Is this true.. that Booker said this about Hillary in the debate?

[Cha]

Link to tweet

Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748)

https://www.thenation.com/article/wisconsins-voter-id-law-suppressed-200000-votes-trump-won-by-23000/

[zaj]

1. Dunno, but both can be true

[Cha]

2. I don't think so.. There was voter suppression

in Wisconsin.. more than the votes trump got.

[zaj]

7. Democrats tend to nominate smart, wonky experts...

And we lose because campaigning is about storytelling, not policy.

Hillary, Gore, Kerry, and Dukakis were weak candidates even though they would have all made great presidents.

Obama and Bill knew how to win elections because they are powerful speakers. They were great storytellers.

That matters enormously.

I believe Elizabeth Warren would have won in 2016 even with the same voter supression. She has that campaign ability. Hillary could have also overcome voter supression if she had different strengths. But she didn't.

That's what I think Booker is acknowledging.

I think it's important to recognize that campaigning is a powerful and necessary leadership skill we should nominate people who excel at that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. I think that's a fair analysis; no question Elizabeth would have trounced tRumpty Dumbty had she run

Elizabeth maybe the most competent Democratic candidate who has ever run for president.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[StevieM]

10. We ran the candidate who won the nomination because she dominated her opponents in the primary

among African-American voters.

There is no evidence that a different Democrat, other than President Obama, would have done better.

[zaj]

12. No, but we have a lot of evidence that powerful storytelling matters

[StevieM]

14. Apparently her storytelling was powerful enough that she dominated her opponents in the primary.

Admittedly, Vladimir Putin did some storytelling of his own, all of it dishonest. But he would have done that to any Democrat.

In the end, she did about as well as John Kerry in 2004 in states that have not introduced voter suppression methods since then.

[Jewls2]

13. I think that is a valid point. "other than President Obama".

We are looking at black voter turn out compared to 2008 and 2012. Then we state HRC didn't get the same turn out. But, HRC was well liked in the black community and respected. We saw that too.

[StevieM]

16. Shhh...it's a secret.

Hilary's critics, who are mostly white, love to tell this story about how she wasn't well-liked by black voters.

It isn't based on the evidence, just the incredible desire to belittle her.

[Jewls2]

17. Oh, with just about everything HRC. For sure.

[Jewls2]

3. I got the impression he was saying the black vote was down in Wisc.

I think he stated 2016, not HRC. Am I wrong? Yes that would be the same, but I do not think he was going after HRC but making a valid point to what he was arguing, the bigger point of his comment. Not to go after HRC. But provide an example of what he was arguing.

[Cha]

5. That's not the way most are

looking at this on the twitter thread.. they're not happy with how he framed it.

'Course they could all be wrong, too.

[Jewls2]

9. During this campaign we have seen an alignment with Biden/Obama/HRC.

If any of our other strong, devoted, solid democrats argue anything that infringes in these areas, then Biden supporters feel it is a direct attack and they go after that candidate. I have watched it repeatedly over these months. Obama, HRC, Pelosi and Biden can all speak out, arguing their point of view, which could be seen as a jab against other candidates, and that is cheered. Not so much the other way around.

Booker was making a point. It was a valid point, whether one agrees or not. He is a Democrat, a very solid, trustworthy Democrat. I am not going to jump in the game attacking, just because he questioned a fav candidate.

So yes, I agree. I am sure there are many that have issue. I am not one of them.

I liked hearing from Obama, HRC and Pelosi on not swinging too far left and though I disagree with an element, I appreciated them speaking up. I feel the same about Booker.

Booker was solid last night.

[dewsgirl]

4. We lost the election because the Russian interfered on several

fronts. I like Corey Booker, but he is wrong.

[Cha]

6. Yes, there are many documented facts of

why trump was rigged in.. and nothing to do with Hillary not "energizing African Americans in Wisconsin".. but thanks, Booker.

[Celerity]

19. NYT : Many in Milwaukee Neighborhood Didn't Vote -- and Don't Regret It

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html

MILWAUKEE — Four barbers and a firefighter were pondering their future under a Trump presidency at the Upper Cutz barbershop last week.

“We got to figure this out,” said Cedric Fleming, one of the barbers. “We got a gangster in the chair now,” he said, referring to President-elect Donald J. Trump.They admitted that they could not complain too much: Only two of them had voted. But there were no regrets. “I don’t feel bad,” Mr. Fleming said, trimming a mustache. “Milwaukee is tired. Both of them were terrible. They never do anything for us anyway.”

Wisconsin, a state that Hillary Clinton had assumed she would win, historically boasts one of the nation’s highest rates of voter participation; this year’s 68.3 percent turnout was the fifth best among the 50 states. But by local standards, it was a disappointment, the lowest turnout in 16 years. And those no-shows were important. Mr. Trump won the state by just 27,000 voters.

