"How can we get men to vote for a woman for President?"

[BeyondGeography]

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

1. Is Warren implying that Hillary Clinton was not tough or smart?

[BeyondGeography]

2. Clearly

[Turbineguy]

3. Well.....

She did get more votes than trump....

[Act_of_Reparation]

4. No, she wasn't.

Feeling some insecurities, are we?

[highplainsdem]

5. Judging by the replies to that tweet, other people heard it that way. And I saw a lot of similar

comments on Twitter whenever this reply of Warren's was mentioned.

[BeyondGeography]

6. So if female D's for Prez don't pay homage to HRC whenever they say something positive

about themselves they are guilty of slamming HRC? You're good with that?

[highplainsdem]

7. I'm pointing out that some people heard the answer that way. It would have taken Warren just

a few seconds to remind her audience that HRC won the popular vote in 2016.

She would have been applauded for doing that. And it would have given anyone hearing that question and wondering about the electability of a female candidate for president the strongest possible reminder that a woman CAN win.

[StevieM]

24. I refuse to focus on her popular vote win because it overshadows what James Comey did.

Had it not been for his illegitimate actions she would have destroyed Trump.

It is frightening the way we have normalized Comey's actions.

[BlueMTexpat]

13. Some people literally jump on

ANYTHING Warren says to take a dig at her.

Do we really want to play that game with any of our top Dem candidates?

Be careful what you wish for.

[highplainsdem]

18. I'm not "wishing for" anything or jumping on what Warren said. I'm pointing out that

some people did hear it as suggesting she was a better candidate than Clinton.

I think the problem was the specific wording she used.

The "how about we" wording.

Since that's normally used only when you're suggesting an alternative to what's been done before. "How about we try this?" as an alternative to an earlier approach that didn't work.

See what I mean?

I don't think Warren meant it that way, that she was tougher and smarter than HRC.

But the particular wording she used led some people to hear it that way.

And I really do think it would have helped Warren, a lot, to mention HRC at that moment.

She'd have gotten widespread applause if she'd said:

"We give them a tough, smart woman to vote for. Like we did in 2016, when Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. We give them a woman candidate who knows what needs to be done and who'll fight for it."

That last line would have stressed her own qualifications without leaving any possibility that she was suggesting HRC wasn't smart enough or tough enough.

And btw, I do know that to be grammatically correct, that should be "as we did in 2016," but "like we did" is very common in casual speech, and I don't know offhand if Warren is more likely to use "like" or "as" in that type of clause.

[thesquanderer]

8. She's explaining how she can appeal. It's not a knock on anyone else.

That alternate reading didn't even occur to me. But maybe people who were strong HRC supporters in the first place are more sensitive to finding things that could be perceived that way. My thought about it is that old saying about "it's not all about YOU." Not everything about a woman candidate is somehow about Hillary.

Occam's razor, Warren is talking about why you should vote for Warren. I doubt Hillary was anywhere in her consciousness when she was taking audience questions. She was simply promoting her own candidacy. Certainly not looking for ways to unnecessarily knock people who aren't even in the race. Besides, it would be stupid to knock someone when there are no doubt many fans of that person in your audience... and Warren is not stupid.

[aikoaiko]

10. ROFL

so much gluteus maximus discomfort.

[BlueMTexpat]

12. Oh FFS, Gothmog!

You know better than that.

I was - and remain - a staunch Hillary supporter and certainly did not take Warren's remark that way.

[spooky3]

14. Ditto nt

[Gothmog]

20. I am not the only one taking this comment that way

[highplainsdem]

21. See my reply 18 for why her specific wording made it sound that way.

[Gothmog]

25. I read your post and agreed with your analysis

[highplainsdem]

37. Thanks, Gothmog!

[BlueMTexpat]

23. Well, I am not the only one

getting teed off by those who are "taking this comment that way" either.

Isn't it silly to continue like this? Taking any opportunity to tear down a good candidate simply because you don't support her candidacy?

That's exactly what happened with Hillary in 2016 and I, for one, am STILL mightily pissed off about that.

I don't know what your gender is but I AM a woman. And I am VERY sensitive about the rampant sexism shown towards women candidates generally.

[highplainsdem]

36. Well, I'm a woman and a feminist, and I pointed out in my reply 18 (to your reply 13) exactly WHY

Warren's comment has been getting negative reactions.

