Why Do Such Elderly People Run America?

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

The U.S. government is a creaky machine whose most crucial cogs could be generously described as “vintage.” The average age in Congress is near an all-time high. The House speaker, House majority leader, House majority whip, and Senate majority leader are all over 75.

To be clear, this phenomenon is bigger than politics. Across business, science, and finance, power is concentrated among the elderly. In the past 40 years, the average age of Nobel Prize laureates has increased in almost every discipline, including physics, chemistry, medicine, and literature. Among S&P 500 companies, the average age of incoming CEOs has increased by 14 years in the past 14 years. Americans 55 and older account for less than one-third of the population, but they own two-thirds of the nation’s wealth—the highest level of wealth concentration on record.

The prevalence of old power is undoubtedly related to the prevalence of old age. Higher-income Americans are living longer than ever and working longer, too. Leading the country is tiring work (at least in theory) but it’s not taxing in the way that factory work or construction is. As the economy shifts to white-collar labor, septuagenarians are staying at work. The share of Americans over 75 who are attached to the labor force has increased by 85 percent in the past 20 years.

(snip)

First, gerontocracy is a cousin to plutocracy. Power concentrated in the hands of old people who are also rich will predictably lead to policies that benefit the old and the rich, at the expense of the less privileged. The federal government already guarantees universal health insurance and a universal basic income to seniors, even as Republicans cry socialism when young people request versions of the same policies. It’s unlikely that young people will notch many policy wins in a government whose median age is over 70.

(snip)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/why-are-these-people-so-freaking-old/607492/

[LaurenOlimina]

1. Yup.

[Fresh_Start]

2. FFS a 78 year old with a recent heart attack is running for office

and apparently adults under the age of 40 can't make it to the polls to vote or to the mail box to return their vote by mail without a text reminding them and a team of buddies cheering them on.

the polling station I worked was walking distance to the college. Not one of the 10 volunteers was a college student, there were however 2 17 year old high school seniors volunteering.

[Steelrolled]

44. It's all about the selfies

A good selfie opportunity at polling places might do wonders. Of course you would have to restrict it people AFTER voting.

[Act_of_Reparation]

51. And the award for Most Sadly Predictable Response of 2020 goes to...

[NYMinute]

65. and who is a millionaire

[Thomas Hurt]

3. The elderly are wiser and stable geniuses. Just ask Trump

[Sunlei]

55. sickening isn't it that Trumpies the younger one still in the game...feed him more!

It is my hope Biden or Sanders picks a young popular VP. Several of these younger, brilliant people recently were candidates and suspended their campaigns.

Plus as a bonus they wanted to be President!

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Yes but

experience in specialized careers is also a factor in longevity in a job. They simply know more about laws, agencies, bureaucracies, institutions, governance, rules, schmoozing, fund-raising than your average Joe or your average millennial, and how it all fit together in legislation, oversight, enforcement. Political office is a complex specialty. It's not for the novice. We lose a lot if the wisdom of age is abandoned.

[at140]

58. JFK was the best president in my lifetime

because America was more admired by the world and he did great on social issues and economy
and he was only in his 40's.

[unblock]

5. average age of nobel laureates??

nobel prizes are often awarded many years after the achievements.

bob dylan won essentially for his work 50 years earlier.

he'd probably also be surprised to be characterized as someone in whom power is concentrated....

[LisaM]

6. Some people HAVE to stay in the workplace longer.

I'm not seeing any reasonable date where I can retire and not have to worry about being old and poor.

This article is focusing too much on wealth concentration and not enough on the fact that many, many people are not in a position to retire.

I'd also posit that we've made it a lot harder to run for office. Any youthful indiscretion is on social media for all to see. Congress people basically have to start running for re-election as soon as they get to Washington, and uncertainty is the enemy of concentration and productivity.

We also had some pretty young candidates, but even the millennials weren't out voting for them.

[appalachiablue]

15. Thank you, yes people are having to work longer for various reasons

Cost of living keeps going up, loss of jobs and homes with 2008 Crash and more.

[relayerbob]

7. Did you support Pete first?

Serious question, not snark

[Uncle Joe]

18. No,

I found his ideas and policy proposals to be too old for the times.

[relayerbob]

20. But a 78 year old man reciting slogans from the 60s was OK?

Interesting.

I wanted to see policies for the 21st century, most of which came from Warren, the true progressive with the resume to prove it. Why did you not support her?

[Uncle Joe]

24. Those long overdue policies are what the nation increasingly needs.

I supported Bernie in 2016 and still believes he has the most overall progressive set of policies combined with his long time track record.

[MrsCoffee]

59. He does have a long time track record.

For instance, let’s look at his actual resume from the 80s:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/photos-bernie-sanders-resume-as-mayor-of-burlington-vermont.html



Hmmmmm, only socialist Mayor in the US. Ran against Democrats. And we’ve all seen samples of that freelance writing.

Yeah he has a long track record of something.

[frazzled]

8. Hey, I think they're too old, too ... but the people have apparently spoken

I was looking for younger: Harris, Booker, Buttigieg, Klobuchar. But nobody wanted them.

We've got to play the cards we're dealt in a democracy. This isn't about a dictator who stays in power for generations. And neither of these candidates is either a plutocrat nor terribly rich.

I just hope they stay healthy (and/or pick young running mates).

[Laelth]

30. Hear! Hear!

Go Joe!

That’s the card I have been dealt, and I am playing it (as a former Beto and then Pete supporter).



-Laelth

[ancianita]

9. Who's the audience for the Atlantic, again?

[pat_k]

17. I'm missing the point

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm missing the point. Median age of Atlantic readers is around 50... about 7 years higher than median age of the population.

https://www.journalism.org/numbers/median-age-of-readership-by-magazine/

[ancianita]

32. I must be, too. Uncle Joe gives me no answer.

So what do you think of the article's content?

[pat_k]

40. Thoughts are mixed...

I dispute the "gerontocracy" notion. Unlike the aristocracy we have become, where the few who have the most benefit from advantages bestowed by their fellows, I have experienced too much ageism to conclude that "vintage" people are somehow bestowing unfair advantage on their fellow "vintage people."

It's not about age so much as power. Those who seek power and positions of leadership seem to be impelled to hang onto it, perhaps for longer than is "good for" the business, or the cause, or the people, or the whatever, they serve.

I would like to see more "vintage" people in positions of power recognize that long experience isn't everything. I think they need to question whether they are really the "best" person for the job in a landscape that is very different from the one they "came up" in. Is it time to think about "succession" and the benefits of bringing in, or stepping aside for, the perspectives of someone from a younger cohort? Is it time to consider whether you could make a more meaningful contribution in a different role? Whatever the outcome of such reflection -- stay or go -- fine, but the impulse to hang onto a particular position of power for the sake of hanging on to it (or engaging in a never ending effort to amass more power) needs a counterbalance of some kind.

My initial response to the post down thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=636381

[ancianita]

41. Maybe vintage people do question themselves every day. They certainly have enough folks around

them to question them if they get somewhere outside of "acting old," don't they.

People get old. They don't get stupid.

And the young have equal judgment? The art of decisionmaking that comes with both experience and database knowledge? Show me one.

"Succession" is in the eye of the person who holds the role to be succeeded. Who decides what's a "more meaningful" role, once you've earned your way into an equally meaningful role and have no boss to fire you? Boards, right? They do that all the time. Steve Jobs got kicked out of Apple, and he was brilliant and NOT old.

For most of us everywhere but govt and corporations, succession is at death. Yet everywhere competent and sharp old people go, they've often looked at with expressions that convey, "why aren't you gone yet?" "Shame on you for thinking you have a right to be where you earned the right to be!" "You look tired!" "Go home and reflect on your age."

Don't think the old and competent are treated any differently from the rest of us.
Ageism is like race, or being a woman -- just by your looks you've become subject to dis and dismiss treatment.

I won't judge how others think, but that's how I see The Atlantic's whole fake issue.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

[pat_k]

42. As I said, my thoughts are mixed.

Your points are spot on. I know the "why aren't you gone yet" look (for me it's a "What are you doing applying for this job?" look).

I didn't mean to advocate the notion that anybody over 75, or 85, or 95 should recognize it's time to "move on." Brilliance doesn't stop shining when you've been on the planet some arbitrary number of years. It just seems to me that sometimes there is a momentum behind holding onto a position of power that can obscure reflection on things that might suggest an alternate path. And I would never say "go home." Personally, I plan to be "out there" doing SOMETHING until I drop, to hell with the funny looks.

And when I said "succession" I was thinking about problems that can result from inadequate succession planning. Not actually particularly relevant to the notion that "vintage people" should "get out of the way," but is does seem that family firms are particularly vulnerable to "falling apart" when a strong person at the top "goes" (whether by death, incapacity, or moving into a different role). There seems to be natural reluctance to think about withdrawing from the business. If present, the reluctance should be confronted.

Anyway, I've rattled on too long.

[ancianita]

43. I understood, and wasn't arguing anything against what you said, just thinking from experience.

[AncientGeezer]

10. "The House speaker, House majority leader, House majority whip, and Senate majority leader are"

You candidate preference is 78.
Your old guy... is old and rich....what is the point of the OP?

