Joe Biden's ridiculous attack on Elizabeth Warren's 'elitism'

[BeyondGeography]

... Can Warren combat this? Well, she’s done it before. Former Massachusetts senator Scott Brown, who famously drove a 2005 GMC Canyon pickup truck, tried this attack on Warren — who was, after all, a Harvard University professor — in the 2012 Senate election. She defeated him, in part, by pointing out he was no friend of the working class, voting in favor of the conservative Republican agenda over and over again.

So here’s a few reminders. Warren, the daughter of a janitor, devoted years of her professional career to making things better for working people, fighting — ultimately unsuccessfully — bankruptcy “reforms” that ultimately financially crippled millions of American families.

Biden, on the other hand, was so solicitous of big money interests, he acquired the nickname “the senator from MBNA,” after a Delaware-based credit card company. (The same company gave his son Hunter a plum position straight out of law school.) Biden championed that bankruptcy legislation that Warren fought. That law was so profoundly awful for Americans, no less an authority than the New York Federal Reserve believes it played a role in the subprime mortgage crisis and the wave of foreclosures that resulted. That’s quite an accomplishment for a supposed friend of the working man and woman. One might even say he, not Warren, was looking out for the interests of the elite.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/06/joe-bidens-ridiculous-attack-elizabeth-warrens-elitism/

This evening, Warren tweeted:

Link to tweet

[TwilightZone]

1. It's probably no more ridiculous than her "running in the wrong primary" comment.

Welcome to the primaries. It's like this every cycle. You might want to get used to it, because it only gets worse from here.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Oh, adult tips

Awesome.

For context, you might want to look at her full quote and the smears from Biden that preceded it.

[Demsrule86]

7. She basically called him a GOP for not supporting M4A...said he needed to run in the GOP primary.

What about that smear?

[Thekaspervote]

8. Oh but but...we're gonna pile on front runner...SAD!!

[Demsrule86]

31. Yep, He is the front runner and I think he is moving up...

[LanternWaste]

61. Holding your own candidate to a lower standard than the other candidates is...

well, damned convenient.

It allows you to criticize other candidates for the very thing your own candidate does... but without the fizzy aftertaste of hypocrisy, of course.

Awesome, indeed.

[Act_of_Reparation]

99. You're right.

They should have dismissed the reference to Warren's comment as the whataboutism it clearly was. Two wrongs don't make a right. The wrong thing Warren said doesn't make Biden's comment any less wrong.

But you already knew that.

[PatSeg]

17. That's for sure

We have so many really important issues, but primary voters get bogged down with petty, superficial crap. While a handful of Democrats are arguing over who is the "elitist" (neither of them are by the way), Donald Trump is destroying our democracy, our environment, and the stability of the world at a record pace. Time to keep our priorities straight.

Our election seasons are insanely long and that only serves to divide us even more. Best to take a lot of breaks from politics until we get to the general. We've all been through this before, we should know better by now.

[MustLoveBeagles]

39. Stop making sense PatSeg

Just kidding. Please continue.

[PatSeg]

50. Ha, ha, ha

That cracked me up! Love your name!

[MustLoveBeagles]

66. I was trying to lighten the mood

The nastiness is wearing me down. A lot of people seem to like my name. I'm glad I picked it.

[PatSeg]

68. Same here

I limit the amount of time I spend on the primaries forum. Its going to be a LONG year and I can't burn out so early.

My son and his wife have a beagle-Australian cattle dog, but she is mostly beagle. Quite the character and of course very lovable!



https://www.flickr.com/photos/patseg/28511397144/in/album-72157644404940224/" title="2016-08-21 Starbuck"><img src=""

[MustLoveBeagles]

69. This forum can be addicting

I spend more time here than I should but it's hard to stay away. I should visit the Lounge and Music Appreciation more. That dog is a gorgeous blend of both breeds. I love her markings. I have a Tri Color male and a Blue Tick female both 13 years old. They both recently tore their ACL's in the same week. No fun for anyone and lots of vet bills.

[PatSeg]

71. Oh my, both of them?

What are the odds? I think Starbuck is eleven now. She was getting really slow and sluggish, but now she is on some meds that have made her seem several years younger. I think it is an adrenal medication. I could really use some!!!

I try to keep my focus on Trump and the republicans, plus cultivating my hobbies. The stress level these days is too high to be digesting politics 24/7. When it comes to our Democratic candidates, there are some I like better than others, but the day in and day out nitpicking of our own is too exhausting. If I listen to it too much, I start disliking all of them! That's when I know I'm on overload. Other countries don't have to listen to their candidates for over a year. We are always in campaign mode it seems.

[MustLoveBeagles]

88. Yep. Back left leg on both of them

It happened almost 6 weeks ago. They were both running the fence line barking at passing dogs. Oscar on Monday and Stripe on Thursday. At least the casts are off now. It was a pain carrying them up and down the stairs all the time. Especially Stripe. She's very heavy.

