To those who STILL support Sanders: as I have previously posted, I agree with much

[Atticus]

of what Bernie advocates. I simply don't believe he can deliver on his aspirations or, for that matter, get elected. I have tried to be respectful of your primary support for your chosen candidate and, for the most part, have chosen to say positive things about Joe rather than negative things about Bernie or you. But, that ends now---for me and for many.

Bernie is no longer trying to defeat Trump. He is trying to be sure that what he terms the "Democratic establishment" does not defeat Trump. And, let's call that what it is: narcissistic bullshit. "If I can't win the White House, no Democrat should!"

The Democratic party has coalesced behind a decent, experienced and competent person: Joe Biden. If you continue your rabid insistence that Bernie must be our candidate, at least be honest: slap "Trump 2020" stickers over those "Feel the Bern!" stickers on your bumpers and stop pretending to be Democrats.

[showblue22]

1. Amen.

If I can't have the nomination, democrats should lose...

[Bucky]

24. It's unpersuasive when your arguments against Bernie depend on saying things he never said

As for me Bernie's number one problem has always been his problematic, slash and burn, anti-liberal supporters.

Yours is the second post I've seen this morning buy a Biden supporter using the same problematic language.

You are perfectly demonstrating the adage "Choose your enemies carefully, for you will become them". It sullies your own liberality to be afraid of a debate and to pretend that a rival within the Democratic Party running on classically liberal Democratic ideas is out to make the Democrats lose.

He's not. He's going to support Biden. He's said so numerous times. You have nothing to fear but fear itself. And that fear is impairing your judgment.

[mikelgb]

35. Well said. Thanks.

[Ferrets are Cool]

40. Why wait then?

To convince three more people that "his way" is the right way? I used to support Bernie. I no longer do because what he is doing NOW is not helping America get that lunatic out of the WH.

[The Magistrate]

49. You Get No Cigar For That, Sir

Those "problematic, slash and burn, anti-liberal supporters" reflect their leader like a mirror, and without them, 'Bernie' is nothing. He has rallied them up, and directs them against the 'Democratic Establishment', which he has sought to overthrow for decades. Do not make the attempt to claim that in 2016 'Bernie' did anything of value to assist Mrs. Clinton's campaign against the cheap thug Trump. He did not, he never gave her a full-throated endorsement, he never apologized for slanderous charges he and his supporters had leveled, and he made only perfunctory statements of support in speeches that were mostly just restatements of how much support he had received in the primary, and how his policies were the future of the Party. His occasional claims he will support Mr. Biden will, if put to the test, produce no better an outcome, no less tepid an effort. If 'Bernie' actually was willing to support Mr. Biden, he would be making a speech to that effect today, instead of filing for the New Jersey primary ballot.

The fact is, 'Bernie' is not campaigning for the Presidential nomination of the Democratic Party. 'Bernie' is campaigning to overthrow the 'Democratic Establishment' which he is convinced is the chief obstacle to enactment of liberal and progressive policies in our country. He is probably sincere in his belief overthrowing the 'Democratic Establishment' is a necessary precondition to effective opposition to the likes of the cheap thug Trump and McConnell, but he is mistaken as the Weimar-era Communists who thought breaking the Social Democrat party was the necessary first step in opposing the reactionary and nationalist right in Germany. Their view was that when that was done, the working class would turn to the radical left for leadership, there being nothing else left they could look to for it. 'Bernie' holds a view quite similar to that, that if he can overthrow the 'Democratic Establishment' the working class of our country will turn to him as their beacon of leadership, which they would be doing already if not for the evil machinations of the 'Democratic Establishment' opposing him. But, as 'Bernie' said coming out of Nevada, he is coming for them, and they cannot stop him. He has made his true goal obvious enough, by his statements and his actions, and people owe 'Bernie' the courtesy of believing him.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[KitSileya]

63. That is a chilling analogy,

All the more chilling because of how true it rings.

[The Magistrate]

67. The Comitern Slogan At The Time, Ma'am

Was 'Hitler is the ice-breaker of the revolution'. The idea was that with the Social Democrat Party destroyed, Hitler would come to power, and oppressed workers would turn to the Communist Party and rise in revolution. To this end on many occasions in the final few elections, 'Red Guards' and ' Stormtroopers' joined in breaking up S.D.P. rallies (though when security police intervened, it was generally Communists rather than Nazis were arrested). The predicted revolution, of course did not come off, in large part because oppression was well-targeted and ruthless. German Communists died hard deaths, and not many survived Hitler's 'Enabling Decree' by more than a few months, if unable or unwilling to flee the country immediately. Though the most spectacular such instance, this idea is often recurred to among radicals on the left, who seem undiscouraged by the fact it has never worked out in any major country.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[KitSileya]

70. How very Susan Sarandonesque of them.

She of the, "Trump will bring on the revolution" with a gleeful smile on her face. Well, tell that to all the people who will die because of the deliberate botching of the COVID-19 response - as well as those already dead in Puerto Rico, in ICE raids and ICE camps, and let's not forget the Kurds.

