Isn't It A Pity

[H2O Man]

I'm not confident that what I have to say here today will be well received, but I think it is important. It is possible that one person might actually read the OP in its entirety, and think it raises a point which is potentially valid, and thus worthy of consideration. And quite a few of us are presented with time to ponder current events, and put them in a longer-term perspective.

This is something that I have been saying to friends, associates, and even people I don't much know on the internet. Events today suggest – at least to me – that the time to argue about the primaries have passed. In fact, they are long gone. This, however, does not translate into our having to agree on which of the two remaining candidates is better or worse. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and that is a good thing.

It does mean that we should all recognize what is unfolding since South Carolina. And that translates into avoiding insults directed at either Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders, and equally important, to avoid attacking either one's supporters – no matter how fun it may appear on the surface. Even when we hear or read someone saying stupid things. In fact, especially when we are confronted with such nonsense.

Both of them have strengths and flaws, both as politicians and human beings. Both are running because they truly believe it is the right thing to do. Joe is not running because he is a “corporate Democrat.” Bernie is not running because Putin wants him too. There are, of course, numerous examples of more ignorant, hateful, and histrionic things being said about who has to be picked for VP, who has to drop out immediately, and other such shit. Make a conscious effort to avoid stepping into such shit.

We are all entitled to our opinions, and subject to our biases, but absolutely no one here will have any say in what either Joe or Bernie does. We all think we are right, and if others would simply do exactly what we think they should, everything would be much better. That is human nature, despite the fact that it never has, is not now, and never will be the case. The prime example, as horrible a case as it is, would be Donald Trump's belief that he should dictate every thing to every one, even today as he is being exposed as not only having any self-control, but as being utterly out-of-control.

Now, let's consider for a moment what Trump's reaction will be, if the Democratic Party unites. Are there any indicators that we might identify? Here are two that I think are important. First, he has begun to self-identify as a “war president.” Thus, in some of his public utterances, we note he wants the public to view him in this same light. By itself, this could be taken for just more of his foolishness.

Thing two: Jared Kushner is running his own private “task force” regarding the corona virus crisis. It is composed of government officials and “business leaders.” What could possibly go wrong, you ask? The synergy of these two hints that this administration is moving rapidly to “Continuity of Government” plans. Let's look closer.

Many governments have (or had) continuity plans for times of national crisis. Generally, in these cases, the anticipated “crisis” would be war. This country has long had COG plans. They were upgraded during the Cold War, when Ike was president. They would be upgraded again in the Reagan years – by VP Bush and Ollie North.

The only time that COG plans were actually used was when Cheney determined they were needed on 9/11, The Cheney-Bush administration never informed the public of this. However, newspaper reports in March of 2002, and Senator Robert Byrd's 2004 book “Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant President” (Norton; page 79) document this.

Since Bush and North's contributions to preserving democracy in the United States – if ot around the world – the COG is instituted by a “war president.” It puts only one branch of the federal government in full control, meaning an executive sans legislative or judicial branches. More, it elevates select corporate heads to “serve” as part of the executive branch, in ways that would be Trump's dampest of dreams.

It also allows for detention without any hearing or trial of those the executive branch believes to pose a potential threat. Indeed, what is fascinating to me – and proof that people can change – in 1968, Senator Byrd had argued on the Senate floor that Martin Luther King's proposed Poor People's Campaign” posed such a threat as to represent a national crisis. He demanded that the Johnson administration lock King up, beyond judicial reach.

Of course, one might think that such a plan was far fetched in today's context …..at least until they read about AG Barr's recent outreach to some congressional leaders. See:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/doj-suspend-constitutional-rights-coronavirus-970935/?fbclid=IwAR2un-vN649cwbyXfhq4b2I6jP79FGx_xrhF4oNZ1gRbzU-67V3hXGpIruU

This could also lead – if Democrats and others unite – to the Trump administration attempting to postpone the November elections, We do not know how long the corona crisis will last. Trump says that it won't take long, experts say it could last up to 18 months. Who do you believe?

Polling places tend to be crowded, which isn't good for containing a virus. But perhaps we should begin to focus on the possible remedies, to be prepared for the time when the Democratic Convention is scheduled for. I do not know if having mail-in ballots is the answer, or at least part of it. But I do know it will take greater minds than my own, and that these types of issues are more important than much of what people are discussing today about the primary contest.

Peace,
H2O Man

[boston bean]

1. I can listen and find common cause with what you say of trump.

But Bernie will not be the nominee so there is no need to make pretend he could be.

[H2O Man]

3. Right.

I had hoped that no one would even focus a tiny bit of attention on saying who will or will not be the nominee. I will suggest that since South Carolina, a rational person should be able to figure that out without any trouble. I have not backed any candidate in the 2020 primaries, as I am content to let the voters decide. I liked virtually every single one, and was not only able to identify their individual strengths, but recognized each as superior in every way to Trump. I will say that I've liked Joe Biden longer than any of the others.

My focus this year is to try to defuse what is the increasing tensions between the supporters of various candidates, with but one goal: to crush Trump in November. In real life, away from the computer, I have family, friends, associates, and casual acquaintences who have liked one candidate or another, which is good. But too many of them have come to resent other candidates, to dislike and insult their supporters, and fail to see that we do not have the luxury of such negative energies at this time. We have to beat Trump.

I am confident that we will have an outstanding ticket this year. I think we can even flip the Senate. But it requires, indeed demands, unity of purpose. Our Constitution is at stake, as is this country.

[boston bean]

5. I am gonna vote for the democrat. I am sorry, but anyone who supported one of the dem candidates

and is Considering not supporting the nominee can go straighten to h e double toothpick.

Truly, I have no patience for it in these times.

I am not wasting my energy on such stupid, cause there isn’t a damn thing I can do about it. Plus I refuse to allow it to have any power over me. It feels like hostage taking.

They need to buck up.

[H2O Man]

7. That's good.

I think it is better if you aren't thinking about Bernie or his supporters. That might be a good approach for those who view things in the same general manner that you do.

For myself, a lot of my family, friends, and associates like Bernie, while others like Joe. And that's fine.What I find troubling is when otherwise intelligent, good people talk (or post) nonsense about the other candidates and their supporters. There is, in fact, not only zero benefit in that, but negative consequences.

That energy should instead be invested in the positive. That may or may not include communicating with what one mistakenly sees as "the other side," or worse yet, "the enemy." Hopefully, any sane person who likes either candidate will recognize that we are all in this together. We are not on some imaginary wall, where some will perish while others survive.

[boston bean]

11. As soon as he drops out, I will be happy. I have no joy

In living a redux, thank you.

see, I am all in to win. The guy has lost. Let’s move on with it. . Past is prologue with him and I have no use for it.

[H2O Man]

12. That's fine.

I'm fully confident that no person here will mistake you for a Bernie supporter! (grin) It's best to not think about him. I think it's good that you can start focusing instead on advocating for Joe Biden in the most positive of ways.That's the best thing. Anything else, not so much.

Not only will Biden be a solid president, he will place competent people in his administration.

[boston bean]

13. I agree people should move on from Bernie.

Too bad some won’t. That is after all what is happening.

I ain’t the bad guy here.

[H2O Man]

14. There are not

"bad guys" on our side. There are "very bad people" on the republican side.

I do not think that anyone must "move on from Bernie" in order to fully support Joe Biden as the nominee. As long as they at very least vote for him, I'm fine with their continued support of Bernie and the movement he currently leads. That movement will last well beyong Bernie and Joe's political careers, and that is a Good Thing. Our party does best when a variety of people with a wide range of thinking pull together to accomplish their common goals. I'm convinced that Joe Biden happens to present the vehicle best able to do that now.

By the way, I hope that you do not think I view you as a "bad guy." I've known you on this forum for many years, and hold you in respect no matter if we agree or disagree on any given issue.

[boston bean]

15. Anyone considering not supporting Biden is the bad guy.

Cause any which way you slice it that helps Trumpass.

[nolawarlock]

19. Thank you! I agree!

I am so sick and tired of "unity" meaning that we have to kowtow to these children screaming every five minutes about taking their toys and going home. Ok kids. Go home. Let the adults sort it all out.

I'll say one thing about this virus, it sure removes quite a few of the f#cks we have left to give.

[hangaleft]

2. Great song!

All Things Must Pass just might be the best post-Beatles album, although I personally prefer Plastic Ono Band.

