Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumI think the lesson of Elizabeth Warren is not about sexism. It's about economic populism
I'm seeing a lot of posts on other social media platforms about how it's a shame that such a talented, smart, woman couldn't win the nomination, emphasis on the woman.
I'm a huge fan of Warren and have been for years, well before 2012 and her senate win against Scott Brown. She was my number one choice in the current race, up until it was clear (to me) that she was changing her policies and messaging to put a stake into Sanders' chances. When I contemplate her rise and fall in this race, I see a clear pattern of being a strong, loud, and coherent voice for economic populism and fighting against wealth concentration and for healthcare, to muting, muffling, and muzzling those messages. The change in her rhetoric coincided with her drop in the polls, and also with her bringing on former Harris advisers and then former Clinton advisers. My guess is that those new advisers told her to tamp down her message of economic populism, fighting the fraud of the banks and financial institutions, and creating more economic equality and opportunity, but maybe it is just a coincidence.
The good news is, that I think she could have cleaned up at this point, despite her gender, by being a candidate who clearly was not afraid to promise to fight for economic justice. The bad news is that a lot of people seem to be mistaking her loss in the polls with sexism.
Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LexVegas
(6,059 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,369 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,464 posts)Good luck with that.
Assertions like these are why many of us have difficulty taking Sanders supporters seriously. They seem to routinely discount all factors outside of Sanders' narrow focus and similarly dismiss the concerns of others if they don't fall into that narrow window.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,464 posts)Ignoring the concerns of others in yet another post complaining about how Bernie is actually the real victim here isn't a convincing argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)sexism plays a big role in a lot of what goes on in America, unfortunately. What I am saying is that Warren was beating everyone in this race, despite sexism, by sticking to her core economic message. She stopped beating everyone when that message changed.
I was a strong supporter of Warren until less than a week ago when it became clear that the moves she was making were designed to hurt the Sanders run.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(113,043 posts)in their political claims against her.
One side insisted she backtracked and that her numbers didnt add up, then pointed to lazyminded articles making that claim, ignoring Krugman and other economists saying her numbers DID add up.
The other side claimed she is a liar who never really supported Med4All.
The truth was that she is all for Med4All and added a reasonable timeline that other campaigns distorted into a political opportunity for themselves.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Her numbers relied on even more rediculous assumption than even Bernie's did.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,043 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,464 posts)Very briefly and months before voting started. In reality, she was never in a position to seriously contend once the voting started. Polls taken months before the voting starts are irrelevant.
You think it's because Bernie's always the real victim in everything. I disagree.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PunkinPi
(4,875 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)core supporters. The words that they used to describe her confirm that.
What really did Liz in is her not clearly delineating a capitalist alternative to the plans that Sanders inaccurately made his own. I contributed to her, but her failure to distance from Sanders caused me to drift around, kicking Bloomberg's tires.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,464 posts)My point was that there are many factors to every loss, and summarily discounting one that seems reasonably obvious like inherent sexism doesn't make a lot of sense. I think there's plenty of direct and indirect evidence that could support the argument.
It's certainly not the only cause, of course, and I agree that some of the issues were tactical like jumping on Sanders' M4A plan initially, then trying to create some distance by providing details. I think details are sometimes best left to after one wins since basically no plan survives Congress, but that's another discussion entirely.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,552 posts)If dont think it was, youre not paying attention.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cary
(11,746 posts)Agreed. It is unfortunate.
It is also gaslighting. Some people are just compelled to bash Democrats and those people tend to support a certain candidate still in the primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
doc03
(35,325 posts)a dozen multi-trillion dollar plans that have zero chance of passing. She also turned people off with her preachy I know it all
and got a plan to save us all attitude. The same goes for Sanders, with his pie in the sky programs that would bankrupt the country.
