Castro and others come out in favor reparations.

[rogue emissary]

Last edited Mon Feb 25, 2019, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

I really liked his answer and hope whom ever wins the nomination holds a similar position. I don't expect any of them to have a detailed plan this early in the campaign.

It's a huge issue with a lot of opposition. Just three years ago it was considered a none issue and some dismissed even talking about reparations.

I know Harris and Warner have also come out in favor of at least exploring reparations.

Many on DU will say we'll never get it. What I want is at least a discussion occurs and not be dismissed.

Here's a video of Castro's response which starts at 3:53.

[brooklynite]

1. Explain how you sell reparations to a General Election population.

It's a terrible campaign message.

[rogue emissary]

2. Again listen to Castro response.

You sell it as a means to heal and fix the racial Injustice this country was founded on.

I also agree with Warren that Native Americans should be apart of this discussion.

It's simple you want to address the racial strife and division. As the old phrase goes "put one's money where one's mouth is".

[LongtimeAZDem]

4. Which will get interesting when we talk about Native American tribes that owned slaves

Will the Cherokee Freedmen get double reparations? And who pays for them?

[rogue emissary]

6. As I wrote it's a huge issue.

But not talking about it won't make it go away.

It's similar complex issue like climate change and the drastic steps we'll need to start to just stop damaging the planet.

[brooklynite]

7. Talking about it will make the Republican much more likely to get elected

And then it WILL go away...

[rogue emissary]

13. So can we stop talking about free education,

Green New Deal and Medicare for All? Each of those issue can also help Republicans be much more likely to get elected.

Or we can all choose to respect each other issues and realize we have different concerns. That we want our candidates to address.

[brooklynite]

15. Those ideas are far less radical and disruptive than Reparations.

And no, while you have the right to advocate for anything you want, I won't respect ideas that I think will destroy our ability to win a vital Presidential election.

[rogue emissary]

19. Critics of each of those issue say the same thing.

That lack of respect is what will drive the division and voter apathy we are trying to combat.

[brooklynite]

25. If there's "division", it's because this issue DOESN'T have support by a significant voter share

,,,and certainly not among Democratic Leadership. Do you imagine that Speaker Pelosi will bring this up?

As for apathy, if the base can't be inspired to vote against Donald Trump at this point, we'll have to look for votes in the middle...where they've always been.

[rogue emissary]

29. No, cause we don't even have a policy.

Notice I like the fact that Castro is talking about the issue. As another poster points out. We have no idea what form reparations would take on as a bill.

[brooklynite]

31. In the absence of a policy, it allows opponents to frame it in the worst case terms.

[oasis]

50. +1,000,000

[Hortensis]

82. Back in high school an "indigenous" friend (wish we knew

that term back then ) used her reparations check to happily buy a car, even though she was a teenager living at home with her parents and a pack of brothers and sisters. Not to go to college or invest, or whatever. I enjoyed riding around screaming at boys with her, but ever since I've felt reparations should probably take the form of investment in general wellbeing. I know that's not popular with those who are at best indirectly benefited that way, but oh well.

I'm still waiting for my reparations for the profound government neglect and occasional genuine abuse I experienced as the child of a mentally ill mother. But being a born-liberal-and-will-die-liberal, I prefer them in the form of well functioning social safety net programs for today's children. I'm not big on resentment or victim mentality.

Itm, I'm find with them all considering reparations. As long as they also make sure their major efforts genuinely increase wellbeing, however it's done.

[Bradshaw3]

83. Thanks for injecting reality into the discussion

I'm afraid the Dems are headed into the lanes the repubs want on some of these issues.

[Kahuna7]

30. You don't think that's been tried before??? nt

[brooklynite]

63. To a GE audience? Definitely not

I suppose Jackson might have brought it up in his Primary runs; how'd that work out?

[rogue emissary]

3. There are a lot of ideas I think are never going to happen.

Yet, I don't challenge members to sell them to the general electorate.

[DownriverDem]

58. The majority of the country

does not agree. We must not alienate the voters.

[LovingA2andMI]

5. Good....

Unless a Candidate is talking boldly about Reparations, they will NOT get any support or vote, period!

Candidates Speaking Boldly About Reparations of ADOS (African/American Descendants of Slaves) are:

*Kamala Harris
*Cory Booker
*Julian Castro
*Elizabeth Warren
*Marianne Williamson



Good for all FIVE of these candidates and we will keep our eye on any others.

[brooklynite]

8. Well then, I guess we're a wash...

[Polybius]

46. What has Harris and Warren said about reparations?

Any links?

[LovingA2andMI]

48. .....

