What can Joe do to get Bernie supporters after the primaries are over?

[kentuck]

Does he even need their support?

In 2016, a good percentage voted for Donald Trump.

It is doubtful that Bernie will try to bring his supporters together for Biden if he were to lose. He did not work extremely hard to get them to vote for Hillary, the last time around.

Contrary to what some might think, they are not devout Democrats.

[hlthe2b]

1. He does, but he won't and probably shouldn't expect to get many of them.

But, I believe in making the effort. I would like to think the big picture takes hold but after watching that meltdown from Cenk Uygur

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=628351

[still_one]

2. It isn't Biden who is declaring war on Democrats he doesn't agree with, and in fact has made it

clear he wants to try and work with everyone

[democrattotheend]

52. Doesn't matter. If he wins it's on him to earn people's votes

Including Bernie supporters. Nobody is entitled to anyone's vote. If Biden wins the nomination it's not on Bernie to win Bernie's supporters for him - it's on him. Ditto if Bernie wins the nomination. I hope and expect that Bernie will push his supporters to support Biden if he wins the nomination, hopefully moreso than he did in 2016, but at the end of the day, it's the nominee's job to earn enough votes to become president.

[still_one]

64. That is the same threats Sanders used last time. It seems to be only one sided with them

Not a two street

If The Supreme Court was not enough for Jill Stein supporter Briahna Joy Gray, and Hillary hating David Sirota and Nina Turner, then it will never be enough, because from that perspective it is either their way or nothing,

Nothing has changed then, and a reason why Sanders is not only unable to move beyond his base, but why he has lost support from that base since 2016

[RocRizzo55]

3. Not a damn thing n.t

[Amishman]

17. Yup, they'll either be rational and vote against Trump or be a lost cause

Either way it will take care of itself.

Better to focus on independents and other moderates, as Obama did.

[msongs]

4. one issues an invitation to vote for biden or trump. the invitation recipient then chooses nt

[HarlanPepper]

5. He definitely needs a lot of it

But I'd argue that Bernie's alleged core of support is young people, the least likely to show up on election day. I'd also argue that whatever Bernie voters that would be lost would be replaced by suburban voters that aren't scared to death of Biden's policies in ways that they are scared of Bernie's. I think Bernie would scare off a lot of people that would otherwise be inclined to vote against Trump.

[MH1]

41. Thank you!! I expect most of Bernie's supporters feel the same.

There are a few loud and obnoxious ones that will whine and say "never Biden" or some nonsense - but I truly believe they are in the minority of Bernie supporters, even if they are awfully loud at times.

[apcalc]

7. What should Biden do?

Continue to run against Trump.

My gawd , that ought to be enough motivation for Sanders’ supporters.

[treestar]

8. Not much

There are those who will vote for Joe as they did for Hillary.

[zipplewrath]

9. Yes he does

We went through this 4 years ago when it was announced on this forum that they weren't needed. Followed by 4 years of blaming Jill Stein voters for the loss. The democratic party is based upon the big tent theory. We need every vote we can get because of various issues like gerrymandering.

[ibegurpard]

18. thank you

insulting them isn't going to GOTV. And we need every vote we can get.

[Jarqui]

10. If Bernie really cares about the folks who support him, as I think he does,

he'll make sure they get behind Biden because the risk to those supporters of his if Trump stays in office ought to scare the crap out of anyone.

I supported Bernie in 2016 (and then Hillary). Bernie's policies appeal to me the most. But Biden offers policies that get us down the path towards Bernie's objectives while Biden as a candidate offers us the best chance to defeat Trump.

If we lose to Trump, nobody's policies will mean anything except Trump's.

I think Bernie will fight for a while longer and withdraw gracefully when he sees no path to the nomination. That's what I expect will happen.

[pat_k]

11. Doesn't need to do anything.

You may think Bernie supporters are idiots. They are not. Of course a vast majority will vote for Biden over Trump if he's the nominee (which looks pretty inevitable at the moment).

