Bernie Sanders argues Joe Biden and 'establishment' ignored working- and middle-class voters

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

After Joe Biden won a decisive victory in Saturday's South Carolina primary, his chief Democratic presidential campaign rival, Sen. Bernie Sanders, wasted no time in drawing contrasts with the former vice president, accusing him of ignoring the voters who could lead the way in defeating President Donald Trump.

"In order to beat Trump, we are going to need the largest voter turnout in the history of this country," said Sanders, I-Vt., on ABC's "This Week" Sunday. "And I don't think you can do that unless you have a message that appeals to the working class and the middle class in this country, who have been ignored too long by the political establishment, of which Joe Biden is part of."

Despite finishing a distant second to Biden in South Carolina, Sanders said he believes that his campaign has an "excellent chance" to win some of the larger states' contests in the coming weeks.

"We'll see what happens on (Super) Tuesday," he said. "But my guess is, that we have an excellent chance to win some of the largest states in this country and states all across this country. because of the coalition we're putting together because of the issues we're talking about."

Link to tweet

?s=20

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/bernie-sanders-says-thinks-excellent-chance-win-larger-142651086--abc-news-topstories.html

[TwilightZone]

1. The working class voters of SC seem to have disagreed rather emphatically.

[Tom Rinaldo]

2. Voters vary by States. When was the last time SC went Democratic in a Presidential Election? n/t

[TwilightZone]

7. Right, so they're not important.

Who cares about voters in South Carolina? We won't win SC anyway. Fuck 'em.

You really have no idea how ridiculous that argument sounds, do you? It also implies a few other things that I won't bother to get into.

And, yet, Sanders supporters make it over and over again.

You want to know why many of us have trouble taking Sanders seriously? Because of assertions exactly like yours.

It may come as a surprise to you, but all delegates count toward the nomination. If your candidate doesn't really give a shit about the ones in states we won't win in November, I suggest he release them to someone who does.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. Don't put words into my mouth

You really went flying off on a tangent with a full head of steam. Where did I say or even imply that voters in SC aren't important? On what basis are you suggesting that my "candidate doesn't really give a shit about the ones in states we won't win in November"?

All I was saying is that voters vary regionally, and they do. Working class voters in the Deep South are often more conservative than are working class voters in California, or Michigan. I was citing the difficulty that Democrats have winning presidential elections in the South as indicative of that, whether we run Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden. Of course all delegates count toward the nomination, as well they should. I was a strong backer of Howard Dean's 50 State strategy and still am. We should fight for every vote we can get. But different candidates play better to different prevailing local sensibilities, so it is dangerous to generalize from one State, whether it is Nevada or South Carolina, how much they will each appeal to different groups that may have race or income in common but perhaps socially are very different

[TwilightZone]

18. Your intent was clear.

And it's a refrain that we have constantly been hearing from Sanders supporters for five years.

Simply put, it's bullshit, and I'm really tired of people who are supporting the "unity" candidate telling everyone who is and isn't important.

So, I suggest that if Sanders supporters really want to stop alienating people from their candidate that they actually think about what's behind the things that they say in support of him and understand that to many, many people, it sounds like thinly-veiled bigotry. At best, it sounds like ignorance.

Burning bridges, dismissing Democrats in states one doesn't like, and alienating voters is a pretty odd way of trying to win the nomination.

[Cha]

29. Well said.. I've seen it time and time again and it

gets them nowhere.. besides..

The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/

[BlueWI]

52. To be fair

Iowa and New Hampshire have been dismissed repeatedly as lily white states by several camps.

Some supporters are strong partisans. Just a simple fact. Shouldn't get in the way of uniting to defeat Trump.

[Vivienne235729]

74. Not entirely true. After IA and NH, Bernie peeps went on a no hold spree telling everyone

How bernie was indestructible after those 2 states and nothing could stop the revolution now. It was brought up that those 2 homogeneous states did not give an accurate depiction of the democratic constituency. And it's true. 54% of Democrats in the democratic party are AA who, at that time, have not spoken. You are confusing putting those 2 states into context w dismissing them

[BlueWI]

91. That's a fancy way to dismiss Iowa and NH

to say "putting them in context."