Sanders played a big part in getting Trump elected the last time. Middle class adult Democrats and used to be Democrats that I
know say the reason they voted for Trump was people like Sanders, Warren and some others that have gone too far left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
doc03
(35,325 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hay rick
(7,605 posts)And their minions in the media. Her fall in the polls did correspond with Bernie's rise, but that was 70 years after it was obvious she was female. I don't think people who deserted Warren switched away from her because they suddenly figured out she was a woman.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Am sick of people not acknowledging the sexism Hillary and the rest of women get.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)But we are fucking sick of it.
Quit burying your head in the sand and stop excusing sexism. Its a really ugly look.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)We could go back and forth about it, but what's the point, really? It's not like I can provide photographic evidence of sexism affecting millions and millions of uneducated white men as they voted in the primaries. All I can say is I am married to an educated woman, and I look at the insane standard she's expected to meet to attain a modicum of respect from her male colleagues, and I look at how Warren was treated by her colleagues and the media, and I see a lot of fucking similarities.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(113,043 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Also, one lesson does not deny, weaken nor threaten the existence of another lesson.
Additionally, you allege her message changed midstream (without providing any evidence as such), and followed that with an 'after-this-therefor-because-of-this fallacy.
You've predicated your entire opinion on a premise full of implicit flaws, lack of supporting evidence and logical fallacies, as is often the case when one is minimizing and trivializing actual concerns.
So if that's your two cents, you may want to think about trading up. It's ironic you indict someone else with "your words don't seem very credible..." But I get it-- hold others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to, and we'll never be disappointed in our own actions or words.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,256 posts)and that there might be others
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Economic populism is what took down her campaign. Warren's strengths are her intelligence, her wonkiness, and her empathy. If she had played to her strengths, and stayed away from the populism, she would have had my full support. I wanted to see her come up with a novel approach to the issues being debated, not just repackaging Bernie's. As long as she was just being a proponent of Bernie's ideas, she was never going to peel away his support. As people are fond of saying, why vote for populist-lite when you could vote for the real thing with Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)and wealth worshipping voters.
Inclusion of people who are non-disabled, white, cis men, are okay when they like some among those "others" as long as they try to fit in.
Whiteness and the pursuit of wealth still rule the party.
Look at the reaction, from Democrats, Andrew Yang got when he proposed a policy that recognizes a baseline equitable starting gate.
People want to grab onto something to feel a sense of superiority. And I think they want a candidate who represents either that ideal or the next best thing. Unfortunately it's a Teddy Roosevelt inspired model of manly Americanism. Machismo, war and wealth worship, arm twisting, and whiteness all factor in. Warren wanted to be more inclusive of people who don't fit that mold.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,949 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
walkingman
(7,597 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,674 posts)Warren was a far better advocate for it because she could at least explain how it could be paid for, while Bernie just keeps ranting about those evil billionaires. It was sexism, not economic populism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)To deny that is naive, and I think it's become a rationalization for Sanders supporters.
Sexism Sank Elizabeth Warren
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/warren-sexism-2020/
Its important to reckon with the role sexism played in the 2020 Democratic primary
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/6/21166338/elizabeth-warren-loss-2020-primary-sexism
Has gender bias helped Bernie Sanders outperform Elizabeth Warren with voters? Seems like it
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-05/skelton-gender-bias-bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Botany
(70,490 posts)And part of that was out and out sexism. And her policies made the rich boys nervous.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Bernie- like message, she would have cleaned up? Despite ALL the evidence from 2018 and so far in 2020? I lulzed at that too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,585 posts)That many here regurgitated way before Warren muted her message.
The plain truth is Warren lost support because people were afraid that other people wouldnt vote for her against Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,285 posts)Way too many of them would rather be lied to about what is possible than to embrace a somewhat less ambitious and more realistic approach.
In that case, maybe the the lesson is that if you are going to make unrealistic promises, you might as well make them HUGE unrealistic promises.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)She was content to be a mini-Me for his expounding of policies that they both feel are needed. She failed to hit hard that her solutions would ALL be crafted within a free market economic system, but that big players would not be allowed to use their size and economic power to smother innovation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
diva77
(7,640 posts)just saw your post after I posted an OP
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden