Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders and Some of His Supporters Want a Revolution
in the United States. That word comes up all the time in the campaign's rhetoric.
Here's the thing: Revolutions Suck! At least real revolutions do. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War
Revolutions are not peaceful changes of systems of government. Even our own American Revolutions had a death toll that reflects our small population at the time:
Between 25,000 and 70,000 American Patriots died during active military service.[33] Of these, approximately 6,800 were killed in battle, while at least 17,000 died from disease. The majority of the latter died while prisoners of war of the British, mostly in the prison ships in New York Harbor.[34] If the upper limit of 70,000 is accepted as the total net loss for the Patriots, it would make the conflict proportionally deadlier than the American Civil War.[12] Uncertainty arises from the difficulties in accurately calculating the number of those who succumbed to disease, as it is estimated at least 10,000 died in 1776 alone.[12] The number of Patriots seriously wounded or disabled by the war has been estimated from 8,500 to 25,000.[449]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War#Casualties_and_losses
We don't want an actual Revolution here. Revolutions Suck!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,720 posts)Trump says hes revolutionary.
Im tired of all the wars. Trumps against Democracy, Sanders against our party.
Its revolting and many of us are tired of the rhetoric as well as the attempts to destroy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,276 posts)The People will suddenly become enlightened and will turn against the revanchist capitalist traitors to the proletariat at the ballot box, and thus will usher in an era of peace, equality, freedom, rainbows and unicorns. With sprinkles.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,065 posts)Americans will receive the BEST news and information EVER. Personally approved by Vice President Nina Turner and Minister of Truth David Sirota.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)which is a misnomer because it was actually a war for independence and not an actual revolution where a populace throws out its own government.
Every revolution since then has been a failure in changing people's lives.
French revolution got rid of the Bourbons but ended up with Napoleon.
Russian revolution got rid of the Tzars but ended up with Lenin and then Stalin.
Cuban revolution got rid of Bautista but ended up with Fidel Castro.
Iranian revolution got rid of the Shah but ended up with Ayatollahs.
People's lives didn't change - in fact, they got worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)but not the change they hoped for.
Wanting change is normal and healthy, but you don't burn down the house, you remodel and upgrade.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sanders' plans are similar ... "We have leaking faucets, creaking floorboards and stained carpet. So let's bulldoze the whole house and build it from scratch."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
That is the sort of analogy I was visualizing. Sometimes changes are small, like painting a room, and sometimes it is more drastic, like taking out a wall or installing a new bathroom, but when you already have a solid foundation and structure, you don't just destroy it all for the sake of change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)I don't think any of his supporters actually want violence.
The right-wing misrepresents progressive views enough, let's not do it ourselves as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Indeed they do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)He wasn't actually jokingly quoting a movie?
Words have meanings.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Nope. Poor example.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mme. Defarge
(7,982 posts)Groups are comprised of individuals with their own agendas. Groups develop factions, as we know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)but their limited knowledge of history is affecting their priorities. Lasting change takes time, work, persistence, and patience. There will be disappointments and failures, but if people persevere, they will see change. However, it will not happen overnight with the waving of a magic wand or the election of a messiah candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
KayF
(1,345 posts)the term "Reagan Revolution" is commonplace, no one links it to the Russian Revolution or the French Revolution. That would be just as dumb.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Butterflylady
(3,523 posts)Never heard that before!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lastlib
(22,981 posts)"But if you want money for people with minds that hate,
All I can tell you is, Buster, you'll have to wait."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)Very timely right now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,127 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)Revolution has a specific meaning, and it is not that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(46,794 posts)"A forcible overthrow of a government or social order, in favor of a new system."
We can fix and/or change the government or social order, without overthrowing the existing one. That is progress, not revolution.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gulliver
(13,142 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,752 posts)to undo it.
Many writers/ observers (esp outside US) have noted that what looks like chaos and ineptitude in the current regime are actually trial runs for facism
That being the case we alll need to start finding common ground and FAST !
FYI- revolution is one of those words with several different meanings. It does not necessarily mean violence, so why latch on to the worst possible definition? Making a straw man argument is not a good way to build a coalition. I would say, and have said, the same things to Sanders supporters who have their own set of straw man arguments they use against Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
grantcart
(53,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Under The Radar
(3,401 posts)And it may happen, but he will not be the legitimate leader by sowing division in the Democratic Party
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)enough is enough
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)we won't hear from him in 2024.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)for a very long time. They just aren't compatible with the majority of the Democratic Party. So, he hits his ceiling at about 30% on a national basis. When there were lots of candidates, that was enough to keep him in the lead. Now that there are just two still standing, the majority of the party has a binary choice.
Unfortunately for Bernie, 30% won't cut it in a binary race. The majority will speak with its votes. It always does. That's how we got Obama and how Hillary Clinton beat Bernie by 4 million votes in that primary race.
Bernie and his supporters just can't accept that, unfortunately.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(143,999 posts)Link to tweet
We saw that in Sanders refusal to broaden his message to bring in more people. When I said exactly that on Meet the Press, that the problem with Bernie Sanders is that he has the exact same message he had four years ago when he lost to Hillary Clinton 60-40, the response from the Sanders campaign was, well, this:
Link to tweet
If your message wasnt a majority message four years ago, and you want to win, wouldnt you tweak it? They didnt. Proudly and explicitly did not tweak it. They had zero intention of growing new support by broadening and expanding their message. (Sanders famously refused to even inject more biography into his stump speech to humanize him more.)
Sanders and his campaign saw that their ceiling was 30%, and they built an entire strategy around winning with 30%. That means that instead of seeing the other 70% of voters as allies, they saw them as THE ENEMY. Even when there was ideological alignment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden