This Teen Died of COVID because of no Medicare for All

[wellst0nev0ter]

Teen Who Died of Covid-19 Was Denied Treatment Because He Didn't Have Health Insurance

A 17-year-old boy in Los Angeles County who became the first teen believed to have died from complications with covid-19 in the U.S. was denied treatment at an urgent care clinic because he didn’t have health insurance, according to R. Rex Parris, the mayor of Lancaster, California. Roughly 27.5 million Americans—8.5 percent of the population—don’t have health insurance based on the latest government figures.

“He didn’t have insurance, so they did not treat him,” Parris said in a video posted to YouTube. The staff at the urgent care facility told the teen to try the emergency room at Antelope Valley (AV) Hospital, a public hospital in the area, according to the mayor.

“En route to AV Hospital, he went into cardiac arrest, when he got to AV hospital they were able to revive him and keep him alive for about six hours,” Parris said. “But by the time he got there, it was too late.”

Biden's own healthcare plan says up to 10 million people will be denied insurance. And he says single payer health care does not work in Italy, despite Italy having one of the best health care outcomes among developed countries, before the coronavirus.

We need to stop playing games and give everyone Medicare.

[jimfields33]

1. Voters decided ACA was better per primary results so far

Maybe this virus will change the next 50 state primaries.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. Poll after poll said dem primary voters prefer M4A

Unfortunately, they are not single-issue voters, and they believe Biden is the better candidate to take on trump.

[jimfields33]

22. Ugh!!!

It would be interesting to see what would happen if we could start them over. Lol.

[George II]

31. No they don't. Poll after poll said Democratic primary voters want a form of universal health care..

...not specifically "medicare for all".

Care to show just ONE poll that said that?

[wellst0nev0ter]

72. I'll give you an entire link

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=exit+polls+medicare+for+all

[George II]

73. None of the first several results don't say the preference is "Medicare for All"...

And those are EXIT polls, not "polls".

A couple of examples:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/march-10-primaries-live-updates-democratic-presidential-candidates-face-6-n1153296/ncrd1154931#liveBlogHeader

“a government plan for all instead of private insurance,”

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-lost-super-tuesday-ii-same-states-prefer-government-run-health-plan-over-private-1491678

CNN exit polls in Washington, Michigan, Missouri and Mississippi showed that a significant majority of Democratic voters in each state backed government-run health care

The results are all non-specific government plans, not "medicare for all"!

Claiming that all the candidates' plans were "medicare for all" is simply misleading.

[wellst0nev0ter]

77. Semantics games. Perfect.

Let me play along: what is the difference between "government plan for all" versus "Medicare for All"?

[George II]

78. Lots of difference. Do you know how the current Medicare plan works and how it's implemented?

[lapucelle]

176. Medicare for all is a model for delivery of a government-run plan.

There has been legislation in the past that proposed individual states delivering the health care rather than a federally run system.

[wellst0nev0ter]

79. Your own link says "Most Mississippi Democrats support 'Medicare for All'"

You have to be purposely oblivious to miss that.

[George II]

82. Then the article goes on to say:

Fully 6 in 10 say they support replacing all private health insurance with a single government plan for everyone.

That is NOT necessarily "Medicare for all"

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. Yet NBC is able to read between the lines and report likewise

why can't you see the deeper meaning?

[George II]

89. Because there is none. "Medicare for all" (TM) is most likely not what they were asked....

At least none of the exit polls I saw said that.

[ChiTownDenny]

47. The article states he was denied healthcare because he had no insurance.

The ACA provides $0/mo. options. These plans have high co-pays and high deductibles but are overall better than not having insurance and one is insured so being denied service because of lack of insurance would no longer be an issue.

[questionseverything]

136. at 17 he couldn't buy insurance anyways

and I hear lots of friends talk about having to pay the co pay at time of service

healthcare should be a right and not so complicated

[ck4829]

175. Indeed

[TomCADem]

51. How Many Like This Teen Will Die Because Bernie Helps Trump Win?

I think you raise a good point about people dying because of COVID-19 and Trump's incompetence and responding. Bernie is continuing to try to help Trump win.

Italy has single payer, yet thousands of people are dying.

[NCProgressive]

74. But .. but .... Italy is different

They eat a lot of pasta.

[sheshe2]

81. Yes and love a glass of Wine!

[TomCADem]

91. Politico: Trump's mismanagement helped fuel coronavirus crisis

I know some Bernie supporters are trying to spin single payer as the reason why COVID-19 has spread so fast in the U.S. unlike South Korea, but that does not explain Europe. Also, a lot of the reason why we are behind is due to Trump. Thus, to the extent anyone is trying to undermine Democratic efforts to beat Trump, then they are culpable for the deaths caused by his mismanagement, particularly since we now can see Trump's record.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/07/trump-coronavirus-management-style-123465

On Friday, as coronavirus infections rapidly multiplied aboard a cruise ship marooned off the coast of California, health department officials and Vice President Mike Pence came up with a plan to evacuate thousands of passengers, avoiding the fate of a similar cruise ship, the Diamond Princess, which became a petri dish of coronavirus infections. Quickly removing passengers was the safest outcome, health officials and Pence reasoned.

But President Donald Trump had a different idea: Leave the infected passengers on board — which would help keep the number of U.S. coronavirus cases as low as possible.