I wish the campaign seasons were shorter. President Obama didn't call it silly season for nothing.

[PatSeg]

89. That is so bizarre

They must be so in sync with one another. Can't imagine having to carry them up an down the stairs!

[kennetha]

3. My Way or the Highway Warren

How dare anybody question her, eh?

[BeyondGeography]

4. Amy Klobuchar on Biden calling Warren's policies 'elitist:' 'I wouldn't use that word'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/amy-klobuchar-on-biden-calling-warrens-policies-elitist-i-wouldnt-use-that-word/vi-AAJXc6l

[oldsoftie]

5. No, I wouldnt use "elitist". Just "unrealistic".

She has no way to realistically fund the proposals in her platform. Period.

[Thekaspervote]

9. Yes...it is but we all like unicorns and magic beads ...right??!!

[Jakes Progress]

75. You do not understand how health insurance works.

What is Biden's plan to achieve universal health care? He can throw stones, but he cannot put forth a coherent plan.

Warren has shown her funding plan. Biden just ducks the issue of his "plan".

[betsuni]

76. Biden's plan is the ACA with public option and other improvements.

If there wasn't a plan to fund the ACA including a public option, the bill wouldn't have passed Congress, which it did.

[Buzz cook]

77. But the ACA with a public option didn't pass

Part of the deal in passing the ACA was that there would be no public option.

Giden and the rest who advocate this system should explain how they will pay for it.

[betsuni]

78. It passed Congress with a public option.

Joe Lieberman and a few other senators wouldn't vote for it and it was removed from the bill. The point is that it wouldn't have passed in the Congress if it was clear it couldn't be funded.

[Jakes Progress]

91. Biden's plan

actually has a plan than to have one yourself.

Biden does not have a plan for universal health coverage. He conveniently leaves out how many would have to do without.

Simple math. It cost x amount to have universal health coverage. That is how much Warren's plan would cost. Now add profit for the insurance industry. Pay their executives millions. Hire multi-million dollar lobbying companies. Add in multiple millions in extra paper work.

Add the x amount (Warren's plan) to the insurance costs and you have other candidate's plan costs.

You have two options left. You can just say "Hey. I got mine. Fuck anyone else." Or you can be honest and say that you want ACA and universal options and lots of insurance profits. That would cost more. To say otherwise is just ignoring math. And we know who doesn't care about facts.

So does Biden's plan tell a couple of thousand people to just go to hell when it comes to health care, or does he favor a plan that costs much more than Warren's?

[oldsoftie]

86. Yes, Warren has shown her funding plan. 1/2 of it is a fairytale.

Fully 16 trillion comes from the same things we've heard about for 40 years; increased enforcement, less fraud waste and abuse, trimming costs (the government never lays off people), etc. And there no way to quantify these "savings" even if they WERE realistic

[Jakes Progress]

90. Go ahead and trot out the Wall Street meme.

I have to ask if you work for the insurance industry.

Show me any way that we can achieve universal health care the doesn't cost more.

I can just as easily toss off silly memes like, Biden is obviously a tool of Wall Street. You just used the MSM favorite that her detailed plan is unrealistic.

The plan is very realistic. It borrows the best from a dozen other countries that manage to have universal health care without buying gold faucets for the guest bathrooms at the lake house of insurance CEOs.

Try reading her plan instead of just parroting what the millionaire MSM talking heads tell you.

[oldsoftie]

94. No, it ignores what most other countries do, which is tax almost EVERYONE.

And those countries also use a VAT to raise a good portion of revenue.
We refuse to entertain that here. Even though it would finally tax trillions of untaxed unreported revenue.
But by all means, run on it. At the end, I'm voting for whoever is left. But Dont blame me if we end up with shitgibbon again

[Jakes Progress]

108. Ah. You have a magic plan. Let's hear it.

How will you pay for universal coverage and give insurance corporations billions in profit for less than M4A?

Yes. Taxes in other countries can be higher. Their quality of life is also higher. Their life expectancy is longer. The amount they pay for health care is significantly less than what is spent in the US.

How is you don't protest being taxed for things other than health care? Is your income derived from the insurance industry? Do you really want universal coverage? That comes dangerously near the "I got mine. To hell with you" attitude of the other guys.

[oldsoftie]

109. Its not magic at all. Its dealing with REALITY.

Look at Germany. You start paying income taxes at about 20k (US). So pretty much everyone pays SOME income taxes. Here, fully HALF the workforce pay NO income taxes; and many get back more than they pay in. In Germany, they have a VAT; which everyone pays. The VAT & the income tax account for most of the revenue in Germany. Here, we not only leave out 1/2 the earners from income tax, we also miss out on a ton of money from stated income earners. Claim what you want; no 1099 or W2 to follow up.
How much more would be raised doing what THEY do? I dont know; I dont have a bevy of economists available to me. But it would raise more than these fantasy taxes. And of course, nobody has even mentioned how to deal with the 23+ trillion debt

[Jakes Progress]

111. You do know

that you are espousing the arguments that republicans have given for their tax machinations for decades.

