is over $32 trillion

[CousinIT]

10. I love the M4A idea but I don't think we can start with that.

We have to work up to it. Starting with a public option and strengthening the ACA, including a public option. Then go from there.

Nothing against Warren or her plan. Fact is, many in America and in Washington DC will not support M4A right out the gate.

To be clear, I'll vote for her or Biden if they're the nominee. No qualms about that. I like 'em both. Biden has been in the Senate and was around when ACA was done. He probably has a better sense of what's possible. And we have to do what's possible - even if what's best isn't what's possible.

EDIT to add: post previous to mine "the squanderer" makes GREAT points about M4A that I wish Warren and more candidates who support it would focus on. As I said, I'd support her and M4A wholeheartedly if she's the nominee.

Vote BLUE, no matter WHO. No excuses.

[True Blue American]

12. Agree!

[JudyM]

17. Just leaving this response here...

Link to tweet

DUer KelleyKramer

[CousinIT]

18. Hers is a great response. It's all about what we as a nation value and prioritize

Last edited Sat Nov 2, 2019, 06:16 PM - Edit history (1)

and who has the most influence ($$$) - unfortunately. We've got to get big money out of our politics, goddammit. Big insurance, Big oil, Big Pharma, etc.

Wendell Potter wrote an amazing book called "Deadly Spin" which detailed, for instance, how Big Insurance fought the ACA and how their influence got a public option Obama wanted in the ACA, removed. Here is an article he wrote about Warren's plan and how they're going to fight it, again: https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/11/01/how-health-insurance-industry-allies-are-going-lie-and-attack-elizabeth-warrens

Wendell Potter used to work for Aetna. He's a big insurance whistleblower. He knows of what he speaks when it comes to big money in our politics, specifically big insurance money.

The motherfuckers care more about their goddamned corprat profits than they care about health. What we have in America isn't "healthcare", it's "WEALTHcare".

[JudyM]

19. Great article. Fixing the link to point right to it, below.

Looks like they changed the link... https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/11/01/how-health-insurance-industry-allies-are-going-lie-and-attack-elizabeth-warrens

Good article, needs front page treatment nationally. Certainly here on DU as well.

We are really fighting an uphill battle with the big guns, and can win, but MSM is making the truth seem fuzzy, so we need folks who can cut through with it like AOC does.

[emulatorloo]

29. Ah yes, the author of "A Liberal Case for Donald Trump". Great clip but I don't know why Bragman

isn’t hiding in a cave in shame over this article:

A liberal case for Donald Trump: The lesser of two evils is not at all clear in 2016
Is there one? A Trump presidency needn't be a nightmare for the left. On many issues, Clinton presidency might be

WALKER BRAGMAN

APRIL 29, 2016 2:00PM (UTC)

https://www.salon.com/2016/04/29/a_liberal_case_for_donald_trump_the_lesser_of_two_evils_is_not_at_all_clear_in_2016/

[Cha]

21. Excellent reasons, beastie!

[beastie boy]

22. Mahalo, Cha!

[WA-03 Democrat]

25. The perfect beautiful blue wave

May it wash all the orange away!

Mahalo Cha!


Biden will beat Tru$$ia like a drum

GO JOE GO!

[Cha]

30. You''re Welcome, WA-03.. Mahalo

to you!

"Tru$$ia.. that's totally appropriate!

[highplainsdem]

23. I agree completely that Warren's health care plan will cause down-ballot damage. K&R!

[madville]

26. Pelosi made it clear Friday that M4A is not on the table

So all it is is a fantasy with no political upside past the primary.

[brutus smith]

27. Some say Warren and Sanders are promoting Medicare for all to get votes.

Ah duh, why would that be? Is that what the majority wants?

[Gothmog]

31. From Harry Reid

Link to tweet

[Kahuna7]

32. I 100% agree and have been saying the same. That's why the Dem "establishment"

is in panic mode. That's why there appears to be a "stop Warren" campaign afoot.

P.S. Don't @ me.