* * *

For six weeks behind the scenes, and now increasingly in public, Trump has undermined his administration’s own efforts to fight the coronavirus outbreak — resisting attempts to plan for worst-case scenarios, overturning a public-health plan upon request from political allies and repeating only the warnings that he chose to hear. Members of Congress have grilled top officials like Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar and Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield over the government’s biggest mistake: failing to secure enough testing to head off a coronavirus outbreak in the United States. But many current and former Trump administration officials say the true management failure was Trump’s.

“It always ladders to the top,” said one person helping advise the administration’s response, who noted that Trump’s aides discouraged Azar from briefing the president about the coronavirus threat back in January. “Trump’s created an atmosphere where the judgment of his staff is that he shouldn’t need to know these things.”

[wellst0nev0ter]

108. ??? Italy has the second best healthcare in the world

According to this ranking.

https://www.treecycle.eu/en/2020/03/12/italy-is-the-4th-country-in-the-world-for-healthcare/

But the virality of the disease overwhelmed their resources. In fact, the long life expectancy in Italy probably contributed to the large number of critical cases.

The fact that people are being turned away HERE because they lack health insurance just makes the situation worse. What part of that don't you get?

[TomCADem]

112. So, Italy Has Single Payer, But Escalating Covid19 Deaths...

...so lets have single payer like Italy?

You are right. I don't get your logic.

Conversely, I think you would agree that Trump's incompetence and lies have significantly worsened the U.S. ability to respond to COVID-19. Therefore, efforts to undercut the Democratic nominee's efforts to replace Trump with someone competent will result in the deaths of folks like the teen you mention who not even got sick but for Trump being President.

The question is whether we will repeat that mistake?

[wellst0nev0ter]

148. Italy has a great healthcare system

But lousy preparedness.

South Korea has both an excellent healthcare system and good preparedness.

The U.S. both a lousy healthcare system and lousy preparedness.

You do the math.

[emmaverybo]

134. Italy like other state systems has a shortage of nurses and doctors. ACA ruled that children under

25 would be covered. There are different means by which young adults could be covered in current
and future systems without M4All and no guarantee M4All will not have personnel shortages, result in rural hospital closures, or not suffer cutbacks and glitches that could result in needless deaths.

[questionseverything]

138. aca allows children to stay on their parents policy until they are 26

if your parents are uninsured or not in the picture that doesn't help

[emmaverybo]

142. No.It doesn't. Much needs fixing. More regulation private insurance. Restore ACA and Lower premiums

Put everyone on the higher tier plan. Low cost public option. Hospitals with sliding cost clinics. Expand Medicaid. That’s until we have universal.

[questionseverything]

143. fixing it from every angle works for me but in the long run

the most cost effective way to cover everyone is single payer

[emmaverybo]

157. Agree. Will take time.

[mcar]

121. Italy has the 2ND best hc system in the world

according to what I've read. I'm sure there will be a lot of studying about this when this crisis is over.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. M4A might or might not have made a difference.

People are dying in countries all over the world that have some version of M4A.

[jimfields33]

4. I know. But numbers seem smaller in those countries

I changed my text to add some hope.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. Many other countries don't have leaders and governments that suck.

That's where the main difference lies. The UK has universal health care but they also have a PM who sucks and their numbers are currently 11 deaths per million population. Norway and Germany also have universal health care but they have governments that have taken action to try to control the outbreak by closing the borders and enforcing quarantines with stiff fines, and they have had only 4 deaths per million population.

[George II]

3. That's not why he died. Sadly hundreds of people have died and they DID have Medicare. In fact....

...your article doesn't even mention Medicare at all.

[wellst0nev0ter]

149. And by some people's logic here

Because Medicare didn't prevent deaths, we shouldn't have Medicare.

[Blue_true]

160. No.

The poster was responding to the central claim made that MFA would have prevented the death. People with Medicare and good insurance are dying. Also, the kid went into cardiac arrest on the way to the hospital, there is no certainty that the same would not have happened at the critical care facility, most of which have pretty skeletor staffs.

[bluedye33139]

5. If he had presented at an emergency room, he would have received care

Expanded Medicaid also would have covered him if he lived in my state. I am unfamiliar with California's Medicaid system and eligibility requirements, but in my state we have gotten the uninsured rate down to 5% and hospital social workers are very well trained in Washington State in signing people up for Medicaid. Medicaid in Washington State will also pay old medical bills when you become eligible.

Policy issues aside, this is a heartbreaking tragedy.

[wellst0nev0ter]

8. Will an emergency room take you in if you're coughing?

Think. He was finally taken to the emergency room when it was too late.

[bluedye33139]

14. EMTALA governs emergency rooms and forbids refusal of service

with inability to pay or where insurance is not present.

I am thinking about this. The end of the mandate meant that many people declined to get coverage, and without the individual mandate, there are going to be many individuals who present at for-profit urgent cares without insurance and get turned away.

This is a terrible tragedy, and the watering down of the ACA over the past few years has had horrific results.

[George II]

32. An emergency would have treated him. In fact, patients are being treated in emergency rooms....

...and medical facilities all over the country and NONE of them have "medicare for all". So the premise of your OP is incorrect.

[wellst0nev0ter]

39. Yes, let's strain our emergency rooms even more!

Jesus, this is such a bad-faith debate.

