AOC: "In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are."

[Otto Lidenbrock]

Ocasio-Cortez isn’t the first politician to become a cultural sensation, but she may be the first to do so at the very beginning of her career, when she is occupying the lowest rung of political power. Her main project going forward may be this: harnessing her immense star power and the legion of young lefties who see her as their avatar, not just to push the Democratic Party away from an obsession with its most moderate members but also to make the stuff of government, like congressional committee hearings and neighborhood town halls, into must-see TV. She said the Congressional Progressive Caucus should start kicking people out if they stray too far from the party line. Other caucuses within the Democratic Party in Congress require applications, Ocasio-Cortez pointed out. But “they let anybody who the cat dragged in call themselves a progressive. There’s no standard,” she said.

The same goes for the party as a whole: “Democrats can be too big of a tent.”

It is comments like that that kept Ocasio-Cortez and the rest of the Democratic Party from reaching any kind of meaningful détente. I asked her what she thought her role would be as a member of Congress during, for instance, a Joe Biden presidency. “Oh God,” she said with a groan. “In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are.”

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/01/aoc-first-year-in-washington.html

It's a bizarre comment given Joe has been a democrat since 1969, was the AOC of his era (elected to the senate at age 30), was ranked a solid liberal by accounts of his senate votes through the years and more importantly in my opinion, in other countries like the UK which has multiple parties having parliamentary seats, it is still between two parties for being the party in government. So for that reason having a big tent is important.

[janterry]

1. isn't it the truth?

In other countries, there are more than two parties. There is a whole range to the 'left' and 'right'.

In our country, there are simply two 'big' choices. No third party has been particularly meaningful.

I don't know why the comment is 'bizarre.'

[Otto Lidenbrock]

10. Because countries like that still have dominance between two major parties

Multiple parties may mean people vote their conscious locally but nationally vote for one of two major parties. Fringe parties can hold local legislative offices but have extremely little influence nationally.

If AOC and Biden were British I am confident they'd be in the same party because the Green Party (left) and the Liberal Democrats (center) have no relevance nationally. If they were Canadian I am confident they'd have been in Trudeau's corner because while there was a great candidate for the more progressive party than Trudeau's, only Trudeau could have stopped a right wing victory.

[janterry]

12. interesting

ty

[bigbrother05]

92. You left out the Labor Party that was a top 2 party before the Lib Dems of Blaire

While most Parliament Systems have 2 strong parties, they rarely have over 35%-40% of the seats so have affiliated groups they work with.

For a clear view of how important those smaller factions are, look at Israel who is going to a 3rd General Election after two failures to form a government.

[mathematic]

100. Tony Blair was the longest serving Labour PM

There are two main parties that have ruled the UK over the last 100 years. Conservatives (tories) and Labour. Those are still the two main parties today. Not sure where you're getting this idea that Blair was a lib dem or that the lib dems have political power.

[bigbrother05]

115. I stand corrected, but smaller parties often fill the numbers to reach a majority

Germany is a good example of multiple parties with standing coalitions.

[Hortensis]

128. Yup.

[Demsrule86]

131. Smaller parties guarantee minority rule and make politically advantageous deals for themselves

without regard to the benefits for the people...Brexit is a good example.

[treestar]

137. And AOC's party would have no influence

without "selling out" and making a coalition with Biden's party.

[Huin]

79. The comment is strange

It's like a stranger coming to someone's door, finding it unlocked and entering; and when meeting the homeowner face to face, saying "what are you doing here?"

[George II]

129. This isn't "other countries", and if she has a problem with OUR Democratic Party there are options..

....but one of those options is not bashing our party OR our front running candidate. If she doesn't like it she can go somewhere else.

And groan all you want Ms. Representative, that's not going to hurt Biden's candidacy nor is it going to help her candidate's prospects.

[Gothmog]

186. It will be interesting to see if these comments hurt AOC in The primary

[UniteFightBack]

173. So much for the big tent bullshit huh? nt

[Cha]

209. NO.

[crazytown]

2. Agreed. AOC is a member of the DSA.

[LonePirate]

4. It's not a bizarre comment. It's possible the party has changed even if some members have not.

A white man in his 70s and a Latinx women in her 20s can have very different views of the party and the country.

[DownriverDem]

13. Maybe

but I bet they have the same goals. That's what folks need to remember. It's the repubs who we need to fight and not each other.

[Demsrule86]

44. Yeah well her candidates are losing thus she is the one that seems out of step.

Biden has more talent and knowledge than she will likely ever have. It is easy to take safe Democratic seats,primary fellow Democrats in safe Democratic seats, and criticize Democrats who don't agree with you...but is it wise? No it isn't. And I predict, she will not long hold that seat...a rather pragmatic district who support Democrats. But the good news is...safe Democratic seat will remain in Democratic hands.

[LonePirate]

57. Yeah, anybody can defeat a 20 year incumbent and member of leadership by 15 points!

Happens all of the time, right? Her district is anything but pragmatic. Perhaps you’re thinking of Democratic held seats in Cincinnati, Dallas or Kansas City, and not in progressive New York City.

I don’t think you understand how much she represents the energy and views of the younger, urban and minority members of the party. Bash her at your own peril as the party moves in her direction.

[Demsrule86]

62. Given the voter turnout in the primary...no it wasn't hard. Once she won the primary she was

in...it is a blue blue district...so no it wasn't hard. I am interested to see how it goes next timeand the time after that... I would suggest she turn attention to her district a bit more and spend less time primarying Democrats and criticizing the party.

[PatSeg]

66. And it is only a two year term

It is possible that winning the seat initially might have been easier than holding it. Congressional representatives are suppose to be representing their district first and foremost, not using their seat as bully pulpit for their political ideology. If she was actually doing her job, she wouldn't have so much time for all this media attention and publicity stunts.

[Demsrule86]

73. That is the biggest complaint about her that I hear...she is using the district as a stepping stone

for something else and constituent services are not a priority.

[PatSeg]

81. When Hillary was in the senate,

we hardly heard anything about her, as she was actually on the ground in New York, listening and working with constituents. Lawrence O'Donnell did an excellent segment a couple years back about freshmen senators and congressional representatives. Good ones keep a low profile in the beginning, avoid national press, and focus on their constituents, the people who will hopefully vote for them again.

There is a lot to learn for the newcomers and it is usually best done with one's mouth shut and eyes and ears open. A little humility and respect all goes a long way as well.

[LonePirate]

70. The challenge was the primary, not the general. Any D wins that area in the general.

You are obviously and intentionally ignoring the massive upset of her primary win against an opponent with Crowley’s credentials, experience, war chest and endorsements. But I guess you are overlooking it because it does not aid in your crusade to belittle AOC as being lucky or lazy or out of step with her district. If her district is so pragmatic and as centrist as you erroneously believe, how did she win her primary against Crowley? Funny how that seems irrelevant to you. I wonder why (as I ask rhetorically).

[Demsrule86]

72. It is not much of a challenge with 10% or less voting in the primary...the challenge will be can she

win again or does she go down in a primary...I know people in that district...and I say the jury is out. (Hubs is from the Bronx)

[LonePirate]

74. She wins again easily now that she's the incumbent with name ID, money and endorsements.

[Demsrule86]

76. Time will tell...her opponent the first time was the

incumbent, with the name, money and endorsements also. She should attend to her district.

[Gore1FL]

177. Do you have evidence she isn't? nt

[booley]

93. pretty much

while there was some doubt and calls of shenanigans when Crowly refused to take himself off the worker's party ticket, it was assured that AOC would be in Congress once she won the primary.

Her detractors keep ignoring an obvious question... Why was a deep blue district so willing to throw out a multi term Democrat, one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress, for a complete newcomer who had never run before?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

105. Excellent point!! AOC did the impossible... and will do so again!! She's a rockstar!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[George II]

89. Well, if she's not happy in our party there's a remedy for that. After all, she thinks our party....

....is too big a tent. Lead by example!

[LakeArenal]

102. My thought exactly

All the comments regarding “establishment Democrats” what party do you think Joe should be in?The well established Democratic Party. That leaves AOC out.
Our big tent was great to get herself in office. Now not so much?

If you want to be a revolutionary do it.
But not with the established party I have known my whole life

[Hortensis]

139. Her rejection of the wonderfulness of our big tent

because it IS a big tent full of people giving to get is revealing. As you say, way too big. Way too much diversity of ideas and goals, way too many different factions working together to achieve common goals for HER little faction to have its own way.

So Ocasio imagines that in another nation she'd belong to a small, narrowly ideological party instead of a big, wonderfully inclusive and cooperative major party. Yes, but that's not exactly a profound insight.

She doesn't question the virtue of pursuing a narrow ideology that leads her to despise the cooperation and respect for the wishes and needs of others required for democracy to work. Nor does she question the utility of trying to achieve lofty goals as a relatively powerless outlier, of course constantly doing battle with the party that has the power she needs.

Now look at Warren. She wants to make change happen, not waste herself opposing power. So she joined and works with the huge powerful, diverse Democratic Party. Which to my mind is as admirably competent as insistence on opposing from a position of weakness is dysfunctional.

[George II]

146. If she doesn't believe in the big tent, one of the principles of our Party, what's she doing here?

[Hortensis]

148. Only game in town? The big tent isn't only a basic principle

and glory of our party, it's the same for democracy itself.

Our representative democracy reminds me that she supported attempted the overthrow of 17 million Democrats' majority votes in our last primary. Her continued support of the candidate who tried, instead of dropping him like a rotten potato and backdating it to first hearing his name, suggests her problem with it is that they didn't succeed.

[ehrnst]

141. Yep. (nt)

[Gore1FL]

178. If we just lived up to our espoused values as Democrats she'd happily fit in.

It's when we coddle Republicans and compromise our beliefs that we quit being effective.

[Huin]

94. But then the new members should step out and form a new party.

Our political system might be better off if they did. Our constitution does not forbid to have more than two parties in congress. In fact the constitution is silent on the subject of parties. It seems that if more than two parties were represented in Congress, none having a majority, there would be more room for meaningful discussion and compromise: hence less room for fighting as it seems to be now. Our two party system is certainly not good for our nation. It's like driving a car by alternately slamming on the gas and then on the brakes. The engine suffers, the brakes suffer, the gas mileage suffers. What's more the ride becomes very uncomfortable after a possible initial bliss of sheer silliness.

What you are condoning compares to children growing up and instead of starting their own lives, staying in their parents' homes and trying to kick them out. Maybe those are the new ethics. I prefer the old.

[George II]

109. The white man in his 70s has devoted decades to the party to make it what it is. I'm not ready....

....to throw him in the garbage heap.

She should show him and all the other "establishment Democrats" a little more reverence and respect. She's taking her cue from someone who couldn't even bother to be a Democrat except for when it suits him, like every four years for a few months.

[UniteFightBack]

174. And they can also have a lot in common. It was not a bizarre comment it was close minded and

IMMATURE.

[TidalWave46]

5. It's is one of the major reasons for our stability. NT

[KPN]

87. Stability?! What stability?

[TidalWave46]

95. Your reply is based in American Exceptionalism.

We are very stable and it is a direct result in the inability of congress to move rapidly on almost anything because of our two party system.

[KPN]

97. And that's a good thing? Meanwhile, we've got an executive branch that's moving rapidly on

just about everything good that has transpired for the average American, the environment, and even minorities over the past 40 years. That's not stability in my book. Not to mention the pedal to the metal rush to nominate and lifetime appoint really young hyper-conservative judges throughout the federal court system over the past two years.

Oh, American Exceptionalism? That's been an exaggeration, and on numerous fronts a lie, from the get go -- at least since the early 60s. My reply was based on what I see right now. Frankly, the sense of "stability" is what got us here to those who have been paying attention to labor and the economy the past 40 years.

[TidalWave46]

98. It's one of the best things we have going for us.

"we've got an executive branch that's moving rapidly on just about everything good that has transpired for the average American, the environment, and even minorities over the past 40 years."