"Several Democratic presidential candidates are embracing reparations for the descendants of slaves — but not in the traditional sense.

Over the past week, Sen. Kamala Harris of California, Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro spoke of the need for the U.S. government to reckon with and make up for centuries of stolen labor and legal oppression. But instead of backing the direct compensation of African-Americans for the legacy of slavery, the Democratic candidates are talking about using tax credits and other subsidies.

Long defined as some type of direct payment to former slaves and their descendants, the shifting definition of reparations comes as White House hopefuls seek to solidify their ties with African-Americans whose support will be crucial to winning the Democratic nomination. But it risks prompting both withering criticism from Republicans and a shrug from black voters and activists if the proposals are seen as an empty gesture that simply renames existing policy ideas as reparations.

“Universal programs are not specific to the injustices that have been inflicted on African-Americans,” said Duke University economist William Darity, a veteran advocate of reparations. “I want to be sure that whatever is proposed and potentially enacted as a reparations program really is a substantive and dramatic intervention in the patterns of racial wealth inequality in the United States — not something superficial or minor that is labeled as reparations and then politicians say the national responsibility has been met.”

Montague Simmons of the Movement for Black Lives, which has pushed for reparations, said the debate is “not just cash payments.”

But “unless we’re talking about something that has to be systemic and transfers power to the community, it’s not likely going to be what we would consider reparations,” he said.

And in New Hampshire on Friday, Warren said the U.S. needs to confront its “ugly history of racism” and “talk about the right way to address it.” Asked whether she would support reparations for Native Americans, she responded: “It’s an important part of the conversation.”

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/25/candidates-slavery-reparations/39112871/

[calguy]

9. This is a loser position

plays right into the right wing's hand. Totally stupid move.

[Kahuna7]

12. It's moronic! I don't have a candidate yet. Most of those who are announced..

are making some really stupid moves, and I just can't get behind them. I had hopes for Klobuchar but she is apparently, the Queen of Mean. Sherrod Browne, Joe Biden, give me hope.

[True Blue American]

54. I sure wish I could disagree!

[Maru Kitteh]

59. "Queen of mean?"

Do you realize you are promoting blatantly, patently, stunningly self-obvious by the very label you picked - SEXIST claptrap?

[Kahuna7]

72. Go bother somebody else. Don't come at me like you know me.

yourself.

[Maru Kitteh]

73. Don't regurgitate sexist claptrap and it won't be an issue.

You posted on a discussion board. You don't get to pick who responds.

[Kahuna7]

74. You probably believe because I have a low post count, I'm a newbie...

and you can bully me (like some DUers tend to do). WRONG. I have been on DU almost from the beginning. I lost my post count after the election day hack and had to re-register. BTW, I had more posts than you have. So, mind your business, and I'll mind mine like I always do. I'm a fully grown woman in my 60s and do not appreciate being talked down to by anyone. Now, go play.

[Maru Kitteh]

78. Were you 103 with a post count of 400K, you would still be

just as utterly devoid of agency over anyone else's choices on this, or any other discussion board. Depressing huh?

Attempts to wield your purported post count and your "maturity" are void, and fail to address the original issue - that is your usage of a sexist, patriarchal meme as a reason to reject a female Democratic contender for the nomination. Do you have any substance to present on the matter or are you reduced only to deflection?

Asking for a friend.

[Kahuna7]

79. How do I get this person to stop harassing me. My God, you're sickening. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

81. I guess we can go ahead and check the "no" box on that substance thing.

Deflection it is then.

[Bucky]

87. Nice

Well done. This is the way to draw a healthy boundary. We could do with a little more decorum and respect for ideas around here without the bogus call-outs and personal invective.

[rogue emissary]

14. See post 13. I ask the same question to you.

[calguy]

17. See post 15.

I'm in total agreement wirh this answer.

[rogue emissary]

32. Talking about it isn't going to doom us.

Lucky none of our candidates are as flippant and dismissive of this issue.

When a candidate does reject the issue like you and Brooklyn did. Don't be surprised when that candidate doesn't win over a large portion of African American voters.

[Garrett78]

10. There's precedent for reparations. Native Americans, Jewish people and others...

...have received reparations. And reparations can come in a variety of forms.

Everyone should read the platform of The Movement for Black Lives, including the section on reparations: https://policy.m4bl.org/reparations/.

[rogue emissary]

16. Exactly, my family never took or benefited

Last edited Mon Feb 25, 2019, 06:10 PM - Edit history (1)

From taking Japanese American property. Yet, we all paid taxes that went to rightfully repaying those families.

[Kahuna7]

28. Affirmative action was supposed to be a form of reparations...

You see how divisive that has been. But at least AA isn't a deal breaker for most voters. But reparations? They won't go for it. Run on it and lose.