[George II]

49. No it isn't. It isn't even a "debate", it's pointing out the fallacy of your OP subject line.

[AtheistCrusader]

33. Clearly the solution was for him to sit in the ER lobby coughing until he coded.

[George II]

50. Have you ever worked in an Emergency Room? What you say wouldn't have happened.

[AtheistCrusader]

56. (It was sarcasm.)

[bluedye33139]

68. The options were an urgent care that required insurance or an ER

There was no option to will universal coverage into existence.

Going to an urgent care that required insurance and being turned away resulted in a delay that cost this young man his life.

My point is that in our current system, emergency rooms do not turn people away for lack of insurance.

[questionseverything]

140. all the emergency room has to do by law is stabilize, right?

healthcare shouldn't be so complicated

[yellowdogintexas]

69. he may have waited too long to go, although from what I am reading, this stuff escalates

very rapidly from what looks like a bronchitis on xray to what looks like the lung is full of fluid (which in fact it is) I saw a clip of xrays taken over a 3 day period in China and the first one showed plenty of gray around the white areas, the 2nd day the white had increased and the third day both lungs were completely white.

If you can get there, it is always better to go to a hospital ER because they won't make you pay up front if you are uninsured like walk in offices will.

[Butterflylady]

88. He was 17, a minor

Where were his parents? Usually, as far as I know a 17 year old is under a parent's ins. If they have insurance. I wouldn't let anyone of my kids go to a hospital alone when they were 17.

[George II]

120. Yes they will, ERs don't discriminate whatsoever. You need to spend some time researching this stuff

[Blue_true]

162. With an agenda to push, research falls by the wayside. nt

[mcar]

122. Of course it would

It's the law. You didn't know that?

[Blue_true]

161. Your post seems to completely trash your claim.

"Would an emergency room take him in if he was coughing?" Yet, the point you seemed to have made in the OP was the critical care facility turned him away knowing that he was sick, but if he had insurance, they would have treated him.

You appear to be pushing an agenda and don't care about how inconsistent some of your posts are.

[William769]

21. It is a heartbreaking tragedy being used in a most despicable political way.

But then again that's all the other side has.

I really don't care who flames me for what I just said. The truth hurts, deal with it.

A side note I was not going to be on DU today to take a break. I walk into this shit. This is a primary forum don't try to make anything but what it is.

[bluedye33139]

29. I admire the enthusiasm of M4A supporters

I don't admire their arguments. I don't believe that putting everyone on Medicare would be a good idea. I believe that Medicaid is a much more supple and already existing program, and I believe that expanded Medicaid will hit the target of insuring poor and working class families.

The problem with the ACA is that it throws an unfair burden upon middle class Americans, and this has to be addressed as soon as we can. But I don't believe in throwing away the ACA.

[Turin_C3PO]

41. Medicaid for All

would be much better than Medicare for All. I’m on Medicaid and love it.

[questionseverything]

141. what state are you in?

in Illinois Medicaid has all kinds of co pays for specialists and meds that are not covered

and you literally cant have any property, not even a car worth more than 2 grand

[Turin_C3PO]

144. New Mexico.

I should clarify. I’m on SSDI with Medicare for a primary coverage and Medicaid as secondary. I pay nothing for anything. I’m very lucky.

[questionseverything]

146. yes thats way dif than just medicaid

maybe some day the rest of us can get that kind of care

[questionseverything]

139. i dont think at 17 he could apply for his own medicaid?

in Illinois Medicaid comes far from covering everything but of course it is better than nothing

[samnsara]

6. we cant say he died because of no MFA.....

[NurseJackie]

7. Oh, FFS. Stop it. That is false.

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. What part of "turned away because of no insurance" do you not understand?

[George II]

19. You said "because of no Medicare for All", not "no insurance"!

[showblue22]

26. The reason for no insurance could be failure to apply for medicaid

Or failure to go to a hospital sooner and not a private owned urgent care.

[Kerrycrat]

27. What part of "what are you doing at an urgent care"

Do you not understand?

You don’t go to an urgent care when you’re at death’s door

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Yes, people always know precisely how far away death's door is.

No one ever gets medically evaluated to find out, with a modicum of professional experience.

[Kerrycrat]

52. He had a heart attack on his way to the next stop

He must have been pretty damn sick.

I’ll grant you he probably didn’t know he was about to die.

But if they suspected he had Covid they would have sent him to the hospital anyway.

My local urgent care has a sign on the door not to even come in if the person suspects they have Covid.

There is literally very little an urgent care can do for someone that sick.

Really just disputing that he died for lack of insurance. Or even because urgent care didn’t evaluate him.

[AtheistCrusader]

57. I will certainly conceed that he may have died regardless.

We can't test it, and we can't restore from backup and try it again.
I do think we can do better though, and M4A is certainly one way to accomplish it.

[Kerrycrat]

62. Fair enough

Agreed

[TwilightZone]

28. "turned away because of no insurance"

You didn't say that, as you well know.

[FBaggins]

159. Posts can be false in many ways

The story does not back up the claim.

He presented at a facility that can’t handle what he suffered from... so he would be sent to the ER even with a universal coverage system.

And a 17 year old dying of a heart attack doesn’t fit a “died of Covid” assumption. He may have tested positive, but he almost certainly died of something else.

[DURHAM D]

9. Drivel nt

[Hoyt]

11. Very sad; however, I'm not sure why this teen wasn't at least covered by California Medicaid.

[wellst0nev0ter]

13. These are the people who fall through the cracks

under Biden's plan.

