This "The Establishment" talk is old and tired.

[madaboutharry]

It is not only alienating, it is hypocritical.

What is the establishment that Bernie speaks of? Is it the establishment that gave Americans the 8 hour a day 5 day work week? Or is it the establishment that gave Americans Social Security, Medicare, OSHA, public schools, voting rights, and reproductive rights? Is it the establishment that works hard to protect our rights to speak freely? Is it the establishment that gave us Supreme Court Justices who fight every day to keep those protections in place? Is it the establishment that fought tooth and nail to give us and then save ObamaCare even though republicans continue to do everything they can to destroy it? Is it the establishment that came together to impeach a corrupt and evil man masquerading as a president? Is it the establishment that is now fighting with all its might to save our democracy?

Or is it the establishment that has given Bernie Sanders the opportunity to serve for decades in the U.S. House and then the Senate, run for president twice, and make millions from a book attacking the very system that allowed him all of his privilege?

Yeah, it must be that "Establishment."

[hlthe2b]

1. I think some Bernie supporters really don't realize HOW ALIENTATING.

It is a big mistake, IMO.

[DownriverDem]

7. For sure

I know Dems who will vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination, but will do nothing to help him. Say hello to trump's second term.

[Magoo48]

79. Perhaps the big mistake is supporting candidates who are totally unprepared

to handle the immediacy of Climate Catastrophe and lack the imagination to rally US citizens behind the societal evolution required to avert calamity. The next two presidential terms encompass the entirety of the remaining timeframe, according the the best science available, to address impending disaster.

[hlthe2b]

81. Perhaps the big mistake is tactics that ensure a candidate you might believe best for this...

will not get the votes and support they need? DENIAL certainly includes those who bite off their nose to spite their face... Likewise, those who go out of their way to alienate everyone needed for success--or allow their spokespeople to do so. For the record, I've not seen Warren doing so. But Sander's people, yes.

[JudyM]

83. Obama didn't get the votes he needed either. The way it works is to put what you want out there

and try to hammer it out. But if you start from a place that’s more conservative, you’re negotiating against the very progress you purport to be aiming for. Aiming high is the way I think we have to go. This is the fundamental difference.

[hlthe2b]

84. Why, JudyM are you suggesting Biden won't act on climate?

It was Obama-Biden who negotiated the Paris accords, after all. Geebus.

[JudyM]

88. Never said that.

It’s the matter of urgency and extent. It will require reframing our economy away from oil and toward renewable energy, etc. It demands big planning and big ‘asks’ from the other side of the aisle. That’s not going to succeed without massive community engagement/mobilization. It will be a battle because they will not cede their donors’ position. We need a team of warriors.

We cannot just fix what trump has broken, we are too far behind.

[hlthe2b]

89. The post is about derision re: "the establishment"... So, who exactly do you believe to be

the establishment? And, why do you believe that is a good way to unite the party behind whomever you believe to be the "non-establishment?" My issue is on the alienation one campaign's spokespeople are engaged in as a tactic.

[JudyM]

90. Ok

I was referring to your comment about votes, in your response to magoo48’s excellent post. That’s all.

[hlthe2b]

91. That poster's "excellent" post was similarly off target/off-tangent to the OP subject and my post.

[hlthe2b]

85. So you suggest Biden is totally unprepared to hand the immediacy of Climate Catastrophe?!

Might I remind you that it was Obama-Biden who helped negotiate the Paris accords?

My gawd some here have bad memories and a bizarre understanding of what has occurred. Good luck when we get 4 more years of Trump rather than the "establishment"

[Magoo48]

98. Yes, un willing and unprepared.

[hlthe2b]

99. What a completely uninformed response.

Utter bullshit.

[Mike 03]

2. Especially this one:

the establishment that came together to impeach a corrupt and evil man

[DownriverDem]

3. It sure is getting old

Bernie attacking the Dem Party disgusts me on oh so many levels.

[C_U_L8R]

4. It's a means to splinter the great masses of the Democratic Party

Hey, it worked for Trump

It won't be working here. Not if we can help it.

[redstatebluegirl]

6. I will fight that with every ounce of my strength.

He is a pox on our party with his divisive rhetoric and his in your face bullying.