I don't know anyone whose doesn't have "beat Trump" as their overarching goal.

I personally think Biden is the weaker candidate against Trump for a number of reasons. "Lost" votes in the general won't be limited to unenthused former Bernie supporters. They will be across the board. It is not about ideology, it is about enthusiasm generated when a candidate takes strong stands. I think Biden's history of advocating Iraq war, damaging trade deals, "won't rock the boat" rhetoric, etc., tamps down the enthusiasm that turns people from across the political spectrum out.

I am also well aware that Bernie has a host of problems that will cost votes too, but I still think the upside of very attractive consistency, moral courage, and strength beats mealy mouthed, won't rock the boat rhetoric. Strength and unwavering commitment to principle attract people across the board. There are Trump voters who picked him because they saw him as "strong" relative to the nuanced policies Hillary advocated. Many of these voters would see strength and hope in Bernie if he were the nominee.

[emmaverybo]

30. Abrasive, angry personality not appealing to more mainstream Americans who do

say happy birthday. Americans are speaking. So far you are wrong.

[pat_k]

47. Happy birthday?

I don't get the reference.

Anger strikes me as an appropriate response to the state of our nation and the horrifyingly immoral distribution of our collective assets. I agree that the Sanders campaign would be better off without demonizing rhetoric.

As far as angry abrasiveness goes. I'm not a fan, but tragically, Trump's anger and abrasiveness won him enough votes for an electoral college win against a solid candidate.

[emmaverybo]

49. Kind of a joke. Supporters made an ad in which Bernie sad basically that he doesn't have time

for banal chit chat, not the kind of guy to wis( you happy birthday because he’s busy working to
raise the people up...

Anger is appropriate as you say to injustice, cruelty, immorality etc, but an all-angry personality is a turn-off. I think younger people have a better appreciation of righteous anger.

I can’t listen to Bernie anymore because he agitates me because he seems so agitated. Nothing good to say.

[pat_k]

56. Thanks for the clarification!

[TheCynic56]

65. Bingo!

Agree!

[NCProgressive]

12. The last time

The word on the street among Bernie supporters was to defeat Hillary to give Bernie another shot in 2020 so a lot of the Bernie supporters voted for Trump or stayed home or voted for Jill Stein.

That dynamic won't be at play this time (unless Bernie wants another shot in 2024 when he would be 82 years old)

[Cuthbert Allgood]

19. "A lot" I'd like some source on that.

Something other than the "word on the street."

[NCProgressive]

50. Word on the street is not necessarily on the internet or reduced to writing

Most hush-hush operations occur with a wink and a nod.

[democrattotheend]

54. That may have been the thoughts/discussions among a small percentage of Bernie voters

But half of those people probably didn't even vote for Obama in 2012 (or weren't old enough to). Some of Bernie's support came from people who usually vote Green but would have crossed over to vote for Bernie (if the Greens even ran a candidate against him. I seem to recall Stein saying she'd stand down if Bernie were the nominee, but not sure). I think the number of people who would have voted for Hillary if Bernie hadn't ran but instead sat it out or voted for another candidate is pretty small. And according to the exit polls, 76% of us did vote for Hillary.

[showblue22]

13. Talk directly with young people out in public.

Do not work along side Bernie's campaign. It was a disaster in 2016 to try and do that, just made things worse. Go to locations where young folks are and talk directly to them.

[Turin_C3PO]

14. It's going to be up to Bernie

to encourage his supporters, forcefully, to support the Democratic ticket. Last time 12% of his followers voted third party, sat out, or voted Trump. I hope and expect it will be much lower this time. We need massive youth turnout to cancel out the 65+ voters who support Trump the most.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

20. So nothing is on Biden?

Biden should just expect that he deserves the votes and should do nothing to earn those votes? That's a winning political strategy if I've ever heard it.