As for the points you raised, it seems to me that legislation should be introduced now mandating that all voting, beginning on November 3, 2020, shall be done by paper mail-in ballot. There’s plenty of time to get it done. The logistics wouldn’t be that difficult.

Uniform mail-in paper ballots (which could be made scannable to expedite the counting process) would address your concerns and leave a paper trail leaving no question as to who won the election while minimizing, if not eliminating, tampering with the results.

[H2O Man]

4. Thank you!

I love both of them. Plastic One Band is so powerful. John is my favorite musician, though George is mighty close. (I saw that Yoko released a tape of John & her practicing "Luck of the Irish" this month.)

Trump is a cowardly, tiny excuse for a man. He will do anything to avoid a fair election in November.

[sellitman]

38. George was my favorite Beatle

His "All Things Must Pass" is my favorite album of all time.


Just saying.

[H2O Man]

40. It is a great album.

It has held up over the decades, a clear indicator of its quality. My love of it has actually increased, and I love the various versions of many of the songs available today.

[sellitman]

43. Yes indeed.

Old age does effect your tastes. Mine has mellowed somewhat.

And yes on the newer released versions. They are amazing.

Love & Peace.

[Me.]

6. I Wonder Who The Designated Survivor Will Be

Because as you know, shadow governments just never go away.

[H2O Man]

9. It won't be me,

nor do I believe it will be Me.

Sorry, couldn't control myself.

You raise an interesting question. We can only speculate on the answer, though that is a good thing to ponder. But, before starting, one needs to consider what the current make up of the entity. And that is not as clear as it was in 2001.

[Me.]

16. I'm Guessing Either World Wonder Jared Or Princess Perfect

[H2O Man]

20. Ever since Jared

brought peace to the Middle East, he has sought out new challenges. He will no doubt find the cure for the corona virus. Indeed, he may be the cure!

[Me.]

21. Quite

look how he solved the murder of Kashoggi

[H2O Man]

23. Yes, definitely.

No one else on earth had any idea whatsoever who had brutally murdered Kashoggi. Jared alone was able to see what was not visible to anyone else, solve the crime, and deliver justice. I can honestly say that no other man, except possible Trump himself, deserves to be married to Ivanka.

[sellitman]

36. Soylent Jared?

[babylonsister]

8. I'm in

full agreement about the primary. That will sort itself out without anyone's help or opinion from DU.

It seems absentee voting is working well enough to use v. depending on traveling to the local polling place. Now would be the time to get that in place all over the country. That is how I voted this year in Florida.

[H2O Man]

10. Thank you!

It does always sort itself out. Always. But while we win literally every time it works itself out well, we lose every time it leaves jagged wounds. And that has included times where very different parts of the party withhold support for the Democratic Party's ticket. Hopefully, enough people consciously chose to avoid allowing their negative emotions to over-ride their intelligence in 2020.

One of my daughters uses the mail-in ballot. However, there was one election where despite her repeated requests, she did not get a ballot. That resulted in a lot of miles being put on my vehicle so that she could vote in person.

[bluescribbler]

17. "We lose every time it leaves jagged wounds."

I am old enough to remember 1968. The police riot at the Chicago Democratic Convention and the subsequent nomination of then VP Hubert Humphrey so wounded the party that we wound up with President Nixon. I thought that he was the worst President I would ever see. Then we got Ronald Reagan. Then we got Dubya. And still I thought we couldn't do worse. We MUST send the orange menace home. there is no other option. Our democratic republic depends on us. Intraparty squabbling only plays into his and Putin's hands.

[H2O Man]

22. I didn't think

that I'd live long enough to see any year that could compete with 1968. What a combination of beauty and madness. I remember listening to The Beatles (the White Album) with a friend, and not being sure of the intended message of Revolution9. But, looking back, it sure summed up the times.

I'm in complete agreement on the presidents .... I'd include Bush the Elder .....and I certainly remember being fully confident on the night Nixon resigned that the long national nightmare was over. It's become a recuring nightmare, though.

It seems to me that today, a growing number of people are becoming increasingly aware that the American economic machine depends upon those at or towards the bottom to operate. The clerks in the check-out line in the grocery store, for example. That same dynamic is found in the social-political system. And so I agree 100% that our nation's future depends upon us. No "leader" is going to save us by doing for us what we can, should, and must be doing -- though the wrong people in leadership positions can push us towards extinction.