[The Magistrate]

71. Exactly, Ma'am

If I were to state openly my view of how the ICE Gestapo ought to be dealt with, I would risk expulsion from the forum.

[showblue22]

62. I'm not trying to persuade anyone.

The days of giving Bernie the benefit of doubt in regard to his motives are over for me. The writing is on the wall. It's evident in how he talks about democrats, who he hires to represent him, his desire to stay in a race he can't win despite the imminent threat of Trump, his penchant for negative campaigning, etc...

[Aquaria]

72. We're not afraid of debate

We’re tired of hearing the same boring spiel from BS.

He doesn’t debate the issues. He bludgeons everything into his narrow views about economic justice (as he deems it—never mind anyone else’s idea of it), screeching about identity politics (how dare we women and minorities speak up about issues that matter to us rather than letting old white dudes tell us what can matter to us when), bashing everyone who doesn’t agree with him as “establishment” or worse, and bellowing paranoid conspiracy theories about everyone being out to get him.

Thanks, but that schlock got old in 2016, without having to choke it down a second time.

[radius777]

116. Sanders is no liberal, neither is his base

whose views clearly are not in line with classic Dem (whether to the left or center) beliefs.

Their views are alt-left views - a fusion of anarchists, libertarians, socialists, communists - that ultimately despise the Dem party and its voters.

"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat." - Bernie Sanders

What Bernie Sanders has said about the Democrats over the years - PolitiFact

[The Magistrate]

122. It Is Only Courteous, Sir, To Take A Man At His Word

"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[radius777]

124. Of course. "When someone shows you who they are,

believe them the first time." - Maya Angelou

[notinkansas]

2. Whoa!

This is still the primary we're talking about. There are two candidates with very different perspectives on what this country needs. Nobody should be trying to bully anybody else into just accepting their personal viewpoint. Accept that people are entitled to make their own decisions as to the direction they would like to see the country take.

The general election is a different story. The Democratic nominee gets the votes regardless of who that is.

Peace, OK?

[Atticus]

4. I stand by every damn word in my OP. If you want "peace", stop slashing and burning. nt

[notinkansas]

11. Huh?

Slashing and burning? What's that about?

[The Magistrate]

17. The Question Inevitable Arises, Sir

Are you really such a stupid person as that, or do you just play such a stupid person on internet forums?





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Lonestarblue]

36. Agree.

If Bernie still had mathematical viability, then I would support another debate. But he doesn’t, and we all know what each candidate stands for. We have heard from them repeatedly. And regardless of who is on the debate stage, the purpose is primarily for one candidate to make the other candidate look bad, just as Kamala Harris and Julian Castro did early on. That is simply doing nothing but weakening the eventual nominee at this stage and handing campaign fodder to the Trump team.

If Biden were out of mathematical viability at this time, I would be calling for him to concede to Bernie and get behind his election, which I believe Biden would do.

What positive result is achieved by Bernie staying in the race until the convention, with his campaign having three more months to bash Biden?

By the way, I was a Warren supporter until she dropped out.

[Walleye]

5. The primary is over. Accept reality

[MythosMaster]

20. No it's not

FYI

[The Magistrate]

25. Of Course It Is, Sir

When a team has a won/lost percentage of around 350 and the team in first place has a won/lost percentage of around 650, and a lead in standings of a half dozen games, the season is over for the last place team. There may be some slim 'if I always roll a seven I might make a million' chance, but as a matter of fact, playing out the twenty games left will simply increase the lead of the first place team to a round dozen. It is over. The man has failed to win, he has been defeated, the Democratic Party does not want him for its nominee, and he will not be its nominee. His only purpose for continuing his futile campaign is to do damage to the 'Democratic Establishment', and thus weaken our hand against the cheap thug Trump in November, to the great detriment of the people and our country.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[MythosMaster]

28. That would be news to those

In states that have not voted yet

[The Magistrate]

32. Mere Whinging, Sir

Those votes will not affect the outcome. There is not going to be any particular change in their proportion between the candidates in future primaries. 'Bernie' will get about a third of the votes, Mr. Biden the rest. Mr. Biden's lead will only increase. States will of course hold primaries, to select the Party's candidates for Congress and for state and local offices, and of course with ballots printed already there will be still several names for President present. But the contest for the Presidential nomination is over, Sanders has lost it. He should recognize this and concede, so that without the slightest distraction the Party and the press can turn to the contest between Mr. Biden and the cheap thug Trump.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Walleye]

38. Bernie is refusing to face the facts. Not a presidential quality .

[Demsrule86]

39. Biden is up by over 300 delegates...Sanders can't overcome this lead in a proportional primary...

the next primary ends it. He would have to win 60% even now and he won't. What he does do is put us in danger of losing to Trump. I am putting all Sanders supporters on ignore at this points.