[Meadowoak]

31. +1

[Turin_C3PO]

46. What do you want Biden to do?

I expect some of Warren’s and Sanders’ ideas will be incorporated into the party platform. What more could he do?

[democrattotheend]

55. No, it's on Biden if he's the nominee

I hope and expect that Bernie will help, but at the end of the day, it's the responsibility of the nominee to earn every vote he or she gets, including those who supported other candidates in the primary. Nobody should be taken for granted.

[boston bean]

15. They are gonna do what they are gonna do. Piss in our Wheatlies.

So, best to make plans to bring others into the fold.

[ibegurpard]

16. Acknowledge the problem of big money dictating public policy

And put people in charge of various departments that will actually try to do something about it.
And as for everyone else on down the line through the campaign to individuals on the street: start listening and taking people's issues seriously. Affordable medical care is a real problem. Climate change is a real problem. Stop condescending and insulting people who are tired of money overruling real solutions to these problems.

[democrattotheend]

68. This, 100%

Matt Santos on West Wing had it right - until you change the problem of big money in politics, you won't get any real reform on any other issue.

I would love to see Biden try raising money Bernie's way for the rest of the primaries - without doing any in person big dollar fundraisers - and see if he is able to raise enough that way to eschew those fundraisers in the general. Not only would this go a long way toward freeing him from the control of corporate donors, but it would also free up his time to do more rallies and town halls and interactions with real voters.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

21. If Biden gets the nomination, I'm voting for him for sure, but, as to what he could do

he could pick a VP that is significantly to the left of him. Not Pete. Not Amy. Probably not even Kamala (but I'd be most OK with her out of those three). Maybe Stacey Abrams. That would go a long way to letting Sanders and Warren supporters know that he understands the positions that made them support Sanders and Warren.

[NurseJackie]

27. We win by picking up votes from the center of the political spectrum...

We win by picking up votes from the center of the political spectrum. It's time to stop chasing the fringes. If the "Bernie followers" need special coaxing to vote for the Democratic nominee... if they need coddling and convincing... then they are beyond hope anyway. We'll just have to trust that they'll make the choice that's best for our nation, and not one that's best for their own vanity and ego.

[democrattotheend]

53. I agree with you

I think a VP to the left of him shows he recognizes that the Bernie/Warren voters are a significant portion of the Democratic electorate and that he recognizes he needs to earn their votes and doesn't take them for granted.

[NurseJackie]

22. The same amount of effort could be much more effective in getting NEW voters to support Democrats.

The same amount of effort could be much more effective in getting NEW voters to support Democrats. Most are a lost cause anyway, why bother? Why spend hours trying to convince a handful of voters (who may or may not even show up anyway) when that same amount of time and effort could easily gain dozens or hundreds more voters.

Contrary to what some might think, they are not devout Democrats.

Exactly! Time to cut our losses and build the FUTURE of our party, not look to the unreliable voters and malcontents. Look, all I'm saying is... if these people are even considering voting for Trump anyway (either because they HATE Democrats so much, or they want to punish the party, or because they are racist bigots the same as he is) then we really need BETTER people in our party.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

23. I have voted for only Demoratic candidates since the mid 80s.

Not sure how much more devout you want me, as a Sanders supporter, to be.

[NurseJackie]

28. I'm very pleased to hear that.

Sadly, not everyone is as patriotic as you are.

[MineralMan]

24. Run against Trump.

Is that not enough?

[Moderateguy]

25. There is one big difference between 2016 and now...

No one, even Bernie supporters, expected Hillary to lose. A lot of Bernie supporters probably rationalized staying at home, voting 3rd party as a protest vote that wouldn’t alter the outcome. This time they know they will get 4 more years of Trump.

[democrattotheend]

60. Yes. This.

I know several Bernie supporters who didn't vote for Hillary in Pennsylvania because they thought she would win and didn't expect it to be so close. I tried hard to convince them that if it weren't close, she wouldn't be spending the night before the election there, but sadly they didn't believe it until after the election.

