This is where it goes south for Sen Warren..

[Peacetrain]

I have always been leery of the "I've got a plan for that" scenario that was played over and over again.

If they start adding up all the money spent in her plans for this or that, it will be a deal breaker. The right is going to absolutely go after this. How do I know you may ask? I am already hearing it from our more conservative neighbors and acquaintances who usually (and I am hoping they think better of it this time) vote republican.

[INdemo]

1. I knew this post was from a Biden supporter even before I scrolled down the page

You missed the part about raising taxes on the billionaires...and the fact that a Majority of Billionaires are for a tax increase

[emmaverybo]

3. It is not clear that such a tax is constitutional. Probably that question would be litigated for

years. Other countries have tried and failed with a wealth tax. Certainly tax reform is needed, but depending on a wealth tax is iffy.

[dansolo]

19. That is just to pay for M4A

All of her increased taxes are needed just to pay for M4A. That still leaves a trillion dollar deficit, and no money for anything else that she is promising. It also will mean no money to fix crumbling infrastructure, or any other budget priorities that should be increased but can't because there won't be any money left.

[emmaverybo]

26. My concern too.

[emmaverybo]

2. In addition to M4All, Warren proposes the following:

95% student debt amnesty, a two trillion dollar clean energy plan, free two and four year college, 200 dollars more per month in everyone’s Social Security check, affordable housing, revamping military family housing, infrastructure investment, 85 billion dollars on broadband on Native American lands, 50 billion for Black universities, universal childcare, 200 billion to fight opioid addiction crisis, Puerto Rico debt relief, a small business equity fund, and over a dozen others...

Yes, RW has added up the cost. Suspiciously, the Trump machine is keeping its powder dry.

In preparation for the GE, Warren would have to prune and prioritize her extensive plan suite or spend her entire campaign explaining how she will come up with the money to pay for M4All and all of the above. She will also have to make the case that many of these programs will serve well- off folks as well as “working class” and poor.

I’d suggest targeting by income need and focusing on traditionally disenfranchised, ripped off groups first—also going for what is most urgent.

Also, I hope she finds a way to protect Social Security as is before trying to radically increase funding already at such risk.

[Peacetrain]

4. Exactly!! If Sen Warren wins the primarys.. we want her to win the GE!!

I had an op up about this last month.. already I was catching what was up with some of the right.. they have been pretty hands off of Sen Warren and Sen Sanders.. and you know they are up to something on the party level if their caucus people are already talking it up.

[INdemo]

62. You are so wrong

[emmaverybo]

63. You can go to her site or google her plans. She has a full suite of plans. Responding to

another comment you feel is wrong?

[INdemo]

64. You are correct go to her site and read her plans before you trash her

standing on issues.
This is just a twitter feed of her responses and responses by other supporters.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/1177753442221199360

[emmaverybo]

66. I did. I read them. I know supporters love them.

[abqtommy]

5. I agree that "The right is going to absolutely go after this." The reTHUGS are going to practice

their ultimate ratfuckery no matter who our nominee is or what policies are in play. Let's not worry about the REICH WING except in working for their defeat, and in making things better for all the rest of us.

[emmaverybo]

15. Let's not worry about winning the GE?! Let's underestimate our opposition and just go for what

will prove election suicide with multiple voting demographies we need to win because you know it’s time and the country has to shift left.

I am not seeing leadership in that attitude or a winning strategy.

[abqtommy]

22. Perhaps you should read this sentence in my original reply:

"Let's not worry about the REICH WING except in working for their defeat..." Emphasis added.

[emmaverybo]

23. Fair enough! To defeat them though will take every vote we can muster.

[abqtommy]

41. We have the votes; what we need is a fair and secure election!

[emmaverybo]

49. No, we do not yet have the votes, That is a fantasy. And yes, the Trump machine will cheat, so we

need to win by the wildest possible margins.

[INdemo]

65. I'll buy that 1050000%

[SterlingPound]

29. If we want to hear progressive ideals are passable

we need to vote for progressives
so they will be there on the Tv and in the dnc leadership, and in the halls of government
because no one else will say it or push the ideals
but the progressives

[emmaverybo]

50. Yes, you progressives need to get in power to push your agenda. Putting the horse before the cart

will not get you there. On the bus or off the bus attitudes will not help you with the American public or your own party.