Milwaukee’s lowest-income neighborhoods offer one explanation for the turnout figures. Of the city’s 15 council districts, the decline in turnout from 2012 to 2016 in the five poorest was consistently much greater than the drop seen in more prosperous areas — accounting for half of the overall decline in turnout citywide.

The biggest drop was here in District 15, a stretch of fading wooden homes, sandwich shops and fast-food restaurants that is 84 percent black. In this district, voter turnout declined by 19.5 percent from 2012 figures, according to Neil Albrecht, executive director of the City of Milwaukee Election Commission. It is home to some of Milwaukee’s poorest residents and, according to a 2016 documentary, “Milwaukee 53206,” has one of the nation’s highest per-capita incarceration rates.

At Upper Cutz, a bustling barbershop in a green-trimmed wooden house, talk of politics inevitably comes back to one man: Barack Obama. Mr. Obama’s elections infused many here with a feeling of connection to national politics they had never before experienced. But their lives have not gotten appreciably better, and sourness has set in.


snip




and when we did vote there was also this occurring (especially with A-A men, of whom around 13% voted for Rump, versus only 4% of A-A women)...



Mostly black neighborhoods voted more Republican in 2016 than in 2012

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/25/mostly-black-neighborhoods-voted-more-republican-in-2016-than-in-2012/

snip




A few things jump out. First: The most heavily white neighborhoods voted much more heavily Republican in 2016 than in 2012 (the dark red line shoots up past the light-red one). Second, the most heavily black neighborhoods voted less heavily Democratic last year than four years ago. (We’ll come back to this, obviously.) Third, Hispanic neighborhoods voted for Republicans less than in 2012.

The net effect of those shifts can be measured by comparing the margin between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney in 2012 with the Trump-Clinton margin in each neighborhood last year. In heavily white neighborhoods, a big shift to the Republicans. In mostly Hispanic neighborhoods, generally more support for the Democrat, except in the most dense places (although, as the chart on the right makes clear, the sample size for those is very small and therefore more subject to volatility).

[StevieM]

8. It scares me that people don't understand how significant James Comey was.

He dominated that election from start to finish.

Russia did damage with their lies and their crimes, but nothing compared to Comey IMO.

[Jewls2]

11. There are a lot of reasons HRC lost that had nothing to do with her. I think HRC ran one of the

best campaigns, tight and solid and efficient, that we have ever had. A lot of factors were thrown at her. If just one had not been, out of all of them, then she would have won. I grew to admire HRC and truly respect that woman. I love that she still boldly speaks out. I am so sad and disappointed she did not win. Sickened. She was wronged.

That being said, I believe i have read factual information black vote did not come out the same as with Obama. That would have been fine, if Comey hadn't allowed the email crap. Or oppression and suppression wasn't happening. Or Russia didn't have their hand in it. Or Sanders hadn't caused so much problems during the primary right up to the convention.

[StevieM]

18. Excellent post.

I would argue that the better comparison to look at is how well she did with black voters when compared to John Kerry in 2004 in states that have not instituted voter suppression methods since then.

But, yeah, the media has fallen in love with this "badly run campaign" narrative, and I don't think the evidence supports it. But people who see it differently are not usually allowed on the airwaves, and when they occasionally are they are mocked and yelled at.

[Jewls2]

28. Yep. I agree.

[TidalWave46]

15. And the total black population in Wisconsin is 370,375.

That included people under 18.

Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016

The black population broke 92% for Clinton.

The problem in Wisconsin is extremely clear. White men. They went 59% for Trump.

Lots more went into this than Booker thinks. Sorry he views it as that simple. He is a man with great depth.

[George II]

20. Why are so many of OUR candidates obsessed with Hillary Clinton?

[Cha]

27. Why couldn't Booker talk about the Voter Suppression in

Wisconsin, too.. as well as Georgia.

Would it have killed him to talk about what Scott Walker did to mostly Wisconsin Black Voters by suppressing their votes any which way they could?

And, what of those like his girlfriend, Rosario Dawson.. a Stein voter who believed Stein's LIES that Hillary and trump were the same? That had a whole hell of lot to do with Wisconsin..

Link to tweet

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

[Jewls2]

29. Because for Booker, the bigger conversation was showing the difference between himself and Biden

And pulling out the black voter. That is what his discussion was. He is allowed, as did Biden and he often does in many ways with his experiences in life and VP ect...

Right or wrong, agree or not, this is what a debate is about, discussing their strengths and hopefully, not too harshly others weakness. But there will be comparisons.

[Cha]

31. Oh yeah.. "..Booker is allowed.. " of course. He

just looks petty saying Hillary didn't energized Black Voters.

[Jewls2]

32. That is not what he said. I do not think he looked petty, but argued a point.

The purpose of the debate.

[Cha]

35. That's the quote in the OP.. and that is petty.. and not true..

Link to tweet

[BlueMTexpat]

21. Whatever else happened, there were

also a lot of voters in both WI and MI who voted third party - or who didn't vote at all.