You highlight the stability in that sentence.

"Oh, American Exceptionalism? That's been an exaggeration, and on numerous fronts a lie, from the get go -- at least since the early 60s."

You highlight my accurate point with this sentence as well. No doubt the feelings are a great display of what American Exceptionalism is.

We are so unstable that I am going to post on an internet board, with my space heater next to me, for the next twelve hours!!!

Shit!!!!! Who is that at my door?!?!?!?!?!

Nope. Wasn't the KGB. Just an Amazon delivery guy bringing me my avocado shampoo.

[treestar]

135. Compared to Honduras or Argentina or

and number of other countries. We don't have real coups (we use it as a metaphor at most). Our currency is used by unstable countries instead of their own! We haven't broken up like the USSR. The only countries more stable are Western European ones.

[NYMinute]

6. Why do the Democratic Socialists hate the Democrats?

[Autumn]

9. One could also ask why do Democrats hate Democratic Socialists ?

I'm not talking about the leadership, they seem accepting and appreciate the fact that the DS's caucus with them and are on their side. I'm asking about the rank and file Democrats.

[DownriverDem]

14. It's the

Democratic Party not the Democratic-Socialists Party. Folks seem to forget that.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

15. So you agree that in non-two party countries, they would be in different parties.

Why do you think that your particular view of the world has the claim to what the Democratic party is about, then?

[Autumn]

17. Whatever happened to your Big tent Democratic party? I can see Republicans are

welcome by the rank and file , but not us. And Republicans do nothing for you. Oh well I don't care. The times they are changing.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. AOC is saying

It shouldn't be that big of a tent.

I tend to agree. I would like to see 7 or 8 insurgent political parties. I would most likely not be a Democratic or Democratic Socialist Party Member.

[Demsrule86]

65. Actually no...in the article AOC says their should be standards as to who can be

a Democrat...so she wants to kick out Democrats that don't agree with her it seems...not laughing...

[Autumn]

69. I agree with her. The Congressional Progressive Caucus should have the same standards as other

caucuses within the Democratic Party in Congress that have applications and standards that they believe in and in order to be in them you have to agree with their standards.

She said the Congressional Progressive Caucus should start kicking people out if they stray too far from the party line. Other caucuses within the Democratic Party in Congress require applications, Ocasio-Cortez pointed out. But “they let anybody who the cat dragged in call themselves a progressive. There’s no standard,” she said.

[redqueen]

80. You're conflating the Dem party with the CPC. nt

[Blue_true]

163. AOC is saying that a big tent is a bad thing. Democrats don't say that. nt

[Autumn]

169. The problem with the big tent is that moderate Republicans are welcome, Centrists are welcome

Moderates are welcome, Progressives don't seem to be welcome. I think that's the point she's trying to get across. That's what I get from what she said.

[Blue_true]

170. Big tent means that anyone that wants to take part in an ethical fashion is

welcome to do so, and then the soundest arguments win. If AOC can't stand for that, then maybe she should start her own echo-chamber party.

[ancianita]

75. Nancy Pelosi reaffirms this. Any implications that we're divided are mistaken or made in bad faith.

"Diversity is our strength, unity is our power."

[Demsrule86]

64. But that would be easy to answer...why should Democrats like a group that criticize the

party and spends their time primarying Democrats and has policy that they insist upon which will cost us elections like M4A and the so called Green New Deal which could never pass in its current form...not difficult to see why Democrats object to Democratic socialists...you are either a Democrat and support the party or you are not.

[Autumn]

107. Maybe because as members of the party we have every right to criticize the party?. I don't

consider myself a Democrat even thought I'm a registered Democrat and I vote for Democrats. I consider myself a Democratic Socialist, or a Progressive Democrat if that's more palatable.

[Demsrule86]

119. If you enjoy losing elections, by all means avail yourself of this 'right'...We have the right to do

certain things but that doesn't mean it is a wise or helpful thing to do. Personally, I would prefer to beat Republicans than play musical chairs with Democratic seats.

[Autumn]

121. Criticizing our party because we disagree with some their actions is not the reason we have

lost any election. That's horse shit. The reasons we have lost elections is because candidates have not motivated the electorate to get off their asses and vote. That is nothing new.

Voter Trends in 2016
A Final Examination

Exit polls indicated that the voting electorate in 2016 was 71 percent white, 12 percent black, 11 percent Latino, and 7 percent Asian or other race. Compared to 2012, the share of white voters dropped by a percentage point, as did the share of black voters.4 The vote share of Latinos increased by a point and the vote share of Asians and all other racial minorities increased by 2 points.

Our estimates tell a significantly different story about the racial/ethnic distribution of voters. The most salient difference here is that the exit polls underestimated the share of white voters and overestimated the share of voters of color. Our estimate is that 73.7 percent of voters were white (compared to 71 percent in the exits), 8.9 percent were Latino (compared to 11 percent), and 5.5 percent were Asian or other race (compared to 7 percent). However, our figures agree with the exit polls on the percent of black voters (12 percent).

s for shifts from 2012, our data show that the white vote share declined by only 0.3 percentage points in 2016. We found that the black vote share declined by 1.1 points, which mirrors the exit poll results, while the Latino vote share increased by 0.9 points and the vote share of Asians or other races increased by 0.5 points. So, other than shifts in the black vote share, we generally found less change in the racial/ethnic structure of the voting electorate between the two elections.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/democracy/reports/2017/11/01/441926/voter-trends-in-2016/

[treestar]

138. Then let Bernie go out and do that

Inspire people to vote. He's the Great One who can do that, so I have heard.

[Demsrule86]

147. It is exactly why we lose elections and why we have lost members...the party is attacked on the

right and the left...we lose because of being fucked over time and time again by the likes of Nader and Stien...and those on the left that voted for and supported them. Negative shit about our party drives voters away.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

106. That's a fair question.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[treestar]

136. If you must see it that way, it's because

they are afraid of losing to Republicans due to the demands of Democratic Socialists and their threats not to vote or to try to get others to not vote or vote third party. It's the reason Hillary lost the EC in the minds of some of them. That point can be argued, but having Dotard in the Oval Office instead of a "corporate Democrat" is not a good thing.

