Elizabeth Warren Was Dismissed as Angry and Antagonistic and a Harvard Elitist All in One Day

[BlueMTexpat]

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a29727262/elizabeth-warren-angry-antagonistic-harvard-elitism/

...
Nobody said this running for president thing was going to be easy, and SPW has been introduced to that simple fact ever since she began showing signs that her anti-corruption, anti-monopoly, anti-money-power message was finally breaking through. (Remember, the same people who are all doom and gloom about her possible nomination were the ones saying she was done last spring.) Since then, she has rolled out the pricing mechanism of her version of Medicare For All, which various rivals and plutocrats have jumped on, somehow eliding the obvious fact that, as long as Mitch McConnell has a Senate majority, any Democrat’s healthcare proposal is definitionally aspirational. In which case, why not go big?
...
I have known SPW for almost a decade. I don’t know one person who’s met her in person, with the possible exception of Timothy Geithner and/or Larry Summers, who ever found her angry or antagonistic. In purely human terms, her likability is obvious and authentic. Purely in terms of political utility, “likability” is, in this case, being weaponized in contravention of the observable experience of thousands of people. This is not merely a "more vigorous phase of the debate." It’s complete nonsense and it should be evaluated as such.
...
As for the piece in TBOTP ["Tiger Beat on the Potomac"], well, a lot of it depends on a attack plan devised in 2012 by Scott Brown, which is to say, to quote the thing is to refute it. Brown ran one of most brainless, stupid campaigns in modern history. He had two clear advantages going into the election: he was the incumbent and people really liked him. He had a compelling personal story and he sounded like everyone’s favorite soccer Dad. And then his campaign geniuses decided he should campaign like a drive-time radio host.
...
And it didn’t work. I mean, it failed spectacularly. One of the reasons it failed was that SPW got around the state and met so many people that Brown looked like at best an idiot and, at worst, a liar and a bully. She won over the late mayor of Boston, Tom Menino, who was the very model of a blue-collar pol, and someone who’d largely sat out the election that put Brown in the Senate. Brown never really found his footing again. I guess it’s somewhat to his credit that he was an unconvincing bully. But he lost that election by following the game plan that TBOTP "obtained."
...

*********
Much more at the link. Charles Pierce is having lots of fun. But he is also serious. Like him, I too would like to see a campaign that is covered neither like a sporting event nor performance art. But also like him, I'm not holding my breath.

[Lonestarblue]

2. Misogyny is alive and well.

And the folks on Morning Joe are absolutely praising Michael Bloomberg this morning and talking about how strong he will be against Donald Trump. They’re a cheering squad for Bloomberg! Never mind the polls showing voters to be disinterested. It’s all about the billionaires’ fears of a President Warren forcing them to pay fair taxes and changing our healthcare system to one that might actually work. Many people fear change so much that they’d rather live with the nonfunctional status quo than risk making a change.

[blm]

5. Some Trump voters in 2016 just voted for disruption. ANY disruption would be

fine with them.

[spooky3]

62. I'm probably alone in this, but I could envision a Warren-Bloomberg ticket. I don't think they

are so far apart on most issues, and I believe if she wins the primary - still a big "if", obviously - she will, like other candidates, tack toward the center to some extent.

I think they would be a good combination, but would need to address issues regarding race, and may be perceived as "Easterners", though (a) Warren spent much of her time in Oklahoma, and (b) the "Easterner" thing didn't seem to hurt Trump with anyone.

[blm]

3. The attacks on her character have been evil. Anti-corruption candidates get targeted

for takedown by big power and the minions who serve them....every time.

We have to fight it back....harder.

[no_hypocrisy]

4. I'm a graduate of an independent all women's college with nine years of college.

This is just an average day for a woman with administrative and leadership skills who has achieved where men have failed.

EW will be just fine.

[Chalco]

7. Amen. nt

[BlueMTexpat]

12. I think so too!

But it's always nice to hear from others who know exactly what it feels like.

We shall persist.