All states have different demographics, and they all have electoral votes. New Hampshire and Iowa are winnable states in the GE - they can't afford to be neglected or diminished, even if they're predominantly white. In fact, those states are more likely to go blue in the GE than SC. Plus, black voting patterns in SC are not identical to other states - assuming that the patterns will be similar cost us in 2016 in WI and Michigan, where lower enthusiasm for the ticket was not accounted for and was a factor in losing those states.

Partisans are what they are - partisans. They will get excited about their candidate's successes and are not always able to see their own foibles. What else is new?

[Vivienne235729]

95. I didn't say any of that. What I said was that it wasn't the be all end all that so many

Bernie supporters made it out to be. Bernie people practically said that everyone else should just pack it in after NH.

[Cha]

28. The Dangerous Myth That Hillary Clinton Ignored the Working Class

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/hillary-clinton-working-class/509477/

this is in the General Election.

[mcar]

61. This again?

Sure, let's write off every Democrat in a red state. Team Bernie made the same argument 4 years ago. It was dumb then, and dumb now.

[sheshe2]

110. The times they are a changing

[Iliyah]

3. There goes that name again. . . .

"establishment".

Oh by the way, working and middle class also includes POC, and SC's working and middle class voted for someone else.

[Skidmore]

99. +1 nt

[PatSeg]

4. Calling other Democrats "establishment"

does not sound like "coming together".

[msongs]

5. bernie has lived off the taxpayers for many decades, becoming a multi millionaire thanks to that...

he is about as establishment as one can be

[PatSeg]

22. He's been selling the same old tired

platitudes for years now and some of it is losing its relevance. I've been following Sanders long enough to know, not much of it has changed, but it could be new and revolutionary to some voters. Times change, some politicians don't.

[Fran2020]

6. He's right. The establishment has let working class voters down.

Time to return to FDR values. That's all that Bernie is saying, and he's right!

[dware]

10. Bernie is the establishment,

he's been living off taxpayers money for decades, yet he hasn't done a damn thing with the money we pay him except get a couple of post office's renamed.

[Fran2020]

21. Bernie is not the establishment. The establishment wants to stop him.

Bernie didn't vote for NAFTA, Free Trade, deregulation, War in Iraq, bankruptcy, or other establishment policies against the working class. Why do you think the establishment and Wall Street hate him so much?

[dware]

25. You can spin it all you want,

but Bernie is part of the establishment.

And when Bernie goes after the "establishment", he's going after good solid Democrats, like Pres. Obama, Pres. Clinton, Pres. Carter, Sen. Schumer, etc., those "establishment" Dems have done more for this country, and the world, than Bernie has done his whole life.

Hell, I've done more our country than Bernie ever did.

[Fran2020]

39. Not spin. Bernie is anti-establishment. The establishment wants to stop him.

The establishment, Wall Street, wealthy donors, try to stop his progressive policies because they don't want to end the gravy train. Bernie wants pro-worker and pro-union policies that take on the establishment.

[dware]

44. LOL.

This is pure comedy.

[dware]

45. And just for the record,

I've done more for this country than Bernie has done in his whole life.

[awesomerwb1]

77. YAWN

[showblue22]

50. FDR was a free trader and a capitalist

I think Bernie is wrong on NAFTA TPP and trade

[uponit7771]

93. Gas lighting is rude

[DiverDave]

109. And joe hasn't?

You think you have a solid point, but you have nothing.
Biden has voted for the rich. Period.

[dware]

112. LOL.

Joe has done more for the American people than Bernie ever has, that's a fact.

Hell, I've done more for this country than Bernie ever has.

[DiverDave]

113. Sure he has

How about voting for the bankruptcy bill?
THAT was a vote for the banks in Delaware.
Not the American people.
Face it. He is a dlc republican.
Lol. I would laugh but this, and you, ain't funny.

[grantcart]

23. Lol FDR was a reform capitalist who ran on a balanced budget policy

CCC and other emergency measures were intended as temporary measures.

His most lasting (and modest) structural reform, Social Security, is a self funded benefit, not a socialist plan.

Creating massive wartime production created large scale consumption and the basis for modern capitalism.

Roosevelt, whose family was in the 1% since 1830s, was the savior of modern capitalism.

You probably meant to call for the return to the socialist reforms of McGovern (100% inheritance tax) who one exactly one state, or Mondale, who, like Sanders, promised an increase in middle class taxes and also one exactly one state.

