Bernie gave a great interview on Rachel Maddow.

[DanTex]

It will be good to have a two-person race, with a clear contrast of ideas, instead of six or seven people.

Bernie's the underdog for sure, like he said, the establishment is against him, as are many powerful industries. Still, before 2016 Bernie was an obscure left-wing figure, and now the majority of Americans agree with him on every major policy issue. And Dem primary voters now have a net positive opinion of socialism, even in states like Tennessee. That's really something.

Whatever happens, his revolution will continue. The youth is solidly behind him, there will be more AOCs to come. The party has been drifting right for decades, now it's moving back left, and Bernie is a huge part of why. Bernie might not win. He probably won't. And that will be a disappointment to progressives. But someday, one of the millions of people he has inspired will become president. And when we finally do join the rest of the world in guaranteeing healthcare to all our citizens, Bernie will be a big reason for it.

And, hey, he might pull it off this year, you never know. Go Bernie!

[Under The Radar]

1. He was very respectable. That is the Bernie we have always liked.

[Jersey Devil]

43. Agree, not the screaming Bernie from the debates

He came across as much better. I still think he would be a mistake as nominee, but if part of the Dem message is to restore dignity to the presidency, a calm, collected Bernie would be much more appealing.

[AGeddy]

2. Rachel: Is Barack Obama part of the Democratic establishment? Bernie: No

So tell me, DanTex, if Barack Obama is not part of the Democratic establishment.... who is?

[William769]

9. The boogeyman.

[redqueen]

56. Look up what Paul Wellstone said about being from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

And try to figure it out for yourself.


I'm so very tired of this game.

[msongs]

3. bernie is not a socialist. the behind him youth stayed home. good luck to him going on nt

[George II]

7. He'll be going on for another week, maybe two.

After March 17 Biden will have all but sewed this thing up. After that I hope we don't see "deja vu all over again".

[comradebillyboy]

23. I think that particular hope is futile. It will be

"deja vu all over again".

[wiley]

48. Agreed. After March 17th Bernie should drop out. Stil Sad to see Warren go, though!

Remember we have House,Senate and many staewide raceswe haveto get peope to vote in. At least oner vote this one time. Just this once is a doable goal. We can work on the longterm later!

[RandySF]

4. Yeah, he even forgot all the negative things he said about Obama in the past.

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. One thing I appreciated about what Bernie said was when RM asked him why isnt he

doing better with whatever demo she was talking about or in general and he outlined the reasons WHY people would NOT support his candidacy but he pointed out, rightly so, that in the face of that he is still doing pretty good.

Those reasons are his agenda that I agree with but many Americans are too ignorant of the facts to support.

The problem is he admitted this but seemed liked Rachel was trying to show him he maybe cant win because of it...

I dont know, I do know Bernie does not allow compromise (which is why his accomplishments are so few) and so on so what he can actually accomplish if elected is not the issue, what the issue is we have to nominate the guy who can win.

And I am SICK to death we have to old white guys again...god DAMMIT, Liz runs circles around ALL the candidates, but she lacks that ONE THING between her legs

[WA-03 Democrat]

5. "The Establishment is against him"

Or stated another way, the majority of Democrats don’t want him to be our nominee.

[wiley]

50. Yes, but we should still be thankful for Bernie. The very far left is still very welcome!

We should still thank Bernie for his service and ongoing efforts. He's part of the spectrum, just so far left he can't win a national race. But he has lots of ideas and inspires people so we should be welcoming to those that support him.

[WA-03 Democrat]

71. Of Course!

I think we are and will always be the biggest tent!

[Mr.Bill]

6. I like Bernie much better

when he is sitting down, talking one-on-one with someone and speaking in a calm voice. He should do more interviews like this.

[TomSlick]

11. True.

[KPN]

8. Yep! It's about the debate of ideas and goals. Winning would be nice, but in the long run, it's

about fundamental change vs continuing on the current path. For this reason, the debate itself makes Sanders' and Warren's campaigns important and worth continuing onward whether one of them wins the nomination or not. Economic progressives are making progress despite the inertia around status quo.

