Sanders Has Denounced Coup, But Biden, Warren, and Buttigieg So Far Silent on Overthrow

[Uncle Joe]

of Bolivia's Morales

In the nearly three days since Bolivia's elected President Evo Morales was deposed in a military coup, leading 2020 Democratic presidential candidates Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Pete Buttigieg have not said a word about the assault on democracy that U.S. President Donald Trump has enthusiastically endorsed.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) remains the only 2020 Democratic presidential contender to condemn Morales' ouster, which followed weeks of violent right-wing protests against the results of Bolivia's October presidential election.

"I am very concerned about what appears to be a coup in Bolivia, where the military, after weeks of political unrest, intervened to remove President Evo Morales," Sanders tweeted Monday. "The U.S. must call for an end to violence and support Bolivia's democratic institutions."

(snip)

"This is EXACTLY the time, when there is a blatant coup in Bolivia, that we need to hear from the presidential candidates," Medea Benjamin, co-founder of anti-war group CodePink, wrote in an email to Common Dreams. "Why is Bernie Sanders the only one who has spoken out, expressing his concern about the military pushing Evo Morales out? Don't the other candidates have a position about a destabilizing, right-wing takeover of a neighboring country? We need to hear from them."

(snip)

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/13/sanders-has-denounced-coup-biden-warren-and-buttigieg-so-far-silent-overthrow

[LakeArenal]

1. It's really is a moot point (to me)

No matter which Dem wins, Pukes and dump will call it a coup and up to 40% of Americans will buy it.

[Uncle Joe]

5. Trump is applauding the coup, he's not against it. n/t

[LakeArenal]

18. Well he's an idiot. He wants to think of it as a coup.

[George II]

2. Perhaps because it wasn't a "coup" and Morales wasn't "overthrown". We went through this...

....a day or two ago.

Remember, Morales pulled what might be considered a "coup" by ignoring Bolivia's two-term limit for it's President when he ran a third and fourth time.

[brooklynite]

3. But Maduro and Cuba call it a Coup: isn't that enough?

[DetlefK]

6. The same Maduro who created a parallel parliament in Venezuela to neuter the real one?

The same Maduro who "won" amid allegations of manipulated voting-machines that went uninvestigated?

[brooklynite]

7. And the same Cuba that is still waiting for its first fair election.

[George II]

8. Did you forget this:

?

Venezuela and Cuba, two countries with questionable leadership.

[Uncle Joe]

11. This was a military coup no matter how you slice and dice it.

(snip)


The Trump administration has not been quiet about its desire for the removal of Bolivia’s socialist President Evo Morales, who resigned Sunday under threat from the nation’s military, police forces, and violent right-wing protesters.

Hours before Morales resigned in a televised address, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeted his support for the findings of the U.S.-dominated Organization of American States (OAS), which alleged Morales’ victory in the October presidential election was riddled with fraud. Pompeo also echoed OAS’ call for new elections, a demand Morales accepted shortly before he was forced aside.

(snip)

Guillaume Long, senior policy analyst Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) and co-author of recent analysis of the October election, disputed the OAS findings in a statement last week, arguing “there is simply no statistical or evidentiary basis to dispute the vote count results showing that Evo Morales won in the first round.”

(snip)

“In the parlance of American empire,” Cohen said, “a military coup is considered an expression of democracy.”

(snip)


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/11/in-statement-that-reads-like-a-chilling-warning-of-more-coups-to-come-trump-celebrates-military-coup-in-bolivia/

[The Valley Below]

4. Reflects badly on BS that he backs a dictator who was actively try to steal an illegitimate election

He shows no respect for Bolivia's democratic institutions.

Disqualifying IMO.

[HerbChestnut]

9. Bernie sneezed this morning.

Disqualifying.

[The Valley Below]

10. You equate support for the theft of an election with a sneeze?

LOL. Sure pal.

[HerbChestnut]

13. If I had a nickel for every time someone on this board said something Bernie did was disqualifying..

I'd have to pay a wealth tax after he gets elected.

[The Valley Below]

15. That should make you ponder, methinks.

Good grief. We condemn stolen elections except when it is done by "democratic" socialists?

Come on man!