[BeyondGeography]

51. Wake up

This is an epic branding disaster. The programs at that link are items that Democrats have historically supported, and most of them apply to all economically disadvantaged people. By pushing the term “reparations,” you are turning popular ideas such as free college education into the mother of all wedge issues. It’s political malpractice of the highest order. A big fat loser.

Somehow we made it through the midterms without this discussion. And we won. Now we’re throwing a life preserver called reparations to the Republicans. Whose idea was that?

[Kahuna7]

11. This is dumb. Warren, Harris, now Castro.

How in the world do they believe this is a winning issue. And really, it's not necessary to pander to blacks with this issue.

[Garrett78]

18. It's not pandering. It's long overdue and sensible policy. Nobody is talking about...

...running on this issue in the general or even in the primary. But, naturally, just about everything under the sun is going to get discussed over the course of a long campaign.

[Kahuna7]

23. So you really think the majority of voters will appreciate the discussion???

Really? Because I don't think so. I believe it's s turnoff to the majority of voters.

[Garrett78]

34. Did I say that anywhere in my post?

[Kahuna7]

35. Did I say you said it anywhere in my post??? I asked you a question. nt

[Garrett78]

37. Right. Because everyone who is just asking a question replies to a post by saying...

So you really think...?

Just admit you completely ignored what I said in order to pursue your own agenda.

[Kahuna7]

38. Ok you got me. Do you mind answering the question now? nt

[Vinnie From Indy]

24. Why is it sensible?

[Kahuna7]

27. It isn't sensible. It's the third rail of politics. nt

[Garrett78]

40. Because justice. That's why.

Read Ta-Nehisi's famous essay on the case for reparations. Read the platform of The Movement for Black Lives.

Am I saying this is something to campaign on? No. Am I saying it's fine to have these sorts of conversations, so that seeds are planted and we progress toward equity and justice? Yes.

[Kahuna7]

43. This is an election. The goal in winning is to not run on third rail issues..

that will only serve to alienate the very voters you need to win.

[Garrett78]

44. I don't know how to make it more clear that I'm not advocating running on this issue.

I, mean, read what I've fucking said.

[Bucky]

89. Do you have a link to Coates's article defending it?

I googled, but only found arguments about the article, not the link to the article itself

[Adrahil]

20. Foolishness.

We are going to screw ourselves out of victory with this kind of foolishness.

[rogue emissary]

21. People think the exact same thing with the Green New Deal

Yet you are supporting a candidate that has come out in favor of GND and reparations.

[Kahuna7]

26. Yep. And abolishing healthcare companies...

I just can't support someone so naive as to come out with these policy initiative.s If you really believe this stuff, wait until you're elected to try to roll these things out. But it's just foolishness to make these things you're running on.

[Adrahil]

53. I don't have to agree with a candidate on everything. NT

[LanternWaste]

75. Be cool if someone had argued you did...

But that never happened.

[Vinnie From Indy]

22. Why not just wait until after we have won the election?

As a campaign issue, this is one that should be left alone.

[Bucky]

88. That's not how a democracy works. If you want a policy, you gotta get a mandate for it.

Politicians shouldn't hide what they plan to do in a democracy, particularly on an issue as sweeping and significant as redressing the lingering harms caused by slavery.

[Shemp Howard]

33. This is a dead end.

Suppose you have only one black grandparent. Do you then get only 1/4 of the reparations? And suppose that one black grandparent immigrated to the United States in 1950? Then what?

Here's what everyone - black, white, brown, red, etc. - needs instead: Good jobs! Good, stable, well-paying union jobs!

Good jobs for the inner city kids. Good jobs for the reservation kids. Good jobs for the Appalachian kids.Let's all work towards that! Everything else is an unhelpful distraction.

[Garrett78]

36. Wrong. Jobs don't solve everything. Classism doesn't reign supreme.

This is what those who bash identity politics refuse to grasp. This is 1 major reason why Sanders has no path to the nomination. The road ends at New Hampshire.

But, by all means, keep being dismissive of identity politics and talking about how Trump supporters aren't racist but merely economically anxious and simply "not comfortable" voting for Black folks.

IA, NH and done. Good riddance.

[rogue emissary]

41. Thank you Garrett78.

Any candidate that just dismisses this issue. Will find themselves being dismissed by a lot of the Democratic base.

[Shemp Howard]

42. What are you talking about?

I certainly didn't say that "Trump supporters aren't racist". And I didn't dismiss identity politics. Quite the contrary. I mentioned that black inner city kid. He/she needs a good union job above all else. Same goes for the reservation kid, etc.