[SunSeeker]

13. No, Biden is NOT going to "continue on the current path" that Trump is on.

The election of Joe Biden will completely change the path our government is on now.

Joe will strengthen the ACA, not eviscerate it.

Joe will address climate change, not claim it's a hoax.

Joe will increase taxes on the rich, not give them more tax breaks.

Joe will bring decency to the White House, not the daily Trump shit show we see now.

[KPN]

16. I didn't say anything about the current path that tRump is on. Nor doi I have faith that Biden is

a sure winner in the GE. I really do not believe his chances are better than Warren's or Sanders'. I am entitled to my view and opinion am I not?

[SunSeeker]

18. Our "current path" is Trump crap. That's who is currently in the White House. This is 2020.

Of course you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

[KPN]

20. Well then, let me elaborate: the economic/labor path we've been on the past 45+ years. Is that any

better?

My opinion about this path is consistent and almost as long as those years. What is my opinion? We need fundamental change when it comes to issues that affect the economic well-being of average Americans. The idea of making incremental gains has worked on social issues but failed on the economic front -- miserably in my opinion. Blaming that on the Rs is bogus and a weak defense -- also my opinion.

Facts about that? There are plenty ... and I've been following this for at least 30-35 of those 45+ years. But I'm open. Go ahead if you have some I haven't fully considered.

Oh, and to cut to the chase: who has the best chance of beating tRump? In my mind (my opinion based on my assessment of the facts) it isn't Joe Biden.

[SunSeeker]

21. Biden is not for the status quo. He is about improving the life of every worker.

What "fundamental change" do we need in your opinion? Eugene Debs style Socialism that Bernie advocated? Or the Scandinavian style regulated capitalism? Those are two very different things.

What I have learned over the last 45 years is the importance of stability, especially in a democracy. Beirut in 1978, a sophisticated city ripped to shreds by tribalism, showed how fragile a civilized society can be. I have learned how hard it is to make a difference, that the best change comes incrementally and only with a national consensus. I have learned that idealism needs to be enhanced by civility and some institutional memory...and patient determination.

[Fiendish Thingy]

24. But will he seek justice for the crimes of the Trump administration?

I fear Biden, like Obama before him, will want to “look forward, not backward” and ignore the innumerable crimes of this administration.

Not prosecuting the Bush/Cheney cabal set the stage for the current kakistocracy.

There must be a tribunal for the human rights abuses of putting kids in cages, investigating everyone who was a Good German “following orders”, as well as the security breaches by Kushner, profiteering, Barr’s obstruction, etc.

There is simply too much to ignore - an independent prosecutor will almost certainly be required, or it will happen again.

[larwdem]

29. wow just wow

I want justice for crimes too. I Hope Biden seeks some justice!

[JudyM]

30. A thousand time yes, Fiendish Thingy.

[SunSeeker]

32. I hope his AG does. But I don't think running on prosecuting your political opponents is advisable.

The President is not a prosecutor. DOJ prosecutors are supposed to be independent.

[Fiendish Thingy]

39. I didn't say Biden should run on prosecuting Trump

But he shouldn’t run away from it either.

So far, Warren has been the only candidate to respond directly when asked about this, saying she would not interfere with her DOJ investigating and enforcing the law, and that no one should be above the law and immune from prosecution.

[SunSeeker]

46. Yes, I know that about Warren.

I don't think Biden or Bernie have run away from it. But they certainly haven't made the same statement as Warren, not that it helped her campaign any. At this point, our focus should be winning.

[KPN]

42. Seriously? Comparing the USA to Lebanon? Comparing Sanders' supporters to sectarian militia

and the complex mess that embroiled Beirut in the later 70s and on? That's ridiculous. My brother-in-law and his family actually emigrated out of Beirut in 1975 due to the Civil War that erupted, moving first to Sierra Leone and then ten years later to Boston and Detroit. Don't even try to compare Sanders' and his supporters to any of the too many to count sectarian and secular groups that created that long and still going mess. .... If there is any group here that comes anywhere close to resembling what happened in Beirut it is today's christian evangelicals and their Republican enablers.