[Blue_true]

162. The democratic socialists can leave our party and start their own party.

No one likes someone that has paid no dues coming into a club trying to order longtime dues paying members around.

I have no interest in accommodating people that parachute into the Democratic Party to use it's resources and infrastructure to get elected.

[UniteFightBack]

175. Because of BULLSHIT comments like this and this is the tip of the iceberg. nt

[Autumn]

197. It wasn't a comment. It was a question.

[UniteFightBack]

205. I answered your question. nt

[Autumn]

207. No, you didn't. You were under the impression it was a comment. nt

[Huin]

96. I say it again ...

I don't think they hate the Democrats. They might say so while fighting for positions. In an analogy it is like children who grow up but do not have the courage to get out of the house and start their own lives as they should. Instead they lounge at home, tweet and text. And when the parents complain, the children suggest "Why don't you move out". Times change and so do ethical standards. A wise Native American once said: "A conscience is a wheel inside of us. It has sharp points. Each time we do or say something bad the wheel turns and it hurts. But in time when we don't react to the turning wheel the points get dull and we lose the concept of what might be good or bad.

[NYMinute]

99. Bad analogy

The hatred of the Democratic party from some is visceral and maleficent.

[treestar]

133. And more than the Republicans?

Who they leave alone?

[NYMinute]

153. +1,000,000 nt

[TwilightZone]

7. Attitudes like that are a great way to lose elections.

She, like many others, doesn't seem to understand that one size does not fit all, particularly on a national scale.

[PatSeg]

22. I agree

The Democratic party is too big a tent? Nice way to become a permanent minority party. She seems to be advocating exclusion, instead of inclusion. We live in big and diverse country and she seems to be living in a bubble.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (I refuse to call her by her initials) is very smart and articulate. I am sure she has a great future ahead of her, but she needs a little more experience to complement her progressive ideas. She won't be the first bright young politician to come to DC ready to change the world with their energy and bold ideas, but you don't bring about positive change by undermining and denigrating all the progressives that came before you. They paved the way and deserve your respect.


Oh very young, what will you leave us this time?

[Huin]

149. Agreed

In our 2020 federal governmental elections it looks like we may have to deal with three major eco-political systems: Capitalism, Socialism and Communism. If you think "what the heck is he talking about", please hear me out.

Capitalism is defined (searched it's meaning on Bing) as "an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state."

Socialism is defined (searched it's meaning on Bing) as "a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." And I believe that definition must have come from a capitalist, since the wording seems to deny or downplay the existence of socialism. So I like to edit it to the format of the definition of capitalism.

Socialism is a political and economic system which advocates that a country's means of production, distribution, and exchange are controlled by the country's government, rather than by private owners for profit. (as edited by Huin)

Communism is defined (also as searched as "meaning of " on Bing) as "a political theory[ or system, as edited] derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs." If we apply this to our country we would be more correct to further edit out the words "class war and leading to". As edited, communism becomes defined as a political system derived from Karl Marx, advocating a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Though these systems are distinct and different from each other, capitalism and socialism can be merged and co-exist to the benefit of most people in our nation. Conservatives forces clearly advocate and support a capitalist system in our country. On the other hand, retired people, like myself, rely on the existence of Social Security and Medicare. I also know someone with pre-existing conditions who was saved from financial ruin as a result of the Affordable Care Act.

In our country there maybe 15 to 20% extreme right wing capitalists who will not accept a merged concept of capitalism and socialism for the benefit of the vast majority of people in our country. Also, believe it or not, there may be 15 to 20% of the population on the very left wing who see capitalism as a deadly enemy. To them, it means fight them or be destroyed by them.

If we disregard for the moment these Right- and Left-wingers, which still leaves about 60% of the American voters who would wholeheartedly accept the peaceful coexistence of capitalism with a moderate form of socialism in our country. Sixty percent of votes constitutes a landslide victory for any party. Any one of our two parties has the opportunity in the 2020 election to become that party of choice. Under Trump, I doubt whether the direction of Republicans as a whole will change. Though as time marches on there may be a few who see the light.

Humans consider themselves as beings different from most animals in ways other than merely in shape and form. Some believe that our difference lies in the fact that we can reason rather than use our basic instincts. And there may be something to that. But even with reason it may be like physical strength or other things: Use it or lose it. Another distinction over most animals is that humans have become masters in the use of tools. We use golf carts to avoid walking to the next challenge on the golf course. We use cars to avoid having to walk to the grocery store or to school and we use computers and the internet; and airplanes to visit far away places. And we use weapons to kill our enemies.

With all this there is in my mind one thing which predominantly distinguishes humans from animals. We love to possess property of various forms. Some live for riches and the life or the rich and famous enthralls them. Others may be happy to spend half a day to shine and clean the used car which they just bought at a year's end sale. Property is what most live for and how much depends often on how much are we willing to work for or to sacrifice for. But whatever it is that we have achieved, we try to protect it. After all, that property represents what we are and what we have achieved up to that point in our lives.

Putting this little interjection aside and returning to the main thread, the Democratic Party has an enormous opportunity, if its leadership will just take the helm and steer in the right direction. I believe that when candidates advocate to tax wealth, even if the tax is imposed only on the wealthiest and only as a small amount like a percent or two, it sounds good but it spells doom. A tax on wealth is a tax on what most people consider the basis of their existence. It represents their lives' achievement. If I were wealthy, though I am not, I would certainly be worried. But I am still concerned for another reason. If I were a multi-billionaire and might become subject to a tax on what I have, I would pack up my marbles and move. I would not stay in a country that attacks my very existence, my pride, my everything. If I left early I might not even lose on sales of real property. There are any number of civilized countries in the Western world that would love to welcome me and my wealth as a new citizen.