I might be wrong. But it seems to me that you're just looking to bash a Bernie supporter. If so, that's your right.

[Maru Kitteh]

60. Garrett78 was illustrating the sheer IDIOCY and tone-deaf notion that jobs solve everything

for minorities and women. This doofus idea comes from a place of unaware or deliberately oblivious privilege.

[Bucky]

91. OUCH!

This discussion isn't going well among us Democrats on DU. It's divisive and it's turning into a lot of personal insults.

Can you imagine how the conversation would go among the voting general public?

By the way, who benefits from all this divisiveness produced among progressives by this matter?

[Maru Kitteh]

94. Oh, I know, I know. "There there little lady, simmer down now"

"It's not nice" to speak so loudly about the fact that my job has precisely jack squid to do with the oppression I face in the world every single day of my life. What ever will people think?

Too bad.

It's not the right job that's keeping me from being treated as a fully adult human being in this society, it's the continuing paradigm of white male power. I will never be quiet about this.

[Eyeball_Kid]

39. You're talking about a sea change in

economic policy. Meeting your wishes, if noble, would require the rebuilding of the US’ economic foundation. That means manufacturing. So how is that going to happen without a managed economy?

Oh, and a managed economy isn’t inherently bad. But the resistance from culture warriors will throw water on the fire🇹🇬🇳🇨

[JustAnotherGen]

66. Correct - that's why it needs to be

Reparations for Jim Crow and the Raw Deal for Black Americans.

Limit it to black individual, parent or grandparent on the 1940, 1950, 1960 cans for ONLY 36 years.

Has an automatic sunset built in and is easy to measure.

Most important - make it a 5% tax deduction. No money - just a deduction.

My grandparents and father were negro on the Census in those years. I'm 46. No children. Have Ankylosing Spondylitis - no children. Automatic Sunset.

[doc03]

45. Stick a fork in him nt

[brooklynite]

47. If you want Reparations, you have to solve four problems

Problem 1: Who pays?

Who pays the money for reparations: everyone? Are African Americans excluded? What about African Americans who aren't descended from Slaves? What about Whites who ARE descended from Slaves? What about Native Americans?

Problem 2: Who benefits?

Does the money go to individuals or to services? If individuals, which ones? Do you have to prove you were descended from Slaves? what if you don't have documentation? What if you're rich and successful?

Problem 3: What then?

Once you've paid reparations, is the balance sheet clear? Do we eliminate Affirmative Action and MBE requirements?

Problem 4: Who's Next?

Do we provide Reparations for Native Americans (all the same problems apply)? hispanics? Alaskans? Hawaiians? How much of our budget goes to balancing the books?

[Bucky]

93. Thank you for this post. It's a great template for understanding the maze

of issues that attend reparations as a policy. I could probably add about a dozen additional questions to further complicate understanding of how to implement a reparations policy... and that's before I'd get to the question of reparations for Jim Crow (and post-Jim Crow de facto) segregation (which I will argue had a bigger and more lasting impact on racial injustice).

Before we can have a discussion on any of these matters, we'll have to learn to talk with each other.

[oasis]

49. Propose a commission to explore the possibility. No promises, please.

If Democrats don't play it right, nobody gets anything for a long damn time.

[Kahuna7]

67. Nope. It's not like the issue has never come up. The mere mention

of it is guaranteed to turn off potential voters. Even voters predisposed to vote for Democrats would run the other way.

[oasis]

68. As talk of "impeachment" would have worked against Dems in 2018, any

talk of reparations will work against Dems in 2020. That's why Dem leadership kept "impeachment" talk on the down low.

There are many other items on the Democrat's "to do" list that potential voters would fully embrace.

[Kahuna7]

69. Agreed. Do not raise issues that are GUARANTEED to turn off not only swing voters...

but also Dems. Sigh.

[oasis]

71. With 2020 safely behind us, the conversation can be restarted. nt

[tonedevil]

86. I'll take things that will never happen...

for $1000.00 Alex.

[oasis]

95. Can't push it forward right now. That's all. Forums

and meaningful discussions should continue until a reasonable framework can be agreed upon.

[tonedevil]

96. This is a topic...

that somehow is always better taken up later. Meaningful discussions have never occurred so I don't know what you think there is to continue.

[Garrett78]

52. The United Nations' Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent visited the US in 2015.

This is what they concluded:

"In particular, the legacy of colonial history, enslavement, racial subordination and segregation, racial terrorism and racial inequality in the United States remains a serious challenge, as there has been no real commitment to reparations and to truth and reconciliation for people of African descent," the report stated. "Contemporary police killings and the trauma that they create are reminiscent of the past racial terror of lynching."