[Hoyt]

16. Not really. California expanded Medicaid under ACA. And even before, they covered almost any kid of

parents who weren't covered otherwise.

[wellst0nev0ter]

25. Then why was he turned away?

[Hoyt]

45. It could be that the Urgent Care center told them he needed to go straight to ER. They don't

handle respiratory distress, heart attacks, stroke, unconsciousness, etc.

That's my guess. The other guess is that the parents didn't have him covered for some reason, which would be a mistake.

California covers kids. I'm not really arguing against MFA, just saying something is wrong here.

I like MFA if an electable candidate is pushing it in a political environment where it has a chance of enactment. That is not the case here. Biden's plan of a Public Option -- with enhanced subsidies -- will get us to MFA much faster than the candidate I am assuming you support.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. Read the story first

[Hoyt]

53. I read the story and several updates since that story. Urgent Care centers aren't going to take a

kid close to cardiac arrest.

Call up an Urgent Care Center near you and say I have insurance and am having pain like a heart attack, and see what they say.

They mostly handle colds, flu, UTIs, small wounds, bug bites, etc. Someone that sick is going to be directed to an ER immediately.

[showblue22]

60. Most Urgent care facilities are privately owned

They're not there for anything major at all. Basically, they're just a place to go for an ear infection and the like...

[Blue_true]

166. Exactly. nt

[Blue_true]

165. Good point, anyone who has gone to urgent care would know

what you pointed out.

[George II]

48. The person at the front door certainly didn't say "You don't have m4a, you can't come in!!!"....

....but that's what you're claiming in your subject line.

[wellst0nev0ter]

150. He didn't have insurance

Which would not be an issue if we had medicare for all.

Why must you engage in this patently bad faith exchange?

[George II]

178. He didn't have Medicaid, Blue Cross, etc. Remember, "medicare for all" isn't available to ANYONE!

My part of the exchange isn't bad faith. I'm not claiming that something that doesn't exist and won't for years, if ever, is the reason this young man passed away.

[showblue22]

17. 10 million of 350 million people

Bernie's plan will never come to fruition so Biden's plan helps a lot of people and Bernie's helps ZERO.

[wellst0nev0ter]

24. "10 million people are expendable"

[showblue22]

30. Bernie's plan helps ZERO people.

It would never come to fruition even if he did win the primary. He is not capable of forming the coalition needed to pass anything.

[AtheistCrusader]

40. When do you stop saying 'coalition' as if you and people like you are inclusive of the

pool of people that could form said coalition?

[showblue22]

55. I don't know what you mean.

Bernie doesn't like to call people to ask them to get on board with his legislation.. Calling, asking for input or ideas, creating something a broad group of legislators will be happy to vote for... These are basic things needed to get things passed. He doesn't have the skills to do that. I don't think he even likes to give people credit for their own ideas. Bernie's med4all has ZERO chance of passing. Biden's plan therefore helps more people.

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. The same repukes would deny Biden's plan too

Last edited Fri Mar 27, 2020, 07:40 PM - Edit history (1)

So really, why bother?

[Thekaspervote]

92. So Why bother having posted this? You've come full circle..so just stop it! It's not helpful

[Hav]

38. No, they aren't expendable

Stop with this incendiary shit. But we have to start somewhere. BS can promise and claim whatever he wants, it won't matter when there is no chance to get it through Congress. How hard is that to understand? A plan that might not be perfect but helps millions more in comparison to the current state, is still immense progress. And it doesn't have to be the end.
BS likes to (falsely) compare his ideas with other countries.I suggest his supporters do that as well in more detail instead of just believing whatever he's saying. In any system, for any social program, there will always be some who fall through the cracks. You have to work on that in increments.

[George II]

36. Not true. He qualified for the ACA, and Biden's plan would expand on the ACA. Please stop....

...misrepresenting what went on here and attribute it to something that isn't true.

[wellst0nev0ter]

61. "Access" versus "Actual Coverage"

We've been through this movie before. Some people sign up for ACA, others fail to sign up for some reason or another (for example, because they're undocumented immigrants).

In any case, this kid, through no fault of his own, died because he lacked insurance. And this was under Obamacare.

[Blue_true]

163. BS.

Biden's plan expands the income cap. So if the kid's family made too much money for a subsidy, Biden's plan would include them. If the kid's family was poor and citizens, they could either get ACA subsidies or Medicaid.

You are hopelessly pushing an agenda and ignoring people that are pointing out the fallacies in your arguments.

[showblue22]

15. Why is the source of the article hidden?

I don't click on just any link.

[Kerrycrat]

35. Here's a government link to info

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/phcommon/public/media/mediapubhpdetail.cfm?prid=2280

[pnwmom]

18. Could you please provide a link to where Biden's own healthcare plan

says it will deny insurance to up to 10 million people?

And what he said about Italy in the debate was perfectly true. They do have an excellent nationalized system, but that wasn't a solution to the huge surge in illness caused by coronavirus, as Bernie implied Medicare for all would be. No system could easily withstand a surge like we are undergoing.

[Kerrycrat]

20. The urgent care in my city...

aren't even accepting suspected COVID people. That’s not what an urgent care facility is for. They’re not equipped. They’ll tell you where to go. Give you a phone number. In some cases I’ve seen them xall an ambulance

They would send the person to a hospital.

If he was that close to death I’m not sure what they could have done for him there. They wouldn’t have had a ventilator.