It was because of a few words she used that are normally used only for contrast, to point out an alternative to what's been done previously. Her using those words did make it sound as if she felt a tough, smart female candidate, by which she obviously meant herself, would be a contrast to previous candidates. Which could easily be viewed as a dismissal of HRC (whom I supported).

See reply 18, which you didn't bother to respond to.

As I said there, I don't think Warren INTENDED to give that impression. But it was unfortunate wording on her part, and I believe it's unfair of you to accuse people of sexism or deride them in other ways just because the way Warren phrased her remark did make it sound as though she thought she was smarter and tougher than previous candidates.

[BlueMTexpat]

38. You are almost always quick to dis

Warren, so I am not generally rising to your bait.

[Act_of_Reparation]

29. Well if more than one person does a thing, it can't be wrong.

[betsuni]

32. I did too. Maybe she doesn't consider Hillary tough and smart so it didn't occur to her.

Otherwise, when she heard herself say it she would've added something else. And it's not like this was an out-of-the-blue question. Naturally she had an idea of what she would say about the topic.

Thing is, for many people who know Hillary's life, tough and smart are the first things that come to mind. In August of 2016, the LA Times asked their readers to describe Hillary. Top pro-Clinton remarks were "qualified" and "experienced" -- referring to the race -- but next were "smart" and "strong."

[Gothmog]

33. Hillary Clinton is very tough and very smart

[PhoenixDem]

43. I saw it as a dig at HRC as well. n/t

[Skya Rhen]

17. It sounds that way to me. Words matter.

[Gothmog]

31. Yes words matter

[Iggo]

30. Oh good gawd, that's enough.

[BlueMTexpat]

39. It does

get old.

[louseb]

9. Smart answer nevertheless

[left-of-center2012]

11. Is this sexist?

[Fresh_Start]

15. only thing I think might work, is promising legislation to free the nipple

so that they can expect to see more boob-age in the future

and that makes me very sad

[LAS14]

16. I've seen statistics that suggest that women are more reluctant than men to vote for women.

Maybe it's in some subset of the population, but I've seen it more than once.

[BannonsLiver]

34. That's how it is in my house

I like Warren and Harris but my wife is still so shaken from 2016 she doesn’t believe the country will vote for a woman anytime soon. She’s not open to any of the women. I’ll probably vote for Warren in my states primary on March 3. She’s from my hometown and I like her energy, as well as many of her policies. I also have a lot of affection for Biden, so he is a solid No. 2 with me.

[cwydro]

19. Sadly, there are many women who are reluctant to vote for a woman.

Hard to believe, but true.

[TidalWave46]

22. No matter how people talk shit about this or make it about something it isn't....

This is a serious issue. We are dealing with it and I think we are about to see our first generation of women, who as a whole, go about things in a different way. Historically, both boys and girls have been taught from a young age that there is a proper way to behave. While it is fair to neither it is has been flat out oppressive toward women. The gist of it is that women must be more tolerant and submissive while men must be more dominate and assertive.

Smile when you feel it, Senator Warren.

[guillaumeb]

26. Recommended.

Warren is aware that HRC received more votes than Trump, but she is also aware of the persistent misogyny in the US.

[demosincebirth]

27. Being a moderate would help

[evertonfc]

28. sadly, in some cases, you cant

It's men.who torpedoed Clinton in 2016 if you look at exit polling. We just need to perform a few points better and we will win big. Biden will do that. Warren won't.

[myohmy2]

35. that's actually...

...a very good question...

...I'd suggest, by on-job experience...

...a hypothetical situation:

...Bernie and Elizabeth are very close politically...they can live with each others positions...

...let's say Bernie ran as President and Elizabeth ran as Vice President on the same ticket...let's say they win the White House...

...what are the odds of Bernie surviving two terms as President?


...I voted for Hillary and I'm convinced she would have made an excellent President...

...men, voting for a woman for President, we have nothing to fear but fear itself...

[dansolo]

40. What about the women who voted for Trump?

It seems like men aren't the only problem?

[betsuni]

41. "The weak effects of gender consciousness are not surprising. Unlike racial solidarity among

African Americans or racial attitudes among whites, gender consciousness has not typically been a substantial force in modern American politic behavior. As political scientists Nancy Burns and Donald Kinder have written, 'The social organization of gender emphasizes intimacy between men and women; the social organization emphasizes separation between whites and blacks. Separation fosters solidarity among African Americans. Integration impairs solidarity among women."

From "Identity Crisis"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. This is not a great answer.

[mcar]

44. We gave them a strong woman to vote for