I will vote for any Democratic candidate in the general. I am not supporting either of the two progressive candidates in the primary. I will support Amy or Kamala if Biden drops out.

[SterlingPound]

51. I agree

And More People Need to be bringing it up it seems

It tends to get glossed over

[YOHABLO]

6. You can't run for President without putting forth where you want to lead.

Republicans won't vote for Trump. They may stay home. But they're not crazy. I think that works well for the Democratic Party.

[Demsrule86]

35. Republicans for the most part still support Trump, and they will vote for him. You deceive yourself

if you think Trump will be beaten easily.

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. I prefer candidates who say "I've got a plan for that!" Rather than...

"Sorry, we're the richest nation on the planet, but we can't afford the same quality of life as the rest of the civilized world".

It seems we've gone from "Yes We Can!" To "No Can Do (but at least it's not Trump)"

We can do better than Status Quo complacency, pragmatic incrementalism, and fear based defeatism.

[CentralMass]

13. +1

[emmaverybo]

14. Other countries have very high taxes and no, all citizens are not happy with that which is why

Yellow Jackets in France protested. Fascists are using the rising discontent to drive a wedge. Marie Le Pen is gaining a foothold in France. Further, not everything is free in other countries. Universal
childcare in France, for instance, is sliding scale.

Actually I do not want to pay for 95 percent student debt relief for educated millennials making on
average over one hundred thousand a year. No, I do not want higher taxes so well to do elders can
get an extra 800 a month in Social Security, a program already at risk as it exists now.

I would like public housing to be addressed before a huge fed program adds new housing which would take years to achieve and is better don3 at local and state level.

Good heavens, so many social programs currently existing are underfunded and at risk that half these plans are luxuries, impossible ones, for which there is not a national consensus and with which, in their entirety, no democratic candidate stands a chance in hell if winning the GE.

Just get the military-industrial complex to give us all their money. I heard this line in the 60’s. It’s
not gonna happen.

Warren has plenty of time to make economic sense.

[Turin_C3PO]

16. Social security benefits should definitely

be increased. For many, it’s not enough to live on, especially those on SSDI. Many working class and poor workers don’t have any other retirement plan to fall back on.

[emmaverybo]

18. Those are the people who should get increases. Unfortunately, SS is leaking money due to a

huge population of baby boomers turning SS age daily. So what needs to happen first is to shore
up the program sufficiently to give increases, needed as well in disability checks for poor
people.

A giveaway to all recipients is ridiculous, not needed, and disproportionate as a response
to the issue, which is that young workers are not going to get any. Yes, people need help.
People in financial trouble are losing their homes—why prioritize student debt over the massive
foreclosure problem that has decimated whole communities?

Bring down student debt—no need, again, for extravagant give away at the expense of other areas of need. I just am not seeing the sense in plans progressives have proposed as these plans so far are articulated. I am seeing waste and a lack of consciousness about economic and political realities,

I am not disputing the need to address income equality, the needs of the elderly poor, struggling families, whole populations historically held back. It is in the how to go about doing the fixing that
liberals may disagree.

[crazytown]

53. "I am not disputing the need to address income equality

the needs of the elderly poor, struggling families, whole populations historically held back" ... and securing the SS trust fund

What are you in Favor of, that would make a significant dent in these things?

[emmaverybo]

55. Here's my student debt plan (ps I have it myself and am not wealthy, so have some empathy)

Freeze interest during hardship/forebearance/back to school. Allow to charge off in some form of bankruptcy as we do with other debt.

Extend time of hardship for low- wage workers, and unemployed, in cases in which age, family situation, disability, health etc. dims job prospects for future, cancel the debt. Roll back interest substantially for all debtors. Cap how much can be borrowed to attend for-profit colleges.

Free two year colleges, Pell grant expansion, make college affordable. All in all, base
the extent of relief on need, mow debt down by drastically reducing interest, and regulate borrowers, provide mechanism to discharge. Get forgiveness programs up and running. Prohibit SS garnishment.

That will all result in about a fifty percent cancellation. Money saved goes in to other social programs with shoring up social safety net a priority.

See Amy, Joe, Kamala, and Pete for their ideas.

[crazytown]

56. I was asking about income equality

the needs of the elderly poor, struggling families, whole populations historically held back" ... and securing the SS trust fund

-issues that you identified as more pressing / deserving than student debt relief - these are the "whatabouts" - what do you favor to make a big difference on these issues.