So I think it’s stretching the facts to say that he died because they wouldn’t help him.

[wellst0nev0ter]

76. Then tell the Mayor he's lying

Operative quote: "We've learned that once you go into respiratory issues, you have trouble breathing, you're short of breath, and you have a fever, that is the time to get medical treatment without delay."

Kind of hard to follow that advice when medical centers turn you away because of no insurance.

[Kerrycrat]

100. He's not lying

You’re misunderstanding

You go to an emergency room, not urgent care. Urgent care isn’t equipped.

All medical centers are not the same. You’re not going to your family doctor if you’re that sick for instance

[mcar]

123. Quick care centers are not equipped to deal with what is described here

Operative quote: "We've learned that once you go into respiratory issues, you have trouble breathing, you're short of breath, and you have a fever, that is the time to get medical treatment without delay."

That's an ER situation, not a quick care situation. Call any quick care center and listen to their message. I bet it says something like, "if you are experiencing shortness of breath," call 911.

[wellst0nev0ter]

99. Just saw a news program where a COVID patient

got check out at urgent care. So once again, this claim is fatuous.

[Kerrycrat]

102. Whatever

I know what my local urgent care is doing. They don’t even want you to come in.

The only way it would work the way you say is if the person walked in not knowing they’re sick with Covid. Then they’d be evaluated and then sent to the emergency room, not treated

So even if you get in, if you’re that sick they can’t help you.

[emmaverybo]

34. Many cases do not get treated at an urgent care.

Urgent care is for much more minor conditions and unlike EMS do not stabilize in the field. They do not usually even keep bp meds on hand. They do not do a full work up. They do distinguish between emergency and non-emergencies. Much of the time their instruction is either go to the ER or see your PCP.

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. I believe the kid's condition was minor back then

But because he didn't get the proper diagnosis, he's dead.

[emmaverybo]

54. England's ER's are often closed and when open often over run. That is without corona

virus. If we’d had a state system, i5 would have been severely compromised already with
cuts this admin. would have made.

[sheshe2]

80. Yet,

Your article states that his father was diagnosed with Corona. Therefore he was exposed and should have been under self quarantine.

Also the text you quote is not in the link you posted. It is stated that it is from a utube vid. I would like a direct link to the text of the video you seem to be quoting from. I don't do videos, to hard to hear. Way to many facts missing.

[wellst0nev0ter]

85. Now I doubt if his condition was minor

and if he was turned away, that is even more egregious.

[Blue_true]

167. So, he still could have gone to the ER after urgent care.

Your OP make it seem like urgent care turned him away, he got into the car and had cardiac arrest. Yet your current post makes it seem like he went to urgent care, got turned away and sometime later (maybe days later) he tried to go to the ER but went into ca on the way.

[wellst0nev0ter]

168. He went to a nearby urgent care clinic

Despite his condition, UC turned him away because he had no insurance, told him to go to an emergency room further away.

On his way, he went into cardiac arrest.

Does that clear things up for you?

[Blue_true]

181. Your post that I responded to implied differently on the timing,

but you seem to have moved the goalpost several times as you replied to other posters, so I will use my witnessing that as my guiding light.

[wellst0nev0ter]

182. Glad to see any perceived inconsistencies

takes precedence over the fact someone was denied healthcare due to lack of insurance.

[Blue_true]

184. IMO, your inconsistencies are happening because you are pushing an agenda, facts be damned.

Several people have explained to you that critical care shops don't handle severe medical conditions. But you just blasted right through that to cling to your claim that the kid died because of refusal by the critical care to treat him due to him having no insurance.

[wellst0nev0ter]

188. The original report stated that the kid was denied care

specifically because he did not have insurance. This isn't complicated.

[Blue_true]

190. What is it you don't get after being told repeatedly that storefront

critical care places can't handle a case like his? The only thing they can do is direct him to an emergency room if he was standing and walking, or provide CPR and call an ambulance if he wasn't.

[wellst0nev0ter]

192. And I already told you many urgent care places do accept patients

This one did not in this case, specifically because the family did not have insurance, and it did take days between the initial refusal and his death:

The family told Parris the teen was complaining of respiratory distress when he first went to an HMO facility, but officials there declined to treat him. The family does not have health insurance. A few days later, the boy was taken to Antelope Valley Regional Medical Center, he said.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-25/a-search-for-answers-in-teens-death-that-may-be-linked-to-coronavirus

In the interest of full disclosure, and to prevent further cases of bad-faith confusion, Officials have not confirmed that the teen died specifically of Covid, even though test indicated that he was positive. They are running more tests.

In any case, I agree with the Mayor:

"When a kid comes in respiratory distress, stabilize him and call ambulance, don't ask for insurance," Parris fumed.

[Blue_true]

194. I will let you post stand on it's own. People just need to read it to see

how you have clearly mischaracterized the sequence of events leading up to the kid's death.

[wellst0nev0ter]

197. I didn't mischaracterize it. I was right.

Read my previous post.

[Blue_true]

200. The article says there were several days between his visit to urgent care

and his death on his way to an emergency room. There are a number of legitimate reasons why critical care would turn him away, other than lack of insurance, in fact those places normally allow a person to pay with cash or a debit card, I used them when I was uninsured once after the failure of my first business, in Florida a visit was less than $100, I don't know about California. Any person who could not afford a critical care rate should have been on Medicaid anyway, critical care places basically treat most uninsured medical cases inexpensively compared to other options. At any rate, the article rather clearly states that his parents had time to take him to an emergency room.