[CentralMass]

26. You earn a full ignore kentuck.

[Liberty Belle]

29. Pick Elizabeth Warren as a VP and

pledge that if the Supreme Court throws out Obamacare he will work toward Universal Healthcare or Medicare for All.

Start listing some cabinet officers and make some of them progressive, too. Give a speech indicating he values the progressive wing of the party and wants to work to include some of their best ideas if elected.

Healthcare is the big one. Incremental steps are not enough for all of us going broke!

[D_Master81]

32. Remind them

Remind them that 4 more years of Trump will result in the destruction of much of any resemblance they want of functional government along with packing the courts with dozens of far right judges and possibly RBG’s Supreme Court seat. If that’s all worth it for spiting “the establishment” than don’t complain over the next 30 years as the far right court tears up the New Deal and Roe v Wade.

[democrattotheend]

57. I think he needs to do more than that

That's all just fearmongering. It may be justified, but I think he needs to give the more progressive wing of the party something to vote for, not just something to vote against.

[beachbumbob]

33. upto sanders supporters, not Biden. Do they want 4 more years of trump is the REAL question,

if they do, they own it just like 2016

[ibegurpard]

36. you'll own it too

can't be throwing votes away sorry. we have to reach out to everyone. some will be receptive. some won't. but it has to be done.

[beachbumbob]

39. No matter what I never rejected a nominee as "lesser of 2 evils" I own nothing, the fringe owns

all of it.

sorry for the reality check

[ibegurpard]

40. you will live with the consequences like the rest of us

so yes you'll own it. Reality check.

[gulliver]

70. Actually, the less well off will own most of it.

They get the lion's share of ownership of bad things most of the time it seems to me. But yeah, we'll all own some of it, and it will be really awful. I can't imagine another four years of this malignant nutball in office.

[democrattotheend]

61. That's utter BS

It's up to the nominee to earn people's votes. If he fails to do so that's on him. It's not on Bernie or his supporters. And as someone who supported Bernie in 2016 but wholeheartedly supported Hillary after the primaries, and even took off work and stood out in the cold all day in Philadelphia doing election protection for her, I am sick to death of being blamed for her loss.

[Bluepinky]

34. Maybe not criticize Sanders and his policies?

But the primaries are far from over.

The next question:
What can Bernie do to get Joe’s supporters once the primaries are over?
I hope Joe’s supporters will be willing to vote for a true progressive who wants to get things done!

[dansolo]

37. I don't believe he wants to get things done

Everything he wants to get done will REQUIRE the "Democratic establishment" to be enacted. All he has done so far is guarantee that he would never get the support to get anything done.

[beachbumbob]

43. the primaries are over, the states left are not liberal bastions like

Mass, where Bernie LOST BIG, where warren lost BIG
LOST BIG in VIRGINIA WHERE he was "ahead" , same with Texas and the the 20pt+ lead in CA over biden went where???


nope, its over. The remaining states the true democratic voters of the "establishment" will be out in full force. Bernie will not win Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania or Michigan. without those delegates its done.

walking dead

[democrattotheend]

58. Bernie lost Massachusetts in 2016 also

It's a liberal bastion but more of an establishment Democratic state. Obama didn't win there in 2008 either, despite support from Ted Kennedy.

There are some good states left for Bernie - Oregon and Washington seem like the 2 best. And there are some other states left that he won in 2016, though the dynamics against Biden are a bit different than against Hillary. He seems to be stronger with Hispanics than he was in 2016, but Biden will probably give him stiffer competition among rural whites than Hillary did.

[peggysue2]

35. Joe Biden could and probably will offer an olive branch

Actually, it's something we all could do and should do because every vote will be critical in defeating Trump and his odious enablers. As demented and ugly as Trump and his Trumpsters are, they have the advantage of incumbency, the levers of power, continuous propaganda venues and the ability to raise gobs of money. We need to counteract that with a massive turnout on our side so there are no questions on election night. A thorough repudiation, a humiliating loss is what is needed to oust The Man Who Would Be King.