You are making up sources of revenue without a single idea of how much money it means. There is a reason that the right leaning candidates are not really arguing with Warren's numbers and sources. They know that she had help from very accomplished economists and tax experts to make her plan. They know they can't attack the plan with specifics, so they throw out terms like "fantasy" and "crazy" and avoid any evidence for their claims. It is lazy and it is dishonest.

But it seems to work on even people who post on DU.

[oldsoftie]

113. Making up sources of revenue? Guess I fit right in with Warren!

Fully HALF of her projections are conjecture. "Fraud waste & abuse" IS the old republican line about where to get money, not the Democrats.

And I quote Germany's sources of revenue, so I'm hardly making ANYTHING up.

[Jakes Progress]

114. You are obviously avoiding actually having a point.

You have not read Warren's plan. You have not read Biden's plan, which shouldn't be difficult to do since it only has the barest possible discussion of how to fund and is only full of glossy "ideas" and "aims" and avoids any mention of who will be covered or how it will be funded.

Clinton, Gore, and Obama all cited waste and fraud as sources of revenue for Medicare. And for Social Security. But they, nor the republicans, listed where it would be found and how it would be recouped. Warren does. You would know that if you actually read the things you are ranting about.

If you had read any of what you complain about you or actually knew anything about European social democracies, you would know the differences between Warren's plan and those of the EU countries.

I refer you to Paul Krugman's recent column about the lazy and uniformed "liberals" who complain that M4A would make us like (shock and horror) Europe. Begin there and then continue your education with some actually experience with studying something before your put your lack of knowledge on display.

[oldsoftie]

115. I'd trust Steve Rattner over Paul Krugman any day.

If I would have listened to Krugman in '16, I would have lost 1/2 of my retirement. He's predicted 6 of the past 3 recessions.
Rattner has gone over Warrens plan piece by piece & points out the fallacies of her expectations. Having the federal government charter businesses is a disaster waiting to happen; with cronyism sure to control winners & losers. Trillions & trillions of "new" dollars are NOT going to be raised by her new tax plans. And she even admits that millions of jobs will be lost under her own plans.
Only ONE thing matters this election and thats getting rid of trump. Pissing off people by telling them they cant keep their insurance isnt a good way to get votes. Everyone remembers the "like your doctor, keep your doctor" mistake. And you know that will be pulled out in a 1000 ads. People will NOT believe that a govt plan will definitely be better than what they already like now.
But you have a right to your opinions. Have at it. The focus should be "get rid of trump".
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/medicare-warren-plan.html

https://stevenrattner.com/2019/11/steven-rattners-morning-joe-charts-warrens-health-care-math-doesnt-add-up/

[Jakes Progress]

116. That explains a lot.

First, you obviously didn't read the Krugman piece. (Who else do we know that avoids confronting facts that contradict his previously held opinion?)

Second, you are still doing the shuffle dance that Biden is doing. You can't even begin to explain how you will pay for universal health care and for Big Insurance profits and expenses for less that just paying for universal health care. Rattner does the same thing.

Third, you will not say whether you believe that America can do universal health care? Are you saying that math is fungible? Or are you saying that you don't really care about those without healthcare as long as you get to keep yours? So do you believe in facts or do you believe that your welfare is more important than the people's?

(Show me where Warren says that "millions" of jobs will be lost. Granted those who make a living by sucking the health care dollar from American citizens in order to maintain the yachts of the Insurance CEO's will have to find employment that doesn't rely on hurting people. Uh. Would you happen to make a living by funneling people's money to the Insurance corporations?)

[oldsoftie]

117. Yes, I read it. It assumes too many things that cannot be assumed, which is Krugmans thing

https://www.yahoo.com/news/warren-admits-universal-medicare-result-153853928.html
“An economist at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, told Kaiser Health News earlier this year that that could result in about 2 million jobs lost,” mostly within the healthcare industry, said NHPR reporter Casey McDermott.

“So I agree,” Warren replied. “I think this is part of the cost issue and should be part of a cost plan.”

You keep asking if I work in the insurance industry, NO.

You keep talking about me ignoring facts; you keep ignoring that warren's plans will NOT raise the money needed for the all-at-once plans. Not to mention, free college, student loan forgiveness, Green New Deal, etc. Our total budget NOW is just over 4 trillion. She wants to practically double that, but ONLY taxing the "rich". I put it in quotes because the definition of what makes you rich is going to be a much lower number than she'd like us to believe.
You REALLY think she can find 1.5 trillion a YEAR in just "fraud waste and abuse"? Most people here are totally against doing whats needed to really catch fraudsters. And there are a TON of them, I know. I see it every day.