[wellst0nev0ter]

201. I don't know why you are so invested in explaining away this tragedy

But this discussion is over. Take care.

[Blue_true]

202. Fact matter. You are pushing an agenda that facts don't support. nt

[gibraltar72]

43. Hippocratic oath

First get the Benjamins.

[Thekaspervote]

58. This is not a truthful post! He was obviously too sick to be treated at an urgent care

Sending patients out of an urgent care being told to go to an ER is standard practice. Urgent care is for the walking wounded not the critically ill!!

Er physicians cannot refuse to treat someone critically ill!

Yet you turn this around and try say this is on Biden...bull

[sheshe2]

63. Agreed.

It is just politicizing a crisis. This is not the time and place for that and disrespects the dead and dying.

[wellst0nev0ter]

101. "You have a single-payer system in Italy--it doesn't work there"

That's Biden.

[sheshe2]

107. What are those countries BS mentions all the time?

Seems they are not doing well either. Lot's of people dying.

[wellst0nev0ter]

109. Yes, having hospitals is not enough for this disease

As you can obviously see. Early action, widespread testing, and cooperation by the public are also needed.

The disaster in Europe is mostly due to lack of preparation, not the deficiencies in their health care system. No system in the world has enough ICU beds on standby to deal with this pandemic. If they did, you and your type would accuse them of being wasteful and inefficient.

But you can't test people if they are too afraid of coming to the hospital and paying out of pocket expenses, can you?

[sheshe2]

113. Me and "my type"?

No system in the world has enough ICU beds on standby to deal with this pandemic. If they did, you and your type would accuse them of being wasteful and inefficient.

Me and my "type". WTH is that suppose to mean? You have no clue who I am. My "type".

I am appalled by your attack on me. I have loved ones on the front lines.

How dare you.

[betsuni]

145. Oh no! We've been uncovered as the wealthy elites we are.

I'm sipping champagne and nibbling caviar canapes in my oceanside mansion right now. Want to come over? My chauffeur can pick you up -- or you can just hop in your helicopter.

[sheshe2]

147. I will be there!

I will hop right on my private jet. I would prefer you have me picked up by your chauffeur as I would like to sip my Champaign and nibble on a canape or two with a dab of Grey Poupon.

Loves ya my dear.

[Hortensis]

172. We're Dem(d) Republicans. Sanders has been

saying we're really just the same for years, after all. "Anyway, the Democrats do it too." As automatic as if the string was being pulled daily on an old talking doll.

Well, it's Sanders and Trump who do it too. Anxiety breeds aggressively hostile populist disorder, and here two jumped-up populist leaders are to harness it for personal advantage, scrabbling for the same potential supporters who all despise, one guess: liberal Democrats! Trump built his little career and big following of eager Kool-Aid gulpers on lies about us, and Sanders built a long, achievement-less career and small, belated following the same way.

That poster is quite right that liberals are a type, but the post above and the OP both suggest that he has no more idea of what that actually is than Sanders or Trump do. And not coincidentally.

[George II]

117. So you can't say who those countries are that Sanders is always speaking of, can you? And...

...your final thought is totally false, I have yet to hear of anyone being too afraid to go to the hospital to get tested, no one.

HOSPITALS ARE NOT ASSESSING OUT OF POCKET EXPENSES, they never do, they never did, and they're just not doing it!!!!

Have you ever worked in a hospital or an emergency room? I have, I worked in an emergency room in Manhattan for a few years - we NEVER turned anyone away because they couldn't pay, and we never charged ANYONE for an out of pocket expense prior to being admitted and treated.

It was treatment first, then we worried about getting paid.

[sheshe2]

119. Again I ask you to explain your comment.

What "type" am I?

[George II]

124. ...

[sheshe2]

129. Thank you.

[mcar]

125. "You and your type?"

Do tell. Please. WTF are you talking about?

What is sheshe2's "type?" I expect it's my "type" too, but I'd like you to say.

[sheshe2]

130. No answer.

I am not the enemy.

Thanks mcar.

[mcar]

132. We are Democrats, she

We care about people. This poster should watch Biden at his CNN town hall earlier tonight and then come back and tell us about our "type."

[sheshe2]

133. I watched.

I love our type.

Hug.

[George II]

135. Note to all: It's going to be rerun at midnight tonight for anyone who missed it or cares.

[mcar]

137. Thanks George!

[NCProgressive]

131. DUers have types?

I'm B Rh+ by the way

[wellst0nev0ter]

151. Yes, there are different types of Democrats

Some want M4A, others want to bury it.

Hoocoodanode?

[NCProgressive]

152. "Types" is a divisive term

a better term would be "schools of thought"

[wellst0nev0ter]

169. No, people will still be offended

Unless the rest of us fall in line with their thinking.

[Eliot Rosewater]

180. I have a question, if Bernie was elected prez this November, and if he is the nominee

I will work my ass off to accomplish that (i.e. I support Bernie or Joe, GO GO GO), unless Rump has already killed me, how long do you think it will be for M4A to be law?

[wellst0nev0ter]

183. Honestly, probably a while

Certainly not right away, not with the current political environment. But remember change does not often happen overnight, and it's not helpful if fellow democrats are automatically declare it dead in the water because of trumpanzee ratfucks.