How hard it is to make a difference? You don't think folks like me who came of age in the late 60s/Vietnam War era and support the fundamental changes that Warren and Sanders don't understand how hard it is to make a difference, don't have patient determination, after 45- 50 years? Give me a frigging break.

You talk about stability. What do you think got us to the position we are in now? We have had consistent, stable decline in the economic well-being of the working and middle class over these past 45-50 years. Incremental change? Really? Wage stagnation over 45-50 years? The gutting of organized labor? Diminishing economic access to higher education? Unaffordable health care for greater and greater percentages of Americans over the past 45-50 years? By the way, the ACA has not fixed that.

What fundamental change do we need? 1) Affordable health care now ... not 20-30-40 years from now. 2) Affordable higher education now ... not 20-30-40 years from now. It's a matter of choice. We won't make those choices or even come anywhere near them if we aren't promoting them as our goal as a party now.

So ... please don't lecture people like me about Biden is not status quo. He may be about improving the life of every worker, but his generation of Democrats have not delivered on that if that's what they are all about. In my view, it's time for a change. It's time to rope unregulated capitalism in. A free market without sensible regulation is not a free market. Sensible regulation is not socialism nor do Sanders' of Warrens positions or proposals espouse socialism -- so how about stopping with the right-wing narrative.

Stability? My opinion: if we keep going down the road we've been on, we can damn well say goodbye to any hope of stability soon. There is absolutely no reason why we can't fight hard and make significant, real and meaningful progress toward both greater social as well as economic justice. In fact, we have to in my opinion. Social justice cannot be achieved fully without economic justice. If the divide we see in this country today is not enough to convince anyone of that, I don't know what is.

Now ... having said all that. I will be disappointed if Biden gets the nomination for sure. I will be disappointed in our party if that happens. Will I vote for him in the GE? Of course, is there really any other legitimate choice? But I will always push to see our party and our nation move back to what I consider the former center on economic issues.

[SunSeeker]

45. YOU compared Bernie supporters to "sectarian militias," not me.

I am gave Beirut as an example of the fragility of democracy and the effect of division. I did not equate it to the USA or any of the fighting factions to any of the current candidates' supporters. That was all on you.

If Sanders' proposals aren't socialism, why does he keep saying they are? He's validating the false right wing narrative that regulation of capitalism is socialism.

[KPN]

47. Lol. No, you used Beirut as an example of what could happen to our democracy, not me. You used

the term "tribalism", not me. What tribe(s) were you referring to? You can't have it both ways.

Are you opposed to everyone having affordable health care? Are you opposed to the idea of affordable access to health care being a right? Are you opposed to higher education being affordable and accessible to everyone without burdening them with overwhelming debt? I'm sure you know exactly what Sanders means when he uses the term socialism and why he uses it when he talks about health care, higher education and gross income inequality. And I'm sure you understand the difference between classical socialism and his debunking of the right-wing narrative regarding "socialism".

[SunSeeker]

49. No, I really don't know why Sanders keeps referring to a robust safety net as socialism.

Every time someone asks him what socialism is, he points to the Scandinavian countries. But they aren't socialist economies. They are just well regulated free market capitalist economies with robust safety nets. I have no problem with the Scandinavian model of capitalism. I quite like it. It is not socialism and calling it that makes it less likely for us to have those things. That is why I think it is so counterproductive of Bernie to call that socialism.

[KPN]

54. Bernie defines himself as a Democratic Socialist which is something far different than "socialism"

but he is also a realist in knowing that programs and proposals he supports get defined as socialism by the right as well as the media. I agree he would be better off saying they are not and pointing out the difference. But most people pay scant attention to details -- not that the media actually does better. I imagine his calculation is that saying "if what Denmark and Sweden have is socialism, then yes, I'm in favor of socialism" is the most effective way to debunk the "socialism" fear-mongering by the right-wing and media in a sound bite. In my view, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

We do need fundamental change. And I don't believe Biden will even attempt to achieve that frankly. Sorry.