[Baclava]

11. Older politicians have more time to consolidate money and power, no mystery there

[appalachiablue]

16. Yes those plus experience, wisdom and more

[Xipe Totec]

12. Old Age and Treachery

Age and treachery will defeat youth and strength, two falls out of three.
-- Jerry Hollombe

If there's a second fall, you didn't do the first one right.
-- Tim Merrigan

[pat_k]

13. The key word is "power"... for those without power, ageism reigns supreme

Those in power seek (and often gain) more power, and they hold onto the power they gain as long as they can. The prevalence of "vintage" people in positions of power is no surprise.

But heaven forbid you become the victim of downsizing or try to change professions after 50. The chances of getting a job fall to just about zero, particularly in the tech sector, management consulting, financial sector, on and on.

And god forbid you are a woman over 50 seeking employment. You are screwed. You can have vast experience and expertise, but somehow, you never get to the first interview unless you design a resume that hides your age (and leaves off a lot of that vast experience). And once the cat is out of the bag that you are "older," there is no second interview. You "aren't a good fit for the culture" or some bullshit.

Gerontocracy my ass. That implies that the "old folks" are out there giving unfair advantage to people in their age group. They are not. Those old, powerful, usually male people in decision making positions aren't hiring fellow members of the "older" class.

[The Mouth]

47. Thank you

So much vile, ageist bullshit in the article and the link.

[rzemanfl]

14. I blame Disney for saying "...dedicated to you, the leaders of the 21st century."

Some people seem to think that meant the whole century.

[IADEMO2004]

19. Old politicians have been networking and are good at it.

[greatauntoftriplets]

21. If, as they say, 60 is the new 40...

isn't 70 the new 50?

[treestar]

22. Because people vote for them

They must prefer them to whoever they are running against.

[Sparkly]

23. Why do men?

I'm sorry, somehow that's on my mind at the moment.

[wyldwolf]

25. the author should worry more about why his generation can't be bothered to even vote...

... instead of whining about boomers and older gen-Xers.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Like Bernie (78) wants to do?

Yeah, I know Biden is old, too, but I think it's kind of funny that a Bernie fan would post an article griping about old people.

[stonecutter357]

27. But you support , never mind lol fail !

[Steven Maurer]

28. BECAUSE THEY VOTE

The rest of this is silly.

[Piratedog]

29. Younger folks don't vote in sufficient numbers

You can’t change things if you’re not willing to vote for change.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

31. Baby Boomers think they are immortal

Boomers don't want to give up power to their children, because they're still children in their eyes, even though they are in their 30's and 40's. They should retire, but they've got some kooky idea that the world's going to go to shit if they do. This is my perspective being a 40 year old child of boomer parents.

[Fresh_Start]

50. Biden and Sanders are too old to be Boomers....

so don't blame the boomers for them.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

64. They are pretty close to boomers

They are like 2 or 3 years too old. Not a huge difference. I'm sure Boomers have been their peers right along that they probably closely identify with that generation. Generations are kind of an in general sort of thing. I believe the people in the tail ends of the generations are in two really, because your peers usually range from a few years head of you to a few years behind you, kind of like high school. I'm supposed to be Gen Xer, but I'm right at the tail end, so Millennial often seems like a better fit.

I don't have a problem with Sanders or Biden in particular, but our government is too heavy with older folks and that is not good representation of all of us. The major reason why we don't have many younger people involved is not because they have no interest. It is mostly financial issues that keep them from getting involved. As the original post said "gerontocracy is a cousin to plutocracy". We all know this country is about the rich people. Our government being disproportionately run by old folks is a sign that income inequality problem has gotten worse over the past few decades. It does not mean that the younger generations are lazy or not caring.

[ancianita]

33. Is this some Apologetica for lack of youth leadership?

Or is this some half-baked Apologetica for longevity, which is known to bring some benefits of civilization, even as the bodies wither?

What should be the optimal age standard, again?
Is ageism constitutional? Is it scientific?

The young, are they so much better at
forseeing the consequences of their actions,
other people's actions,
what events mean,
cause-and-effect chains of anything,
getting over their parents as flawed humans?

Are we really supposed to react to this??
Why did The Atlantic publish this?

Why does Uncle Joe post this with no comment?

There are cultures thousands of years older than ours where the old are revered, or at least respected; should they all have stuck to throwing granny in the prehistoric tar pit?

Should geezers in government have an age limit?
Should they kill themselves?
No one dares ask any of the black leaders this question. Ever. Former Panther Bobby Rush is the oldest dude in Congress.

This comes off as some hyperrationalized form of ageism.

No adults ask these stupid questions, just hyperintellectual children in grownups' bodies.

The question should be "Why don't young people run America?" Try writing about THAT.

[tarheelsunc]

34. Years of experience and knowledge tend to have some value. eom

[MyNameGoesHere]

35. For better or worse, we built this shit for you

And we're not convinced you are capable of taking it over. You haven't shown us anything. Now stop bad mouthing old people or we will take the internet, mobile phones, and cat memes we invented for your pleasure.

