Senator Bernard Sanders (I-Vermont) Seems Concerned

[MineralMan]

about Democratic candidates withdrawing from the primary race and endorsing another Democratic candidate, Joe Biden. Calling that "the Establishment coming together," it's clear he is worried that he might not become the Democratic presidential nominee if a lifelong Democrat gets broad support from other Democrats.

I'm a Democrat, Senator Sanders. You could have become one, too, years ago, but you didn't. Now, you are a Democrat, but only because you had to say you were to run for the Democratic nomination. It just doesn't work that way, sir.

[PubliusEnigma]

1. Bernie is too good for the Democratic Party. Until he needs us.

[JaneQPublic]

17. He loves to use those DNC microphones & DNC-sponsored publicity events...

...that made him a household name, even though they were funded with the dollars of card-carrying Dems and even some big-dollar contributors.

But, yeah, the Dem Party is evil and rigged against him.

[2naSalit]

58. +1

[Vivienne235729]

83. +1

[betsuni]

114. +1

[dalton99a]

33. He will not deign to register as a Democrat.

[thesquanderer]

95. I don't believe Vermont HAS party registration. n/t

[mcar]

103. Sen. Patrick Leahy?

[thesquanderer]

105. I'm not sure what your question is, but...

...there is no party registration in Vermont.

https://votesmart.org/elections/voter-registration/VT#.Xl6hQZNKjsk

That doesn't mean that the party can't have candidates.

[jalan48]

98. Probably his supporters too. We don't need their votes right?

[MineralMan]

2. And with that said, I'm off to my polling place with my wife,

to cast our primary votes for Joe Biden in the proud state of Minnesota. I'll be back later.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

6. I just did, MM.....

Pretty busy here in Rochester.

[MineralMan]

10. Good to hear. We're heading out at 9 AM.

I hope the polling place is crowded.

[mac56]

53. Pretty small lines here in Kanabec County

[MineralMan]

57. No line at our neighborhood polling place, but

there were cars parking as we left, so...

[el_bryanto]

3. I do wonder how many people who so strongly despise Bernie will vote for him

Given the level of venom directed towards him and his supporters. I support him or Warren, but if it does end up being Joe Biden or even Bloomberg I'll vote for the Democratic nominee.

Bryant

[Celerity]

5. Many will not, if he wins the nomination. That is a massive part of the problem

he faces, and by proxy, we face. I will certianly vote for him, but how many are like me, who knows.

[MineralMan]

8. I have voted for the Democratic nominee in every presidential election,

beginning in 1968. I will not change that, because I am a Democrat. It's pretty simple, really. I do not believe that Senator Bernard Sanders (I-VT) will be the nominee. If, by some chance, he is, I will vote for the Democratic nominee once again.

[SergeStorms]

94. Same here MM......

I've been voting since 1968 myself, and can proudly say I've only voted for one republican in my life: My father. He was a Republican judge until 1994 and the only republican I ever voted for in my life. I could have written in someone else I suppose, since we lived in a very red area of NY and he ran unopposed almost every time.

[redstatebluegirl]

12. I don't expect he will be the nominee, but if he is I will vote for him.

I have held my nose before to vote for a Democrat I didn't like, but any Democrat is better than the alternative.

[Demsrule86]

13. I hope you are not suggesting that Du'ers won't vote for Sander should he win the nomination.

I vote blue no matter who. I resent this 'concern' on your part. Particularly galling when polling show Sanders supporters on record as vowing to not vote for any Democratic nominee but only Sanders. Take the plank out of your eye, my friend.

[el_bryanto]

37. Oh - i'm curious - when did I say I wouldn't vote for anybody but Sanders?

You answer that and I'll get that plank out of my eye quick as a lick.

[calimary]

71. It's not you so much as it is the track record of 2016

and the sore losers who chose to throw their votes AND our country away in spite votes for Jill Stein and other “busts” in the “Bernie or bust” reaction.

They did. It happened. We noticed. I’ll never forget the guy my husband knew, with the Bernie bumper sticker on the back of his car, who, after Hillary was nominated, slapped a Jill Stein sticker over it, at an angle so you could still see enough of the “Bernie” wording underneath. I spotted that and decided I didn’t want to talk to him anymore.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

75. One more time: Sanders voters voted for Clinton at a higher rate

than Clinton voters voted for Obama.