[SunSeeker]

66. Democratic Socialism is still socialism. Bernie self-defines as a socialist.

The problem is, Bernie misleadlingly defines Democratic Socialism as the FDR program of Social Security, and Bernie says "when I'm talking about Democratic Socialism I'm looking at countries like Denmark and Sweden."

Bernie is not an FDR Democrat. Joe Biden is. The Socialist Party opposed FDR. They had their own candidate, Eugene Debs, Bernie's hero. Bernie has spent his entire adult life bashing the Democratic Party. His hero is Socialist Eugene Debs, not FDR. 

Bernie made a glowing documentary of Debs in which Bernie does the voiceover for Debs' speeches, including the one where he says both the Democratic and Republican Parties are equality opposed to workers rights, and that workers should take over the means of production: 

Bernie admiringly recites Debs speeches from memory: 

Now Bernie is trying to market socialism by saying it is what Denmark has. The fact is, despite Bernie's misleading statements, socialism is not what Denmark has. Denmark is a free market capitalist economy with a robust safety net. When Sweden tried Debs'/Bernie's brand of socialism, their economy tanked, they didn't create any jobs, and they ended up having to reverse coarse: 

The vast majority of the American people are not followers of Eugene Debs like Bernie is. Our economy would careen into disaster under Bernie's/Debs' socialist economic model. 

Only incremental change by an Obama/FDR Democrat will get us to the better regulated capitalism and robust safety nets of the Scandinavian countries.

We cannot get the change we need by inaccurately calling it socialism, like Bernie is doing.

[KPN]

67. Well, we'll have to disagree. I've followed Bernie for over twenty years.

He has been consistent regarding his positions and philosophy. I think people who get hung up on details of definitions and what constitutes socialism are simply not fans or supporters in the first place. I see no problem in Sanders having respect and high regard for Eugene Debs. Debs was an important political figure at the time and actually helped shape the future by his presence in the debate. Sanders holds similar high regard for FDR. Biden can call himself an FDR Dem but his record belies that in my opinion.

You won’t convince me as I suspect I won’t convince you. But Democrats spreading and fueling the false right-wing narrative that Sanders wants to institute Classical socialism in which government controls means of production certainly isn’t helpful to fostering an ability to unify down the road.

[SunSeeker]

69. Bernie is calling himself a socialist. Words have definitions. He can't just make shit up.

Per Webster's Dictionary:

socialism noun

so·​cial·​ism |  ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm  

Definition of socialism

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism


Again, I don't get why he's so insistent on calling himself a socialist. And he's just as insistent that he's not a Democrat but an independent, even though he promised to join the Democratic Party in order to run in our primary.

[KPN]

73. When has he called himself a socialist in recent years?

I’ve never heard him say that except in ancient videos (30-40 or more years ago as I recall)? He has said “Democratic Socialist”. That has a definition too. He’s also said corporate tax breaks, bail-outs and other forms of subsidization are a form of socialism as a means to counter the right wing narrative that welfare, Medicare, social security, and subsidized health care and higher education are socialism. In doing so, he’s talking to the undereducated and the relatively mindless people who fall prey to those RW narratives. It’s a simple and direct message that can be delivered as a sound bite. Of course, there are those who have a bias against him and ignore that entirely.

Frankly, he’s being attacked by “Democrats” using right-wing narratives. Not the other way around.

[SunSeeker]

74. Calling yourself a Democratic Socialist is calling yourself a Socialist.

Webster's defines Democratic Socialism as social democracy:

democratic socialism  noun

Definition of democratic socialism

: SOCIAL DEMOCRACY sense 1

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democratic%20socialism

It defines Social Democracy as a transitioning to socialism:

social democracy  noun
Definition of social democracy

1: a political movement advocating a gradual and peaceful transition from capitalism to socialism by democratic means

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20democracy

[redqueen]

58. Thank you for putting all that so eloquently.

[wiley]

68. Agreed

I wasn't endorsing Bernie. And I thought he was being very duplicitous on Maddow. But career politicians are like that. Just saying that it's not a great idea to be critical of Bernie, but very optimistic and positive about Biden and the Democratic Party despite what anyone says.