How about instead of over promising and under delivering we identify substantial workable reforms that are politically doable and can be financed by taxes on the rich, you know like what Obama did.

[OhZone]

35. FDR was VERY ESTABLISHMENT.

[Blue_true]

68. We constantly see the modern re-creation of what FDR was and like a lot of Bernie's

proposals, there is major fantasy involved.

[Dem4Life1102]

38. FDR values?

Values like turning a blind eye to segregation, illegally interning Japanese Americans, setting the minimum age for Social Security at 65 when the average life expectancy was 62 and creating the military industrial complex? Those values?

[Fran2020]

40. New Deal values. Economic progressive values.

"I welcome their hatred" values.

[Dem4Life1102]

41. The New Deal

was executed in a segregationist way. Those values?

[Fran2020]

42. No. The economic values of taking on the wealthy class and supporting

workers and unions.

[Dem4Life1102]

43. What Democrats don't support

workers and unions?

[mcar]

64. Good question

[Dem4Life1102]

65. I'm only aware of one campaign that attacked a union recently.

And of only one President who threatened to use the military to end a union’s strike. FDR in 1943.

[progressoid]

103. Biden's very first fundraiser included a union-busting law firm.

In April of 2109, Joe Biden intended to launch his presidential campaign at the Teamsters Local 249 in Pittsburgh with United Steelworkers President Leo Gerard appearing alongside him.

However, first, on Thursday, Biden hosted a $2,800 dollar-a-plate fundraiser at the mansion of Comcast Executive President David Cohen in Philadelphia. Among the dozen select political power players on the host committee for Biden’s 1st fundraiser was Steven Cozen, founder and chairman of the union-busting law firm Cozen O’Connor.

According to Cozen O’Connor website, the firm specializes in union busting advertising that it helps employers to “avoid unionization through positive employee relations and regain nonunion status when employees indicate they no longer wish to be union-represented”.



https://www.inquirer.com/news/joe-biden-philadelphia-comcast-fundraiser-david-l-cohen-2020-20190426.html

[Dem4Life1102]

104. And what actions has Biden taken to bust unions

Otherwise it’s just guilt by association.

[progressoid]

105. You asked, "What Democrats don't support workers and unions?"

Taking money from a lawyer who makes money fighting unions and workers rights - enough money to afford to attend a $2800 per plate private dinner - is the opposite of supporting unions.

[Dem4Life1102]

106. No that is guilt by association

Show any actions Biden has taken that hurts unions.

[progressoid]

107. Call it what you like but

I don't see dining with and taking money from a Union buster as a good thing. Especially since unions are shrinking every year, no thanks in part to people like him and his ilk.

[Dem4Life1102]

111. I call it what it is

And unless you can point to specific actions by Biden, you have no valid argument.

[Blue_true]

71. So the Japanese were imprisoned simply for being Japanese and their

businesses and other property was taken. The plight of Blacks was ignored. Social Security was a tentative program where FDR ignored the advisor that wanted a far more encompassing program. Some industries prevented workers from striking and FDR was ok with that. You mean THOSE economic values?

[betsuni]

75. +1

[treestar]

89. With the backdrop of the Depression

none of that would have passed in ordinary times.

[Blue_true]

98. There is a substantial element of Bernie's core support that relishes the collapse of society,

that, in their skewed thinking, will bring about the revolution quicker.

[Kahuna7]

56. Not true. They held me up during the Great Recession with...

99 never seen before weeks of unemployment insurance. An extra $25 dollars added to it, to help stimulate the recovery. WIA job training programs that allowed me to get paid even after my unemployment ran out.

They brought the economy back to health after the Great Recession in record time. They had programs to help homeowners to refinance and keep their homes.

LBJ gave us the war on poverty which included Medicaid, Medicare, food stamps, Head Start, Job Corps, VISTA and Title I.

As far as the FDR trope goes, FDR implement the social safety net that were necessary following the Great Depression. That situation doesn't exist right now.

[mcar]

63. Funny how Sanders supporters

keep needing to tell us what Bernie really meant.

[awesomerwb1]

79. You apparently haven't even bothered to

do a search on FDR. I guarantee you FDR was not who the bernie camp is telling you he was. It's absolutely laughable.
Hook, line and sinker.