[Eliot Rosewater]

185. By a while almost certainly not in his lifetime. I am a FAR left democratic socialist...

I want to nationalize:

Healthcare
Pharmaceutical
Hospitals
Education including college
Access to the internet and cell service (cant survive in these times without it)
All energy, oil/gas, electricity (power plants) etc.

Now in the case of Pharmaceutical it cant be entirely nationalized, it would have to be something that functions from a profit position to encourage the creation of new drugs. But the rest of them there is no need for that.

Now, these are even to the left of Bernie and far as I know most of his supporters.

How many of these could happen in 4 years? none

So instead my focus is on not dying because the guy in the WH now does want me and you, if you are a liberal, dead.

Priorities...

[wellst0nev0ter]

186. I don't embrace defeatism

And that is the type of quality that I see too often in mainstream democrats: the willingness to compromise their values with those who have no values.

Not saying I don't support Biden, but I still chafe at how he was/is the ringleader subverting the movement for radical change to the status quo.

The disease has demonstrated that the status quo is broken, and old articles of faith were easily cast aside to prevent an economic and societal collapse. I wish those steps were taken years ago.

[Eliot Rosewater]

187. Status quo? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr

The status quo WAS Obama and he and Hillary would have prevented 90% of this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

189. The status quo made people pay for their COVID tests and care

tens of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-covid-19-treatment-testing-costs-2020-3

Maybe this will not be an issue after we implement Medicare for All Who Want Coronavirus.

[Eliot Rosewater]

191. Because of ACA the "status quo" is FAR better than what once was.

This debate NOW makes zero sense.

I only responded because I truly fear some of his supporters WONT vote in November if he is not the nominee.

And more of us WILL DIE if rump somehow stays in power.

[wellst0nev0ter]

193. Making people pay for their covid testing and treatment makes zero sense

That is what the status quo does, or did before the spending bills.

Saying there was a worse baseline offers little comfort to the afflicted. The fear of Trump should not override the pursuit of what is right.

[Eliot Rosewater]

195. What is more important right now

Doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to get Rump out or M4A?

Do you believe rump is killing us?

[wellst0nev0ter]

196. I can walk and chew gum at the same time

This shouldn't be an either/or choice.

[Eliot Rosewater]

198. That is MADNESS what you just said, I GIVE UP, I QUIT

And you didnt say whether you agreed with me that rump is killing us, that tells me mountains of info.


GOOD BYE

[wellst0nev0ter]

199. That trump is killing us is a given fact

What I am saying is that we should not lose sight of our values while getting trump out of office.

[IronLionZion]

59. Insurance or not, urgent care is not equipped to treat COVID-19

Even if we had Medicare for all and all else being the same, urgent care still won't be able to treat him. That's just how it works.

ER is the place for emergencies in the American system. They will stabilize him and then transfer to the ICU to save his life. It's not the best way to do it, but that's how it is. Fixing the ER vs urgent care confusion is a separate problem. The ACA actually helped increase the number of urgent care centers all over America to ease the burden on ERs for non-emergencies.

Where having M4A or another universal health insurance plan would save this teen is the ability to call his doctor or the call center of his hospital and ask them where to go. For privileged people like me, my HMO, company, and doctor's office all sent out clear instructions on what to do if we or a loved one is showing COVID-19 symptoms, and that is call them to triage it and they'll admit us into the hospital through an organized process that protects their workers from catching it. I want everyone to have this type of care and opportunity. A public option can help do it.

[Kerrycrat]

66. That was my point too.

I was at urgent care once for a cut that needed stitches.

I ended up waiting quite a while because they had a guy who had shown up for a bee sting and was having a bad reaction. He shouldn’t have been there. They called an ambulance to transport him. Took a bit.

There indeed needs to be better education and understanding of the difference.

[IronLionZion]

67. Agreed, this is a problem of misinformation

the lack of insurance is a separate problem that needs to be addressed separately from the urgent vs emergency common misunderstanding.

[wellst0nev0ter]

153. Here's an account where a person WITH insurance

was able to go to urgent care and get tests. Enough with the malarkey.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/sunday-review/coronavirus-hospitalized.html

[IronLionZion]

177. "My primary doctor urged my wife to take me to the E.R., which she did."

Here's what urgent care did in your link

My wife took me to an urgent care clinic, where I received a chest X-ray and confirmation that I had pneumonia. They swabbed me for the coronavirus but their lab was overwhelmed, and they didn’t know when they would receive any results. I’ve still not heard from them.

ER helped him and admitted him to the hospital.

The next day, my temperature spiked to 103.5 degrees. We called the E.R., and they told us to come back. That night I was admitted to Northern Dutchess Hospital in Rhinebeck, N.Y.

Enough with the malarkey. Don't spread dangerous misinformation just because you want M4A. We don't need people with COVID symptoms going to the wrong place.

[wellst0nev0ter]

103. Just watch this segment on Nightly News where a COVID patient

got accepted and checked out at an urgent care center. So once again, these claims are malarkey.

[IronLionZion]

110. Good luck with that

[sheshe2]

114. Link?

[George II]

118. Different Urgent Care facilities have different policies. And those policies have changed....

...in recent weeks.

[mcar]

128. He's also talking about something that happened once

according to his reporting. So there.

[Jedi Guy]

170. Not all urgent care centers are created equal.

Some have diagnostic equipment like X-ray and ECG machines, some don't. But even for the ones who do, they may not be equipped to manage any bone fracture or major heart issue. They can get a preliminary diagnosis, but patients in those conditions will get sent to an ER.