[LakeArenal]

104. That is such a good idea. Use the tools we have

I got dinged today for being positive that Joe will win the nomination and kick Trumps ass in November.

That positivity is “dangerous thinking” to that Sanders supporter.

Their continual buzz kill and negativity toward Joe is what’s dangerous. I was then called naive.

What a load.

[dawg day]

48. I live in a May primary state...

And we are quite accustomed to not mattering for the nominee. No one should drag the race out for some quixotic reason like "giving us a voice". Our primary is going to be postponed this year anyway.

It's literally life or death now for many more Americans will die if Trump is reelected. Continuing a campaign at this point will seem egotistical.

[KitSileya]

66. Yeah, as others have pointed out, what's the difference between the supporters of Sen. Sanders

and those of Senators Warren, Klobuchar, Harris, Booker, Gillibrand, Bennet, and Gravel, Representatives Gabbard, Swalwell, Moulton, Ryan, O'Rourke, and Delaney, Governors Bullock, Inslee, Patrick, and Hickenlooper, Mayors Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Messam, and de Blasio, Secretary Castro, Ms. Williamson, and Mr. Yang, and Mr. Steyer, all of whom at one time or another announced their candidatures?

The only difference I can see is in the temper tantrum both the candidate and the supporters are throwing at not being selected. The other candidates and their supporters are behaving like adults, and what's more important, putting the country ahead of themselves.

[seta1950]

78. Exactly

We can’t survive another 4 years of what is happening now, literally.

[Aquaria]

74. No more of news than it is

to those who once supported Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar or any of the other candidates who dropped out, long ago when they knew they were done.

Why do BSers think they merit special treatment in the remaining states that supporters of those other failed candidates don’t? That’s what none of you BSers or BS-enablers never address.

Everyone else with a nominee with no path forward has had to pull up their big kid pants and move on, but the BS apologists think that somehow they’re the exception to that.

They’re not. They’re only contemptible for thinking they’re owed something they didn’t earn.

[whopis01]

57. Where do you get your 350 vs 650 numbers.

From what I see it is actually at 43% for Sanders vs 57% for Biden.

[The Magistrate]

61. Treat Each Primary As A Baseball Game, Sir

That should give you the necessary understanding. The figures selected are roughly proportionate to the won/loss records of the candidates in primaries to date. Sanders in these contests generally has received roughly a third of the vote, which was good enough in a crowded field for some wins, but now gives his cause no hope of success. Given the proportional allocation of delegates in our Party primary, Sanders would need to sweep remaining contests by margins of three to two or better to deny Mr. Biden a first ballot nomination, even without consideration of whether retired candidates give their delegates leave to 'vote their conscience' on the first ballot. The thing has reached a point where it evokes the limbless Black Knight of the old Pythons....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[whopis01]

85. But it is not a baseball game.

Many people wish to treat politics like a team sport, but by doing so they miss very important underlying points.

Unlike the general election with the electoral college, the Democratic Primary is not a "winner-take-all" approach to each individual state.

Candidates are allocated delegates on a mix of proportion and position.

The reality is that, as it currently stands, Sanders has roughly 43% of the delegates and Biden has 57%.

[The Magistrate]

91. Let Me Try Again, Sir, Very Slowly

Each primary is an individual contest.

It can therefore be considered as analogous to any other set of sequential contests. A baseball season is a familiar and useful tool for presenting how sequential contests rank out between contenders.

Mr. Biden has won the great preponderance of these individual contests. Where Sanders has led, the field has generally been crowded, so that he achieved a plurality with a decided minority share of the total vote. In head to head contests with Mr. Biden, Sanders has not increased his share of the votes, but has continued to collect the same share of roughly a third he did in a crowded field.

There is no reason at all to suspect Sanders will receive any greater share in future contests. Since our Party allocates delegates proportionally, Sanders, with a smaller share of the vote will receive fewer delegates than Mr. Biden, as the outcome of future contests.

Whatever the proportion of delegates might be today, the gap will only increase to Mr. Biden's favor. A count of 57% to 43% is landslide level rejection, and in a system allocating delegates proportionately, cannot honestly be expected to offer the candidate on the short end of those figures any prospect of overtaking the leader. Especially when the candidate on the short end of those numbers is consistently getting fewer votes than the leader.

There is no point to playing out the string, and 'Bernie' may do real harm to the prospects of defeating the cheap thug Trump and McConnell by doing so. Especially if he continues in the style of campaigning he typically employs, with emphasis on attacking not Republicans but the 'Democratic Establishment'. There is nothing "Bernie' can do that will rally a great preponderance of Democratic primary voters to his cause in contest with Mr. Biden. The man is widely detested among the people who consistently vote in Democratic primaries, and the great increase observed in primary participation this year is not going to 'Bernie' but to Mr. Biden. You are free, of course, to disregard clear and obvious facts of the situation, but that will not change them.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[whopis01]

99. You can be as slow as you need to be.

It will not make you correct.