[Uncle Joe]

36. No we didn't, this shit was built for the next quarterly earnings report from some corporation

on Wall Street.

Our vision as a nation from a cultural and policy perspective has most certainly not been long term, it's more like "he who dies with the most toys wins."

Global warming climate change, who cares we will be long dead before the mega shit hits the fan...most likely anyway.

[MyNameGoesHere]

37. I suppose I should feel empathy

For the supporters of the Independent Senator from Vermont after the March massacre. I should.. But the 78 year old Independent Senator from Vermont was right there with the rest of us fucking everything up. He did as much about it as the rest of us did. Yet we're supposed to believe the 78 year old Independent Senator from Vermont all of a sudden is the champion of all those poor oppressed souls of the universe? Yeah no thanks.

[Uncle Joe]

39. They didn't really start listening to Bernie until 2016

when they had no choice but his message has been consistent for decades.

[TwilightZone]

57. As have been his results.

That's part of the problem. There's little or no evidence that a career politician who hasn't been able to convince members of his own cohort to support his bigger ideas over the period of decades will suddenly be able to do so, simply by winning the presidency. The presidency doesn't come with a magic wand.

Democratic voters rejected the concept pretty convincingly in 2016, and it seems that 2020 may follow a similar path.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

60. And now they've stopped.

You can listen to a broken record for only so long before it just starts to irritate you.

[LaurenOlimina]

54. Ok Boomer

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

62. Speaking of things getting old...

[LaurenOlimina]

63. he he he...

[ismnotwasm]

38. Explain why age matters aside from health and inevitable mortality

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

45. Health matters a lot (mental and physical)

Affects decision making, emotional responses, and stamina to do work. Health is a huge piece of the puzzle to leave out.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

46. A problem I have noticed with gerontocracy

The generation of the grandparents think they know best for all of us, but they aren't actively involved in raising children anymore. They aren't in touch with the children, as in the younger than 18 crowd. They haven't experienced the current struggles of parenting. Sure, they know what it was like when they were raising kids 30 - 40 years ago, but things have changed a lot since then. We need the parents to bridge that gap between the grandparents and the children. If we have a government that is too heavy with old folks, we have a government that doesn't really know what it's like to work and raise kids right now. We have a government that is fighting the fights of the past, ignores the realities of today and barely thinks of the future. If we had a better mix of people, young to old, that would be the best. We still need to know about the past (grandparents), but we can't ignore the present (parents) and the future (children).

[flamingdem]

48. People live longer and advances in health mean they can live

productive lives until their 90s.

80 is the new 65 for some.

[MineralMan]

49. It takes many years for a person to rise to the top levels of

most things. Business, politics, and just about everything else. One of the few things that doesn't reward age is professional sports.

Most people think age brings wisdom. That's part of it. But that's not necessarily true.

In any case, primary voters who are Democrats have decided that two men in their 70s are the last two candidates standing for the Democratic presidential nominiaton. Why? Well, I don't know for sure, but that's what has happened.

So, we have a binary choice once again. Age is no longer a factor in that choice.

[Act_of_Reparation]

52. The great part about generational conflict...

...is the young always win.

The Boomers lost. They just don't realize it yet. And the millennials have already lost to Gen Z. And Gen Z to whoever comes after them.

[Sunlei]

53. /s because our elected get top teir medical care and they'll live forever!

[Walleye]

56. Face it, boomers are a very large demographic

Don’t worry, we’ll be dying off soon enough. Then you get your turn to be an old fart.

[Act_of_Reparation]

68. Provided you guys don't burn this place down on your way out, maybe we will.

[Walleye]

69. Respect your elders(joking)

[Todd79]

61. Experience

As I mentioned in the other thread, it depends on the times. I would have no qualms voting for anyone young if George W. was the opponent. Don’t get me wrong, Dubya was a putz, but he had experience running a state like Texas and he was surrounded by corrupt but efficient cronies. They knew what they were doing. They left an economic and international mess, but the initial govt agencies had not been gutted.

This is different. It’s going to take a unique understanding of govt at the federal level to fix.

[NYMinute]

66. Other stories by Derek Thompson

How Capitalism Broke Young Adulthood

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Has the Better Tax Argument

Millennials Didn’t Kill the Economy. The Economy Killed Millennials.

and tweets:

Link to tweet

“It is as if, sometime around 1980, the children of the people who made it through the Great Depression and into the suburbs had decided to pull up the drawbridge behind them”

Link to tweet

Sanders could still win the nomination, but if Biden wins—and especially if the race is essentially over in two weeks—it will be fair to look back at the unsolicited Clyburn endorsement as one of the most catastrophic primary errors in the last few decades.


Biased reporter.

[William769]

67. ...