For the ones who claim the party is misogynist: four words: Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi

[question everything]

Honestly I think that all these comments are offensive to Hillary who, after all, won the popular votes.

Just wanted to add that all the senators in the race, except for Klobuchar, wanted Franken out. Many here shunned Gillibrand, but Warrne, Harris and Booker joined that call. (Not sure about Bennet). Was one more reason for me not to support any of them unless they ended up the nominee.

Or would that be misogyny?

[Thekaspervote]

1. +1000

[LAS14]

2. I agree. And I think the votes lost from the women candidates...

... because of their gender were most likely Dems who thought other Americans in the GE would not vote for them. The percentage of people who think their neighbors won't vote for a woman is WAY higher than the percentage of people who won't vote for a woman.

NEXT TIME!!!

[Bev54]

41. Just take a look at how many women in the dem congress

compared to the Republican congress

[StarfishSaver]

50. But we're not Republicans, so we should hold ourselves to a higher standard

Insisting we have no room for improvement because we're doing better than Republicans is a non-starter.

Thurgood Marshall once said, "You know, I used to be amazed at people who would say that, 'The poorest Negro kid in the South was better off than the kid in South Africa.' So what! We are not in South Africa."

That's how I feel about this. Yes, we're doing better on race and gender than Republicans. But so what? We're not Republicans!

[Bev54]

58. Nobody is saying we should strive for improvement

but we also have to stop the purity tests, they are qualified they should run

[StarfishSaver]

60. Expecting our party to do better on diversity isn't a "purity test"

Frankly, I'm both puzzled and troubled by how resistant and offended some of my fellow Democrats are at the suggestion that the party do better in this area. It's actually pretty insulting.

[Turin_C3PO]

3. Misogyny does exist

in the party because it exists in society. Democrats are not entirely immune. Same goes for racism. Of course, misogyny and racism define the Republican Party and Democrats actively work to eliminate it. But anyway, yes, Warren, Klobuchar, and Harris did face some sexism, no doubt about it.

[StarfishSaver]

8. Of course it does

But, for some reason, some people want not only to deny it exists, but go out of their way trying to shout down anyone who says otherwise. I wonder why that is?

[Turin_C3PO]

10. I don't know, it's baffling.

Our party should be ready to confront bigotry and misogyny wherever it exists, including among our own ranks.

[Squinch]

37. Well, Starfish, after all, two women have made it to the top

of the party. Since the party's inception.

I am old enough to remember people saying "But Sidney Poitier! But Bill Cosby! But Flip Wilson! But that sitcom about the pretty black nurse!" when they wanted to say black people were not shut out of opportunities.

I guess we're at just about that level of enlightenment now about the concept of women in power.

[relayerbob]

4. My issue isn't with the party, it's with progressives.

They're the ones preferring to hire a lesser qualified man over an extremely well qualified woman. As a Liz supporter, I concur with the NOW recommendations

[JaneQPublic]

19. +1 (NT)

[Squinch]

5. Gosh. Two powerful women. I guess that clinches it.

That's like saying Obama made America "post racial."

Both are dopey arguments.

[StarfishSaver]

6. Oh, please

No one is claiming the party is misogynist. But the party does have a problem with misogyny in its midst.

And, moreover, the fact that two women have risen to the top does not mean that misogyny has been eliminated in the party or anywhere else - any more than the fact that Barack Obama was elected president of the United States means that America has conquered its race problem.

The fact that you consistently try so hard to bat down any discussion of racism and sexism here is very interesting. But it won't work.

[Turin_C3PO]

7. +1

Thanks for your post!

[2naSalit]

34. +1

[pinkstarburst]

9. And we elected one black man

president. Guess that means racism no longer exists! *sarcasm*

If you think misogyny plays no role in how women candidates are held to a different standard than male candidates, you are purposefully keeping your head in the sand.

[question everything]

15. Yes, we elected a black president and we nominated a woman

this does not mean that there are no racial and misogynistic tones in the party. We are, after all, like the rest of the country. But this does not mean that, from now on, only women and minority should be our elected officials. This is crazy and unrealistic and, yes, keeping the heads in the sand.

[Squinch]

31. Lol! Since the beginning of time it has been implicitly understood that only white

men should be the candidates. Yes, that has changed, a tiny bit, for a fraction of the number of candidates. And yes, those of us who have been disenfranchised since the beginning of time would like to see more faces like our own in power.

But to suggest that ANYONE is saying only women and minorities should be candidates going forward is absurd.

It is the expression of the fear common in those who have been in power when another group begins to share a tiny bit of that power: "They're taking over! If we give them an inch, they'll take a mile and no white man will ever have power again!!!"

It is its own expression of what we are talking about.

[StarfishSaver]

16. In the 1980s, Bill Buckley wrote a column claiming that the Cosby Show proved America's not racist

because a racist country would never make a show about a black family the number one most watched program in the country.

He seriously wrote that.

This argument is just as stupid.

[Sloumeau]

11. misogyny exists just about everywhere...

just like racism exists just about everywhere. I don't usually try to focus on exactly quantifying how much bigotry there is in the world. Instead, I prefer to try and focus on learning the best ways to reduce it. Do I think that misogyny and racism will disappear in the next 100 years? No, I do not. Do I think that there is an awful lot that we can do to reduce it? Yes, I do. Fortunately, anyone looking for how to reduce bigotry in the world can easily find articles on the internet.

I believe in initially treating everyone well, regardless of things like gender, race, sex, religion, national origin, or lifestyle. After that, I try to just give people what they give to me.

[StarfishSaver]

13. One way to deal with it is to acknowledge they exist

And to challenge anyone who tries to claim that they don't.

[jimfields33]

12. I agree

But honestly San Francisco is to be applauded for Nancy Pelosi. And the house members can be applauded for Speaker of the house pelosi. Democratic voters certainly can applause for Hillary Clinton for sure!!!!

[JaneQPublic]

14. Dem voters are especially risk averse this time.

...knowing how evil a 2nd term Trump would be.

And some of these Dem voters fear that any nominee other than an older white man would be less electable --- not because they have problems with women or POC but they fear other voters do.

As someone whose top-tier choices were all women, this view greatly saddens me.

[question everything]

20. This is true. This is the most important election in many years

We cannot afford to experiment the way we did in 2008 and in 2016.

[StarfishSaver]

21. That risk aversion is based on racism and sexism

The individuals engaging in it are not necessarily racist and sexist themselves, but they are perpetuating racism and sexism.

It's similar to an employer who refuses to hire a qualified black person, not because he doesn't like black people, but because he thinks his customers won't like it. Or the supposedly woke guy who doesn't invite his gay friends to the cookout because he thinks they might be uncomfortable around his unwoke neighbors. Etc.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what's actually in an individual person's heart. If they act in a way that enables and perpetuates other people's racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. and/or don't do anything to disrupt built-in institutional discrimination, the result is exactly the same to the people affected by it.

[JaneQPublic]

22. Perhaps.

Although Roots editor Jason Johnson has argued this view from early on in the primary cycle --- that the electorate was too sexist and too racist for Dems to risk running any candidate other than a straight white male in this critical election year.

Is Jason Johnson sexist and racist?
I don't think so, but who knows.

[question everything]

47. interesting. Thank you

[StarfishSaver]

48. Read my post and you'll see the answer to your question

"The individuals engaging in it are not necessarily racist and sexist themselves, but they are perpetuating racism and sexism."

Not only did I not claim that the people who are risk averse to voting for a minority or female are racist and sexist, I expressly said the opposite. Moreover, Jason Johnson isn't engaging in this so he's neither racist/sexist nor perpetuating racism and sexism - he's simply pointing it out.

So your suggestion that I suggested that my argument implies that Johnson is sexist and racist completely misses the point.

[pampango]

25. I suspect that at least some feminist Dem voters were worried that misogyny would hurt Warren

too much in the general. They perceive (rightly or wrongly) that the chance of beating Trump is improved with a male candidate.

Many of them would love a woman or minority nominee, but feel it is ‘safer’ to wait 4 years because it is too ‘risky’ to do it now. Of course, some will always say that it is better to wait till next time to take a chance.

[Squinch]

38. We just watched the most qualified candidate in decades

be derailed partly because of sexism in 2016. It's not like we're making it up.

[msongs]

44. the most qualified candidate in decades, that's a stretch. hillary and obama fit that bill nt

[Squinch]

45. Obama was a great president. One of the best. But his resumee when he decided to

run was about a tenth of what hers was.

[SidDithers]

17. That some women succeed in spite of misogyny is not evidence that there is no misogyny...nt

Sid

[totodeinhere]

29. Exactly. And that one black man was elected president is not evidence that there is no racism. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

52. +1000

[ancianita]

18. Who you tellin'? *Some* women does not a feminist party make. That's okay. We're gettin' there.

[Mister Ed]

23. I want to see many, many more.

Not because we owe it to women (we do), but because we need such women.

We desperately need them.

[question everything]

36. And we did it in 2018. No, not enough but I would like to think

that all the new members of the House won on their merit, on their clever campaigns with being a woman was a nice plus.