But I'll give Warren credit for at least putting out how she plans to do it.
Aske the same question of Bernie Sanders. You wont get much of anything for an answer

But as I said before, you have every right to your opinion. If you think this fiasco will beat trump, fine. But if he wins reelection because of a few million who dont want to give up THEIR health plans, its on you.

[Jakes Progress]

118. Ask Biden the same question.

You don't get any answer.

If your job is to take money from the poor and middle class and give it to billionaires, you need to be out of a job.

I'm sorry. The numbers are very clear. The only people who keep saying they won't work are people who do not explain why, and who support other candidates.

Most people where? DU?

You still don't explain how you can do everything that M4A will do and pay insurance profits and expenses for less that you can do everything M4A will do. That's the part that the hard middle keeps ignoring. When logic and facts don't support a position, I guess the thing to do is call the other people names.

If trump wins, it will be because of the same reason he did last time. Sure a bunch of people who hated Hillary for the primary eventually voted for her, but they spent months trying to convince the undecided just how bad she was. This primary and the debates have been a huge fiasco. The Democratic primary might as well have been devised by the gop. See the George Takes tweet on the home page. Democrats need to stop calling other Democrats names like "liar" "addled" "angry" "crazy".

How the hell can Biden campaign for Warren if she wins, or vice versa. Even our Democratic candidates are too concerned with winning the primary instead of the election.

Biden is a good man. Warren is smart. Either would be not just better than trump, but truly good at the job.

As far as the health care "debate", it is moot. With a republican congress and a judiciary stacked with trump appointees, we won't get M4A. Nor a public option. We won't even get to expand the ACA. So trying to kill each other over it is just dumb. It is only a campaign point for both candidates, each of whom is smart enough to know this. The candidates need to work together instead of helping the gop tear each other down.

I guess my point for Warren is that she at least stands up the Pharma and Big I. I think she would be less accommodating to corporate interests.

[BeyondGeography]

11. If only she was as grounded as Joe

Link to tweet

[beastie boy]

21. Actually, she is.

As you speak, she is working with the same Republicans in the Senate that Joe has referred to. The minute she stops doing it, she becomes the most useless member of the Senate.

[Thekaspervote]

45. Oh no!!! The voice of sanity...heavens sakes....thank you!!

[Jakes Progress]

74. You are very uninformed on the matter.

M4A is the cheapest way to achieve universal healthcare. I assume as a Democrat you believe that universal health care is a good thing.

How will Biden fund universal health care? He has no plan that doesn't leave thousands of our poorest and sickest without health care.

[oldsoftie]

87. You are uninformed on reality. 5 trillion a year CANNOT be raised.

Unless you tax the hell out of EVERYONE. The wealth tax is a joke in what it would supposedly raise. She ignores the fact that many people LIKE their current insurance plans and dont trust the government to improve on it ("I dont know anyone who likes their insurance&quot . She ignores all the economists, many of them progressive, who flat out say her funding projections are overblown to the point of being ridiculous.
A lot of people will not vote for this train wreck. Everyone should be focused on BEATING TRUMP, not making promises that cant be kept.
Thats the real world.

[Jakes Progress]

92. Stop doing Wall Street's work.

I can take every sentence in your reply and refute it with facts and honesty.

But you already know that you are peddling silliness. You use phrases like "train wreck" and "joke" and "real world". How about some numbers and facts? How about I call your "train wreck" and raise you a "poppycock"? Just silly.

You say this is the real world. In the real world, every single industrial country has universal health care. We could have that too if people who don't know what they are talking about would quit spouting the lies and misdirection that they swallow so easily.

[oldsoftie]

93. No, you CANT refute every point. Fully 1/2 of her revenue projections are guesses.

Its's the old "fraud waste and abuse" lines that we used to hear from Reagan.
And even if her numbers WERE realistic, it does NOTHING to reduce the debt.
Show me some major economists who actually buy her revenue projections.

[Jakes Progress]

107. I see you never worked with budgets.

All budgets are "guesses".

Her "guesses" are based on numbers that actually exist. The "let's let everybody have exactly what they want" crowd - universal coverage plus insurance industry profits and costs added - are less than guesses. No where do any of the more corporate minded candidates explain how they will finance their promises. It sounds good, so they just say it regardless of the fact that they all know it will either cost millions more than M4A or will live millions without coverage.

Since you don't like the real numbers in Warren's plan, who's plan do you prefer? And which version of their plan do you like - the one where they leave millions without insurance or the one that will cost millions more than Warren's?

Perhaps you already have coverage and don't really have a great concern for those that don't. If that isn't the case, then I challenge you to explain how you will achieve universal coverage for less cost than M4A. Of course, I don't expect you to reply to these questions, but rather that you will trot out more generalities and insurance industry smoke.