For urgent care centers which don't have that type of diagnostic equipment, all they can really do is try to keep the patient stable long enough to get them to an ER for proper care. This young man should have gone directly to the ER. That said, I can somewhat understand his thinking. Given what's going on, ERs nationwide are swamped. He probably thought he'd get faster care through an urgent care center. Sadly, that turned out to be a bad call.

[beastie boy]

64. When did "health insurance" and "Medicare for all" become synonimous?

Your header is patently ridiculous, and exploiting the death of even one person to score a political point is shameful. Please consider deleting your post.

[sheshe2]

115. +1000

[sheshe2]

164. Bernie?????????????

Hm

[relayerbob]

65. I can't imagine anything worse than M4A at this moment in history ....

where our ENTIRE medical care establishment would be under the complete control of Trump.

If there's ever been a better argument against "Medicare for all" I can't think of what it is.

[Thekaspervote]

70. +1,000,000

[wellst0nev0ter]

71. Specious argument

That's like saying Medicare, period, is under control of Trump. Katie bar the door!

Argue better.

[sheshe2]

116. It is.

Trump and the GOP.

They want to gut/cut it all and they can.

[tirebiter]

75. I'm betting there's more story to be told.

If you don't have health insurance, paying for care can seem overwhelming. If you need care, it is important that you get medical care before you get worse. ... In a medical emergency, go to a hospital emergency room. They will not deny care or treatment.

[SWBTATTReg]

83. He died because of the republican health plan. Get sick and die. They are the ones wanting ...

to cancel what we have now (ACA) and not even replace it. They still refuse to enhance any of the 'pitfalls' or 'negative issues' w/ the ACA that they have, and have not come up w/ anything. They keep hammering away too at little things of the ACA too. The blame is not a new plan not even in place, but the one we have today (the ACA), that has been hobbled in little ways by the republicans.

[blueinredohio]

84. If he was 17 he's still on his parents policy.

If they had insurance.

[wellst0nev0ter]

97. That "if" is doing a lot of work there

[blueinredohio]

111. Just sayin how did they know for sure?

[Demsrule86]

87. Biden did not say that...he said a public option with subsidies will lead to universal coverage...

Medicare for all won't pass congress. So you do what you can.

[wellst0nev0ter]

98. And neither will the public option

If the repukes have their way, so let's just give up on everything.

[grantcart]

90. Conflating Universal Care, single payer and MFA, and you wonder why people

Don't listen to this drivel?

[wellst0nev0ter]

154. Seriously, what?

Not conflating universal care (ideal Obamacare) with single payer (M4A). Let's not muck up the discussion with malarkey.

[Indykatie]

93. Why Didn't This 17 Year Old Kid Have Insurance under CHIP Which is Free OR Obamacare Expansion

CA also has a very comprehensive Covered California program with higher income limits for free insurance.

[wellst0nev0ter]

96. Obamacare doesn't cover undocumented immigrants

[oasis]

94. Build on what we have. A reach for the moon will slide us to ZERO.

How many will be at risk then?

[wellst0nev0ter]

104. Public option is also a moonshot for repukes

Should we give up?

[oasis]

126. We can stand pat until we're better positioned. nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

155. Better keep the powder dry

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2020, 02:13 AM - Edit history (1)

Like we have for the past three or four decades.

[Turin_C3PO]

127. The difference is

that if we win the Senate, all Dems will vote for a public option. If we tried to get single payer, probably a third of Dems would vote against it. That’s the unfortunate reality.

[wellst0nev0ter]

156. And who are responsible for voting those Dems in?

Who is responsible giving oxygen to their opposition to single payer? Look at this thread.

[ucrdem]

95. That's about as craven as it gets.

Let the boy's family grieve and stop scoring cheap political points off their tragedy. Not to mention your claim is utterly bogus.

The only decent thing to do would be to delete this thing.

[wellst0nev0ter]

105. "You have a single-payer system in Italy--it doesn't work there"

That was Biden. You cheered for him.

[Tribetime]

106. If we want to be the greatest country in the world this cannot happen.

Whatever plan anybody wants to make it better but this cannot happen

[RandySF]

158. Gizmodo?

[wellst0nev0ter]

171. There's a video

You can watch it?

[Sunsky]

173. Dem voters are practical and not magical thinkers

I would like to get to Medicare for all but, incrementally. I realize that change will not happen overnight. I cannot support someone who talks a big talk but has little to show for it. We have to learn to work with the system we have and build on it, not burn the whole system down and end up with nothing.

All these posts about MFA are useless. We don't have it and we likely won't for many years to come, even with a president Sanders. #Reality.

Also misrepresenting what Biden said doesn't bode well for your argument. The debate question was about COVID-19 and only about COVID-19. Sanders did his usual one issue pivot to MFA and Biden rightfully pointed out that Italy has a single payer system and yet there healthcare system has been overwhelmed by COVID-19 (600, 700, 800... of deaths per day because of a stressed healthcare system). Therefore, MFA is not the be all end all solution for this pandemic. He did not say Italy's single payer system doesn't work (period).

[ck4829]

174. "World's Greatest Healthcare System" unavailable for comment

[Jose Garcia]

179. Horseshit!

Urgent care clinics don't treat life-threatening conditions. They would have sent an insured patient to the ER as well.