[dansolo]

24. And look at who attacked Clinton and Pelosi the most

The "establishment" Dems enthusiastically supported both Clinton and Pelosi, while both of them were attacked by progressives.

[BlueMTexpat]

26. These two exceptions merely prove

the rule.

How many males are even half as good as either of these exceptional - in every way - women?

[MrsCoffee]

27. You are really going all in on this aren't you.

Good luck with that.

[rzemanfl]

28. Bookmarking. n/t

[beachbumbob]

30. unfortunately, when females or people of color aren't selected, if falls back

not to if they were qualified or not, if their ideas were something majority of people would support, were they good at getting things done, etc.

the simple excuse would always be prejudice, sexism, etc.

except we have success female leaders, people of color, etc. So could it be the candidate themselves?

[spooky3]

32. I am questioning everything about this post.

There is a lot of research, some of which is easy to find on the internet, that documents racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, etc., throughout our society, and specifically in politics.

[J_William_Ryan]

33. The notion that the Democratic Party is 'misogynist' is idiocy.

[Turin_C3PO]

35. It's not that the party is misogynist.

But we, like the rest of society, have sexism and racism within our ranks. And we need to work to eliminate that. We’re not there yet.

[mcar]

39. Who said the "party" is misogynist?

Straw man.

[caraher]

43. Amen

[gollygee]

40. All structures and systems have some level of misogyny in them

It's embedded into our society and it shows up here and there, sometimes in small ways and sometimes large, and more in some areas than others, but everywhere to some extent. I bet Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi would be among the first to agree with that.

[caraher]

42. Who says the *party* is misogynist?

Apart, of course, from right-wingers making dumb arguments to try to bring us down?

Hillary Clinton won the nomination and popular vote despite misogyny. It made things a LOT harder. She was light years ahead of the orange baboon in every conceivable measure of competence and look at who is in the White House.

It is no blanket indictment of the party to acknowledge that our women candidates face enormous headwinds due to misogyny.

[radius777]

46. The job of president is viewed as a job for a white man,

that's the problem.

Close your eyes for one second and imagine an empty chair in the Oval Office.

Invariably most voters (including PoC and women voters) would see a tall Christian white man as the worthy candidate to sit in that seat.. the type of person that 'should be' the face of America.

That's the problem. It's hard for voters (again, including nonwhite voters) to see outside of that mold... it's a crisis of imagination.. which is how structural sexism/racism/etc works.

The Dem party is better than the GOP - but nobody is immune from structural forces.

The fact that we've had Obama, Hillary, Nancy - is a testament to the civil rights movement, and the Dem party embracing the values therein over the past 40 years - and often paying a price for it, as LBJ predicted.

[question everything]

49. This is what the USC/L.A. Times poll found last June

Don't know whether it was ever posted here

Democrats believe a white male is most likely to beat Trump

https://news.usc.edu/158435/poll-beat-trump-challenger-la-times-usc-dornsife/

[Me.]

51. And Yet

1 of 2 old white men is our final choice

[question everything]

53. Look at the poll, above (49)

Blame the system of qualifying to the debates.

My complain has been that we has three governors - traditionally the source for nominees - and none survived for long.

When Harris and Booker departed many here complained that it was no longer diverse enough. And many said: hey, this is the voters. We started with what, 24, 26? At some point we had to go down to two or 3 or 4.

[Me.]

57. I Understand That People Are looking For What They Think Is The Surest Bet

These are dangerous times but the fact that they don't think a woman could plays into the very underlying misogyny. Someone on one of the shows mentioned how many Muslim countries have had women leaders at the top while we never have. Considering the caliber of women we had running, this cuts deeper than ever this time. I would also suggest that a woman be the prime candidate for veep.

[pattyloutwo]

54. Ever heard of

the concept of fair representation? Two women in powerful positions - wow.

[question everything]

55. No, look at all the women that flipped the House in 2018

Look at all the women who chair House committees.

Still, what would you have rather do? Change the votes? Let Warren declare the winner of MA? Of CA? This is us, the voters. If the current system did not bring a woman to the top three, whose fault is it? The voters.

[58Sunliner]

56. Wow, problem solved.

But let's ask Hillary and all the other ladies of our party. Is there misogyny in our party?

[Skid Rogue]

59. Of course our party is misogynistic.

We live in a misogynistic world. We're not separate from that world.

Like all oppressed folks who live in a democracy, our victories are incremental and justice, full representation, seems to take forever. Maybe our granddaughters will have it better.

Our party is by far the best choice, though. We have some true feminist heroes, Pelosi and Clinton just to name a couple.