[The Wizard]

6. Only in America

can someone standing up to corporate corruption and crony capitalism be vilified by the people they're trying to stand for. This is indeed the dumbest country on Earth.
They unwittingly forge the chains of their own captivity. How does the rest of the world afford healthcare for all? They don't squander their resources on military waste.

[BlueMTexpat]

13. Your last is indeed

a major point.

Thanks for your post!

[spooky3]

64. They also use lots of methods to control health care costs.

For example, Japan has a list of reimbursement rates and private clinics etc must keep costs down to survive. We pay about twice what people in Germany, etc., pay for the same prescriptions. If Big Pharma couldn’t make money in Germany they wouldn’t sell drugs there. So there are huge profits being reaped in the US and we are all paying for it.

[BlueMTexpat]

90. Excellent point. eom

[disndat]

8. I was an early E.Warren Fan

But now I fear her nomination and candidacy could be a disaster. She could be crushed by Wall St., the big money people,
and her un-doable plans.

[safeinOhio]

9. If elected she would be

a disaster for and crush Wall St. and the big money people. That is why I support her. Will vote for who ever wins the primary.

[BlueMTexpat]

15. Same here! eom

[blm]

10. Nope. This time the anti-corruption candidate will win. Young voters and

Older voters alike will see that it is corruption of the financial industry that has rigged the system against them and the daily lives of their families. They have been showing up in the voting booths in 2018 and 2019,, even in red states.

[MasonDreams]

11. The big money "people" are the disaster that has already happened.

Wall street's greed is fueled by our blood, sweat, and tears. They have milked us dry. They bought so many politicians for so many years that they managed to make their bribery perfectly normal and legal.
We must make an effort to secure the blessings of Liberty instead of continue to be ruled by fear

[BlueMTexpat]

14. O, ye of

little faith!

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. When did being angry when one has a totally legit reason to be angry become a bad thing?

"OH, UR JUS MAD BECAUSE BILLIONAIRES DESTROYED UR COUNTRY."

Yeah, you're fucking well right I'm mad.

[BlueMTexpat]

17. This.

It's been happening for a long time. 45's Gawdawful MisAdministration has simply brought it to a crisis point.

[andym]

18. With Trump being the epitome of corruption, Warren is the perfect anti-Trump

the anti-corruption, anti Wall Street corruption old boy candidate. That said, my guess is that Biden will be the nominee and will choose Warren to balance the ticket with someone who is a darling of the left.

[melman]

19. Is this the same Charles Pierce that dismisses grown women as children on twitter?

Link to tweet

Just checking.

[mcar]

20. Why yes, yes it is

and his point is well taken.

[melman]

21. Ah

So infantilizing an adult woman is okay as long as it's a woman you don't like. Got it.

[mcar]

22. Tio Bernie

[melman]

23. Okay

Charles Pierce can be a patronizing shithead because someone else said Tio Bernie.


That makes so much sense.

[ehrnst]

46. Evasion is one way to try to save face,

when people just won't take the bait.

[Eliot Rosewater]

25. I refuse to address people who I know are dedicated to making SURE no Democrat is president

or anything else, so I will address you...

And I am so angry I wont say anything about the topic, what is your favorite rocknroll song?

[mcar]

26. I couldn't pick just one

I grew up in the 60s and 70s - there are so many to choose from.

I teach water aerobics a couple days a week. I've had the hardest time putting together playlists for my classes because there are so many good songs to exercise to. I did make 1 playlist all women, mostly from the 70s. My class loves it - they sing along!

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. I saw a "Stairway To Heaven" flashmob thing on FB from Germany I think, blew my mind

[mcar]

28. I'd love to see that

We just finished watching Ken Burns' Country Music on PBS. I've never been a country music fan (although I do like bluegrass), but this was so good, especially the early years.

Lots of toe tapping tunes.

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. Heard about that. I like Willie Nelson, Waylon and a few others.

Did you see "Rolling Thunder Review" Dylan, Scorcese film Netflix?