And that's always been my primary objective: WINNING. Because without a win in November, it all goes down the drain.

So, I would hope that Biden offers the olive branch and Sanders accepts, strongly urging his supporters to vote for the Dem ticket with the passion of a John Lewis:

Redeem the soul of America and vote like you never voted before!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

38. Maybe yell and flap his arms?

[ibegurpard]

44. hilarious

so insults are going to do it?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

45. We know that Bernie supporters run the full gamut from staunch Dems to nutzoids.

Those who are dedicated to the Democratic party platform will not need any placating from Joe. Likewise, those who recognize the extreme threat of Trump need no concessions by Joe.

Those who are nutzoids will accept nothing less than Bernie being anointed king.

[democrattotheend]

62. I didn't need placating in 2016

I wholeheartedly supported Hillary after the primaries. But it would have been nice if she had done a little more to get progressives excited about voting for her. Picking someone for VP who was further to the right than she was sent the wrong signal, IMO. She did adopt some of Bernie's policies in the platform, which was a step, but most people are smart enough to recognize how meaningless the platform is.

[pinkstarburst]

42. 1. Pick Warren as VP

2. start listening, really listening to the concerns of progressives. Joe already does a good job of appealing to moderates. He needs to now expand his platform to cover some of the concerns that will get progressives to the polls. Just assuming they'll vote for him over Trump won't cut it. Many will stay home.

Health care. Prescription costs. Climate change. Wealth inequity. Student loan forgiveness. College affordability.

It is doubtful that Bernie will try to bring his supporters together for Biden if he were to lose. He did not work extremely hard to get them to vote for Hillary, the last time around.

It is in no way Bernie's responsibility to bring his supporters together. He can't tell them who to vote for. If Biden gets the nomination it becomes HIS job to convince those people HE will listen to their interests and support programs they want. If he is not doing that, then that is on him, not Bernie. Bernie's job ends the moment he drops out of the race.

[democrattotheend]

66. Agreed 100%

I hope that Bernie will do more to bring his supporters over if he doesn't win than he did in 2016 (though he did more than people give him credit for in 2016). But at the end of the day, if Biden wins the nomination, it's his job to earn votes from Bernie's supporters. That's not on Bernie, that's on him as the nominee. Nobody should be taken for granted or told to shut up and fall in line.

I'm voting for whomever the nominee is, but not all progressives will unless he gives us something to get excited about beyond getting rid of Trump and preserving the ACA as is. The ACA was a great first step, and he and Obama deserve a lot of credit for it, but it needs a lot of improvement, and I hope that Biden isn't just paying lip service to the public option or to other progressive policies we want a Democratic president to push for.

[Kaleva]

48. Didn't 90% of Bernie supporters vote for Hillary in 2016?

I thought I've seen that posted here a few times.

[democrattotheend]

59. 76% according to the exit polls

Which was a little lower than the percentage of Hillary voters who voted for Obama in 2008. But I saw another post-election survey that had the number higher.

I wish Bernie had done more to convince his supporters that it wasn't rigged against him in 2016, but I also think she bears some of the blame for that. She muddied the waters by declaring victory in the delegate count based on superdelegate commitments the day before the California primary. If she had just waited an extra day and let the primary process play out, it would have been more apparent that she won more pledged delegates and popular votes.

I also think she could have done more to extend an olive branch, like either picking Bernie for VP or at least someone more progressive than Tim Kaine.

[Kaleva]

69. I don't think Kaine was the best pick Hillary could have made.

[Celerity]

67. between 6 and 12% (the common number is 10%) voted Trump, but that pales in comparison to 2008

when 24-25% of Hillary Clinton primary voters voted McCain and another 5 % did not vote.