[wnylib]

89. Source please?

[ehrnst]

111. "Higher rate"

What is your math behind that claim?

"Rate" is a specific mathematical definition.

[redstatebluegirl]

76. A guy I worked with did that as well. I haven't had much to do with him since.

[johnthewoodworker]

91. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016. Voted for Hillary in the GE. I'm a progressive, and like most,

voted for the democratic nominee. If people don't vote Bernie if he is the nominee, or, don't vote Biden if he is the nominee, we are screwed.
I have read that black people won't turn out for Bernie. Does that mean Hispanics won't turn out for Joe. Older dems might not vote for Bernie and younger dems might not vote for Joe. A primary is the time for discussion but don't predicate your choice on who will or won't score well with a particular demographic.

[redstatebluegirl]

93. I have always said I will vote for the nominee, no matter who it is.

I will hold my nose and vote for Bernie if he is that person. I still think we will lose with him, and lose big down ballot. But I have just been at this for 45 years what do I know.

The data says that 40 percent or more of the BS supporters will not vote for the nominee if they can't have Bernie. That is how we will lose.

[TwilightZone]

18. They're not the ones you should be worried about.

You should be more worried about Sanders supporters should Biden win the nomination.

Biden supporters (and all of the others except Sanders and Yang) have been quite clear that they will support the nominee, regardless.

https://www.newsweek.com/andrew-yang-bernie-sanders-supporters-wont-support-another-nominee-democratic-unity-msnbc-poll-1485241?utm=newsbreak

[awesomerwb1]

34. You got it backwards

The venom is coming from Bernie's supporters. The victim card is so overplayed by Bernie and his surrogates that it's getting ridiculous.

You calling people who just don't like his attitude "despising" him is quite a stretch. Almost disingenuous.

[el_bryanto]

38. You must be looking at a different DU than I am. nt

[MineralMan]

44. No, just looking with different eyes, really.

I've noticed that everyone has said they'd vote for the Democratic nominee who is supporting Joe Biden. Everyone. Maybe you haven't notices that. I've posted that dozens of times here.

[el_bryanto]

50. are you saying that everybody who is actually supporting the Democratic Nominee

is supporting Joe Biden? Or that Every supporter of Joe Biden has made it clear they would support Sanders (or whoever else the nominee is, but I think Sanders is the most problematic for a Biden supporter).

[MineralMan]

52. I am saying exactly what I said.

I have not seen any Biden supporter not claiming he or she will not vote for the Democratic candidate. I have seen some others, however, bypass that question when asked.

We are about to enter a period of having only two actually running candidates on future primary ballots.

[we can do it]

77. 😂😂😂😂😂

No really....

[awesomerwb1]

85. Nah bro

We're looking at the same thing, it's just you are looking at it with vastly different eyes.

You can only use the victim card so many times.

[el_bryanto]

86. Victim Card - that's an interesting turn of phrase

How am I playing the victim card?

Bryant

[awesomerwb1]

87. My last reply to you

You are playing the victim card by describing mild criticism/disagreement as people "despising" Bernard etc etc and etc.

Nice day.

[brush]

100. He's been attacking the party for years and you expect love back in return?

Please!

[Frances]

45. Agree

One reason my friends and I turned to Biden after agonizing for months is that Biden is not divisive and Bernie is. We will vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination because we are just plain Democrats

[DanieRains]

79. This Strong Bernie Supporter Can Barely Read These Threads

It appears no one here even knows why Bernie hasn't joined the Democratic Party.

We must all "come together" of course.

Fundamental change is not necessary. Small steps. Small steps. Americans can't have what most others have. Like universal healthcare, and affordable college.

While the entire planet is collapsing in a thousand ways due to the 1% running EVERYTHING IN AMERICA as their personal cash machines. Be careful what you wish for my friends. Trump is a symptom of the problem, not the problem. We seem to have forgot. Again. Most of our kids know how screwed they are.

I really like Joe, he is an incredible human and helped Obama a lot.

Will he bring the change the world needs? Can anyone? Probably not. The 1% owns the media, and Americans of all stripes are easily fooled. Never forget the 1% could pay our national debt off completely and they would still be rich as hell. It's not like Joe, or any of the others could ever mention this fact.