MUST SEE

[mcar]

30. I'll put it on the list

There's also a Ron Howard documentary about The Beatles that sounds good.

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. It is...

[mcar]

32. ...

[George II]

36. Here's the video:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?t=9&v=834035803624431

[mcar]

40. That was amazing!

Thank you, George.

[ehrnst]

45. Red herring, strawman and a false dillemma.

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2019, 09:43 AM - Edit history (1)

a twofer!

It must be very frustrating when people just refuse to defend the straw man you produce (You think demeaning women is OK) when a red herring (Charles Pierce once said something less than complimentary about a woman, so this statement isn't relevant) doesn't work.

Perhaps there's a school of thought that following up the red herring with a combination strawman with a false dillemma (you either agree with what I think about what Charles Pierce says, or you are OK with demeaning women) will provoke a the desired negative reaction, or derail discussion more effectively.

But that doesn't work when the other party doesn't comply or play along, does it? It's best to simply give up when what one is doing just isn't working.

[mcar]

54. Well stated

[melman]

59. Seems like that would be a threefer

Doesn't it?

[tonedevil]

63. Math is hard for some people. /nt

[ehrnst]

66. .....

Not as hard as reading is for others.

[George II]

75. Bazinga!

[tonedevil]

76. OK /nt

[ehrnst]

78. A non-answer is better than a self-aware silence for some.

Clearly.

[tonedevil]

85. OK / nt

[ehrnst]

86. Lol. OK. Thanks for illustrating it yet again.

FYI:

http://www.seekfind.net/Tactic_of_Needling.html#.XcdiG1dKiM8

[betsuni]

77. Heh!

[George II]

73. You got that right.

[ehrnst]

79. Bazinga!! (nt)

[ehrnst]

65. If you say so.

Self-awareness is a refreshing thing, isn't it?

[George II]

72. No, it was a "red herring with a combination strawman with a false dilemma" - that's a twofer.

[tonedevil]

74. OK /nt

[ehrnst]

80. OK /nt

[melman]

82. lol

3 = 2

okay. whatever you say.

[ehrnst]

83. Lol

Trashing your own post in an effort to dis someone who irritates you.... priceless.



FYI -

http://www.seekfind.net/Tactic_of_Needling.html#.XcdiG1dKiM8

[betsuni]

87. Oh, melman. Red herring is one, combination strawman and false dilemma is two.

Combination means two or more things mixed together, like chili powder. Chili powder is a combination of spices.

[melman]

88. lol betsuni

lol

[betsuni]

89. Your point?

[ehrnst]

91. ....

http://www.seekfind.net/Tactic_of_Needling.html#.XcdiG1dKiM8

There should be bingo cards.

[ehrnst]

84. ....

[George II]

37. He's referring to their vote against a resolution that passed overwhelmingly in the House...

...in a bipartisan vote:

BILL TITLE: Opposing efforts to delegitimize the State of Israel and the Global Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions Movement targeting Israel


DEMOCRATIC Yea 209 Nay 16 Pres 4 NV 5
REPUBLICAN Yea 189 Nay 1 Pres 0 NV 7
INDEPENDENT Yea 0 Nay 0 Pres 1 NV 0

TOTALS Yea 398 Nay 17 Pres 5 NV 12

O-C, Omar, and Tlaib were three of only 17 votes against that resolution.

No doubt since you're defending them on this vote that you agree with the anti-Semitic organization BDS, which has been calling for the boycott and sanctioning of Israel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_Divestment_and_Sanctions

Critics of BDS reject its charge that Israel is an apartheid state, asserting that in Israel (outside of the West Bank) "Jews and Arabs mix freely and increasingly live in the same neighborhoods...there is no imposed segregation." Critics have also argued that the BDS movement is antisemitic in the form its opposition to Zionism takes, drawing analogies to the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses and accusing it of promoting the delegitimization of Israel.

[melman]

38. No he's not

Link to tweet

[George II]

39. Yes he is. Read the tweet(s) in your post that is being referred to, not one you just pulled ....

....out of who knows where.