Around 30% total of Hillary 2008 primary voters did not vote for Obama in the general, around 24-25% voted for McCain, around 5% did not vote in the general. I was only 12 years old at the time, and living (where I grew up) in London, but I have read extensively on this subject, both informally and at university via my political science classes. It was a very, very bitter primary in 2008, as exemplified by the so-called PUMA effect and other disruptive events and forces. Obama overcame it via a truly massive turnout and historical rates of African-American votes, the latter of which (lower minority voter turnout and higher rates of A-A's, especially A-A men, voting Republican) hurt Hillary significantly in 2016 (see a large post I did on that subject here https://www.democraticunderground.com/128736610#post18 ).




https://isps.yale.edu/research/data/d130

https://sites.duke.edu/hillygus/files/2014/06/hendersonhillygustompsonPOQ.pdf



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

Another useful comparison is to 2008, when the question was whether Clinton supporters would vote for Barack Obama or John McCain (R-Ariz.) Based on data from the 2008 Cooperative Campaign Analysis Project, a YouGov survey that also interviewed respondents multiple times during the campaign, 24 percent of people who supported Clinton in the primary as of March 2008 then reported voting for McCain in the general election.

An analysis of a different 2008 survey by the political scientists Michael Henderson, Sunshine Hillygus and Trevor Thompson produced a similar estimate: 25 percent. (Unsurprisingly, Clinton voters who supported McCain were more likely to have negative views of African Americans, relative to those who supported Obama.)

Thus, the 6 percent or 12 percent of Sanders supporters who may have supported Trump does not look especially large in comparison with these other examples.

snip


We can look at the 2016 Sanders primary supporters' numbers as well.

Obviously the 3rd party voters were a far smaller percentage in 2016 (it was around 8%) as 23%
of his 13,206,428 (and that number is actually around 13.75 -14 million, as it does not include popular vote totals from Iowa Caucuses (he got 85,055), Maine Caucuses, which has only district reps vote (2,226), Nevada Caucuses (9571) , North Dakota Caucuses (difficult to guess as they have delegates vote, and he had 253 in the districts), Washington (401,452 votes total for Sanders), Wyoming, or non-binding primary Nebraska primary (he got 37,744 votes)

is around 3.2 million votes. Stein only got 1,457,216 total votes (1.07%) nationwide. Also obviously, not every single one of her votes was a Bernie Dem voter. I will give number below of the percentage of Sanders 2016 primary voters who defected en toto below, but it was probably around 5% (If HALF her totals were Bernie voters) to 7% (if a full 70% of her total votes were Bernie primary voters who went Stein.) My guess based off 2012 numbers for her is that it was around 6%, and that turns out to be very close, as you wil see in the data below.

The danger when people show the total number numbers of Stein voters in the close states and say, 'Look, if you take ALL her votes and give them to Clinton, Clinton would have won easily!' is that a large chunk of her total voters would never vote for anything but the Green Party candidate, they are never Democratic or Republican voters, except for the one-off freak candidacy of Bernie in the primaries. Again, the real danger for us this time, in 2020 is that THIS group of 2020 Bernie voters are far, far less Democratic (many very hostile to us in fact) and far, far more radical than he had in 2016, so the haemorrhage is going to be far greater than in 2016 I fear.

so now lets drill down further


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.

Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.

The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November.

snip

I think the numbers of Bernie to Trump voters was probably around 10% overall (although I will show the numbers with 12% too). That 10% number is given here That link has a lot more data and goes into great depth, but at 10% Trump from Bernie defection rates, that would have swung the election to Hillary EXCEPT for one massive thing. The problem with saying those Berner to Trump voters made the diifrent completely ignores the Republican to Democratic switchers, as well. You cannot just pull out one set of switchers. Trump lost some support, too, of course. 34% of Kasich primary voters voted for Clinton. And 11% of Rubio primary voters did the same. Kasich had 4,290,448 votes, so 34% of that yields 1,458,752 Rethugs switching to Clinton, OR MORE than ALL of Bernie to Trump votes. Cruz had 7,822,100 Votes, so 11% of that yields 860,431 Rethug switches to Hillary. That is more votes than Bernie to Stein votes, or damn close. Next up is Rubio voters, who defected at a rate of 10%. Rubio had 3,515,576 votes, so that yields 351,558 Rehug to Hillary defections.