[oldsoftie]

110. You will NOT cover more people for less when you cancel coverages that people LIKE

And you will also not get their votes. Millions are covered by plans that were negotiated by their unions; they're not going to simply trust the govt to do a better job for less money. Obviously if you are going to include fewer people in the govt plan you're also going to be doing it at a lower cost. Whether its Biden, Buttegeig, Klobuchar, etc, their plans arent going to toss people off coverage or leave people who want it out.
But go ahead and hit for the fences. More often than not that winds up as an OUT.
You call Warrens numbers "real". Please. No realistic accounting of her ideas can raise 3 trillion more a year than we do now to pay for everything desired.

[Jakes Progress]

112. Do you not know how Medicare works?

You are arguing both sides of the argument. As well as ignoring simple math.

1+1 equals 2. That is Warren's plan. The cost of healthcare plus the cost of management. (Let me save you a rabbit hole. Medicare's administrative costs are less than a quarter of the insurance industry.)

You and the less progressive candidates argue for a plan that looks like this:

1+1+1+1+1 equals less than 1.

That would be the cost of healthcare plus the cost of management plus the expense for lobbies plus the cost for advertising plus the dividends for share holders plus profit margins plus salaries for the thousands of paper pushers plus the multi million dollar compensation given to CEO's.

Now who is playing with fantasy math. You do not know what "real" numbers mean if you think you can pay insurance corporations costs and provide healthcare for less than just providing healthcare. That is ignoring reality.

(And at least understand what Medicare for All means. Notice the two words "for All". I'm on Medicare. Everyone in the country over 65 is on Medicare. It is under your plan that thousands and thousands would be left out.)

[highplainsdem]

16. Yes, and then Klobuchar went on to say that "no one has a monopoly on good ideas." That's HER

way of expressing what both Biden and Buttigieg meant by Warren's "my way or the highway" attitude.

I admire Warren's intelligence. But she does often project an academic elitism that I think is partly due to her debate background (even when you train to argue both sides of an issue, you train to argue them in each debate as if the other side has no real validity) and her background as a law professor lecturing students.

After one of the debates, I saw one of her supporters here post a message praising Warren for looking like a brilliant professor lecturing dumb students (the dumb students being the other candidates). Those weren't the exact words used, and I've been trying to find that post again but haven't used the right keywords, apparently. But that was the gist of it. Brilliant professor versus dumb students.

I was really struck by that post -- both by how perfectly it nailed an image Warren creates at times that IMO hurts her with people who aren't completely sold on her already, and by how unaware that Warren supporter was that coming across that way could be a problem for Warren.

And btw, if you don't think criticizing a "my way or the highway" attitude and saying "no one has a monopoly on good ideas" mean the same thing, here's part of a speech from President Obama:

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/25/remarks-president-economy-jacksonville-fl

So put out some plans. I don't claim to have a monopoly on every good idea. (Laughter.) I don't. I'm happy to steal good ideas from anybody, because I just want to make things work. And it may seem hard sometimes, but if we're willing to take a few bold steps -- if Washington will just shake off its complacency and set aside just this kind of constant gridlock and “my way or the highway” attitude, then our economy will be better a year from now, just like it's better now than it was last year. And it will be better five years from now. And it will be better 10 years from now.

In his essay posted on Medium, Biden made it clear he was talking about an elitism that believes it has a monopoly on good ideas:

Some call it the “my way or the highway” approach to politics. But it’s worse than that. It’s condescending to the millions of Democrats who have a different view.

It’s representative of an elitism that working and middle class people do not share: “We know best; you know nothing”. “If you were only as smart as I am you would agree with me.”

So you have three candidates who are all getting the same impression from Warren. (At least three.)

[PatSeg]

19. Democrats need to quit using right-wing

talking points. "Elitist" is a republican smear against Democrats, we don't need to reinforce it.

[BeyondGeography]

20. Exactly right, fire away, but try not to write Trump's lines for him

[PatSeg]

47. Exactly!

Make them do their own dirty work.

[betsuni]

24. Bernie Sanders says "elite" all the time.

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2019, 12:13 AM - Edit history (1)

"We need a Democratic Party that is not a liberal elite but of the working class of this country ..."

"Democrats have focused too much on a liberal elite. That is, raising incredible sums of money from wealthy people."

"It is not good enough to have a liberal elite. I come from the white working class ... ."

"The political, financial, and media elite of this country will stop at nothing to defeat us."

"The business model, if you will, of the Democratic Party for the last 15 years or so has been a failure. ... The Democratic Party has transformed itself from the party of the working class ... to a party significantly controlled by a liberal elite ... ."

"Last time we ran, we made the financial elite pay a price for their attack on our progressive agenda."

He's not a Republican.

[Cha]

35. Thank you, betsuni! This is BS AFTER the General Election on CBS Nov 14th..

“There needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business. It is not good enough to have a liberal elite,” Sanders said in an interview on “CBS This Morning.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-deeply-humiliated-democrats-cant-talk-to-working-class/

Just sayin'

[betsuni]

38. He says it constantly. I guess some people aren't very familiar with Bernie!

It's in practically every speech (for decades) and email.