Voter suppression + decades of RW memes against HRC + those like Sarandon, Stein & their ilk + Russian bots to smear Hillary at every possible instance + Comey = the disaster in 2016.

But yes, blame Hillary and black voters!

If Booker actually believes this, he needs his head examined!

[Cha]

30. Exactly, BlueMT! I just posted about Stein's LIES in Wisconsin

being a big factor in the loss there.

Link to tweet

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

Excellent summary of the disaster of 2016.. plus Russia's hacking interference and Cambridge Analytica thrown in.. not to mention the ******* US m$m.. covering for trump and … ".. but her emails.." 24/7.

[BlueMTexpat]

36. The GOP

the party of seeing NOTHING wrong with one of their own even when it is clearly evident for ALL to see.

They literally circle the wagons and deny, deny, deny.

[Skittles]

22. what motivation did they need

the most accomplished person EVER to run for president running against a racist, fascist BUFFOON

[zentrum]

23. Lots of research shows this is so.

Many had enthusuasm for her. But many did not and stayed home.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. Very true... no reason to pretend otherwise.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cha]

38. yeah, with all the brainwashed hate thrown at her 24/7 from

all sides.. it's a bloody wonder Hillary got 66 Million Votes.

[betsuni]

24. "According to an analyses of voter turnout data by the political scientist Bernard Fraga

and colleagues, black turnout declined by 5 points nationally and even more in certain swing states. Black turnout decreased by over 12 percentage points in Michigan and Wisconsin, for example. Many, including Clinton herself, attributed this voter decrease to strict voter identification laws. ... A more important explanation for the drop in African American turnout had to do with Obama and Clinton themselves. When Obama ran in 2008 and 2012, black turnout was over 5 percentage points higher than it had been in any election on record. Obama's two campaigns confirmed research showing that African Americans' in-group identity -- their identification with blacks as a group -- impacts how they think and act in politics. Indeed, Barack Obama's extraordinary black support was concentrated among African Americans who expressed the most solidarity with other blacks. It was arguably unrealistic to expect similar levels of black turnout for a white Democratic candidate in 2016. That does not mean that Clinton was unpopular among African Americans. They were crucial to her victory in the Democratic primary, and through 2016, an average of 73 percent rated her favorably in both Gallup and YouGov polls."

Then there was the targeted propaganda accusing Clinton of racism. "Some black celebrities and public intellectuals even refused to vote for Clinton, whom they considered the lesser of two evils. ... The Trump campaign sought to capitalize on this controversy by repeatedly calling Clinton 'a bigot,' reminding black voters that Clinton had once implied that black youths were 'super predators,' claiming that Democratic politicians had let down the African American community, and accusing Clinton of treating Barack Obama with 'terrible disrespect' in their 2008 presidential debates. This was all in addition to falsely accusing Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign of starting the lie that Obama was not born in the United States."

From "Identity Crisis, The 2016 Presidential Campaign and the Battle for the Meaning of America"

Our next nominee will also be accused of racism with the goal of depressing the black vote. Kamala Harris already has a whole list of conspiracy theories about how she wants black people in jail.

[Cha]

37. Thanks for that,

betsuni.

The propaganda, gaslighting, and the LIES from stein, trump, and the endless anti-Hillary propaganda on m$m helped do her in.. in addition to Comey and every other bloody thing.

I would think after 4 years of the psycho that everyone with a brain will be about as Woke as you can be come election day 2020.

[delisen]

25. Is that how Scott Walker became Gov in 2011? The Dem just did not energize

voters and charming ole Scott Walker was such a talented speechmaker he whipped voters into a frenzy and not only became Gov in 2011 but went on to win a recall election and a second term and then almost a third term (long after it had become obvious he was not doing anything for Wisconsin).

One thousand Democratic seats were lost to Republicans roughly from 2009 to 2014? Is it not time to stop feeding ourselves myths and worse, believing our mythologies.

In Wisconsin Walker deftly divided the unions-he dumped on the public unions -the teachers and the government workers and won the support of the private enterprise unions.

The fact is: We were out-organized by the Republican Party and its billionaire fundamentalists, Bigly.

In 2007 we had a relatively strong party. It was not in debt---but then our party weakened and we had lost crucial seats throughout the country. By 2016 the Party was 2 million in debt and had lost critical infrastructure seats all over the country. State legislatures, Governorships, Secretary of State offices.....(they choose the voting machines).

Gore was a great candidates was Kerry; so was H Clinton---but a party has to be organized to win in every election cycle.

Gore and Clinton won-maybe Kerry did also.

Remember when Republicans were whining about Saul Alinsky ---I guess they were also reading his books and taking lessons.

They planned their work, they worked their plan in the off years---and not just presidential election years. (...and because the are who they are who they are, they also cheated and suppressed votes of those who were going to vote for their opponents.







.......

[Gothmog]

26. I really doubt that Booker will make the next debate