[handmade34]

5. Old Hippie talk

to be sure there are many of us here... me included

[Walleye]

17. Same here.

[calimary]

47. Here, as well.

[handmade34]

57. I still keep this poster on my wall

[Hermit-The-Prog]

69. I can't read the fine print any more, but the headlines look fine. :D

[brush]

34. Yep, straight out of the 60s. It was a campus radical buzzword back then.

[Rorey]

39. It's like young people today think this is all a new concept

And "revolution"? I'm on board if the "r" gets dropped. "Evolution"

Of course some things need immediate attention, but in a major upheaval, such as in a revolution, needless harm is also done.

[Walleye]

52. Well, you know, we all wanna change the world

[Rorey]

54. I do, with maximum progress, but minimal damage

We can't afford any more damage after the last the years.

[Walleye]

56. And "If you want money for people with minds that hate

All I can tell you is brother you have to wait. Also, when you talk about destruction, don’t you know you can count me out.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. Bernie's taking a beating on the Establishment issue

Link to tweet

David Plouffe
@davidplouffe
I’d be careful about maligning anyone who is not currently with you as part of a corrupt establishment. You’ll need some of them to be the nominee and all of them to win the Presidency.

_______________________

"Establishment" is straight from the 1960s.

[calimary]

45. BINGO!

[aikoaiko]

9. No, he is talking about the current party establishment.

Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2020, 12:33 PM - Edit history (1)

The ones that think credit card companies need more protecting from families who go into debt.

The ones who support civil forfeiture laws.

The ones who don't think college debt needs to be eliminated.

The ones who are ok with a health care system that millions can't afford and can go bankrupt even when insured.

The ones who thought it was a good idea at the time to let George Bush declare war on Iraq if he wanted.

[zipplewrath]

13. This

And more

[showblue22]

14. There are very few democrats that are the way you described

We just don't believe Bernie is the one who can fix it. It takes being able to bring people together to pass laws.

[brutus smith]

66. They made fun of Bernie's platform, they don't endorse it.

[showblue22]

74. They don't endorse the path.

[SCantiGOP]

27. Best post I've seen in weeks, aikoaiko

I’m backing Biden now, but glad I voted for Bernie in the SC primary.
Anyone who thinks there isn’t an Establishment wing and a Progressive wing of the Democratic Party hasn’t been paying attention for the past century

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

36. BIIIIIINNGGOOOOO!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Luciferous]

53. Great post!

[calimary]

58. That wouldn't be the same party under whose banner he's chosen to run, a second time?

Whose campaign infrastructure and operatives he chooses to take full advantage of, whose email lists and funding and intel he chooses to access and exploit?

If he hates our party so much, why does he keep trying to win our nomination? And if he keeps wanting to play with our stuff every four years, but then kick us to the curb when we don’t crown him king, and abandon our name and banner to go back to being an independent again?

Seems like he wants it both ways. Are you ON the bus or OFF the bus, Bernie?

For me, personally, it’s just mighty hard to consider embracing someone who’s made a nice long living insulting my party of choice and complaining nonstop about how lousy it is. But then he turns around and expects a coronation by that same party he hates and insults and complains about. That quickly becomes personal to this lifelong Democrat.

I’ll do it if I have to. I’ll vote for Bernie if he gets our nomination. I took the Indivisible Pledge - vote blue no matter who. But I’d be far more comfortable with another genuine Democrat, not a “Democrat” of convenience, a “Democrat” in name only.

[aikoaiko]

82. yes it is. He wants to make the Democratic Party better.

And a lot, maybe not a majority, but a sizable number of Democratic Primary voters, agree with him.

[LanternWaste]

59. A 30-year career, millionaire politician is inherently The Establishment

Pretending otherwise may fool his flock, but I ain't planning on getting flocked by him any time soon.

[aikoaiko]

70. But not necessarily Democratic Party establishment.

Pretending otherwise would make one look worse than foolish.

[Locrian]

60. THIS why is ths so hard to understand?

The ones who howl about lost (parasitic) healthcare insurance jobs but silent for the 50,000 who die each year?

The ones who bail out banks and companies but not the general population?

The ones who approve 2 trillion in tax cuts for corporations to buy back stocks?

The ones who have to be prodded to even think of action on climate change if it affects "business"?

[ehrnst]

62. About letting GWB do what he wanted in Iraq...

Bernie voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.

States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[elleng]

76. thanks

[DURHAM D]

10. It is left over from the 1960s -

"Don't Trust Anyone Over 30"

[el_bryanto]

11. I think it's the establishment that fights for a crumbs

while leaving big corporate power untouched. Or that is what I mean when I refer to the establishment.