[Cha]

40. Yes and I'm glad you brought it up because

I was thinking about it but didn't really want to wade in.. but ya left me no choice. lol

It sounds like one of his favorite words. Does BS get repercussions for accusing the whole Dem party of being "elite"?

[betsuni]

43. Never!

I think favorite word-wise, it's a toss up between "establishment" and "elite."

[Skya Rhen]

44. Boom!

[PatSeg]

48. Whoa, that's unsettling

Especially when you see all those quotes together. I'm sure he means well, but this whole anti-elitism contributes to a mindset that is anti education and anti intelligence, a way of dumbing down America. "Liberal elite" is an anti Democratic party slur and reinforces the republican and Fox News talking points. Clearly Bernie has contempt for the Democratic party, which is fine, but I wish he wouldn't use the party for his own political ambitions.

That said, I agree with a lot of what Bernie says, but clearly not the way he says it. Much too divisive at a time when we need more unity.

[kcr]

72. He also doesn't call himself a Dem. Never won the Presidential primary, either.

So, maybe not the best candidate to emulate?

[betsuni]

73. I thought Biden used it in a "taste of your own medicine" kind of way.

I saw it directed more at Bernie Sanders than Warren. Maybe that's just me. Bernie's the one who always accuses Democrats of being corrupt elites and the same as Republicans, and constantly says Biden is corrupt because of fundraisers. I just can't see it directed at only Warren, that would be an overreaction to an off-hand comment.

The LA Times surveyed their readers in August 2016 and the top negative words about our Democratic nominee were: liar, corrupt, war, DNC, money, fraud, foundation, primary. Nobody on the Left should be encouraging this so it doesn't happen again next year.

[Cha]

37. Sanders on CBS AFTER the General Election.. November 14th..

“There needs to be a profound change in the way the Democratic Party does business. It is not good enough to have a liberal elite,” Sanders said in an interview on “CBS This Morning.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bernie-sanders-deeply-humiliated-democrats-cant-talk-to-working-class/

Just sayin..

[PatSeg]

49. Yeah

Not a great way to win over Democratic voters. I agree that the party needs to focus more on the working class, but not like that. Sounds like something Frank Luntz would write. You don't win over some voters by excluding or insulting others.

[stopdiggin]

52. was going to say the same thing

could we maybe tone down the "elitist" .. "academic" .. "ivory tower" buzz words? If somebody is going to be sneering at the "so called experts" and the pointy headed intellectuals .. I sort of rather it be the other side rather than my own? I rather like to think that we are still the party that believes in science .. and education .. and ideas.

[PatSeg]

58. Spot on

The world needs intelligent, accomplished people. Putting them down is not healthy. The definition of elite is "a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society". Who do you want doing your brain surgery or building your bridges or flying your airplanes.................OR running your country?

Right-wing spin doctors have taken another good word and turned it into something negative, like "liberal".

[BlueMTexpat]

54. Thanks for this!

[PatSeg]

59. You're welcome!

[JudyM]

62. So much this. It's a ready-made ad clip for tRump.

[PatSeg]

64. I know

We shouldn't be doing his work for him.

[TCJ70]

56. Isn't that what other candidates say as well, though?

Biden says his plan is the way to go. His way or the highway.
Klobuchar says she’s right and others are wrong. Her way or the highway.

Ultimately, every plan will require hard work and no ones plan is more likely to pass than anyone else’s.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

80. Precisely!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

6. First of all, she shouldn't call Democrats who don't agree with her as needing to run in a

different primary...IE Republicans. It is rather my way or the highway with Warren...you have to agree with me or you are not a Democrat. Scott Brown tried a different attack as he was GOP...he made fun and sneered at her academic background...called her professor-the egg- head smear which will never work of course. She is an educated intelligent woman. He looked ridiculous (Brown).

Biden didn't do this at all he said her my way or the highway approach that all Democrats had to agree with her policy proposals particularly M4A was a bit condescending and it is...isn't this the second post on this?

[Thekaspervote]

10. Can't claim this but .. Biden is running against trump, everyone else is running against Joe

Let’s get him!!

[Demsrule86]

30. Very good point...love the smiley...

[pangaia]

12. WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP PISSING ON EACH OTHER!!!!!!

jeesh !!



You sound like a bunch of bored, spoiled brats!!!




Here.. listen to this instead.....
much healthier use of one's time..

Brilliant conducting and playing, BTW....

[BeyondGeography]

13. Hey, I discovered this lovely Scriabin piano concerto this week

Better late than never:

[pangaia]

15. I've heard that one long ago?

Scriabin is, in my view, a greatly underappreciated composer....

[BeyondGeography]

18. I was thrilled to hear it

I fall into repertory rut syndrome a lot so anything new is like a gift at this point.

[pangaia]

22. Well, you came to the right place....

#1 Played this last week..

[pangaia]

23. Playing this one next week

[pangaia]

25. And another GREAT Polish/"Russian" - Mieczyslaw Weinberg

Arguably the equal of Shostakovich and Prokofiev-- or at least up at that level...---

[BeyondGeography]

27. Thank you, friend

You play timpani, right? What’s it like to wail on Beethoven’s 7th?

[pangaia]

41. Ah ha, funny you should mention that..

One of the glories of being a timpanist, and there are MANY, is the 2. BIg A7 chords just before the end.. . You can hear them here starting at about 42:15 ,

Many years ago while playing this, just before the first one, one of the back desk 2nd violins, who was fairly close in front of me for some reason, turned around and screamed at me, "Beat the shit out of those drums!" And so I did! So I did!

BTW. the timpanist in this video with the Concertgebouw is Mariss Komst.,one of the great ones. He just retired. I last ran into him on an elevator at the Sejong Art Center in Seoul, South Korea. 🤣 Neither of us knew the other was in town. 😎

[Thekaspervote]

14. Spoiled brats indeed!!

[MustLoveBeagles]

36. Thank you for your post and video clip

Biden is a big Doodyhead! Warren's got cooties!



This bickering is so childish. They're both great candidates whom I would be proud to vote for next November. I just happen to agree more with Biden that's all.

[pangaia]

42. Lolololol

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2019, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie has bad breath
Pete is a boring dresser
Kamala has a loud voice
Tulsi us nuts.... well, that one, maybe...

🤣

[MustLoveBeagles]

65. Amy's a mean boss, Cory's mom wears combat boots

I'm glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended. You may be right about Tulsi. She's the only candidate I don't care for.

[pangaia]

67. come to think of it...

bernie probably DOES have bad breath

pete is kind of a boring dresser

kamala does often speak loudly.. on the other hand, there are some real screamers...

[MustLoveBeagles]

70. LOL

[redstateblues]

26. Why did Warren start this shit?

Calling Joe a Republican- She is the only one running that was a registered Republican

[BlueMTexpat]

55. Same here. eom

[PhoenixDem]

32. What worked against Scott Brown in ultra-blue Massachusetts

is not going to work in middle-America.

[Thekaspervote]

46. Oh so true!

[FloridaBlues]

33. If you dish out be prepared to receive or candidates

[BeckyDem]

34. Warren will not ever stop fighting for Medicare for All.

[customerserviceguy]

51. I like Joe Biden

but his statements do strike me as a bit whiny. He's been way stronger in the debates, when he stays focused and on message.

We're coming down to the nasty part of primary season, time to fasten the seat belts.

[Mike Nelson]

53. Well...

... the "ragged edge of middle class" probably looks better than "dirt poor" to most people... Elizabeth doesn't show any more "elitism" than Joe. They are both doing well - they are in an "elite" group of politicians that have the wealth/power combo most Americans will never experience. Bernie, too... but they genuinely understand and want to work on behalf of the non-elites, in my opinion. When I was in college, we were suspicious of what we called the "power elite". This group would be bankers, big pharm, corporate business leaders of great wealth. Elizabeth isn't one of those elites!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. Ridiculous is right!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Baclava]

60. Biden "the senator from MBNA", lol

Oh yeah, the gloves are coming off, its bare knuckle time

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. "Elitism" is a shameful attack from someone who used to point out he was the first in his family

to go to university. He used to see academic advancement as an achievement, not something that discounts you. I wonder what his wife, the doctor of education, thinks about an attack on someone based on them getting so far in education?

[Cha]

79. "Elizabeth Warren ripped Joe Biden's big Philly fund-raiser. Last year, she did an event with some..

of the same rich donors."

WASHINGTON — When Joe Biden went to Philadelphia late last month for a high-dollar fund-raiser with powerful lawyers and executives on the first day of his presidential campaign, Sen. Elizabeth Warren blasted him.
“How did Joe Biden raise so much money in one day? Well, it helps that he hosted a swanky private fund-raiser for wealthy donors at the home of the guy who runs Comcast’s lobbying shop,” Warren wrote in an email to supporters the next day, April 26.

Warren wrote on Friday that her schedule doesn’t include “fancy private fundraising events where only big donors are invited.” Another message said, “Our democracy is not for sale, and neither is my time.”

Some of Biden’s top donors have bristled at the criticism, because they remember attending expensive private events for Warren in Philadelphia as recently as last year.

While she has sworn off such gatherings for her presidential campaign, Warren held fund-raisers for her 2018 Senate reelection bid at a major Center City law firm last year and at the Rittenhouse Hotel in 2017.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/elizabeth-warren-joe-biden-presidential-fund-raisers-philadelphia-20190507.html

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287110075#top

Neener neener neener!

[betsuni]

82. "swanky private fundraisers"

[Cha]

83. Yes, EW accuses Biden of going to "Swanky private fundraisers.."

when she went to some of the same ones last year.

