Bernie 'will play dirty': Ex-Vermont governor slams Sanders

[TomCADem]

The latest talking point from BS is that he may stay in the race even if he is not going to be the nominee, because he wants to push his agenda. That is classic BS. If he wanted to push his agenda, then he would not spend debates or have his campaign focusing on personal attacks on other candidates. It is not just Biden. BS is going to continue to attack and undermine the Democratic party, which as we have seen has helped cost him the nomination, but that is not really the goal. The goal is to elevate himself and pump his ego once again at the expense of the Democratic party.

The irony is that while Bernie continues to run negative ads, and his campaign pushes lies like Biden is suffering from dementia, you will start hearing themes about how everyone needs to layoff Bernie and not point this out, because fighting back will undermine unity. Yet, for all the talk of unity, Bernie continues to attack and serve up talking points for Trump, rather than push his so-called agenda.

That is classic BS. We need to fight and win the Presidency against Trump, against the Republicans, against the Russians and against BS. Don't fall for BS's effort to turn the Democratic primaries into a BS-ego fest. Don't repeat the same mistakes. Cornell West, Susan Sarandon, Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray want the Democratic nominee to lose if Bernie is not the nominee, and no amount of sucking up to Bernie is going change that.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/16/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-feud-100129

A former Vermont governor and ex-chair of the Democratic Governors Association is taking aim at Bernie Sanders and his campaign, accusing the senator of trying to “Hillarize” Elizabeth Warren.

In an interview with POLITICO, Peter Shumlin — who has endorsed Joe Biden for president in 2020 and served as Vermont’s governor from 2011 to 2017, while Sanders represented the state in the Senate — warned that Sanders, an independent and a self-described democratic socialist, ultimately did not feel loyalty to Democrats.

“What I’ve seen in Bernie’s politics is he and his team feel they’re holier than the rest. In the end, they will play dirty because they think that they pass a purity test that Republicans and most Democrats don’t pass,” said Shumlin. “What you’re seeing now is, in the end, even if he considers you a friend, like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie will come first. That’s the pattern we’ve seen over the years in Vermont, and that’s what we are seeing now nationally.”

* * *
The salvo from Shumlin is the latest reaction to an ongoing spat between Sanders and Warren, two longtime friends who had taken part in a nonaggression pact before entering the 2020 presidential primary. But tensions have been building slowly between the two, coming to a head at Tuesday’s debate, when a hot mic caught Warren asking Sanders after the debate if he was calling her a liar on TV, after he denied saying in an earlier private conversation that a woman could not be elected president.

[Cha]

1. Thank you! KR

[TomCADem]

5. Bernie Sanders' can't be allowed to poison another Democratic primary with personal attacks

Here is an article about Bernie's early efforts to undermine Beto O'Rourke by pushing false claims that he was funded by the oil and gas industry. As we have seen, and will continue to see, much of Bernie's debates are not so much focused on policy save for rote renditions of his stump speech. Instead, he loves to attack his opponents character and integrity. When Trump does this, we can readily see it, but with Bernie, if you point this out, it is considered divisive.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/bernie-sanders-fans-can-t-be-allowed-poison-another-democratic-ncna953976

Bernie supporters have made questionable claims about contributions to O'Rourke from the oil and gas industry, as well as his support for certain Republican-sponsored House bills — but neglect to mention that the oil and gas money came mostly from low-level industry employees (hundreds of thousands of Texans are employed by the industry), and that O'Rourke broke ranks with his party less than the average Democrat.

The real problem for Sanders' supporters seems to be that this "Kennedyesque golden boy," as one has derided O'Rourke, seems perfectly poised to steal Sanders' thunder among millennials and white liberals with his fresh energy and personal charisma. Thus, it's not enough to disagree with O'Rourke; his persona and reputation must be dragged through the mud.