But what happens to the country without the wealth of those that have left? Real estate is a fickle thing. Its worth is determined only by what someone is willing and able to pay. Sure, publicly traded companies may continue to exist. But credit and trade will suffer. Those candidates who advocate a wealth tax may be blinded by the immediate opportunity to fund social projects without taking on added debt. What happens when all billionaires have flown the coup. Those who enjoyed those programs will then believe they have rights to them and they will revolt when those freebees go away. Sure we can always print money but that ultimately will not be worth the ink used for printing it.

I worked with a colleague who had come to this country from Germany. He had grown up in Berlin during the run-away inflation in the early 1920s that devastated many and is attributed to be a cause for the rise of Hitler's murderous empire. My colleague's dad got paid twice a day and had to buy groceries during lunch because he could no longer afford them later with the money he earned in the morning.

I have heard of a maxim in political science which says that if people have to choose between a dictatorship and chaos they will choose a dictatorship. This year will be a challenge to all of us.

[Duppers]

188. +100

[IronLionZion]

8. GOP memes online keep saying Joe is a lefty socialist

who is going to make everyone drink soy lattes and wear skinny jeans and whatever nonsense their twisted minds can imagine.

[Mr.Bill]

20. And the republicans

label Bernie as a communist and say Warren is going to drain their bank accounts so avocado toast-eating hipsters can go to college and study Hebrew basket weaving until they're 45 for free.

Who cares what they think. They are never going to have anything good to say about any of our candidates.

[IronLionZion]

24. My point is we shouldn't worry about our candidate being "too liberal"

GOP will always say our candidate is too liberal no matter who it is.

[Demsrule86]

40. How about when you are a newly elecected Democrat, you shouldn't attack other Democrats in

a presidential primary. I am beginning to dislike her...and I wonder if she returns in 20...heard there will be a primary opponent. Kind of ironic that.

[redstatebluegirl]

86. I totally agree.

I liked her at first, now not so much.

[Mr.Bill]

41. Very true. n/t

[PatSeg]

29. "And study Hebrew basket weaving until they're 45 for free."

[defacto7]

51. A person can't care what they think. They don't think.

They just suck up and repeat russian born clichés.

[treestar]

140. They have the media help them

with coverage of Dope's rallies. We have to deal with their BS somehow. We can't just ignore their existence and pretend they won't convince some people and discourage others not to vote.

[treestar]

134. +1

The left pretends there are no Republicans. And that their worse competitors are the "corporate Democrats."

[cry baby]

11. Do we want to win? It is a good time to use a gentle filter when

talking about other democrats so as not to dissuade voters from voting. We’re going to have to be energetic in backing who ever wins the primaries. Comments like this are counterproductive.

[Hav]

16. Does she want to make the rules who belongs

in the party or in caucuses?
Also, quite the hypocrisy to say the progressive caucus should kick people out who don't follow the party line.
All I know is that Biden has been a Dem for decades and his views clearly align with the Democratic party, he belongs in this party. If some people believe they don't like being in the same party with Biden, maybe it's up to them to change that.

As for the comment that they wouldn't be in the same party in any other country, that is clearly bs and embarrassingly ignorant. Maybe she doesn't know much about the parties in other countries but being pro-choice and for marriage equality alone puts him on the side of progressives in contrast to conservative parties.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. That's my question

Who makes the rules?

Who died and crowned her queen?

[PatSeg]

35. She is clearly showing her lack

of world experience. I remember being young and idealistic and we thought we knew everything. Turns out, not so much. Some things take time and some people need to look and listen before they speak.

[Hav]

53. Yeah, that was me as well at maybe 18 to early 20s

Believing one has the high ground on certain issues or all the answers. Eventually, I grew up. And it wasn't an abandonment of principles or ideals, it was mainly a realization of the limitations of my own knowledge and recognizing the value you can gain from the input of those with more experience or different views.

[PatSeg]

63. And that the world wasn't so black or white,

right or wrong, good or bad. Life is so much more complex and nuanced than that and some changes take time and perseverance. Young people often want to blow everything up and then rebuild it from scratch. History suggests that real change does not happen overnight, but comes in incremental changes.

So many things that we take for granted like Social Security or Medicare initially were not what we know today. It took years of work and struggle, a struggle that is ongoing. I really had little appreciation of that when I was young.

[brooklynite]

18. One wing of the Democratic Party helped win the House back in 2018

The other wing won some safely Blue House seats.

[Demsrule86]

36. And the wing that won the safe blue house seats...can't compete statewide and in some cases in any

districts of multiple states that are not deep blue...What future do these folks have...they won't win the Senate or the governorship in their home states...and I highly doubt they will ever win a presidential primary.

[squirecam]

210. True

Nt

[comradebillyboy]

19. Each time AOC speaks my opinion of her diminishes. She's a divider not

a uniter. There's a reason I'm a Democrat and not a member of DSA. The DSA wing is the fringe not the mainstream. It seems AOC would rather make enemies than friends, not a recipe for effective political leadership.

[Mr.Bill]

23. She reminds me of a quote from Jim Morrison when I was her age:

"We want the world and we want it now". Okay, fine. But it's not going to happen during your first term in Congress.

I can't fault her very much because I felt the same way when I was her age.

[PatSeg]

37. I think she got too much attention

in a short period of time and perhaps it went to her head. If she wants to endure, she needs to slow down a bit and show some respect for the many courageous progressives that preceded her. It takes more than great ideas to make a difference.

[comradebillyboy]

42. She has great Ideas?

[PatSeg]

54. Maybe I gave her too much credit

but I do think she is very bright. It is just she seems to have tunnel vision, a "my way or the highway" attitude. Maybe she needs to brush up on her history and see how far we've come with the help of liberal Democrats who came before her. Most, if not all of them probably would not pass her naive purity tests.

[treestar]

142. Yes, look how long it took women to get the vote

They didn't get it earlier by just demanding - they had to convince a majority - no a supermajority, given that it what an amendment to the Constitution takes.

I see a lot of people complaining about centrists - the centrists have to be convinced, along with some of the conservatives. No point in just insulting people you need to convince.

[PatSeg]

152. Sometimes it takes a log of small steps

to equal a quantum leap. You can't win them all all of the time and sometimes you have to settle for less, so you can come back and fight another day.