The Democratic Primary is not determined by who wins a majority of the contests. It is determined by who wins the required number of delegates. And those delegates are not allotted in a winner take all fashion, as if it were a game of baseball.

I see you are now trying to turn the argument in a different direction. I had only asked about the percentages that you were putting out there. I never suggested that Sanders would "receive any greater share in future contests". I also never suggested that there was any point to "playing out the string".

Your attempt to make it appear as if I was, and suggesting that I may "disregard clear and obvious facts of the situation" is a weak attempt at best. You are merely substituting a different argument and declaring yourself the winner.

To be clear, so that you may understand fully, I never said that Sanders was likely to a greater percentage of delegates in future contests. Nor did I say that there was any doubt that Biden would be the Democratic nomination. Nor have I said that Sanders should stay in the race. Furthermore I am not disjointed by any of those fact, never having been a supporter of Sanders. Biden, in my opinion, is a far better choice of a candidate.

Feel free to have the last word.

[The Magistrate]

102. I Do Appreciate The Laugh, Sir

Aggressive misunderstanding, combined with an attempt to teach me to suck eggs, and an open admission of the pointlessness of the position you support, that makes for a rare treat. I do hope in some future exchange you can manage to top it, but I don't really expect you to manage it. Still, one lives in hope....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[LovingA2andMI]

45. Yes...It Is....

The Math says just so. Accept it.

[MythosMaster]

139. Show me your math

Without personal attacks.

[LovingA2andMI]

142. Go Fetch.....

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/10/799979293/how-many-delegates-do-the-2020-presidential-democratic-candidates-have

[MythosMaster]

145. I asked for your math

Not a link. But it sure shows a lot more voting still has yet to happen.

[LovingA2andMI]

146. The link has the math...

Again, go fetch....

[MythosMaster]

147. Fumbled in your own endzone

And your spiking the ball?

[LovingA2andMI]

148. So Don't Have Time to Play This Game..

People are DYING. Look at the link or find something else to play with. We're DONE!.

[grantcart]

60. The fact that you don't understand the math of proportional allocation

Of delegates in the primary process just confirms the suspicion that you don't understand the math Of Sanders $ 47 Trillion give away.

Bernie hasn't just lost, he has lost by landslide proportions.

In this process you get some delegates for showing upvnut you net delegates by the margin of victory.

Bernie hasn't just lost almost all of the primaries his victories are modest compared to Biden's. Sander's biggest primary win was in the tiny state of Vermont where he won with 50 % of the vote, Biden has a dozen states (none of them his home state) where he won by larger percentages.

If you subtract out the following Bernie has lost virtually every contest

1) Home state
2) caucuses
3) states that had early voting with a 5+ candidate spread but where Sanders lost the primary same day vote.

This is why 538 gives him less than a 1% chance of winning and the betting markets give Cuomo a higher chance than Sanders.

Math, I know it's hard.

[NurseJackie]

6. Oh, FFS! Stop it. Nobody is doing that.

Nobody should be trying to bully anybody else into just accepting their personal viewpoint.

Oh, FFS! Stop it. Nobody is doing that.

This is still the primary we're talking about.

The primary is over. We have our nominee. The voters have spoken in sufficient numbers. There's no need to waste any more time pretending that it's still unknown or that Bernie "has a chance". He doesn't.

Accept that people are entitled to make their own decisions as to the direction they would like to see the country take.

Accept that we have our nominee. This contest is over. Joe Biden is the winner. Bernie Sanders is the loser. Everyone knows it.

No more debates. No more smearing of the Democratic party. No more slash-and-burn. No more scorched-earth. No more kneecapping our nominee. No more accusations of rape. No more accusations of senility. No more accusations of being "corrupt".

Bernie isn't trying to win the nomination. He's trying to take down the Democratic party.

Peace, OK?

Bernie first. It's his move to make. Does he withdraw and endorse? Or does he continue to smear and denigrate and divide? Does he continue to create distrust and resentment?

As long as he's attacking, you can count on loyal and stalwart Democrats like me and many others to continue to push back and call-out what's really going on. We won't remain silent while the attacks continue. We won't go away because we're called "haters". What we are, is fiercely loyal to the Democratic party and 100% dedicated to defeating Trump.

[Atticus]

8. Thanks. nt

[notinkansas]

12. Trying to take down the Democratic party?

That's ridiculous.

And EVERYBODY is dedicated to defeating Trump.

[The Magistrate]

19. 'Bernie' Most Definitely Is Not, Sir

'Bernie' is campaigning to overthrow the 'Democratic Establishment', which he sees as the chief obstacle to liberal and progressive measures today. The man has said it often enough he is due the courtesy of being believed. Defeating Trump is for 'Bernie' but a secondary goal, and one he is certain cannot be achieved in any case unless the 'Democratic Establishment' is overthrown first.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[notinkansas]

43. Sir! Are you also saying

that the progressive caucus of the Democratic party should not exist? Or just Bernie?