Democrats should greet this early maneuvering by Sanders' supporters with alarm. If Democrats cannot show such tactics — which will be used against any non-Sanders candidate, because no one can get to the left of a socialist — for what they are, they ignore them at their own peril.

Failing to end this internecine warfare will mean that all members of the Democratic Party running for its presidential nomination will face months of minuscule ideological litmus tests turned into character assassinations. The narrative, driven by the far left and lapped up by the press, will likely result in a nomination fight that could well devolve into the kind of pointless factionalism that will only help Republicans. We've seen this movie before: Sanders' assault on Clinton's progressive credentials were pernicious in large part because they were not about policy disputes at all, but rather intended to falsely impugn Hillary's character and integrity.

[Cha]

6. I know.. I think there's more

powerful For our Democracy to let that happen.

[dalton99a]

7. +1. Despicable assholes

[True Blue American]

26. Bernie ran a lie against Biden during the debate.

He is just hurting himself. Like Trump no one believes him. Desperation is corrosive.

[jimfields33]

27. And what lie was that?

[True Blue American]

28. Did you watch his commercial

During the debate? If not I have no intention of spreading his lie. It is still running here.

[we can do it]

56. Still playing frequently in Ohio.

[msongs]

2. will? nt

[Celerity]

3. His inner core of advisors all hate our Democratic Party. Nothing good will come of this.

[onetexan]

20. What i'd like to know is why in hell did the Dem party continue to let BS run again knowing

He would pull thos stunt again?and are they going to continue letting Independents run in the future?seems the DNC is too damn weakwilled & useless. This sets a dangerous precedent going forward.

[Celerity]

22. they were terrified of a 3rd Party run by Sanders if he was blocked from running as a Dem

If you think the friction and animosity are bad now, imagine the argy bargy going down in a 3 way shoot out, especially from millions of Greens/Sanders (or whatever party he chose to run on, if any at all) supporters unleashed from all pretence of caring about us actual Democratic supporters and the Party itself.

It mostly boils down to the constitutional electoral system itself. A lack of proportional representation forces disparate groups to band together under a common umbrella, and at times the tensions are so great it actually can cause a party to implode if it is driven too far in one direction or another, to the point where one side just says fuck it, we will never support this agenda, even if it means the other main Party in the 2 party dichotomy wins a few elections in a row. There is no pressure release valve other than a systemic rupture if the gaps become too large to sustain the overall bond of some semblance of commonality. I think the first signs will be a repeated levels of voter defection by the left, whether it is to scattered 3rd parties or staying home and not voting at all.

That will only serve to worsen the situation, as the party will shift further right to capture the centre right voters to make up for the lost farther left voters. A negative, self-reinforcing feedback loop is thus potentially set up, as there is only so far a party can move left or right (in a captured 2 party system) without really starting to haemorrhage its ends to such a degree it collapses overall. Of course, thsi could also happen to the Rethugs, BUT, in their case, their extreme elements took over the party, and so far their centre-right voters are mostly on board, as they are bought off via the overriding savage economic philosophy that the right wing of the right wing also shares with them.

[onetexan]

31. he's already doing that - running as a faux Dem and trying to divide the party

the more i hear of this guy the more i think he's whacked. He hasn't achieved anything of significance in his life other than being elected to the Senate. His ideas of nonsensical and a reflection of his egotistical self. They need to put an end to non-Dems running as Dems. We've witnessed both in 2016 & now that he & his rabid followers are intent on destroying the Democratic party from within. Highly dangerous. The DNC needs to step in and put a stop to his campaign for Joe to focus on beating the Idiot in the GE.

[Celerity]

32. The DNC doesn't have the desire atm to just bigfoot Sanders and shut him down, as if they did that

they would easily double or treble the defection rate amongst his primary supporters. If it was really handled brutally, Bernie might go full rogue and run 3rd party/indie, and at that point, the states that have sore loser laws would not be able to legally enforce them, as the Sanderites will argue they were ejected from the primaries against their will. I think that argument from them would hold up in the various state courts.