Pretty much everyone was dissatisfied with the Affordable Care Act when it was passed, but it was an initial step toward universal healthcare. If the Obama administration and Democrats could have gotten more, they would have. Meanwhile, millions more people have health coverage and lives have been saved. If we take back the senate and the White House, it will be easier to move to that next step. That is pretty much how progressive legislation has become reality throughout our history. Social Security and Medicare didn't fall from the sky one day.

[Dem4Life1102]

21. "Democrats can be too big of a tent"????

Very odd comment.

[Demsrule86]

33. Why we must have standards...her standards I suppose...no thanks...Honestly, I like her less and

less...does she think such comments are useful during a presidential primary?

[mopinko]

47. it's not that odd. that debate has happened here a brazillion times. ie- choice

i would wager that if you took a vote, the majority of the women on this site would expel people like lapinski, who favor maternal slavery.
but there is a "pro-life" strain in the party. they dont come to it from the same route as most thugs, and have a coherent philosophy about life. anti-war, anti-capital punishment, anti-guns, even.
so, we dont kick them off du, or out of the party.

heck, been going on forever. like lbj's preference for having his foes "inside the tent pissing out, instead of outside the tent pissing in."

[Me.]

27. What's The Matter, Isn't She Getting Enough Attention Lately

Out of the news, no headlines?

[comradebillyboy]

43. You hit the nail right on the head there.

[OKNancy]

28. Bull

What? He would be a Democrat and she would be a Communist.

Joe Biden is a liberal. Biden is a Democrat.
AOC is a Democrat too.. I don't really believe she is a Communist, but I do believe she is full of bull.

[Huin]

155. What makes a communist a communist?

In a search using Bing I found a definition for property. Property is a thing or things belonging to someone; possessions collectively.
Communists don't have property they don't respect others having property. Material things that might be property are merely material that may be used by anyone and all, according to their needs.
If people intend to tax property, or tax wealth. They want to use a power of government to take property without just compensation. By definition that makes them a communist. Only communists do not recognize private wealth or property. And I don't dislike a person just because they are communists. That's their orientation, but communists they are. Let's be honest about it. Though I might like them and respect them greatly on a private basis, I could not bring myself to help vote a communist into public office.

[BeyondGeography]

30. If Bernie wants to both win and get things done as President this is obviously bad messaging

His surrogates are free to say what they want but that comes at a price.

[comradebillyboy]

46. Bernie really doesn't have a record of getting things done though.

[BeyondGeography]

49. Yeah..I said "if"

[comradebillyboy]

52. I know, but I couldn't resist.

Congrats on your candidate getting the Castro endorsement this morning.

[BeyondGeography]

56. Thank you

[Blue_true]

165. That she would say something like that clearly means that Bernie is on board with it, IMO. nt

[Demsrule86]

31. Why don't you start your own party AOC...see how many join and support you.

[lostnfound]

45. Be careful what you ask for. Nt

[MrsCoffee]

50. Not worried.

[Demsrule86]

60. I am not worried either...they do more damage within the party as they are divisive.

[Demsrule86]

58. What good is she to the Democratic Party with such comments during a presidential primary and having

read the full article, it is even worse than what is in the OP...we would keep her seat should she form her own party; if you look at history this has happened before- during Roosevelt's time when some to the left thought Roosevelt was the devil and formed the progressive party...it lasted maybe two years. The country is not left but center left and leaning increasinly towards the center particulary now as a presidential loss always moves the country to the right.

Often such who complain about the party play musical Democratic chairs and do very little to expand our party by winning hearts and minds. She couldn't win statewide in most states including IMHO New York. She is in a blue blue district and it is a very safe district for Democrats. She should think about this...especially the last two words...'for Democrats'.

[lostnfound]

208. The country IS center left and so am I.. expanding the conversation is vital

The right wing has brainwashed so many people into hating government and believing that “rich people create all the jobs”, we need some pithy leftist “counterprogramming”which she is often good at providing.

[Blue_true]

166. Let her go ahead. We can direct resources to where they produce more results for society. nt

[dem4decades]

32. But it's THIS country. She seems to be more in favor of disruption of the democratic party.

[DetlefK]

34. For comparison, Germany has 6 major parties:

Linke - far-left anti-establishment party
Grüne - center-left environmentalists/liberals
SPD - center-left social-democrats
CDU - center-right moderate conservatives
FDP - center-right capitalist liberals
AfD - far-right anti-immigrant/anti-establishment party

While this makes actual politicking difficult because of the negotiations/alliances/bickering/pissing-contests between parties, voters have a choice on the political spectrum.



Italy has about 15-20 parties in parliament...

[Peacetrain]

38. Interesting.. VP Biden is an established leader in the Democratic Party.. soooooooo

whose nose is out of joint because they find themselves in the wrong party?? just sayin

[Wawannabe]

78. And

She ran and won as a D! Wtf? Could she have won that seat as an independent? Fuck no! She spits in the eyes of the very people who supported her candidacy as a D.

I am with those that say she can TRY to form her own vision of a new party and the get on with joining it or whatever. I am also of the opinion she can take the one she endorses with her!

[seaglass]

39. She thinks the Dem party is too big of a tent, so let's make the Democratic party smaller?

[Docreed2003]

48. "Oh God", she said with a groan

Yeah because Joe Biden as President would be so fucking terrible. SMH

People need to wake the fuck up and realize that we are literally in the fight of our lives for our fucking democracy. Now is not the time to opine about how difficult it is for you to be in a "big tent party" or to diminish the work of our party. We are going to need that "big tent" to take on Trump in November. Wax poetic all you wish about how you're really a "Democratic Socialist", never mind the fact that pablum seems to have been a load of pseudo-intellectual nonsense. The hand we have been dealt TODAY is that we are a two party system. Yes, it sucks in some ways. Yes, it seems like it's limiting at times. But that is what we have right now! The idea that there is only one way to accomplish the goals we all want to see accomplished is wrong headed, foolish, and extremely immature. The GOP has given us enough "my way or the highway"/"with us or against" us crap to last us a lifetime. I can't believe that some are willing to use that kind of mindset within our party.

[Skidmore]

126. Yes. This.

Last edited Mon Jan 6, 2020, 08:05 PM - Edit history (1)

This young woman needs to get a grip. It was this type of thinking and people behaving as if they live in a parliamentary system that got us Trump to begin with. The Sarandons who expressed belief that Trump would be preferential as president because if Americans just suffered enough they would rush to embrace this political philosophy that has no party. The nation and the world are suffering in a way not seen in a generation. We have a cadre of the population who would be just fine with exterminating a whole range of Americans based on immutable characteristics who have been given great power in this manner.

I will not wring my hands for these people because they wagered based on their sense of righteous purity and we all lost. We are back at solid Democrats needing to clean up another large Republican mess. My vote will go with a Democrat. Now is not the time to experiment with a movement nor give harbor to a faction not unlike the Tea Party. There is too much to do to entertain fractiousness.

[emmaverybo]

179. THIS.

[betsuni]

183. Thank you.

[Duppers]

191. Yes, THIS. +100

[redqueen]

55. The sooner we get proportional representation, the better. nt

[Doodley]

59. She is laying out the reasons for a possible third-party run.

[tritsofme]

61. Sounds like a dog whistle to encourage Democrats to vote third party.

Disgusting.

[still_one]

67. She has just disenfranchised Biden and Hillary supporters by her misrepresentations and divisionary

rhetoric AGAIN.

We will see how that works out for her candidate in the primaries

[Bayard]

68. Unwise

I like Ocasio-Cortez for the most part, but she has no respect for her elders. That may be well and good if the Dems were in total control, but right now, with our very democracy hanging in the balance, she needs to be working for the common good of the country.

I do believe entirely too much focus has been turned on this young lady (yes--at my age, I can say that), from both parties.

[George II]

71. This is MY Democratic Party. I've been supporting it for decades, have worked with it for decades...

....and have run, and won, for office as a Democrat several times.

We do not apply "purity tests" to potential members. Perhaps if we did she wouldn't be a member?

[still_one]

83. +++

[onecaliberal]

77. In any other country we wouldn't be held hostage by a mad man while we attack good people on our own

Fucking team. STOP THIS STUPID BULLSHIT!

[PatSeg]

82. Bingo!

Some people seem to have forgotten their priorities, if they ever had any besides promoting themselves.

[still_one]

84. Excellent response!!!

[LongtimeAZDem]

88. Welcome to DU

[Renew Deal]

101. She can leave

[empedocles]

103. 'immense star power'? A certain rw promoted notoriety for the general electorate - sure.

[dalton99a]

160. Brighter Than A Thousand Suns

Her power and influence dwarf anything heretofore seen in our galaxy, and possibly beyond

[empedocles]

185. .

Good one!

[Or so some here seem to 'think' . . . ?]

[RelativelyJones]

104. A glib showboater, as always.

[still_one]

108. She should apologize for those comments, but would be surprized if she did

[George II]

110. It'll never happen. Here's a measure of her attitude. Instead of letting a childish thing go....

....from a year ago, she has to dredge it back up again. I'll be down in Queens often in the spring once the primary campaign revs up. Not sure who I'll support yet (Badrun Khan, Jose Velazquez, or Fernando Cabrera), but I'll work for one of them to get the 14th District the representation it deserves.

Link to tweet

[melman]

116. Well would you look at that

Openly talking about your plans to campaign against an incumbent Democrat.


And this after making dozens if not hundreds of posts expressing outrage that anyone would do that.


LOL x infinity

[George II]

117. Thanks for that. BTW, I missed you, were you ill?

[melman]

118. Funny

When I post a lot you accuse me of following you around. When I don't post a lot you try to make that an issue.

[ehrnst]

143. Who's accusing you of following them around?

[George II]

171. Hey, you should be happy that I'm concerned about your well-being. After all we don't have M4A yet.

[melman]

182. har har

Everything's a joke. Millions go without healthcare and you try to make a funny. It's sad.


And what if I had been sick? You know, people do get sick. Does everything have to be fodder for internet barbs?

[ehrnst]

190. Careful - Those pearls will break if clutched too hard...

[melman]

195. Are you sure it's not a straw man?

I mean it could definitely be a straw man. Everything else seems to be.

[ehrnst]

196. Lulz. You still respond when you have nothing to say.

[Blue_true]

168. Actually, I see the poster as campaigning FOR a democrat.

People that get involved in democratic primaries ARE working to have one candidate win, that is the way that things work.

[melman]

184. That's nice

I mean you completely missed the point but still. It's very nice. Thanks for checking in.

[Hekate]

111. Welcome to America, Missy. But just so you know, even parliamentary systems COMPROMISE...

Parliamentary systems, where they have multiple parties, cannot get anything done unless they form coalitions and COMPROMISE.

Jesus H. Christ.

[melman]

112. Missy?

wtf

[Hekate]

113. I'm old. So shoot me, melman. Or just address my point about multi-party compromises.

[melman]

114. That gives you a license to be sexist?

She's a 30 year old woman and an elected representative.

Moreover, if someone said "Missy" about a politician you liked you would be furious.

[Hekate]

120. Oh melman, melman...

I'm a grandma with a knee that's giving me hell and making me cranky -- and I was a feminist before that young firebrand's mama was out of kindergarten.

[melman]

123. Okay

You're saying that since you're a grandma and a feminist it's okay for you to be dismissive of a grown woman. Got it.


But speaking of grandmas, if it's okay to call a young female politician "Missy", is it also okay to call an older female politician "grandma"? Like, let's say there was a thread on Nancy Pelosi and someone said "okay grandma"


This would be okay? If it's not okay I'm sure you can explain why and what the difference is.

[Hekate]

124. One last chance to address my point about compromise...

No?

Okay.

[melman]

125. That's what I thought

[ehrnst]

145. Now it's the "I know you are, but what am I?" mode of reposte.

[George II]

150. (....looking up the definition of "reposte")

[ehrnst]

151. .....

[sheshe2]

172. ...