Good luck everyone. Vote. Fight. Win. Regardless who it is. With Trump the planet hasn't got a prayer.

[True Blue American]

66. Did you hear what Bernie said as he left the polls?

[oldtime dfl_er]

88. what did he say?

?

[True Blue American]

96. This

https://www.msnbc.com/hallie-jackson/watch/sanders-speaks-after-voting-in-home-state-vermont-79885381974

[Happy Hoosier]

55. Because Donald Trump?

I'm not a fan of Sanders. I think he has demonstrated some poor judgment and and complete lack of realism with regard to policy. And a big chunk of his supporters are obnoxious.

BUT. The President is Donald Trump. And the GOP is a corrupt nest of vipers. I'd even vote for Bloomberg over Trump and his merry band of assholes.

[Jarqui]

64. I don't despise him. I supported him in 2016 and still like him.

I remember 2016 pretty well. I was pretty ticked off about what went on in the DNC. Even Harry Reid said Bernie got a lousy deal. But I did eventually come to my senses that Trump needed to be beaten. We can't afford that this time. It's too important as Trump & the GOP are too corrupt. We have to clobber them to overcome the inevitable cheating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bernie_Sanders_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joe_Biden_2020_presidential_campaign_endorsements

If you look at the endorsements of the two candidates, Sanders has one Senator and one former Senator endorsing him. Biden has 9 Senators and 21 former Senators backing him. Sanders has 8 members from the House endorsing him and no past members. Biden has 54 members from the House endorsing him and many more past members of the house. Sanders has one past cabinet member endorsing him while Biden has 18 past members of the Cabinet endorsing him. Biden also has past White House officials, State Department officials, Ambassadors, Defense department officials, other Executive branch officials, Governors current & past, etc endorsing Biden where Sanders has none. Biden also has the lions share of Democratic candidates supporting him.

A lot of those folks either have skin in the game or had skin in the game. So it is not merely "establishment" folks.

The nominee has to pull those folks together because we're going to need unity more than ever coming out of this contest to beat the GOP cheaters.

Biden has established beyond any reasonable doubt that he is best positioned to pull the party together and get us rowing in the same direction to beat Trump.

If Sanders were to prevail, the vast majority of the party has no choice but to back him. But the signs of the headwinds Sanders faces are already laid bare to see. There's a reason for that: his policies promising the moon are going to be difficult to defend in a general election because of the massive spending they entail and the poor way Sanders has demonstrated how they would get paid for and he neglects to admit on how difficult they would be to pass. Think back to the hell of passing Obamacare and we don't even have control of the US Senate now that required 60 votes back then. Sanders has much more baggage the GOP can attack him on - they don't need to fabricate a Hunter Biden scandal to tear him down.

The policies Sanders talks about are wonderful. I like his platform more than any other candidate. But we're in a bad situation against a very corrupt administration. We need every edge or advantage we can muster to take Trump down ... and it still may not be enough. So this is not a time for an ambitious platform that exposes us to more GOP lies and attacks.

That's where I'm coming from on it and I suspect many feel similarly.

[Sogo]

90. I like your points, but IMO, his policies that you speak of....

will be IMPOSSIBLE to defend in the general....


"his policies promising the moon are going to be difficult to defend in a general election because of the massive spending they entail and the poor way Sanders has demonstrated how they would get paid for and he neglects to admit on how difficult they would be to pass."

[pampango]

99. Well said. And not vitriolic. :)

The policies Sanders talks about are wonderful. I like his platform more than any other candidate. But we're in a bad situation against a very corrupt administration.

It is possible to support a candidate for his or her ideas and character without being so selfish as to not support another good candidate and help Trump stay in office.

As someone posted above, the vast majority (not all) of the supporters of Biden, Warren, Bloomberg, et al would vote for Sanders; just as the vast majority (not all) of Sanders' supporters would vote for Biden. Vitriol directed at supporters of the 'other guy' serves the interests of Trump and the GOP by promoting divisions in the DP that are Trump's best hope for re-election.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

4. To earn the Democratic Nomination......

It helps to be a member of the party to carry the Party's banner, promote the Party ideals, not just your own.