[gldstwmn]

14. +1000

[uponit7771]

15. So Biden will continue on Trump's current path?!?!

[KPN]

17. I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[NurseJackie]

37. "fundamental change vs continuing on the current path." -- Oh, for fuck's sake! Stop it, will ya?!

fundamental change vs continuing on the current path.

Oh, for fuck's sake! Stop it, will ya?! Joe Biden is not going to continue on the current path. It really serves no good purpose for anyone to try an cleverly insinuate that the Democrats are "the same as" the GOP, or that we'll continue on the current path, or that Biden is no different than Trump and will not represent fundamental change.

GMAFB!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

10. Not a great interview... a PHENOMENAL interview

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[gldstwmn]

12. I may not live to see it but this party

might nominate a Progressive yet.

[GulfCoast66]

27. This party nominated a Progressive in 2016.

Someone who worked hard for universal healthcare in 19 fucking 93. 27 years ago. And paid one hell of a price for the effort. Propaganda so bad even many on the left still believe it.

But because that nominee was not a socialist from Vermont she was not really a progressive.

Well, as we see playing out now. Most democratic voters are not socialist.

The gig is up.

[Freddie]

36. this

I see a lot of “we lost our only chance to win!” whining from Millennials. Get a grip. Young Bernie fans can’t see what we older folks can, that his appeal is limited and he’s not going to magically win over a country that’s largely allergic to the word “socialism”.

[NurseJackie]

38. OMG, did you see Cenk Uygur's meltdown?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287628351

[gldstwmn]

41. I'm 56 and not a Sanders supporter.

[gldstwmn]

40. HRC may have been a progressive in

93 but she was a centrist in 2016.
Please take your Bernie rage elsewhere. I am not one of his supporters. I am quickly finding myself alienated by the Biden senior citizen thug mob that seems to dominate this board this election cycle.

[mcar]

55. She had the most liberal platform of any Democratic nominee

Do some research. She was not a centrist in 2016.

[gldstwmn]

70. Do some research? How insulting.

I remember 2016 and Clinton's candidacy quite well

[mcar]

72. So do I

The platform was the most liberal the Democratic party has seen.

[Happy Hoosier]

53. Very likely. But not Sanders.

Sanders is, and always a was a gadfly with meager political skills and a phrase book he assembles speeches from.

[zak247]

19. From a place of courage

Bernie, he’s okay, he’s an okay guy.

I wonder does he realize the risk he takes in his candidacy. Does he know the risk in his extreme ideology?

I always make the point that these elite progressives like Michael Moore, Susan Sarandon, the so-called Young Turks, all multi-millionaires won’t be affected by a GOP Trump win.

They’re not on food stamps, or Medicare, or Obamacare, programs Trump wants to cut and has cut. These elite progressives aren’t going to lose their section 8, or welfare, or other lower- and middle-class programs he will cut.

Does Bernie know that if he loses and takes down the house and doesn’t get the Senate back, he is responsible for that?
Does he know he’s gambling with people’s lives?
…And most of the political signs point to him losing... even though his supporters won't admit that political fact.


It makes me chuckle when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says “we should come from a place of courage.” when we choose who to vote for.

She makes almost 200 grand a year and has the best health insurance in the world.

She can afford to be courageous and all the other elite wealthy progressives like the ones mentioned above.

But can the ordinary and poor people( who may lose Obamacare, food stamps, or get their Medicare cut) they purport to care for afford to be courageous when their very lives are at stake.

[rockfordfile]

22. I agree

[TexasTowelie]

25. "...there will be more AOCs to come."

Not from the 28th Congressional District in Texas in 2020. The voters nixed that idea on Tuesday.

[Mike Niendorff]

28. Barely.

51/48.

Against a well-known incumbent.

Total margin : less than 3,000 votes.

Pretty sure that's not an epitaph you're reading there.