It is up to Bernie to drop out, unfortunately. These type of decisions can not be dictated from the top down with impunity, as the entire election process does not exist in a vacuum where people can just push a button and get the desired outcome.

[onetexan]

34. i'm aware the DNC doesn't have the balls to put a stop to Bernie's nonsense, which is maddening and

pathetic. Screw this talk of BS going full rogue and running 3rd party, it's already clear what his intentions are. I don't think the American public are that stupid at this juncture and will vote for the guy with the best chance to beat the Idiot: Biden.
Going forward the freaking DNC needs to implement new rules to disallow any non-Dem candidate from running.

[Celerity]

36. wll, the only other Indie in the Senate is Angus King, and he isn't running for POTUS ever

Sanders is pretty unique.

Screw this talk of BS going full rogue and running 3rd party, it's already clear what his intentions are.

I have no clue what his intentions are for anything.

What do you think his intentions are?

And again, it not just Sanders and a 3rd party/indie run they have to worry about. Piss off his supporters and sympathetic people by bringing the hammer down on him and booting him out of the primaries would be courting disaster and would enrage millions, probably a shedload who were not even hardcore Bernie people. It would be a horrid look, especially if it involves shutting down the primaries before Biden hit 1991 in pledged delegates garnered from votes, not counting SD's.

[showblue22]

4. He should not ever be given the benefit of doubt

There is a reason he has hired all green party voters.



“What I’ve seen in Bernie’s politics is he and his team feel they’re holier than the rest. In the end, they will play dirty because they think that they pass a purity test that Republicans and most Democrats don’t pass,” said Shumlin. “What you’re seeing now is, in the end, even if he considers you a friend, like Elizabeth Warren, Bernie will come first. That’s the pattern we’ve seen over the years in Vermont, and that’s what we are seeing now nationally.”

[dalton99a]

8. Kick

“Don’t forget, the first office he won was beating the Democratic mayor of Burlington. He never endorsed most Democrats until his Senate career,” Shumlin said. “The only way he could win the Senate seat and avoid a Democrat winning the nomination and splitting the vote in the general election has been to run for the Democratic nomination, win it and immediately turn it down.”

[onetexan]

21. Yes, BS is aiding the Idiot's agenda

Nothing surprises me anymore so i wouldnt put it past him that he's on cahoots w the russians or this fool-in-chief.

[eilen]

54. The next step after this election is for the Democratic Party in Vermont

to run their own candidate and not endorse him or allow him to run as a Democrat. They have first hand experience at his fair weather membership. It is all about what they can do for him as he changes party allegiance after their primary.

[Hoyt]

9. That crud helped give us trump. I hope Sanders rises to occasion.

[betsuni]

10. Saying it's all about policies, making it all about personal attacks because goals are the same.

"Because we agreed on so much, Bernie couldn't make an argument against me in this area on policy, so he had to resort to innuendo and impugning my character."

That's what he does.

[Gothmog]

11. Who is surprised by this?

[NCProgressive]

12. We have already seen plenty of evidence of this

No corroboration is needed.

Thank you Gov. Shumlin.

[frazzled]

13. Self deleted

[blue-wave]

14. It's sad

But if Sanders wants his name to go down in history as a cry-baby spoiled-brat-loser, so be it.



On a positive note, Democrats are uniting like I haven't seen in a long time. Bernie will lose and so will Trump.

[True Blue American]

29. No one is

Listening to the lies because they know Biden. Many blame Sanders for Trump.

[lutherj]

15. Bullshit.

[True Blue American]

30. Brilliant answer!

Not!

[blue-wave]

35. Yes, BS from BS

[TomCADem]

41. Bernie Surrogate Susan Sarandon Explained Why They Want Trump to Win

The problem with Joe Biden is that he would do a good job. However, as explained by Susan Sarandon, "Some people feel that Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately, if he gets in. Then things will really, you know, explode," Sarandon said, referring to the political "revolution" Sanders preaches about on the trail.