[melman]

181. Here's a tip for you

You'll get better results with "riposte"

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

154. Were you expecting a serious response?!

Last edited Tue Jan 7, 2020, 09:49 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

189. When one is retreating in defense, one doesn't want any response, let alone a serious one.

[ehrnst]

193. ....

(Pearl clutching about Scott Adams forthwith.)

[ehrnst]

144. That's a rather silly, insulting strawman.

But I guess when you have no real response...

[Polybius]

122. While I'm not supporting Biden in the primaries, AOC has attacked a Democrat in a disgusting way

She went way over the line. If he wins the nomination and she doesn't support him, she will lose her primary.

[BjornSig]

127. AOC should slow her roll a bit.

When she speaks, people want to listen, I wish she would slow down a bit. More support would be given to her if she were to step back a bit, gather more facts and speak without sounding so angry.

[marble falls]

167. Her facts are on the money and she is one of the few who make a point of ...

correcting her rare mispeaks.

"speak without sounding so angry." That is so coded in a negative way.

[Mersky]

130. Why did NyMag run this now? Why not the week of Dec 23?

After all, seems the interview took place on or about December 11-14. The photo of postit notes is dated to the 11th and attributed to the author of the piece.

Published this week and without update, her criticisms seem extra harsh and tone deaf as since its penning, we’ve been unwillingly tied to the madman in the WH who is threatening to burn it all down rather than face a full trial in the Senate.

And, so what, if AOC thinks the Democratic Party isn’t progressive enough, yet? It’s what Democrats do: offer variety and dynamism of thought that comes with plodding through the complexities of making good policy. Would I, myself, like it if the entire country agreed with her vision? Yes, I absolutely would. Do I think that should come at the cost of risking advances already made in that big ol’ honking tent that includes those more moderate than her or I? No, imo, the Democratic Party will continue being evermore progressive by bringing more into the tent.

So, I disagree with her on the most stark quote from the piece. Is no big deal. I’m glad she’s on our team.

In looking at their publishing timelines, I learned that New York Magazine was purchased by Vox in September of last year. I’ve enjoyed their content over time, probably will continue to, but I’ll be more critical of their choices as we have enough drama without editorial pot-stirring. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_(magazine)

Also, as the NyMag article was being written, AOC was somewhat vindicated in her stance on tax incentives to large corporations when amazon announced they would open offices in NYC. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/12/11/amazon-will-move-into-nyc-after-all-did-it-really-need-public-investments/

[treestar]

132. But they are in this country

Why does anyone to the left of Biden et al worry more about Biden et al than the Republicans? It's like the Republicans don't exist and they can afford not to have to make coalitions with people closer to them on the scale.

[ebbie15644]

156. She wants to form or run in another party

I say all the more power to her. I'll stay a proud dem voter

[kstewart33]

157. Keep talking like that AOC, and you'll be out of a career.

Stop the magazine interviews, the cable TV appearances, the photo shoots, the flame throwing, and go to Congress and do what your constituents elected you to do.

That's the long, gritty, exhausting, aggravating job of getting a substantive bill passed. No media, no spotlight, no enthralled crowds, just the hard ass work of actually getting something done. Perhaps a phone call to Amy Klobuchar would help.

[ehrnst]

192. Working on committees is apparently something that keeps her from doing what she would rather

be doing.

“I was assigned to some of the busiest committees and four subcommittees, so my hands are full. And sometimes I wonder if they’re trying to keep me busy.”

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/tnyradiohour/segments/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-2020-presidential-race-and-why-we-should-break-homeland-security

[Hekate]

199. Maybe she should ask "Auntie Maxine" what it was like being a newbie 30 years ago...

I remember Congresswoman Waters saying, a year or so back, that when she first came she was assigned a committee that sounded quite dull and like it had nothing to do with her core goals of serving the black community and women, but she dug into it and discovered it was highly relevant after all. She became Ranking Member, and is now Chair, a recognized powerhouse in her 15th term.

But -- new blood and all that. Maxine Waters is just so establishment. And she's old. What could a woman like that possibly have to teach an ambitious young woman like AOC?

[ehrnst]

200. .....

[kstewart33]

204. Oh, so Nancy and other powerful Dems are conspiring against her.

[hurl]

158. I think she's right

The fact is that, given our large population, we have long since passed the time in which two parties can sufficiently represent everyone's interests. We are a much more diverse country than that, but until political realities like 'first pass out of the gate' and 'Duverger's law' are removed from the system, we're stuck with the current situation in which AOC and Biden share parties.

[betsuni]

159. She thinks Bernie turned Vermont blue single-handedly.

Could someone tell me what the hell this means: "The whole primary is going to be about the soul of the Democratic Party. I think it's a referendum on whether we think everything was fine before Trump. People who live in a lot of privilege, who think there was nothing wrong before Trump. They think Hillary was the problem. But it's much deeper than that."

Republicans deciding to block everything President Obama tried to do. NOBODY thought things were fine. Democrats ARE NOT ELITISTS. What is she talking about?

[Blue_true]

161. AOC is free to start her own political party and give up the resources and infrastructure of ours. n

[jrandom421]

164. Some big talk from AOC

when she won the district with a 14% voter turnout in 2016

[UniteFightBack]

176. She thinks she always knows best. Attacking Democrats is never a good strategy ask Sanders. nt

[BlueTsunami2018]

180. This does Joe a huge favor.

Being disassociated from her helps immensely with the mainstream of the party, with independents and disenchanted Republicans who hate Тяцмр but are afraid to vote for a Democrat they find too far left.

Thanks AOC.

[Gothmog]

187. Joe does not want to be tied to the squad in the general election

[Joe941]

194. Ita a true statement.

[melman]

198. Yes

and an obviously true one at that. The outrage over this makes zero sense.

[still_one]

201. Just like her mentor, using the Democratic Party to further their political ambitions.

No one should be deceived by these folks again

[Blue_Tires]

203. Dumb...

Going by that logic, Obama and Biden shouldn't be in the same party, much less running mates.

[Gothmog]

206. AOC may have helped Joe win the nomination

Link to tweet