[Meadowoak]

81. +1

[Happy Hoosier]

8. So, right after he trashes Democrats...

... he says “we’re going to come together.”

That’s not how that works.

[Sloumeau]

9. So, apparently President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden were ignoring...

"the working class and the middle class in this country" when they worked together to help rescue the country from the Great Recession. In addition, they were apparently ignoring those people when they got the ACA (Obamacare) passed, giving healthcare to tens of millions of working-class and middle-class Americans. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has yet to get a major bill passed that helps working class or middle-class Americans. So, tell us again, Senator Bernie Sanders, who exactly has been ignoring working class and middle-class Americans, and who exactly has worked to help them?

[emmaverybo]

14. +10000

[grantcart]

16. That's why he wanted to primary them in 2012

Talk about narcissistic asses

[squirecam]

60. Bernie had a different tune in 2016.

https://m.

[peequod]

80. 4 years was a long time ago politically speaking

And the positions that Joe, *as a presidential candidate*, have taken show that he's a centrist Dem who still believes he can work with Republican lawmakers to return to a stale-mated status quo, where incremental change may or may not happen. That is unacceptable to me and that is why I'm all for Sanders.

[jmg257]

11. Sheesh - so now AA aren't part of the working or middle-class??? WTF?

Is this guy crazy?

[TwilightZone]

12. "South Carolina doesn't matter because we won't win it in November."

That's ridiculous, of course, but that's a familiar mantra of Sanders supporters, one in this very thread.

[Walleye]

31. Tired of all talking points

[treestar]

88. That is so damned illogical

It is worthy of Dotard. I mean, just plain stupid. The Southern states still have the highest black populations, so the D primary is one chance to have a say for them.

[emmaverybo]

15. It's how he thinks. And how he thinks is a problem. He stereotypes AA people.

[jmg257]

19. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But the more I hear him and his surrogates,
I say No thank you.

[progressoid]

108. Of course African Americans are part of the middle-class. Just a much smaller part.

[Squinch]

17. .

[Happy Hoosier]

20. Neither Sanders nor his supporters....

seem to understand how this comes off as a big FUCK YOU to people who have worked hard for Democrats.

[Walleye]

32. True dat

[BlueWI]

54. Actually, some Democrats don't mind this message.

There are genuine differences of opinions on whether structural change is needed on economic, environmental, and health issues, and Sanders' popularity indicates this. The purpose of a primary is to air out those differences, and contrasts can be expected. Even the New York Times frequently refers to establishment Democrats - it's not just Sanders.

The problem is when sides can't unite to maximize electoral strength for the GE. We're going to need to do this in a few months, and it may be to support a non-preferred candidate.


It's a challenge to give and accept harsh critique, but we all need to do it while keeping the GE and Trump in mind.

[Happy Hoosier]

57. Maybe some don't...

But I do, and a lot of actual Democrats I know do.

I'll it's pretty terrible politics to poke your potential allies and supporters in the eye time and again.

It's one thing to air out differences. It's another thing to be a jerk about it.

[BlueWI]

66. Maybe some don't?

Some definitely don't, and some definitely do.

Fortunately, we have a choice of who to vote for in the primary, and we are wiser to keep the larger goals in mind of winning in the GE and, IMO, meeting the critical need for structural change that can build a better future. Both Warren and Sanders are emphatic about the need for major change, and I agree with their perspective that the scale of solutions has to match the scale of the problems. If the more moderate wing of the party truly got this message, the left wing of the party would be far less effective in their critiques.

Beyond that, it's all semantics. There's plenty of criticism and bad behavior to go around - best to let it go, learn from each other, and win the GE.

[Happy Hoosier]

96. I'll vote for him in the GE if he gets the nom....

But I've been insulted enough that I can never be enthusiastic about him.

[dustyscamp]

58. 1+

[still_one]

78. I think they do understand, and they are issuing a big FU to people who have worked hard for Democra

When the Sanders campaign hired Jill Stein supporter Briahna Joy Gray, and Hillary hating David Sirota and Nina Turner, they made that very clear.

[uponit7771]

94. +1,

[LizBeth]

24. Sanders is factually wrong and why I dislike him so. Democrats have been fighting for all the stuff

he has put out and has accomplished those goals more than Sanders ever came close to all those years he had in congress.