In other words, it is Joe Biden's skills and competency that Bernie Sanders find threatening, because as Sarandon explained, "If you think that it's pragmatic to shore up the status quo right now, then you're not in touch with the status quo," Sarandon said. "The status quo is not working ... I think it's dangerous to think that we can continue the way we are." So, in classic Marx fashion, it is better to inflict short term pain, in order to achieve long lasting reforms through revolution.

Of course, when has this ever been the case? Most single payers were developed in evolutionary fashion, rather than through turbulent revolution unless you want to follow the model of Castro, which even Bernie acknowledges is run as a dictatorship.

[SCantiGOP]

42. I'm not a Sanders fan, but

This is simply wrong.
Sarandon was not saying that Trump would bring about anything good, or accomplish anything similar to what Sanders wanted.

An analogy: Lenin said: Give me 100 totally dedicated men and I can overthrow any government in Europe. He wasn’t saying that 100 men could conquer a country with a large standing army. He meant that, by using guerrilla tactics and terror, he could force the state to become so reactionary and oppressive that its own citizens would eventually rise up and overthrow it.
That is what Sarandon was suggesting: that Trump would be so horrible that the inevitable reaction would be a replace him with a radical socialist alternative. Was her position wrong and dangerous? Yes, but it was not an endorsement in any way of Trump’s policies.
I agree with most of Sanders positions, and I love his enthusiasm and genuine dedication to the common man. But I do not think he is electable, and having him and his movement at the forefront of the Democratic Party will lead to more Republican success. But I don’t understand the rage and hate on DU against fellow progressives who are absolutely essential if we are to save this country from the riggt wing forces now attempting to destroy our society.

[TomCADem]

44. But She Was Saying That In Comparison To A Democratic Candidate

She was not comparing Trump to Bernie. In other words, if not Bernie, then it is better to have Trump because he will make things even worse in order to plant the seeds of revolution. So, to me, that is worse than Susan saying she thinks Trump's policies are good. To the contrary, she says Trump is preferable because he is so bad.

That is what I find most distressing about so many of Bernie's campaign surrogates. It is not that they support Bernie. Rather, its this idea that if Bernie does not win, they will do things to undermine the Democratic party and harm the people to help Trump such as pushing for third party candidates.

Why? Because a Trump as leader helps sharpen the contradictions as explained by Susan Sarandon. That is what I find objectionable. Bernie and his supporters opposing progressive reforms and competent leaders for fear that by improving the lives of people, the people might not feel the need for revolution. At that point, the so-called progressives, become as much a part of the problem as Trump in oppressing the people.

[SCantiGOP]

46. While we are disagreeing

I don't really disagree with your position.
I just hope we can all agree that the constant rage and bashing of Sanders supporters is not good for our prospects in November, since we will need their enthusiasm and support to win up and down the ballot.
Biden has won the nomination. Let's quit treating the sincere Sanders supporters like the enemy.

[TomCADem]

48. It Is Not My Position. It Bernie's Supporter's Positions In Their Own Words

I am not bashing. I am letting their words speak for themselves. The fact that even direct quotes are considered bashing itselfreminds me Trump who complains about how biased the media when the quote. To me, this just underscores why Bernie Sanders is not fit to be President. It is not about ideas. Heck, I voted for Warren in the California primaries.

Rather, it is the fact that Democrats have to somehow pervert free expression and not discuss facts in the interests of appeasing Bernie Sanders. This is offensive. We are Americans. We are Democrats. If speaking up for our ideals regarding immigration, health care, and supporting fellow Democrats is considered to be hostile by Bernie supporters, then that just underscores why Bernie Sanders is a destructive force to the working class that he purports to support. Rather than us not talking about the statements made by Bernie's surrogates, the better solution is that Bernie surrogates refrain from attacking the Democratic party or cheerleading for Donald Trump.