[emmaverybo]

57. I favor somebprogressive plans, just want them to target based on need. A very big issue is

in small businesses getting capitalized. Harris addressed this need at the NAACP forum.

Here, I like some of Pete’s ideas in his Frederick Douglass plan. Biden, talking about racial income inequity, said wealth creation to a great extent relies on passing down of houses. Here again, Harris has a plan for AA family homes—to subsidize down payments. I would like quotas in employment so folks have decent enough jobs to pay low interest mortgages.

My not to do is give a big break to all or near-all student debt holders, but target to need, so that money could be allocated instead to give business loans in communities of color when credit is not yet built up, to fund home ownership programs, job training, community charter schools, and give federal help in foreclosures. Whole communities are losing homes.

Why cancel fifty thousand in debt for someone making a hundred thousand today with the prospect for four hundred thousand in a few years? Why provide free childcare to a lawyer and doctor when single mothers trying to move off welfare are on waiting lists to get that help?

As I said, prune and prioritize. Focus on a few intensive investments, get in power, and work to get the rest done. Consult all candidates on plans. Consult and build consensus. Power first.

[crazytown]

58. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

[Fiendish Thingy]

17. Healthcare, childcare, affordable education and relief from crushing student debt

Are hardly "luxuries".

What luxuries were you referring to?

[emmaverybo]

20. Student debt is not "crushing" all people equally. Yes, total or 95 percent amnesty is a grandiose

gesture. I have student debt. I and many like me can pay it either in whole or through income-driven installment without terrible hardship.

There are many measures for relief from crushing debt. I am for a number of these but not Warren or Sander’s plan.

This issue, like so many others, does not boil down to either one is happy to crush
people who are deprived of good quality lives or one is for all of the proposals progressives make, without questioning any of them.

Old and financially strapped people are getting driven from their homes, but I should believe it is more necessary that a single millennial driving a Tesla with years ahead to make two to four hundred thousand a year be relieved of student debt?

[Fiendish Thingy]

32. Is the Tesla driving millennial the new Cadillac driving welfare queen?

Asking for a friend who wants to use Republican talking points.

[emmaverybo]

33. Hah hah. I am not making these millennials up. In the case of Warren and Sanders' plans, such

a situation, a millennial with a very good job and future earning prospects is not an unintended
consequence of a system in need of more monitoring, but actually a person who could get 50,000 dollars discharged.

When liberal Dems make challenges to a version of a plan to relieve debt in one population demographic, calling them out as lobbing RW talking points only goes to show the weakness in the case being made. It is difficult to justify a sweeping student debt amnesty as anything more than
wastefully unnecessary.

[highplainsdem]

8. I agree, Peacetrain. I think we could very well see her poll numbers drop. Especially now that

her non-aggression pact with Sanders seems to have ended.

He's been going after her MFA funding plan

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-calls-plan-fund-medicare-progressive-elizabeth/story?id=66715246

and the Tax Policy Center's Howard Gleckman agrees with him:

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/understanding-warrens-medicare-all-employer-tax

[Bradshaw3]

10. Despite your hopes and efforts, they aren't paying dividends

Attempting to trash Warren has become a daily, multi-thread routine for some Biden supporters. Yet, her numbers on here haven't moved a bit. Obviously you are hoping for better in the polls. Prepare to be disappointed there too.

[Bradshaw3]

9. I see no factual information to back up your claims

Just "I talked to my neighbors". How do you know how much money the plans add up to? If you're going to trash Warren as you and many Biden supporters on here do every day, try using facts and something besides "hey I talked to a guy today" as the basis.

[Peacetrain]

11. Stick your head in the sand if you want to... But Sen Warren has a very good chance of being

nominee from our party.. as I said to someone else in this same thread, I posted on this a month ago..because if she is the nominee we want her to win.. she is going to get kneecapped by this, she has plenty of time to tighten it up.. she needs to.. I think Biden is the best to clean this mess up..but I am backing who ever the Democrat is, and I see her as a very viable, as is Buttigieg.. and Sanders does not have a chance in hell.. (but I would still vote for him if he actually could win it)..