Bryant

[wyldwolf]

12. Just wait. They haven't pulled out "corporate whore" and "oligarch" yet

[MineralMan]

15. There was a lot of negative talk about "The Establishment" back in the 60s.

That was more than half a century ago. The "Establishment" woke up, so you didn't hear that so much any more in later decades. Until now, when a man of the 1960s is trying to use that negative image once again.

[Deb]

16. When will Bernie give up his "Establishment" given committee seats?

Hmmm?

[calimary]

48. Bingo!

[Happy Hoosier]

18. Bernie has had the same act for decades. NT

[aikoaiko]

22. That's mostly because the same big problems exist over all those decades.

[Happy Hoosier]

23. I disagree. The world is dynamic.

And Bernie sticks to the same script whatever the problem.

I always feel like I am listening to a 70's Marxist screed when I hear Bernie. Everything is traced back to class struggle. Of course, leftist thinking has moved beyond such simplicities, but not Bernie.

[Rorey]

42. He appeals to the emotions of idealistic people

For votes. There's no chance of implementation.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

38. 100%!! Bernie, as usual, is the only one talking about those big problems...

Not to worry though, President Sanders will finally tackle them!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[2naSalit]

19. Maybe he means established PARTY!

Jesus, he's not a Dem, he doesn't like us but he's also willing to hack the party to pieces.

[calimary]

49. Indeed. It's been noticed. Rather glaringly.

[Desert grandma]

20. It seems "The Establishment" refers to center/moderate candidates.

Have people forgotten that the big reason we took the House in 2018 because red seats were flipped to blue by moderate/center candidates? Candidates endorsed by Bernie and AOC progressives did not do too well except in areas that were already deep blue. That is the main reason I support Biden. We need to keep the House and possibly gain seats in the Senate. Based on the results of 2018, I believe Biden will do this while Bernie will be defeated and we lose the gains we made in 2018 with Bernie at the to of the ticket.

[honest.abe]

21. Seems like everyone is the "establishment" except for Bernie's gang.

[2naSalit]

67. +1

[IronLionZion]

24. Those were from more leftist times

FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, would have a hard time getting their policies implemented today.

[relayerbob]

25. It's not 1968 any more

He really needs to evolve a little bit.

[OnDoutside]

26. 52 years later, it's a bit unlikely at this stage ?

[relayerbob]

35. He's had a long time to make his case

But, we need 21st Century solutions, not 20th century slogans

[calimary]

51. Indeed.

[OnDoutside]

71. Well said.

[betsuni]

95. Well said.

[nolabear]

28. It's what he can sell to the youngers. It plays on adolescent rebellion.

I don’t say that facetiously. “Adolescence” lasts a long time, the need to believe your parents screwed it up and you’re WAY smarter and see things so much more clearly than those establishment fools who screwed up in ways you never would. It’s just a natural part of separation/individuation.

But it’s not real. As soon as you step into the place of power you find out that you’re human, you have limitations, and others who have different opinions don’t fall down in a fit of realization that if they had ONLY done it your way there would be no obstructions to your goals.

He works that. It really spoils the potential of some decent ideals.

[beachbumbob]

31. got take advantage of the computer game addicted generations right?

[nolabear]

33. Oh I don't think they're worse than any other generation.

The world just lets them have too much power too young. We all had our obsessions and felt much the same way. We just had limits on how much we could access and so our vulnerability wasn’t so easily accessed and manipulated.

[beachbumbob]

29. I like to review all of sander's day jobs over the past 40 years. How many did he have

where the paycheck came from a "non-govt source"?

I know since 1981 its all been taxpayers money he has been paid. Not bad, 39 years of not working for the "MAN" in a day job like almost all the rest of us have to do

[redqueen]

30. Wellstone warned us. Now people don't even know what he was talking about.

What happened to my party?

[jalan48]

61. We're living in a corporate state and some think it's still

Me Smith Goes to Washington. Willful ignorance.

[redqueen]

94. I wish I could disagree. nt

[Gore1FL]

77. We've become afraid of our own ideals.

We've come to believe Republican talking points.

Since Mondale's loss in 1988, we've tripped all over ourselves to (unsuccessfully) appeal the the Susan-Collins-type voter at the expense of our natural allies on the left.

I'm sure I can come up with more. Things we did in the 1970's (taxing billionaires, building infrastructure, providing affordable education, etc.) are considered "too liberal" and "unaffordable" now.

It's infuriating.

[redqueen]

93. It really is. nt

[House of Roberts]

32. Establishment? Then and Now?

Name me the 'Establishment' office holder that was in office when ANY of the things you want to credit the CURRENT 'Establishment' for giving us went into effect.