Bernie Sanders' 2020 campaign has been quietly getting advice from journalist David Sirota for months, even as he relentlessly attacked other Democratic candidates, and now he's the senator's speechwriter

Sen. Bernie Sanders' new speechwriter for his 2020 campaign has been attacking other 2020 Democratic candidates nonstop for months as an unofficial employee, The Atlantic reported.

David Sirota, a journalist known for his unabashed progressive politics and vicious Twitter-takedowns, has been slamming candidates like Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Beto O'Rourke, on social media, his website, and in columns for the Guardian. All the while, he was advising Sanders' campaign in an unofficial capacity while helping him write early campaign speeches, according to The Atlantic report.

Sanders' campaign manager, Faiz Shakir, confirmed to The Atlantic that Sirota was working for the campaign in an undisclosed role in a test trial of sorts to see how the journalist and senator got along. Shakir said this role began on February 20, after Sirota had left a position at the Capital and Main website on February 14, and before he officially signed on with the campaign on March 11, according to CNN.

* * *
Meanwhile, old tweets from Sanders' new press secretary Briahna Joy Gray on Russian election interference, a journalist whose role with the campaign was also announced Tuesday, have gained attention on social media. In one such tweet from September 2016, Gray said, "@realDonaldTrump is right. The dems pushed the 'Russia did the hacking' angle b/c it was politically advantageous for them. #debatenight."

[SCantiGOP]

16. How in the hell

Does Sanders still have 14% in the DU poll?
Some folks here say a lot of them
were trolls who voted, posted a bit and then moved on
Not calling out current posters as trolls, but pretty certain some of your brethren were.

[zackymilly]

38. I think a lot of them were trolls, signed up, voted, and then left. n/t

[lamp_shade]

40. You make a very good point.

[TomCADem]

57. The New Talking Point Is A Rehash of An Old One, Bernie Should ...

... stay in just in case something happens to Joe Biden. It is a divisive Russian friendly talking point designed to promote division to the very end. It also does not make sense, since BS is older then Biden and Bernie had a heart attack. Nonetheless, it is designed to motivate Bernie's supporters to once again cheer for some misfortune against the Democratic nominee:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=681009

He should stay in and considering the uncertain times we are living in secure his place if Biden were unable to continue to the general election. Staying in to the convention is the correct and pragmatic move.

[littlemissmartypants]

17. Irony: "BS," there's just no getting away from that moniker. nt

[safeinOhio]

18. He might save lives if he thru in the towel now

and saved people from having to go to the polls, risking catching the virus.

[lamp_shade]

19. Will 14% support for BS change when he drops out? Not by much from the looks of things.

Just my opinion.

[Celerity]

23. Sanders as choice disappears and I assume this forum will be shut down like a gelateria in Milan

[lamp_shade]

24. Aha that's right. Then we'll watch Undecided and Gabbard %ages go up.

It'll be interesting.

[Celerity]

25. I do not think the admins will keep it open once Bernie drops out, Gabbard is not worth it

[Turin_C3PO]

45. Most Bernie supporters here

are pretty reasonable. I predict most of them will get behind Biden.

[zackymilly]

39. See post #38. n/t

[PubliusEnigma]

33. Hit the road, Bernie. You've overstayed your welcome.

[SCantiGOP]

43. Sounds like you don't want them voting

for the Democratic nominee in November.

“hit the road”. Not the way to build a winning coalition, when we will need every liberal and progressive vote to beat the billionaires, racists and Trump fanatics who want to solidify their stranglehold in our democracy.
Why the hate, everywhere in DU but typified by this thread, for a good man who has dedicated his life to fighting for social and economic justice?
Disagree with his election strategy, but please don’t insult his supporters.