I like a lot of what Bernie stands for. But if he wants my vote in November should he win the nomination, he needs to join the Democratic Party and uphold its ideals.

[janterry]

7. Going to cast my vote for him now

n/t

[redstatebluegirl]

14. Not Warren????

[janterry]

31. The only person I felt felt very strongly against

has been Biden - as I've written, I think he will lose.

But I'm in Vermont. We'll vote for our Senator. Had Warren had a chance, I would have voted for her.

[Demsrule86]

15. And here I thought you were a Warren supporter...I really didn't.

[janterry]

30. I'm in Vermont.

I like Sanders, too. If Warren had a chance, I'd vote for her. But we'll vote clearly for Sanders in this state.

We like him.

[karynnj]

41. If you are really for Warren, you would vote for her

She has a reasonable chance of being above 15 percent if the one poll done a few weeks ago is reasonably good. She had 9 then. However Buttigieg had 13 and Amy a small number. There were also 9 that must have been unsure. It is more likely the unsure were not Bernie than still considering him. I can not prove the last statement, but he is the more known candidate in VT.

A third of the delegates will be chosen today and a much smaller percent are already chosen. That means more than half are NOT yet chooses. Here is one scenario. Imagine Bloomberg under performs drastically enough that he either pulls out or might as well pull out as he fails to gain support. That leaves Sanders, Biden and Warren. She would be the underdog,but she might still be the compromise candidate.

[exboyfil]

80. Yes. Warren could very well be the compromise

candidate that comes out of a brokered convention. The more delegates she has, the more palatable the situation would be for those accepting her.

[Demsrule86]

102. That makes sense...

[Happyhippychick]

27. Oh my, I am shocked! I really, really, really thought you supported Warren!

Really!

[janterry]

32. I like Warren, I always have

But I'm in Vermont. We'll vote for our Senator. We like him (I like him .

[Happyhippychick]

63. Uh huh

[lapucelle]

67. "If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I'd vote for Elizabeth Warren."

That's what it says at the bottom of your post. You are voting today, but you're not voting for Warren?

[awesomerwb1]

36. Ooops

It's funny how they think no one will notice who their allegiance is with.

[Happyhippychick]

62. yep

[janterry]

115. such odd comments

I always say what I mean. I have liked her. But when it came to voting, it felt like Bernie was my best choice.

I don't regret that. I voted for him, as did most people in my town. had she done better, I would have voted for her.

[redstatebluegirl]

9. He doesn't want to be Democrat, he wants to destroy the party and bring it back in his image.

[wyldwolf]

11. He's actually what "progressives" used to call a DINO

[Demsrule86]

16. Awesome response and true.

[Hortensis]

19. If Sanders had denounced Russia and their fascistic Republican tools,

instead of accepting their aid and becoming a vital tool in their efforts to defeat Democrats, he could have then joined his Democratic colleagues gathered to stop our enemies from destroying us.

Btw, regarding this theme, the Sanders, Republican and Russian camps developed this kind of synergistic messaging, enormously important to Sanders, back in 2015. Listen to sources like Trump and RT to put out their own variations on this message. Whatever Sanders says against Democrats they augment many times over. SOP.

Russia's consideration that Sanders was an asset must have started back in the 1900s. Sanders has a long history of opposing Democrats to the benefit of Russia (aka, the former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics). His 2012 vote against the Magnitsky Act that very badly hurt Putin and his oligarchs was hardly the first time, and his 2017 vote against sanctions on Russia followed Russia's assistance to his campaign in 2016 but his pattern suggests he might have broken from his 98 other senate colleagues to make that vote way any time the past 3 decades.

Whatever. We now know Russia was so pleased in 2016 by the results of their investment in Sanders that they never stopped it but immediately went to work using him to create even bigger victories in 2020.

Sanders also immediately let it be known that he would BE running in 2020 and went to work on it himself. He came into this election with a surprisingly awesome operation, including enormously expensive and sophisticated data operations, that is far beyond anything his 30-year history in congress even began to suggest he could be capable of.

[MineralMan]

20. Trump has already called the new Democratic coalition "A Coup against Sanders"

So, you appear to be correct.

[Hortensis]

42. :) Heck, anyone could have slept through the past month and

still been correct in predicting that. SOP.