"Despite substantial changes since the end of the enforcement of Jim Crow and the fight for civil rights, ideology ensuring the domination of one group over another, continues to negatively impact the civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of African Americans today," it said in a statement. "The dangerous ideology of white supremacy inhibits social cohesion amongst the US population."

The reparations could come in a variety of forms, according to the panel, including "a formal apology, health initiatives, educational opportunities ... psychological rehabilitation, technology transfer and financial support, and debt cancellation."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/27/u-s-owes-black-people-reparations-for-a-history-of-racial-terrorism-says-u-n-panel/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d1af91e08f68

Reparations, in spite of being far from unprecedented, has been turned into a dirty word. But we can find ways to talk about this matter that are constructive, that plant seeds and move us in the direction of justice.

[ancianita]

55. Reparations is an official act of healing. Even openly talking about it is healing.

[brooklynite]

64. How healing is an election loss?

[ancianita]

65. Sometimes a powerful idea catches hold. You never know, do you, if the idea guarantees loss.

But it might motivate more voters. If it does, the idea is taken up by those who move forward, whether its first endorser survives or not.

Ideas like reparations are more important than election losses, more powerful, because they become a motivator for new candidates, voters, and discouraged voters, to come forward.

Most people who've not learned much about slavery or genocide have now idea how important it is to heal their intergeneration psychic wounds. Reparations is a Big Deal in one demographic whose turnout has, in fact, determined elections. Democrats who want to win still need their turnout.

We will see.

[solidLxxi]

56. Any talk of reparations that doesn't have autonomous land as it's basis

is reparations not worth talking about.

Reparations should be not only to repair what has been broken by centuries of abuse and possibly trillions in uncompensated labor, it should be forward-looking enough to recognize that in many ways, Black Americans are still being used and exploited by the same system of white supremacy that exploited Black labor for centuries and that the way to end this exploitation begins with autonomy and land.

Writing a check to the descendants of enslaved Africans will do nothing but recirculate the money back into the coffers of those who seek to exploit and take advantage of Black people. As long as Black people are included and taxed as citizens of the United States, we will be easy prey for those who've always seen us as easy prey.

Black Americans have more than paid for several states in North America through their blood, sweat and tears and it's the only form of reparations that will even come close to repairing what has been broken.

[Honeycombe8]

57. Just what the Democrats need: another controversial issue.

Most Americans are not in favor of it, I've read.

We have a good chance of winning in 2020. I hope the candidates don't blow it on myriad controversial issues, so that the main issues take a backseat.

How about a savvy response, like, "I'd be interested in looking at that. It depends on the details of any plan."

[Kahuna7]

70. It might...It might...Yeah, but also might not.. Why risk it?

[BostonBlue]

61. I won't support any candidate who endorses this idea.*

[Bucky]

92. If you won't support the Democratic nominee, you're on the wrong website.

This is a forum for Democrats. We're all expected to support our 2020 nominee.

[Mr. Smith]

62. I think this is a losing issue.

And very messy when you think about actually implementing it.

Who gets reparations?

And who has to pay?

[Bucky]

77. Which is why all the candidates say they're open to discussing it

The OP is misleading. Only one fringe candidate has come "in favor of reparations." Everyone else is only saying "we should have that conversation."

And I think you're right. It's legally dubious and politically divisive.

[katmondoo]

76. How about the Indians, they had their land taken away from them

They were forced to give up their religion, died on the Trail of Tears when they were forced to give up their land.

[LongtimeAZDem]

84. But those tribes took their African slaves with them, which complicates the issue.

[Bucky]

90. This is part of the Gordian knot that holds this issue together.

Will descendants of the Cherokee and Chippewa and Creek nations have to pay the descendants of African slaves out of the reparations that the descendants of their white persecutors pay to them? Will the whites who are not descendants of Indian removers nor of slave holders still be responsible for those reparation payments just because of their race--even if most of their ancestors weren't even in the country at the time of the atrocities?

This issue is a bottomless Byzantine maze of side issues. It makes me regret us having ever held slaves in the first place.

wait a minute...

[Bucky]

85. Or Mexican Americans who were illegally force-deported in the 1930s and 1950s.

Yeah, the question of reparations opens up a big can of but-what-abouts with virtually no end in sight for historical grievances.

Real reparations can happen best by working against current racial injustices and investing in the country's workforce opportunities and building up the programs at HBCUs and improving community infrastructure in impovrished neighborhoods. Sadly the image too many people have is of the government taxing white people to cut a check for black people. And that's simply never going to happen.

[Blue_Tires]

97. Interestingly, Bernie still hasn't...