[HerbChestnut]

23. Depends on whether you think the election was stolen.

There are conflicting reports from various credible organizations. Here's a snippet from Wikipedia (emphasis mine):

On October 20, 2019, Morales won 47.1% of the vote in the first round of the 2019 Bolivian general election. The results were immediately disputed and led to widespread protests across the country. On November 9, 2019 the Organization of American States (OAS) published a preliminary report that there were "clear manipulations" including physical records with alterations and forged signatures, and evidence of wide-scale data manipulation. The next day Morales announced that fresh elections would take place.[263][264] The police joined the protests against Morales[265] and on November 10 according to The New York Times: "the commander of Bolivia's armed forces, Gen. Williams Kaliman, said the military chiefs believed he should step down to restore 'peace and stability and for the good of our Bolivia.'"[266][267] On November 12 Morales flew to Mexico and accepted asylum there.[268] Morales, along with the governments of Mexico, Cuba, Nicaragua and the Nicolás Maduro-led disputed government of Venezuela, maintain that his removal was a coup.[269][270][271][272]

A report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR) criticized the OAS findings, claiming that the OAS "nor any other other party has demonstrated that there were widespread or systematic irregularities in the elections," and concluded that "the results... of the vote count are consistent with a final projected result of Morales winning the election outright with a more than 10 percentage point victory."[273]

[The Valley Below]

27. LOL. The far-left CEPR???

The group that's fully in the tank for Maduro in Venezuela is your counter-source to all the credible reports that show Morales was actively trying to steal the election???

Come on man!

[George II]

17. I believe that expression was first used BY a Sanders supporter.

[LanternWaste]

19. Then you fail satire.

The 'disqualifying' routine was initiated by a BS supporter who laid that charge at every benign action of the front-runner.

In the here and now, as both satire and fun, it's being returned in kind as illustration to how absurd the charge is.

[HerbChestnut]

25. I've only seen it used against Bernie by supporters of other candidates.

I also don't go into threads supporting other candidates just to be cynical.

[George II]

12. He did?

[HerbChestnut]

14. Three times. Bernie's a triple sneezer.

[TidalWave46]

16. The electorate is just clamoring for more statements. NT

[Uncle Joe]

20. I believe some of them are, some would just like to ignore it

as was the case with the military coup in Honduras which became so bad parents would send their children across a dangerous journey hundreds of miles by themselves toward the U.S. to escape the rampant violence and corruption from the aftermath.

[TidalWave46]

30. "I believe some of them are"

No, they aren't. Just as you weren't and aren't.

[BannonsLiver]

37. What

You don’t think Morales plight won’t be a huge deciding factor in the swing states next fall?!?!

[TidalWave46]

38. I'm standing down! Standing down!

Just like how Uncle Joe has been standing down on this topic.



https://www.google.com/search?q=uncle+joe+bolivia&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[LanternWaste]

21. He should tell the Bolivian people to "be more respectful so they don't get shot..."

[George II]

26. Bazinga! (...you left out "in the back of the head"...)

[beastie boy]

22. When the Organization of American States openly questions the results of the election,

calling the events in Bolivia a "coup" and denouncing it is premature at best.

It speaks well of those politicians who withhold judgement, in favor or against, on a matter that is not as clear cut as Trump and Sanders would like to portray it.

[Uncle Joe]

24. To my knowledge the OAS has never called for a military coup as a solution

to the question of the elections' viability.

Trump knows exactly what it was, a military coup and he's all the happier for it.

[beastie boy]

28. To my knowledge, OAS didn't call for Morales to leave the country either.

And a call to step down before the next election is held does not exactly fit the definition of a military coup.

But who am I to question your expertise in what goes on in Trump's mind?

[Uncle Joe]

31. What happened in Bolivia was a military coup.

On Sunday the head of Bolivia’s military called on Evo Morales to resign from the presidency. Minutes later Morales was on a plane to Cochabamba where he did just that. These facts leave little doubt that what happened in Bolivia this weekend was a military coup, the first such event in Latin America since the 2009 military coup against Honduran president, Manuel Zelaya. (The 2012 and 2016 impeachments of Paraguay’s Fernando Lugo and Brazil’s Dilma Rousseff are widely viewed as “parliamentary coups.”)

(snip)

For Zibechi, Gutiérrez, and other leftists, popular movements’ calls for Morales to resign prove his fall was not a coup. This view, however, ignores the critical timeline by which Morales resigned only after he was pressured to do so by the military. Unlike all other actors in Bolivia, when the military “suggested” Morales leave office he had no choice but to say yes, or risk tremendous violence. Unfortunately, events of the last several days suggest that the coup will not end the violence and chaos gripping Bolivia.

Since Morales resigned many MAS elected officials have also resigned their posts, claiming that they are doing so for fear of their own and their families’ safety. Video shows Morales’ house being ransacked on Sunday and chilling instances of police abuse of power in the last several days. On Tuesday night, the far right vice president of Bolivia’s Senate swore herself in as president, to a nearly empty legislative chamber. MAS senators boycotted the proceedings, with at least some saying they did so for fear of their safety.

Whatever the broad array of forces that contributed to Morales’ downfall, the fact that the military pushed him out has emboldened the worst elements of Bolivian society. It may also embolden popular movements to strike back, as has occurred so often in Bolivia’s history. Indeed, predominantly Indigenous protesters in El Alto, La Paz, and elsewhere are in the streets denouncing the burning of the Indigenous wiphala flag and growing military repression of the populace. Some protesters are now calling for civil war.