[we can do it]

21. I'm concerned he continually uses us actual Democrats when it benefits him.

And trashes is when he doesn’t get his way.
So tired of BS.

[MineralMan]

22. Apparently, more and more people are waking up to this.

A genuine Democratic wave has started to form on the horizon, and it looks like a big one.

[we can do it]

23. Hopefully enough to carry us through.

[MineralMan]

25. Today's 14 primaries represent only 1/3 of the delegates

who will go to the Convention. There are many more primaries left to be held.

As of yesterday, the race is much narrower in the number of candidates participating. Tomorrow and Thursday, it will probably narrow even further.

[we can do it]

29. Fingers crossed.

I want to be able to sleep again.

[GemDigger]

40. That's why I call him the Wham, Bam, Thank you ma'am, until I need you again guy. nt

[Dave in VA]

68. Exactly

He thinks of our party as his mistress. Doesn't want to be associated with us in public, but demands that we meet his immediate needs when convenient. I like a lot of Bernie's ideas, but just don't care for the messenger.

[Harker]

51. Not for long.

His future viability as a candidate for the presidency is practically nil.

This should be his last big push. It certainly comes at a critical time (again), though.

[Happy Hoosier]

24. His success depends upon those opposing him being divided.

Sound familiar?

[MineralMan]

26. Yes, it does sound familiar. But we won't make the Republicans' mistake.

[Legends303]

28. Sanders is still in a good position to get most of the delegates tonight

even though I will admit it will be smaller then anticipated. California is where most of the delegates are at, his ground game is way better in California and I don't think late endorsements is going to help.

[janterry]

35. I hope so

n/t

[George II]

39. I suppose now Americans are not supposed to endorse and support the candidate of their choice?

[aikoaiko]

43. Party uber alles. Nice, MM.

[MineralMan]

46. Presidential Elections are Binary Events.

So, yes. I am a Democrat. I always vote for Democrats. Always.

[aikoaiko]

54. And here I thought you were discussing the Democratic primaries.

[MineralMan]

56. After Super Tuesday, our primary elections are also going to be binary, I predict.

Until then, voters have several candidate from which to chose. That's how it works.

[MineralMan]

47. We're back from our polling place. Two more votes for Biden.

Light turnout, but more people were parking as we left.

[MineralMan]

49. OK. Vote as you choose, by all means.

This is not the same year, nor the same primary opponent. Biden is doing much, much better in 2020.

[BluNoMatterHu]

59. He's only a Democrat

...when it suits him. That’s not party loyalty.

[MineralMan]

61. Bernie Sanders has never claimed to be loyal to the Democratic Party.

He has usually voted with the Democratic Caucus in the House and Senate, but has stuck to his Independent label all along, even when he could have adopted the Democratic Party as his own.

Party loyalty is not part of Bernie's make-up. He stands where he stands.

[lapucelle]

70. Welcome to DU!

[bucolic_frolic]

60. Bernie Sanders is afraid a little democracy might break out

amongst all that Establishment-bashing he's been doing

[volstork]

65. Thank you.

Spot on.

[capechacon]

69. In some ways, Sanders reminds me of Trump..

Both come across as demagogic (especially Trump), both seem to encourage their followers to burn the house down rather than lose and both have senior staff that come across as snarky and "smarter-than-you-are."

I like most all of Sanders' policies...however, I have serious doubts about the man and his ability to push any of his agenda through to enactment.

[PatrickforO]

72. There is a silver lining in every cloud, and a cloud waiting to form

in every clear sky.

I have seen the rejoicing among many in the party when Buttigieg and Klobuchar bowed out of the race and endorsed Biden.

Now, it seems that everything is wonderful, and we can all skip through life's garden without care because the candidate of the center is going to win the nomination, and as everyone knows is the only one who can beat Trump.

That is the flow of thought.

There is a caution here. Bernie might still win. He's projected to come out of Super Tuesday with a plurality of delegates, and the showing Biden makes will signal his momentum in catching up.

So, if Bernie does win, will all of us support him as the nominee against Trump?

If Bernie loses, will all of us support Biden (or possibly Warren, though that is a truly long shot)?