[The Magistrate]

54. You Know Perfectly Well What I Am Saying, Sir

Perhaps if you read through v-e-r-y slowly you may twig it the second time around....

'Bernie' is campaigning to overthrow the 'Democratic Establishment', which he sees as the chief obstacle to liberal and progressive measures today. The man has said it often enough he is due the courtesy of being believed. Defeating Trump is for 'Bernie' but a secondary goal, and one he is certain cannot be achieved in any case unless the 'Democratic Establishment' is overthrown first.

If you can find anything whatever in that comment concerning the Progressive Caucus of Democrats in Congress, please point it out.

You cannot even find in it a statement 'Bernie' should cease to exist. My view is plain enough, and you will be aware what it is --- Sanders should concede the contest to Mr. Biden, so that the campaign against the cheap thug Trump may proceed with full force, and without distraction.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Aquaria]

79. The problem is that

BS is NOT a Democrat.

So what was your point there?

I don’t support anyone who pretends to be Democratic to get access to the party’s considerable resources like professional campaign staff, polling data, donor lists and so on, simply to serve his own interests.

Let me know when BS commits to being a Democrat, full-time, rather than when it’s convenient for him and his ambitions, then we can talk.

Until then, he’s no Progressive Democrat, only a self-serving mountebank.

[NurseJackie]

22. No other candidate campaigns against the Democratic party, just Bernie.

That's ridiculous.

No, it's not ridiculous.

And EVERYBODY is dedicated to defeating Trump.

How does it help the Democratic party (and our party's nominee) for anyone to make (or defend) DISHONEST accusations that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt".

Exactly how is it supposed to "dedication to defeating Trump" for someone to falsely claim that Democrats are "feeble" and "corrupt"? What good purpose does it serve to proclaim that the Democratic party is an "absolute failure"?

Wouldn't you agree that it's "ridiculous" for someone to say that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent" and "party of the elite". Please explain to me what someone's motivation would be to say "there's no difference between Democrats and Republicans" if they weren't trying to take-down and weaken the Democratic party?

Fact of the matter is this... it's WRONG and it's DISHONEST to say that Democrats are "do-nothings"... and to say that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change."

It's also WRONG and DISHONEST to say that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity and that because the Democrats "are very big into diversity" therefore we aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class.

What good purpose does it serve to promote this kind of dishonesty? It's divisive. It weakens us by creating resentment and suspicion. It makes new voters less willing to support Democrats if they're continually being told that "their vote doesn't matter" and that "the election is rigged" and that "both sides are the same anyway".

He hired some really deplorable people to be the faces of his campaign. He has made it clear that he considers the Democratic party to be an "enemy" that conspires against him. And in doing so, he's denigrating not only our party, but also our party's leadership, which includes some of our best and honorable politicians.

The rhetoric coming from him and from his campaign has a toxic and erosive effect. He deliberately plays that dangerous game and is fully aware that campaigning like this will turn his supporters away from the Democratic Party if he doesn't win the nomination.

No other Democrat behaves like this and it creates frustration and anger among Democrats because we've been through this before. It contributed to getting Trump elected and despite all that, BS doesn't care about it and still plays the same game.

All I'm trying to say is that it serves NO GOOD PURPOSE for his quixotic game to continue. It's divisive and it harms the party, it weakens the party. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

[seta1950]

86. We have to fight on 2 fronts

Which weakens us , the bs people want to get rid of Nancy Pelosi too😤

[William769]

13. ...

[seta1950]

84. Well said

I have a feeling bs is going to do exactly as in 2016 never really concede or endorse and keep attacking.

[NCProgressive]

15. If Bernie wants to state how he is better that is fine

But when Bernie and his supporters, with or without plausible deniability, create false memes like "Biden has dementia" or "Biden is a rapist", don't expect people to be nice. You also have no room to implore people to be nice to you.

I have not seen a single Bernie supporter here condemn those fake attacks. Not a one.

The OP is absolutely correct.

[mcar]

31. This is shameful

I have not seen a single Bernie supporter here condemn those fake attacks. Not a one.

Bernie's supporters are quick to claim they or their candidate are being bullying and attacked but have failed to condemn these really awful likes by some of his staffers and supporters?

[George II]

26. There is only one candidate who will win the nomination, and 99% of Democrats know this.

Nobody's bullying anyone, but it's time to face reality and be practical.

Sanders will not get the nomination. In fact he will not win a single one of the remaining primaries. Most will be blowouts.

So why this insistence that we keep marking time and not move on?

[redstatebluegirl]

3. Yes!

[justhanginon]

7. Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

[mtngirl47]

9. We all agree with much of what Bernie advocates, but...

I refuse to let Trump have another 4 years to wreck this country and the world.

I don't understand why so many DUers have not changed their decision to Joe Biden. He wasn't my first choice, but for crying out loud let's get on board with Biden.

I'll be surprised if we have more primaries. Our county convention is going to be on Zoom....what about the Democratic convention?