[ucrdem]

18. Unity is good. Together we stand.

But we can't unite until the primary election is decided. Sanders should have conceded a week ago. There's no plausible reason for postponing it. He has important work to do in the Senate. Until he suspends ill feelings will continue to be expressed, rightly in my view. Politicians need to know what people are thinking. So it's pretty much up to Sanders to make unity happen at this point.

[H2O Man]

24. Thank you!

You made some interesting and important points. I respect and appreciate that. I'd like to respond to a few of them, though I have just read your post and so my thoughts are not organized.

Right now, Joe Biden has about twice the support that Bernie Sanders has, which is substantial at this point in the primary contest. In both groups, there is a range of people, spanning those who recognize that attempts to unite are necessary right now, to those who have closed their ears and minds to anything that people on the other side thinks. We've seen similar splits before, and by no coincidence, when the divide is harsh, we lose. Indeed, the Democratic Party can not win when it is divided this way.

We've seen several examples how emotional reactions, rather than rational thinking, creates hostile divides. One of the most interesting, at least to me, examples is found in the Tulsi Gabbard campaign. Hostilities from 2016 saturated most of her 2020 run. While she is a bit outside of the mainstream of our party's leadership, and had zero chance of being the nominee, her focus on protecting the people in the military sent to kill and be killed in the Bush-Cheney wars was sincere. Certainly the foreign policy in the Middle East demands a thoughtful discussion within our party.

Yet there were bitter, often ignorant attacks on her -- she was a Puton mole, she'd run third party, etc. Since she dropped out and endorsed Joe Biden, hopefully those who engaged in such stupid attacks can recognize they were not only wrong, but they were actually doing Putin's job of dividing our party for him, free of charge ....although there is a price to be paid.

There are individuals who sincerely support either Joe or Bernie who are wise enough not to engage in the such nonsense. There are those in each camp that do. And, in the middle, there are those who simply want the divide resolved as soon as possible, no matter if they prefer Joe or Bernie.

Most of us have our own opinion on how the divide is healed, including many who share your view that it requires that Bernie drop out immediately before the healing process can begin. And there are many others who recognize that the healing process can and must begin now, in order to smooth the transition to the eventual and unavoidable nomination of Joe Biden this summer. Everyone has the right to their own opinion on that.

The problem, in my opinion, is that a minority of supporters from both camps are escalating the shrill and histronic attacks on the other candidate and his supporters. One need look no further than this forum for proof positive of this. And too often, in times of tension, it is those voices that get the most attention, and do the most damage.

[ucrdem]

44. You're welcome, and thanks for a thoughtful response.

I appreciate your wish to see less friction. But the problem is not supporters: the problem is that there are opposing camps. Why is there still a Bernie camp? How can that possibly help in November? No doubt Sanders imagines he's engaged in political theater or some such nonsense but he can do that as a private citizen. The primaries need to end soon or we'll be in locked in an endless deathmatch that doesn't leave enough time to run a fall campaign, as in 2016. Hillary did what she could but was undercut by having to fight a two-front battle. So there's good reason to object to Sanders' posturing.

Anyway take care!

[malaise]

25. Well you succeeded

I finally signed up to post in this forum.

Excellent read although I really wish the anti-neo-liberal wing had more say in the proceedings for the future.
You and your family stay safe my brother.

[H2O Man]

26. I have a question

for you:

My older son is watching a movie titled "The Joker." How did that character ever get elected president in 2016?

[malaise]

27. That is a question for everyone

It is absolute madness - at the end of the day M$Greedia's desire for ratings and profits must be a significant part of the answer to how we got here. Remember the CBS moron who publicly stated that the Con was good for their ratings.

[H2O Man]

31. I sure do

remember the media giving Trump unlimited, free campaign coverage.

You'd think that after the Murray Franklin show, people would have recognized how dangerous he was.

[malaise]

34. And the NYT and NBC gave him all the attention he wanted

This monster was created

[Laelth]

28. Beautiful OP and thread. Thank you. n/t

-Laelth

[H2O Man]

35. Thank you!

Much appreciated!

[democrank]

29. I respect your voice of reason, H20 Man. Thank you

I’m currently passing over certain posts and trying to concentrate on posts here that offer important information and suggestions that might be helpful to me, my family, friends and neighbors during these difficult times. My concern for my family, friends, neighbors, and all those helping out during this crisis has deepened and the only anti-anything I’m supporting at the moment are those posts that concentrate on getting rid of that heinous POS Trump.

I just checked on my 83 year old neighbor who lives alone and on the way back witnessed the return of some redwing blackbirds.

Hope your family is doing okay.Some unity and peace from Vermont to upstate New York.

[H2O Man]

37. Thanks!

Well said.

My focus iDivides n politics is on crushing Trump, keeping the House, and winning the Senate. Divides created by the presidential primaries make that difficult, and for no good reason.

I do not read a lot of the OP/threads on GD-P either. But there are a number of people that I've liked and respected for many years, that are posting some bitter crap that surprises and saddens me.

We are all doing fine in my house, thank you. I hope the same for you & yours!

[ms liberty]

30. I agree with everything you say here

Unfortunately your first exchange on the thread illustrates our ongoing problem; people who are unable to let go of their pet peeves for the greater good.

My personal theory is that in 2016, while there were 'russian trolls' feeding disinformation and propaganda to Bernie supporters, there were others who also were feeding disinformation and propaganda to Clinton supporters, and to other candidates supporters. Why only create dissension from just one direction? Once they had weaponized us against each other, they didn't need to do anything much else to feed the fire, it fed itself. A lot of people who see themselves as being too smart to fall for it have, and here we are. These people are never going to admit they've been duped. Only their enemy's supporters have been duped, and are therefore unworthy and should be shunned.

I supported Bernie in the last primary as did most of my friends, but every one of us willingly voted for Hillary in the general. I supported Liz Warren this primary and will happily vote for Joe. But the way some here talk to each other is ugly and does no good to our cause.

I will be surprised if this is not alerted on and removed, because people don't like unpleasant truths.

[H2O Man]

39. Thank you!

The first person I spoke with on this thread is someone that I have long liked and respected. While I do not agree with everything the person said, I was okay with what I thought were attempted injections of anger towards Sanders and his supporters. I consider that person a friend, though they may view me differently. (I actually agree with most of the reaons people dislike me! Indeed, I am aware of far worse qualities I have that they are unaware of!)

The other person who joined in on that specific part of the thread reminded me of a line from Lennon's song "Steel and Glass" -- "You leave your smell, like an alley cat." It was, intentionally or otherwise, an attempt to insult Sanders's supporters in exactly the most damaging of ways. No need to respond to such nonsense.

I think that we had a good field of candidates this primary season. Each being human, complete with strengths and weaknesses. Each far, far superior to Trump.

[Uncle Joe]

32. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread H2O Man.

[H2O Man]

41. Thanks, Uncle Joe!

I hope that you and yours are well. These are strange and unsettling times.

[magicarpet]

33. Vote by mail, every state, coast to coast.

We need social distancing,
We need to up the voter participation,
We need to make it easier to vote,
We need a work around for long lines at polls, often contrived,
We need a work around for too few voting machines at some locations often contrived,
We need to stop the changing of polling places at the last minute,
We need to trash the use of electronic voting machines who's votes tabulated can not be audited, but easily manipulated.

We need to think smarter and use the techniques used by republicans. Disasters mean immediate corrective reforms are required. When disaster strikes we must be at the ready with plans to bring drastic change that reshuffled the deck in our favor.

WE MUST PUSH FOR MAIL IN VOTING NATION WIDE, for the up coming November 2020 election and every local, state, and national election thereafter.

ALL OF THE VOTING PROBLEMS LISTED ABOVE magically disappear with mail in only voting.

The emphasis should be we need to social distance, we do not know when the pandemic will be over, many election poll workers are elderly, we can not take the chance these elderly poll workers will get COVID-19 or the general voting population.

WE MUST SET UP AND VOTE BY MAIL 11/2020.

[H2O Man]

42. Thank you!

Great post! I really, really appreciate it!

[Demsrule86]

45. The primary is over...and Biden won...don't care what Bernie thinks or wants...he just needs to go.

[H2O Man]

46. Yes. Thanks.

I'm confident that everyone knows what you think.