(snip)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/13/morales-bolivia-military-coup

[beastie boy]

34. Nice of you to inform me of Mr. Hetland, published in the Opinions section of the Guardian.

For the record, I have no opinion on the matter. If you read my OP, I am not debating whether there was a military coup in Bolivia or not, so I am afraid you are wasting your time if you want to argue this point with me.

What I was commenting on was the wisdom of keeping quiet in the face of opinions flying all over the place.

[PhoenixDem]

29. There was no coup -- it was a popular uprising

besides, it is Bolivia's internal matter. Diplomatic norms dictate that one doesn't comment on internal politics of another country.

[MarcA]

33. In the eyes of $$$ if the winner is a "Socialist" then it was stolen

but if the Coup was for $$$ then it was the will of the People, regardless
of what occurred.

[Renew Deal]

35. Did Morales respect Bolivia's "democratic institutions?"

I just don't think this is important enough for most American's to care.

[Uncle Joe]

36. Military coups do not respect any democratic institutions, period.

That's what nations constitutions are supposed to be about if there are major disagreements with the rule of an elected leader.

Whether you agree with Morales or not The Supreme Court in Bolivia ruled in his favor in regards to running again, he also had agreed to a recount just before the head of their military gave him "an offer he couldn't refuse."

Most Americans haven't cared for over a century what happens in regards to Central and South America but that number doesn't include vested corporate and oligarch interests.

All She Wants to Do Is Dance
Don Henley

They're pickin' up the prisoners
And puttin 'em in a pen
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
Rebels been rebels
Since I don't know when
And all she wants to do is dance

Molotov cocktail, the local drink
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
They mix 'em up right
In the kitchen sink
And all she wants to do is dance

Crazy people walkin' round with blood in their eyes
And all she wants to do is dance, dance, dance
Wild-eyed pistols wavers who ain't afraid to die
And all she wants to do is
And all she wants to do is dance
And make romance
She can't feel the heat
Comin' off the street
She wants to party
She wants to get down
All she wants to do is
All she wants to do is dance

Well the government bugged the men's room
In the local disco lounge
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
To keep the boys from sellin'
All the weapons they could scrounge
And all she wants to do is dance

Yeah, but that don't keep the boys from makin' a buck or two
And all she wants to do is dance, dance
The still can sell the army
All the drugs that they can do
And all she wants to do is
All she wants to do is dance
And make romance

Well we barely make the airport
For the last plane out
As we taxied down the runway
I could hear the people shout
They said, "don't come back here Yankee"
But if I ever do
I'll bring more money
'Cause all she wants to do is dance
And make romance
Never mind the heat
Comin' off the street
She wants to party
She wants to get down
All she wants to do is
All she wants to do is dance
And make romance
All she wants to do is dance

Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Danny Kortchmar
All She Wants to Do Is Dance lyrics © Warner Chappell Music, Inc

[ehrnst]

39. I see Jacobin has seized on this to trash Warren specifically,

clearly because she's the biggest threat to his chances. They feel a need to find and magnify every possible difference from Sanders, no matter how inconsequencial policywise.

The other Bernie fanzines, like Commondreams, have been less blatant about their prime target.

I find it interesting that you are now very, very concerned about "who said it first," after scolding others whenever they point that one of Bernie's amazing announcements of breathtaking progressive ideas were first said or proposed by others.

[tritsofme]

40. I'm sure the other candidates aren't interested in shaming themselves in praise of a dictator

[Uncle Joe]

41. Here is the definition of dictator.

Definition of dictator
1a: a person granted absolute emergency power
especially, history : one appointed by the senate (see SENATE sense 1a) of ancient Rome
b: one holding complete autocratic control : a person with unlimited governmental power
c: one ruling in an absolute (see ABSOLUTE sense 2) and often oppressive way
fascist dictators

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictator

Whether you agree with Evo Morales policies and/or actions as a democratically elected President of Bolivia (and I don't agree with all of them,) he was not a dictator.

He never tried to rule with unlimited power.

If Morales had been a ruthless dictator just caring about his own ambitions at the expense of the Bolivian People, Trump would've supported him instead of supporting the military coup which removed him from power, meanwhile the new "President" took power without even having enough seats in their Congress to vote on it.

Here is a little timeline information about what happened in Bolivia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Bolivian_protests

and here is more biography on the man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales

[Blue_true]

42. Morales seemed to be trying to go beyond what the country's constitution allowed.

And there is credible evidence that he may have cheated on the most recent election. Is it smart for Bernie to back a guy who may have been trying to become a dictator in the mode of Chavez, Mauduro(so?) and Ortega?