[Gore1FL]

78. +1 nt

[PatSeg]

37. It is a catch-all word to describe

anyone who disagrees with him or hinders his progress. If you don't agree with every one of his policies, its because you are part of the "establishment". Kind of reminds me of Trump's "deep state".

[Zambero]

40. Democrats rallying behind a fellow Democrat

Yes, how very "troubling". I for one would prefer to have a president who has a track record of getting things done, as a measure of what to hope for in the years ahead. The tired old "establishment" pejorative label, as oft-repeated by Trump circa 2016 and Sanders full-time, smacks of ditching coalitions and "blowing up the system" with little or no regard for consequences. One of the most dire consequences is a self-defeating division that allows the far right to seize control of the government without a mandate, as witnessed in 2000 and again in 2016. I among others know full well that those elections were stolen, but "close enough to steal" is still close enough for a legitimate winner to lose.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. Chicken or egg? He eschewed the Establishment or vice versa?

[ouija]

46. Establishment people

Don’t realize that if Sanders is screwed again, his supporters might just not vote in the next election.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

63. So it's a one way street

[GulfCoast66]

72. So now losing the vote is being screwed?

[Farmer-Rick]

43. It's the filthy rich...that is the establishment.

The establishment are those in power right now. It includes All the filthy rich.

Just look at those people who have stolen more wealth than they could ever spend in a lifetime. They are very much afraid of Bernie because he is Not one of them.

They rig our economy and use our politicians as cover to abuse the majority of Americans. Their stolen wealth creates for them more wealth by underpaying you and making you carry the tax load.

They are greedy, hatefilled and few. We can vote them out.

[calimary]

44. Hell YEAH! Again, how is it that an individual who's been in elected office

IN Washington DC, ON Capitol Hill, from 1991 to this very hour - how is such an individual NOT part of “the establishment”?

Somebody’s gotta help me understand the reasoning there.

If you’re truly “anti-establishment,” doesn’t it follow that you maintain a DISTANCE from that entity and avoid being any part of it or maintaining a job title or long-running position of prominence within it?

[ouija]

50. So

Bernie is part of the establishment now??? The Democratic establishment is full of Republican refugees at the moment and call me crazy, but I’m pretty sure Sanders is not one of them.

[Politicub]

55. It's ridiculous to attack the party whose banner you are under.

And, I think it sounds ignorant to talk about insiders when one has been in office for decades. That's about as insider as it gets.

Another word for insider is experienced. I value experience, and it is especially important as the next administration repairs the damage that Trump has done. I don't want outrage and drama every day. I've had enough of that.

Just because someone appends the word socialist to his party affiliation doesn't mean that they're not a Washington insider.

[Pepsidog]

64. Yes it is. Dems must stay united

[Happy Hoosier]

65. The millionaire with three houses who has been in Congress 30 years....

... calling other people "the establishment" is priceless.

Bernie has made a profession of pretending not to be a professional gadfly.

[redstatebluegirl]

80. This!

[Sogo]

68. Good points.

Bernie is stuck in the sixties mode of rebellion.....You know, "don't trust anybody over 30...."

I truly believe he thinks that if/when he is President, the way he intends to accomplish things is for there to be demonstrations in the streets all the time, or as he says, "when millions of Americans rise up....blah, blah, blah...."

[Vivienne235729]

73. It is the same establishment that Bernie, himself, has been in for 30 yrs.

And has done NOTHING w his 30 yrs. But, somehow, that's ok. The hypocrisy is stunning.

[corbettkroehler]

75. Rolling Stone Headline: "Operating Bernie Block Is In Full Effect"

Link to tweet

[gollygee]

87. It isn't blocking him if people vote for someone else

Huge sense of entitlement to think you're being blocked if people vote the way they want and not for you.

[Ilsa]

86. Black voters in SC put Biden in the lead.

Is the Sanders' campaign saying the black vote is establishment?

[Blue_Tires]

96. co-signed...

I've been waiting for some to give me a proper definition of "establishment" and it hasn't come yet

[betsuni]

97. Used by people who blame Democrats for what Republicans do.

The Republican Party has become radical corrupt and nutty over the last forty years. I'm sick and tired of this "both sides" stupidity. A Democrat makes a gaffe or can't see into the future when they vote on something and they're put in the same binder as the Republicans. Things don't get done in government by how much one is angry or fights or wants it. There are rules. I'm tired of how feelings and emotion has replaced thinking, facts.