[mcar]

37. Is anyone surprised by this?

[Hortensis]

47. Reminds that every VT senate election is rigged so that

the GE only allows I-Sanders and the Republican candidate on the ballot. He runs as a Democrat in the primary to cut out Democratic candidates, then switches and runs as an Independent alone against the Republican, no sanctioned Democrat on the ballot. This is done with the collusion of VT's Democratic Party "establishment," the only one I know of that Sanders doesn't insist is really mostly as corrupt as and no alternative to Republicans.

[karynnj]

49. Vermont's election is not rigged

People can and have run against Sanders in the Democratic primary... And they lose. The party WANTS Sanders to run to avoid a mess in the general election.

[Hortensis]

51. Democratic primary opponents are smashed with the comparatively

enormous resources of the Independent incumbent and his donors, with the connivance of party leaders who assist Sanders to a degree he only dishonestly claimed the DNC helped HRC. Many VTers, strangely , feel the party should refuse to let I-Sanders run as a Democrat specifically to keep Democrats from having a liberal choice in the GE.

McConnell and all the other Republican senators also win their races using big money and power to smash all opposition in their states, except in their cases it's their own party doing the rigging for a candidate from their own party.

Btw, do you know what happens, in any precinct, town or state, when the Democratic Party is the only game in town for too long? It gets infiltrated by non-Democrats.

I really don't think you should assume the results of elections manipulated from beginning to end to cut Democrats out of the GE, by your own admission, really show what VTers want.

[karynnj]

53. I live in Vermont

Money is not the big problem. Bernie had the highest approval rate in his state in the entire Senate. This would be like primarying a very popular incumbent Senator. Party identification. Is not the issue here.

[Hortensis]

55. "I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat"

Bernard Sanders

If I lived in that lovely state, I actually would have no particular problem sending an honest and ethical socialist to join our overwhelmingly liberal Democratic caucus, but that's not the alternative VTers have to voting for a Republican. What kind of person would promise to try to steal the Democratic nomination from the choice of Democratic voters, much less try? Today's Republicans ruthlessly depend on and support election theft, of course, but that's virtually unheard of among the liberal Democrats Sanders despises. And Sanders doesn't go on our record.

As for those ratings, probably not more than half, if that, of predominantly white rural VTers are liberal by nature and ideology, the rest conservative, most leaning moderate. And because of that overall moderate conservative culture, by far most VT conservatives don't approve of rabid Republicans and vote as conservative Democrats. And those figures suggest they approve of Sanders performance as much as some others, I'm assuming including of his hostility to the liberal Democratic Party. This is 2020 and they are conservatives, after all.

[R B Garr]

50. It's always interesting that he claims

to be a victim of a rigged Democratic establishment when he is actually the one with that kind of rigged reelection strategy in Vermont.

[Hortensis]

52. Populist Kool-Aid. Always a market for it of the sorts eager to

have their real antagonisms and delusion-based resentments stoked. These days just saying "Democrat" mostly does the job.

[Cha]

58. People notice and he lost.

[Hortensis]

59. Yes, and he's still "playing" dirty. It's not that he's a

78-year-old extremely slow learner but that it's natural to both him and the trumpsters he has always had to draw in order to not just disappear into obscurity. He knows what he's doing. It was always totally impossible for him to win by appealing to a majority of Democrats, AND Russia will only assist a spoiler. But just the former means he HAS to bring others of his sort in from outside.

[TomCADem]

60. Even In The Midst of a Health Crisis...

...He and his surrogates are resorting to the same tricks whether he is inventing multiple heart attacks by Michael Bloomberg or saying that Beto is secretly on the take of oil companies or that Elizabeth Warren is secretly a candidate for the elite, Bernie repeatedly demonstrates that is unfit to be President.

[Hortensis]

61. +1000. He'd be the nonentity he always had been, tho,

without those who flock to these tactics. It's no accident that his current role developed in a time of serious national anxiety, and abetted by major disruptors. Good times flout wannabe populist leaders and their wannabe mobs the way sunshine vanquishes bacteria and vampires to dark cracks.