It's like.. "neener neener neener.. I went to them last year.. but you can't go to them this year or I'll "blast" you.

Some of Biden’s top donors have bristled at the criticism, because they remember attending expensive private events for Warren in Philadelphia as recently as last year.

"Swanky" almost sounds like.. wait for it.. Elitey!

[betsuni]

84. I'd bristle too. Insinuations that donors are buying influence and candidates are corrupt.

It's purity musical chairs. Absurd. It's saying the Democratic kittycat in the room is the real danger when the hungry Republican lion is crouched to pounce right behind you.

[Cha]

85. Too Right.. Thanks for pointing that out!..

It's bizarre!

“Our democracy is not for sale, and neither is my time.”

That's completely uncalled for.. implying that Biden is selling out. She knows better than that. She wasn't "selling out" when she went to the some of the same ones last year so why would she say that about Biden?

[WobblyDem]

81. Biden's hypocrisy is laughable

Had to double check to be sure, but yeah:

Biden made this statement at a LOBBYING HEADQUARTERS where the requested floor price was a cool ten g r a n d. Don't have enough people on speed dial to raise that money conveniently? Don't worry, just give us the most a single person is allowed to donate and we'll let you in. Elites? What elites?

This is after he already blew 7 figures on traveling in a private jet.

Attending was Rudy Giuliani's pick for a federal prosecutor, now on the US-Russia Business Council who tried to sue the government when asked about his lobby's clients (incl. Coca-Cola and Freeport-McMoRan, which backs ethnic suppression in Indonesia) Biden really wants to court this crowd? Really?

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-influence/2019/11/07/biden-comes-to-k-street-782149

He only makes these statements because he assumes people either won't pay attention or won't care if they do. We can do so much better than this.

[Renew Deal]

95. A Harvard professor would be a member of the so called "elite"

As would being a student there. But that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t do it just to prove how normal they are.

[Gothmog]

96. I agree with Joe

Link to tweet

?s=20

[BeyondGeography]

97. Whiny and untrue

Two weeks prior he compared her to Trump and when she released her M4A pay-fors he said she was making it up. Then she made the remark.

But who expects truth from Biden in such matters?

[Gothmog]

98. I strongly disagree

Joe is correct on this

[BeyondGeography]

100. He called her a liar again last night

Is she allowed to “attack” again? Or are there special rules for Uncle Joe?

[Gothmog]

101. No he did not -Watch the clip

Link to tweet

[BeyondGeography]

103. Tell us the truth

Seems to me he doesn't think she's telling the truth. If she responds in kind will she be "attacking" poor Joe again?

[Gothmog]

104. There is a concept in poltics called vetting

Warren has put out a plan that one of her own sources states will not work. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287340242 It is appropriate to ask questions about this plan. I have looked at Warren's plan and I think that it does not hold up.

I live in the real world. There is no way that Warren's plan can pass even if we abolish the filibuster and get control of the Senate. I prefer something that works in the real world

Link to tweet

[BeyondGeography]

105. Oh, a real world lecture...Joe's supposedly easy to pass plan will be fought just as hard as M4A

The health care industrial complex hates all of our candidates' plans with a passion and they are geared up to smear as much FUD on the public option as on MFA:

CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans: Biden's healthcare plan is not much different from MFA

The CEO of America's Health Insurance Plans said a healthcare plan proposed by Democratic presidential candidate and former Vice President Joe Biden is not much different than "Medicare for All," which the industry strongly opposes, according to The Hill.

In an interview with The Hill, AHIP CEO Matt Eyles spoke out against Mr. Biden's healthcare plan, which aims to strengthen the ACA while also introducing a public health insurance option. Mr. Eyles said the public option, which would be similar to Medicare, would lead to too much government involvement in the healthcare system.

"If you're creating a government-run option that essentially leverages price controls, and relies on a government-administered system, that doesn't create what would be a competitive playing field," Mr. Eyles told the publication. "We're viewing Medicare for All and all of these other … variations on it, as similarly bad."

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/payer-issues/ahip-comes-out-against-biden-s-healthcare-plan.html

AHIP is a member of the anti-Medicare for All industry group called the Partnership for America’s Health Care Future, which has been running ads against Medicare for All and public option proposals from the leading Democratic presidential candidates. They want to keep things just as they are.

https://americashealthcarefuture.org/about-us/

[Gothmog]

106. According to Jared Bernstein, a Public Option is a far cheaper alternative

Warren's plan will likely need $34+ trillion in new funding. A public option is far more cost effective in the real world

Link to tweet

Remarkably, a public-option plan that requires more cost-sharing than single payer but significantly less than current law gets to near-universal coverage for less in additional federal costs than the Trump tax cuts ($1.8 trillion over 10 years for the plan vs. $1.9 trillion for the tax cuts).

[gibraltar72]

102. Anyone wanna talk about who's all in for corporations? Anyone, anyone.