MDN

[JudyM]

31. +1. Next time the Koch-backed guy won't win.

[Raine]

26. Really really good interview

it was nice to see Bernie smiling and relaxed and Rachel asked thoughtful questions. I'm so glad I watched it.

[grantcart]

34. Lol

[OnDoutside]

35. I've just finished listening to the full interview, and it's clear he's built a fine castle on sand.

When Rachel put it to him the fact that his much trumpeted Youth vote didn't come out to vote (for him or anyone else) in the numbers he expected, he said they'll come out in the General. Seriously.

[Uncle Joe]

44. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread DanTex.

[brooklynite]

51. " The youth is solidly behind him,"

Do you have their phone numbers? Might want to call them and explain voting is how this all works.

[awesomerwb1]

57. Well, when you go on twitter

and this is not The Onion by the way.

What I saw from some Berners on Twitter last night: the low turn out was because "we have jobs" as in we work and you don't.

Of course you can imagine the replies to those fake indignation remarks by the "older" working folks.

[brooklynite]

60. Interesting how they all get on line in the afternoon for those rally/concerts

[Eliot Rosewater]

61. Nope, Stephanie Miller Show did not trash him AT ALL

facts matter

[uponit7771]

62. Sooooo, the public option is good for HCIC's? Really !?

[Happy Hoosier]

63. Summary:

"I'm actually winning, but if I'm not, I will, and anyway it's the corporate Democrats fault!"

I cringed so many times in this interview.

The fact that "true believers" thought it was great tells me they have just invested so hard in his personality cult.

When I listen to him, I hear all the same rhetorical tactics as Trump, just targeting different fears and biases.

[DanTex]

64. Huh. I don't see why anyone could find the interview objectionable.

I guess it depends on perspective! I hear the most principled and progressive politician of the last few decades telling it like it is.

[Happy Hoosier]

65. I didn't find it objectionable, I found it vacuous.

It does certainly depend upon perspective. I agree with that.

What I heard was empty platitudes, a man who can never accept any responsibility for failure, and magical thinking.

For example, when asked about a lack of support from Southern black voters, it never crossed his mid that skipping the Bloody Sunday commemoration might have affected his support. He is among the least self-reflexive people I have ever seen. He is utterly convinced he is right, and unwilling to entertain alternatives, despite the evidence.

[ehrnst]

75. I heard a politician doing his best to deflect and evade a direct question....

“What is going wrong with your campaign when it comes to competing in the South and competing for Black voters?” Maddow asked Sanders.

“Well, let me just give you the other side of the story, is that in California, if my memory is correct, we received 39% of the votes of people of color, which were Latinos, Asian Americans and African Americans,” said Sanders, who’s projected to win the delegate-rich state. “If I’m not mistaken ― I haven’t studied these results ― we probably won the young people, young people African American vote, probably in all of those states.”

“But you in California are being well outpaced by Joe Biden among Black voters,” Maddow said, stressing the specific demographic she wanted to talk about.

Sanders replied once again with a deflection, saying that his campaign is “winning among people of color in a very significant degree” before Maddow cut him off to say she wanted to talk about Black voters.

“Let’s talk about Black voters, though, specifically because it has been a persistent problem, you know it was a problem in 2016, lackluster,” she said. “And it hasn’t gotten better.”
...............................................................................

While the term “people of color,” or POC, has recently grown in popularity to identify nonwhite people and the struggles they deal with, it can also often erase issues that Black people specifically or more directly deal with. Equating “POC” with “Black people” can be viewed as needing to group nonwhite people together on an issue that directly affects Black people so that others will have more empathy or take it more seriously.

When Maddow pressed him during their interview to specifically talk about Black voters, Sanders shifted his angle to the former vice president’s relationship with Barack Obama, the nation’s first Black president.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-deflects-people-color-black-support-maddow_n_5e6077f5c5b69d641c0a8d77

[empedocles]

76. Thought I had heard the last of the BS 'surge' type comments on the UG.

[Gothmog]

77. Does Cenk know that this was a good interview?

Link to tweet