I'd like to respectfully remind everyone here, progressive and center alike - a split in the party only helps one person. Vladimir Putin. That's why Putin did a couple things to 'help' Bernie and let it leak. That is why there is so much Jacobin rhetoric coming from the Sanders campaign. Young people for Sanders' base, and they are easy to stir up with hyperbole and strong rhetoric.

If Biden wins and they don't show to support him because young people are generally not enthused about him, will we still have enough votes to prevail? If Bernie gets the nod, will those in the center, who have signalled they are horrified at the prospect of Bernie losing against Trump - will they show up.

This last couple days has been pretty strange on here, but as Mike Shanahan used to tell the Broncos when they were behind, "Lots of football to play, still. Lots of football!" The primaries aren't over until they are over, and the candidate we're running against Trump won't necessarily be chosen until the convention.

I like Warren. A lot. And she might still do pretty well today. Bernie is likely to take CA. Biden will do will in some of the states. We'll see.

But, whatever happens, we will necessarily have to work together. If we want to keep this republic and not have it become an oligarchy, then we must win in November, and win big enough so we can reverse the cancer and put some reforms in place. Aggressively, because this nation has already slid pretty far down that old proverbial slippery slope.

So, folks, let's not allow ourselves to become too divided, because that is exactly what Putin wants. The Jacobin militancy of Bernie's supporters is bad, yes, but so is this smugness and jubilation of Biden supporters at the prospect of Bernie losing. Again, a divided Democratic party ONLY helps one person, and he isn't even an American.

[Kali]

73. "the Establishment coming together,"

other issues aside, that statement isn't untrue

[Rorey]

78. If/when he loses the nomination, and surely the presidency

He'll write books, give speeches....... become more rich.

This is a win/win scenario for Sanders.

Mark my words.

[jerrylp]

81. Back To Where We Were Before Reagan

Boy, the BOTs are really working overtime.

[the_sly_pig]

82. I love Bernie...

But will vote for anyone on the ticket. Let’s all support the candidate representing the left.

[Politicub]

84. If he doesn't like the party, I don't know why he is running under its banner.

It's kind of a bonkers strategy for the general election. But I think it makes people feel edgy to rail against an abstract "establishment".

I have changed my candidate perforce to Biden because it's time to unify. I didn't start out that way, and I don't agree with him on everything. But, I believe he has the experience and knowledge of how good government functions, which are critical for restoring our government. I believe in the ACA, and depend on it. It was always conceived as a platform on which to build and improve.

[TCJ70]

92. MineralMan (D-DU) seems smug. N/t

[MineralMan]

108. How so? The candidate I support is doing well. Why wouldn't I like that?

Smug? No. I have one vote, just like you do. I cast that vote this morning. Now, I wait.

[Sloumeau]

97. Is there anyone more "Democratic Establishment" than...

a Democratic President of the United States? Does Senator Bernie Sanders realize that if he were to become President, he would *be* the very embodiment of the Democratic Establishment? Does he realize that to get anything done, he would have to spend his entire Presidency horse-trading with members of the Democratic Establishment, and that if he does not treat those Democratic Establishment members with respect, none of his plans will come true?

Does he realize that in order for his plans to come to fruition, he would, at the very least, have to spend an inordinate amount of time kissing the asses of the very same Democratic Establishment that he has spent the last few decades disparaging?

[grantcart]

101. He's a visitor not a Democrat

If he were a Democrat he might have known that those tens of thousands of voters were not hedge fund managers, corporate bankers, or big pharma CEOs.

Or maybe he considers AA barbershop owners part of the Democratic establishment, which of course they are.

[LiberalFighter]

104. I'm wondering if Sanders will get all of the delegates in Vermont this time?

[msongs]

106. 50 years of bad mouthing a group of decent people that he suddenly wants to love him nt

[LizBeth]

107. This is the character of the man wanting our vote. Throwing criticism at the fact that Democrats are

supporting Democrats and Democrats are voting for Democrats. That is the evil of our party, with Sanders think.

[R B Garr]

109. Great thread, MM!

I'm so tired of being insulted just for being a Democrat, as if I exist just to prop up one politician. It's the other way around -- what has he done for me lately?

Vote for the Democrat!

[MineralMan]

110. Thanks! I appreciate your reply!

[Blue_Tires]

112. +1

[betsuni]

113. K&R