[samnsara]

10. hes sucking all the oxygen out of the room when we need it the most!

..whats wrong with that man???

[notinkansas]

14. By 'sucking all the oxygen out of the room'

do you mean that his message is resonating with too many people?

[NCProgressive]

16. His message has been soundly rejected

from coast to coast and North to South.

He has no chance to win any of the remaining states.

He should go back to the senate to resume naming post offices.

[Bucky]

27. Actually, no. People rejected Bernie, not his ideas.

People loved his ideas. That's why Biden moved closer to Bernie's ideas to close the deal for the nomination. That's one reason why I love by Biden: he's intellectually flexible.

[NCProgressive]

34. That is an entirely false narrative created by Bernie

Biden only moved closer to Sen. Warren's ideas -- not Bernie's.

[The Magistrate]

58. To Be Kind, Sir, That Overstates The Case Considerably

The flaw in it is the unstated premise that many ideas popular among Democratic Party primary voters are somehow the exclusive property of 'Bernie', and originated with him. They are not, and did not. Expanding health insurance, increasing the minimum wage, and a variety of other things, are longstanding goals not only of Democratic Party primary voters, but of most Democratic office-holders and officials as well. To state rejecting 'Bernie' is rejecting or opposing these goals, or betraying them, even, is ludicrous. The conclusion of the great preponderance of Democratic primary voters is that 'Bernie' is too flawed as a politician to have a hope of translating his words into enacted law, and too flawed as a candidate, with his Marxist background, to have any chance of success in a nationwide general election.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[LakeArenal]

106. Gawd you fight the good fight.

Your stamina is amazing.

[uponit7771]

152. +1

[Aquaria]

83. His ideas are nothing new to this party

Or unique. Only the most politically ignorant fail to grasp this fact.

[ehrnst]

18. "Too many" people that "his message is resonating with" aren't inspired enough to vote for him.

Maybe that's because most of "his" message is actually something Democrats have been advocating for decades, and others who have displayed many, many more of the skills needed for POTUS have been running...

[The Magistrate]

21. Try Not To Strain Your Shoulder Patting Tourself On The Back, Sir

Since 'Bernie' has no chance whatever of securing the nomination, any attention paid him and his campaign by the talking heads of the news programs, and devoted to him the commentary of the online and paper press, is attention well above what his futile efforts deserve. Yet so long as he will not stand down, the media, ever eager for conflict and a horse-race, and under an absurd delusion of what constitutes 'balanced' coverage, will provide "Bernie' disproportionate coverage, and delay covering the election campaign as what it actually is --- Mr. Biden versus the cheap thug Trump.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[OnDoutside]

47. The best would be to ignore him, but I would be concerned at the lengths the Sanders campaign

would go to, to "insert" themselves into the media narrative, and since the Covid19 story is sucking up the media oxygen, they may well become more desperate and frankly, nastier.

[The Magistrate]

55. I Agree, Sir

As they say, past performance is the best predictor of future beehavior, and the man has form....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[OnDoutside]

119. It sure is, and to borrow from Rachel Maddow, "watch what they do, not what they say" and the

biggest tell for me is that immediately after Arizona/Florida/Illinois losses, Sanders announced he was to stop spending on Facebook ads, but he is still continuing to accept campaign donations. That says an awful lot of what this is about. Instead, his campaign are going for cheap hits and fundraising off of it.

[The Magistrate]

121. Unfortunately, Sir

The thing does take on, from certain angles, the appearance of someone grifting like a common Palin....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[OnDoutside]

130. True enough, it's increasingly difficult to avoid that conclusion.

[George II]

52. No, his message hasn't resonated with many people at all. In fact it's resonating with LESS people..

...than it has in the past.

Just for example, even in his home state of Vermont:

2016 about 134,000 people voted in the primary, 116,000 voted for Sanders
2020 about 157,000 people voted in the primary, 80,000 voted for Sanders

Turnout was up 17%, 38% less voted for him this year than before.

Next door in New Hampshire:

2016 about 250,000 people voted in the primary, 152,000 voted for Sanders
2020 about 288,000 people voted in the primary, 76,000 voted for Sanders

Turnout was UP by 15%, half as many voted for Sanders.

Again, this year turnout was higher, his vote total was much lower

This is a clear indication of how Democrats feel about him. He's not "resonating".

[Aquaria]

82. Please

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2020, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

He’s sucking the oxygen out of the room with his self-serving screeching for attention at all costs, and with his raving lunatic lies about Democrats and the Democratic Party. Instead of getting behind Biden to defeat the evil squatting in the WH, we’re having to tell the grandpa from the back bench of the Senate to go home, he’s drunk and stinks to the high heavens.

[NJCher]

29. stop telling me who to support

also your "I agree with much of what Bernie advocates" smacks of manipulation.