[evertonfc]

26. Has Bernie ever held a job?

serious question

[dware]

27. I think he was a carpenter at one time,

but according to his co-workers, he was a lousy carpenter.

[LizBeth]

34. A handy man, and lousy at it. Even this little job he made more of a title of it than what it is.

[dware]

36. Thanks,

wasn't quite sure what civilian job he had held.

[LizBeth]

46. He says writer, but that would be the guy mag that discussed rape fantasy. Also worked a small

amount of time aide at a psychiatric hospital, as a Head Start preschool teacher.

[Me.]

49. Like Jesue?

[dware]

67. LOL. nt

[Blue_true]

72. He was a shitty carpenter that could not pay his bills. nt

[Hortensis]

30. Blatant lies. I've been a working middle class voter

for my entire adult life and would never support a party like that. People whose ignorance makes them eager suckers for cynical, despicable lies should realize that not everyone is by a long shot. Representatives have to represent, and the reality is that by far most voters with Democratic representatives who are paying attention LIKE them.

And most people react very poorly to being lied to by politicians, as is only smart and sensible. Lying always means the wannabe deceiver knows you won't like the truth when it's sprung on you too late.

[betsuni]

48. +1

[Me.]

33. As Part Of The Establishment Himself, What Has He Done...Effectively?

[dware]

37. Not a damned thing. nt

[betsuni]

47. "I'm part of the Democratic leadership" but somehow not part of the establishment.

So the Obama administration ignored the working and middle class? The Democratic majority in the House is ignoring the working and middle class? Going to a wealthy person's house and receiving a contribution makes one corrupt?

We never hear any proof of these things. An endless loop of baseless accusations.

[mzmolly]

51. Union member of the working class for Biden

right here.

[Cha]

83. Mahalo, mzmolly!

[mzmolly]

100. Hi Cha!!

[Lunabell]

53. Well, this working class hero can tell you

the economy doesn't work for me. And I do feel left behind.

[Laelth]

55. This thread. I swear.

Bernie is neither my first, nor my second, choice for our 2020 nominee, but gracious! I am at least realistic enough to accept that I might have to line up and vote for him in November. I certainly don’t despise him in the way some people on this thread seem to.

Chill peeps! Believe it or not, we really are on the same team (even if team sports are not Bernie’s forte).



-Laelth

[squirecam]

59. That's not what Bernie said in 2016.

https://m.

[betsuni]

76. Wow. Thank you for the reminder!

[mcar]

62. Why doesn't Bernie take on Republicans?

[Blue_true]

73. Looks like hammering democrats is more fun for some reason. nt

[mcar]

85. So much for the pledge

[Blue_true]

97. Bernie seems to be conditional, what works for him is ok.

If Super Tursday doesn't go well for him and it starts to look like Biden will come into the convention with the most pledged delegates and the highest vote total, let's see how fast Bernie changes his insistence that the pledged delegate and popular vote leader be given the party's nomination unconditionally.

[ArtTownsend]

69. He's more right than he is wrong.

[Cha]

84. No he is Not.

[NYMinute]

70. Tilting at windmills

Biden has a longer record of helping unions and the working class.

Bernie? He named two post offices in 30 years.

[Scurrilous]

82. His proclamations never come true.

He said in 2016 that his staying in the race past sell date would engage voters and cause excitement which would carry over into the GE and defeat Trump. Nope.

Said in 2016 his 'Our Revolution' PAC would focus on 'nothing less than transforming the Democratic Party and the country.' No and no. Just another PAC, now mired in controversy.

Claimed no Blue Wave.

And he will be a tremendous burden.

[treestar]

87. He has not

One Senator - that's what Bernie is, so the same can be said of him.

[Evergreen Emerald]

90. Bernie IS establishment. How can he pretend to be anything else?

[Blue_Tires]

92. How many more times is he allowed to get away

with spewing this bullshit unchallenged? It's getting stale.

Sanders should be banned from saying "establishment" ever again unless he's willing to name names and explain why...

[Doreen]

101. Ignored them??

Is that why employment rose under Obama and Biden? Sure it was a slow climb but it did happen.

What does Bernie ( anyone ) think Biden did for 8 years with Obama, sit with his thumb up his ass and did nothing to help Obama?

[LakeArenal]

102. This once middle class then paycheck to paycheck class now

Retired and fixed class...go Joe!!!