Add up those 3 numbers you get 2,670,741 Republican primary to Hillary general defection votes. That is just from THREE of losers, there were many other losing Repug smaller candidates who also had switchers to Clinton. The total was probably around 3 million Republican to Hillary switches.

If you take the 16% of Bernies 14 million primary votes (10% to Trump, 6% to Stein) that yields 2,240,000 Bernie to Trump defections, or far less than went the other way (Rethug to Clinton). In fact, lets say EVERY single Stein voter was a Bernie defector (Literally impossible in reality but lets do it just for fun). That yields 2,857,216 or so, which is still less than the total Rethug to Clinton total switches (counting all Repug primary voters).

I will now deal with last 2 categories. Non voters in the general and then the Gary Johnson general voters.

As for Sanders primary voters who didn't vote at all, it was only 3.5%. Hillary in 2008 had 5% of her primary voters not vote in the General. 5% of Republican primary voters didnt vote in the general.

A total of 8% went 3rd party from Bernie, so taking out Steins 6% (which I used in the calculation above) that leaves 2% who went to Johnson. That yields 280,000 votes. So the grand total of Bernie to other parties voters is 2,520,000 if you take the 10% to Trump number, or 2,800,000 if you give Trump a 12% Defection rate from Sanders primary. Still less than just Rethug primary voters who switched to Hillary. That is not even counting at all the Trump or any other candidates in the Rethug primary to Stein and especially Trump to Johnson switchers. Nor does it count the Rethug to Evan McMullin 732,273 votes (almost none came from Hillary or Bernie). Johnson took in a massive 4,489,233 votes. If only a third of the rate (so 4%, although I think it was higher, as he had 3 MILLION more votes than in 2012) defected from the Rethugs than did Bernie to Trump voters, that means Trump lost another 1,247,354 votes as there where 31,183,841 total votes cast in the Republican primaries.

That means over 5 MILLION defections from Trump to Hillary and 3rd parties, versus around 2.5m to 2.8 million defections away from Hillary via Bernie primary voters. Large net plus for Sec Clinton

The overall rate for Bernie 2016 primary voters who didn't vote for Sec Clinton and who voted for either Trump, Stein etc or didn't vote at all was 21.5% to 23.5% (depending if you give Trump 10% or 12% of their vote) versus a 30% defection (most all to McCain)/non vote rate for Hillary primary voters in 2008. The straight Democratic vote in the Primary to Rethug in the General (so the worst possible type of defection as it both takes away from us and adds to the opponent) was twice as high (at least) for Hillary 2008 voters as it was for 2016 Sanders voters.

[Bucky]

51. Vice President Ayanna Presley

There, problem solved

[Celerity]

63. The BoBers (NOT talking DU) hate her, they call her a traitor for endorsing Warren, whom they also

hate. Go look at Twitter and ratholes like JPR. It is fucked up.

I will not post their hate here.

[ehrnst]

71. I never thought that they were all "devout Democrats"

Democrats are a political party, not a religion, contrary to what many Sanders supporters have indicated they think.

I think that many of his supporters believe one must have the fervor of a disciple in order to support a candidate, and if one doesn't, the candidate isn't qualified at best, and corrupt at worst.

[tarheelsunc]

72. Pandering to them would be a grave mistake.

It's Bernie's responsibility to put his money where his mouth is (literally and figuratively) and throw his support behind the nominee, as he promised to do. Of course, I doubt that will actually happen given the scorched earth campaign he has chosen to run. Joe should instead focus on turning out loyal mainstream Democrats and the many independents who are done with the Trump fiasco.

[Raine]

73. Probably nothing

I know some and they're still angry at the Democrats and say they won't support ANY Democrat but Bernie.