To refresh your memory, here is the tweet YOU posted and made your comment about. Are you now retracting that comment or are you going along with the support of the anti-Semitic BDS Movement?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=339884

Link to tweet

[melman]

41. lol

Try harder.

[George II]

42. Lol. I see you're ignoring the overall substance of your post. And you still haven't addressed....

....the House vote about which Pierce was tweeting. Why didn't you include that irrelevant tweet that you're now using in the post with the other tweets? Obviously it wasn't important enough at the time to include it, but now that the reason Pierce made his remark has been clearly explained, you're moving on to another.

Reminder, only 17 Representatives of BOTH parties combined voted against that resolution, including the three under discussion here. You're apparently happy with those Nay votes. If not, will you now renounce the anti-Semitic BDS Movement or continue to support them?

[melman]

43. What I'm ignoring

is your blatantly obvious attempt to bait me. So sorry.

Anyone reading the tweets in context can tell they're not about that vote.

They are about the supposed split in the "Squad' over Pressley endorsing Warren.





Done here.

[George II]

44. This was the tweet to which Mr. Pierce responded, it's included in YOUR post to which I responded:

Ayanna Pressley hasn't been consistently aligned with the rest of The Squad. For example in July AOC, Omar and Tlaib voted no on a resolution to condemn the civilian-led boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against Israel. Pressley voted yes.

That's not about the vote?

[ehrnst]

49. Some just double down when called out on their errors.

And think that somehow if they act like they "won" that other people will somehow see them as being "the winner, " when other people are seeing a situation like a pigeon playing chess.

[ehrnst]

47. ......

When one has nothing in one's hand, to accuse everyone at the table of cheating/bluffing then storm off is one alternative to folding. But it's not going to get one respect.

[melman]

57. lol

Keep trying.

[ehrnst]

68. Lol

Hit a nerve.

[MrsCoffee]

52. Baiting you?

That seems a little like projection.

No one is baiting you, unless by baiting you mean correcting since it appears you rushed in for a gotcha without understanding the context of what you were posting.

[melman]

56. Does it?

Does it seem like that? Thanks so much for your input but I understand it perfectly.

[ehrnst]

70. A non-answer for the BINGO.

[ehrnst]

69. More than a little...

[ehrnst]

50. Someone who supports certain candidates might want to tread carefully

with that line of accusations. That can have a way of coming back and biting one in the butt.

Just sayin.'

[melman]

55. lol

So sad.

[ehrnst]

71. It is sad

But not for the reasons that you're trying so hard to project.

[ehrnst]

48. Goalpost moved...

Not the same tweet...not the same vote...not the same topic...

Nice try.



Done here.

[melman]

58. LOL

LOL

[ehrnst]

67. LOL

Last edited Sat Nov 9, 2019, 07:52 PM - Edit history (1)

LOL

(See what I did there?)

[comradebillyboy]

24. As one vies for frontrunner status one is subject to increasingly

critical scrutiny. She's put out some proposals that are fairly controversial and now that she's a real contender she's going to be criticized for them. Let's see how well she deals with it; that's the big test.

[BlueMTexpat]

33. She'll do fine

with the proposals. It's the gratuitous crap that is so quickly and easily slung around by some that grates.

[comradebillyboy]

34. Dealing with the crap is a big part of the ftness test. She's done well

so far and I wish her the best.

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Thanks!

So do I, of course!

[ehrnst]

51. She's already dealt with them far better than some others with more experience

running for POTUS.

[still_one]

53. This is the same garbage that was done to Hillary, and in my view the sexist overtones are obvious

[BlueMTexpat]

60. Mine too!

I remember 2016 only too well!

[spooky3]

61. Agree. The "horse race" and sexist Tiger Beat stuff has got to go. nt

[YOHABLO]

81. I'm really tired of Corporate America choosing the Dem candidate.

They are dangling a carrot on the end of a stick called ''Trump another 4 years" They are afraid of an E.Warren Presidency.