[Atticus]

33. I assume you actually believe that makes sense. That makes one. nt

[NJCher]

81. stop ascribing motive

Here's where you did it:

Bernie is no longer trying to defeat Trump. He is trying to be sure that what he terms the "Democratic establishment" does not defeat Trump. And, let's call that what it is: narcissistic bullshit. "If I can't win the White House, no Democrat should!"

Go read up on attribution theory. A Wikipedia article on it might be something you can understand.

I am sorry you're having reading comprehension problems.

[LakeArenal]

105. I vote narcissistic bullshit.

Oh not a poll. Oops.

[NJCher]

128. not even mildly amusing

not to mention it doesn't address the topic in any way other than to throw a slur around.

College freshmen know about this. Do you?

[LakeArenal]

131. Oh you Sanders people have such thin skin.

Currently calling Joe a rapist.

[NJCher]

133. what's that got to do with anything?

Stereotype much?

[LakeArenal]

134. Your argument is with whoever brought up

Narcissistic bullshit. I’m just agreeing with that person. So go take your google eyes emoji and see if it works on that person. Which you might have done and got nowhere there either.
You don’t like Joe. You like Sanders Valuable time and money will now be spent on Sanders losing campaign.
That’s on you guys.

[ReformedGOPer]

30. Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.

Bernie did this in 2016. He campaigned against Hillary almost right up to the convention. Hillary acquiesced and even held a night to honor Bernie's contribution. But many of Bernie's supporters didn't vote for Hillary. Now I'm realizing that many of Bernie supporters don't actually go out to vote .

Fool me once, shame on you......but not this year, Bernie supporters. I won't get fooled again.

[seta1950]

87. Yes

Yes exactly

[The Magistrate]

107. And Those Who Do Study History, Sir

Are often condemned to waving their hands and shouting 'Don't do that again!' at uncomprehending throngs.....

[The Magistrate]

153. And There Is History Behind This Worth Study, Sir

The 'further left' traditionally take as their chief enemy parties and political figures of the center left, rather than parties and figures of the right. This is because a strong center-left party balks any possibility of revolution. It will have the allegiance of most working people, because it will bring them real benefits in their lives, and by doing so, will shut off influence of the 'further left' by making it clear measures well short of the desperate expedients the 'further left' prescribes for improving the lot of working people are not necessary.

Because center-left parties do uphold the present order of society, the 'further left' sees them as obstacles to its desires quite as much as any reactionary party on the right. Thus you have the 'not a dime's worth of difference' line that views our two major parties as interchangeable. Since the 'further left' cannot comprehend how working people could possibly form an honest attachment to rightist parties, their view comes to be that center-left parties are their chief obstacle to mass support from working people, and they imagine that if center-left parties are broken, they will inherit the mass support of working people, and thus become predominant. Then it will be the time to deal with the reactionary right, but until it is the 'further left' which has undisputed leadership of working people, the reactionary right cannot be dealt with properly.

Properly, here, indicating a policy guided by the slogan quite popular in the radical salad days of the seventies: 'What's the solution? Revolution!' Few nowadays on the 'further left' dream of an actual, barricades and snipers and car-bombs sort of armed revolution, but they do envision a complete overthrow of existing economic and social arrangements. One of the things they fail to understand about working people, and people on the lower rungs of the economic scale generally, is that people who have not much but do have a little are extremely reluctant to put the little they have at risk, and they know that in turmoil and tumult that little will be at risk. There are strains of the 'further left' which do have some understanding of this, and their view is that working people must be made to lose that little they have now, and lose it to the unmitigated predation of the reactionary right. Only then, when they have nothing to lose, will working people be ready for revolution under the banner of the 'further left'. This provides such people still another reason to oppose and demolish center left parties, as these do mitigate the suffering the right would impose on working people, and so are the chief force in balking revolution. These elements view an initial triumph of the reactionary right as an essential step in their own program to achieve revolution, and so are actually quite pleased by the reactionary right achieving political success at the expense of center-left parties.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Mickju]

37. I couldn't agree more!

[Walleye]

41. Ego trip

[OnDoutside]

42. To be fair, this really isn't about the Sanders supporters. This is about Sanders refusing to do the

decent thing and step aside, now that he has no chance of a pathway. He knows he has no chance of a pathway.

He doesn't care about Trump being re-elected.

He doesn't care about the Democratic Party, he has made that more than clear.

He doesn't care about the expanding divide between SOME Sanders supporters and Biden supporters.

He employs people who amplify the fake Biden allegation.

He doesn't care about creating a shitfest at the Democratic Convention.

If he did care, he would move to suspend immediately, but now we know he has filed for the NJ primary.

The majority of Sanders supporters WILL vote for Nominee, the rest will do as they did in 2016.

[McKim]

44. I Just Want health Care for All

I just want Universal Health Care for All like they have in Europe. It is painfully clear now that we need it. That’s why I still support Sanders for the primary. When Biden is elected I want him to know how many people will hold his feet to the fire to make it happen.