[Lexblues]

12. I don't think we are prepared for the avalanche of ads against M4A

Just think about it...you're going to have political ads, the business industry, and health insurance industry spending billions in running ads against M4A if she's the nominee. The 2020 race will be on M4A and not Trump. We'll have Harry and Louise on steroids if Warren is the nominee.

[Chemisse]

31. Trying to pass health care came close to crippling two presidencies.

What makes people think a candidate can win an election while trying to pass health care?

[emmaverybo]

34. Because they believe the candidate to be all-powerful?

[Kahuna7]

21. I've been saying that for the longest time. Pick one or two "plans"

and make them her signature plans. There's no way in the world those plans are feasible. All the Democrats running will be asked to defend them. We won't be labeled, 'tax and spend liberals.' We'll now be labeled, income redistributing, tax and spend SOCIALISTS.

[emmaverybo]

24. +1000!

[TidalWave46]

25. It was a big part of her rising.

So my second guessing might not have gotten her off the ground in the first place. It should have been “I have a vision.”

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. ALl I care about now vs long term is do we take the WH away from the deeply dangerous piece

of shit (s) in there now?

If M4A polls in such a way that we do, fine, as I am for it anyway.

If M4A polls as a loser, then dump it FOR NOW, do it later AFTER we remove the most dangerous people in our history from our WH.

[Demsrule86]

36. I agree Eliot...nothing matters unless we can the orange fungus out of the White House.

[evertonfc]

28. love her but

she just is a much harder sale in a General. We need to peel off a fraction of the blue collar males and she, in my opinion, won't.

[sagesnow]

30. Why vote for a Corporate backed Democrat who offers

middle class families nothing???

[Demsrule86]

37. We need to win...and corporate Democrat is insulting. People can disagree it doesn't make them any

more or less a Democrat..If you are talking about Biden...than you should stop...he has worked in the trenches for progressive policy and civil rights for decaades;he is offering plenty and his stuff has a shot of becoming law.

[sagesnow]

38. You cannot expect the Candidates who take money

from Insurance, Big Pharma and Hospital PAC's will not be able to offer American families affordable, portable Medicare For All. They will not be able to vote in the best interests of all American families.

[Demsrule86]

67. Liz went after the medical device tax to help her state industry ...and yes I can. You need money to

win ...where do you suppose Liz will get her money from should she win the nomination? She had senate money to contribute to her presidential campaign...was it all from small donors? By the way I see nothing wrong with supporting your job creators in your state as in the medical device industry in Massachusetts.

[sagesnow]

39. What nomenclature would you prefer? n/t

[Demsrule86]

68. None is needed...there is no such thing as a corporate Democrat...this was used to destroy Hillary

Clinton who was the most qualified nominee ever to run... there is a long history of Democrats who are pure enough I guess being called corporate Democrats in an insulting manner...it should stop. Bad enough the country is divided, we shouldn't do it. It probably cost us 16 or at least contributed to our loss.

[Turin_C3PO]

42. You hate Elizabeth Warren?

Alrighty, then.

[OldRed2450]

45. I didn't say that.

[Turin_C3PO]

46. You said his comments

only make you hate his candidate more. His candidate is Elizabeth Warren.

[OldRed2450]

47. I deleted it

I don't want to get banned. I worked for a corporation all my life. I raised my family and paid for my kids college. I've always had decent insurance, most of the people I know work for or have worked for corporations. The term corp democrat is suppose to be an insult from people who have no idea what they're talking about.

[Turin_C3PO]

48. Ok.

I understand where you’re coming from, it’s true that the label “corporate Democrat” gets thrown around too easily. There’s good corporations and bad ones, just like anything else in life.

[redstateblues]

52. It's the old straw man bullshit.

[Turin_C3PO]

43. Joe's the man to trounce Trump!

[Joe941]

44. The knives are coming out. Surprising.

[crazytown]

59. You know, I never wrote a 'This is where it goes south for VP Biden' OP

I wonder why that was? It's not as if I don't have 'concerns' about his campaign. Now Peacetrain is talking about her 'neighbors and acquaintances' voting Republican. Something's up

[Peacetrain]

60. This is not my first op on this.. I have been talking about this for a long time..

I have neighbors who are republicans.. I have acquaintances who work the republican caucus and by that very nature are republican.. I even have relatives who claimed to be independents and voted republican.. I do not live in a blue bubble, but a very purple one.. ..

[OliverQ]

61. Since when does the right care about massive spending?