[dawg day]

53. It might not happen in one fell swoop

Even if Sanders were elected, he wouldn't be able to get it enacted. Some of us think a more incremental process is more likely to end up in success. Two terms.. one expanding ACA in all ways, the next term moving to a real NHS.
If Clinton had been inaugurated, I think we'd be halfway there now.
Calling for something ain't getting it. Idealists like Sanders are important for setting the goal, but getting there usually requires a pragmatist.

[seta1950]

89. Yes

Exactly, I remember Hillary working on universal healthcare when she was First Lady

[LakeArenal]

108. I remember Nancy Pelosi advocating for universal health.

We all want it. Times change. Nancy sees the need to build on what we have.

The damage Dump & cohorts have done to democracy makes just about everything President Biden wants will take time and dedication. Nothing great for months. Maybe years.

[Hekate]

76. We have Europeans & American ex-pats who post at DU. I hate to tell you this, but no country....

....actually has Bernie-Care. Not the way he has made his followers believe the story.

They DO have health care availability that is orders of magnitude better than ours. But it still costs, and it is not simple.

Meanwhile, the sulky promise to hold a Dem president's feet to the fire is all too reminiscent of the nastiness toward Obama at DU. Why doesn't it occur to such people to hold the feet of the GOP to the fire? The GOP is trying to destroy the country and murder us all.

[The Magistrate]

110. Good Points, Ma'am, And Good Questions

"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[seta1950]

88. That's fine

But how many ‘establishment democrats’ do you think will work with bs even if he were to win,as he keeps trashing them. Think about it .

[Aquaria]

90. Guess what?

The Democratic Party has been working toward that goal since fricking Harry Truman. Just what the hell do you think LBJ was trying to get us when he did all that fricking heavy lifting to get Medicaid and Medicare passed? Both of those programs came to be because he had a greater goal of building on them until everyone was covered under a single payer plan.

Did BS miss how Teddy Kennedy spent nearly all of the 70s and his 1980 presidential campaign promoting his national health insurance plan—one that had DETAILS and planning behind it?

What do you think Hillary was up to with that health care panel she headed right after Bill got sworn in? What do you think CHIP was under Clinton but yet another expansion, to fill in yet another gap?

What do you think the ACA is striving for, besides a bridge to the universal option?

None of us needed BS to “move the conversation” about it, when we’d been having it long before he latched onto the issue. The least he could have done was come up with a detailed plan for his hare-brained idea, rather than coughing up only an empty slogan for it—and one guaranteed to turn off the majority of Medicare recipients who know how costly it is to use it.

If the issue mattered so much to BS, he would have gotten off his ass long ago and come up with workable legislation to get what he preaches put into practice. Funny how he has plenty of time to run his mouth, but none to do the hard work of crafting legislation and then busting his hump to get it passed. That would require working with others, and giving something to get something and sometimes having to compromise or settle for a smaller goal to get something bigger later.

But, given how he has nothing but talk to show for anything, he must deem that as either too much effort or beneath him, somehow. It’s all or nothing with him. So he has only nothing to show for all his high-falutin’ “ideas” of what to do with healthcare—or anything else in his puny economic justice ideology.

And he really think that his attitude if all or nothing, my way or the highway, somebody else do the hard work I want done makes him presidential material?

It is to laugh.

[Hekate]

111. Many facts presented in your post. Thank you.

[betsuni]

120. Thank you!

[Demsrule86]

140. Since you didn't support him...what difference does it make...and I want a unicorn...but it won't

happen... the point is we build on what we have ...public option, costs controls and subsidies...and we will end up with universal coverage...most European countries have a hybrid system...not a government system. I see little point in following models that are failing in this crisis...we can do better than M4A.

[azureblue]

46. to those who buy into this Bernie Vs Joe crap

It's all over the net right now. It's just bots trying to stir up $hit. Ignore it - It's all about Trump literally killing Americans right now. That's what we do first - get him out of the White House NOW! Don't wait for the election.

[Frances]

51. I really hope it's bots trying to divide us

Because I think we should keep our eyes focused on Trump

[comradebillyboy]

94. It's not just bots and Russian trolls by a long shot.

Look at the twitter threads of Sirota, Gray and Turner. Most of those red rose posters are not bots and Russian trolls.

[Demsrule86]

141. A dose of reality...the only way to remove him is by winning the election...and Sanders endangers

this effort as it has a dire affect on fundraising both for Biden and for down ballot...Sanders should be ashamed as he is helping Trump and hurting our efforts to take Trump out.

[PubliusEnigma]

50. The friend of our enemy is our enemy.

[Rebl2]

56. For many of

the things Bernie has wanted to do like free college and free health care for all simply won’t be feasible now. All the money being spent and that will be spent on COVID 19 will make it nearly impossible to do the things he had planned.

[Aquaria]

92. Dreamed

Not planned.

You know who had plans for, say healthcare?

LBJ

Teddy Kennedy

Bill and Hillary Clinton

Barack Obama

Elizabeth Warren

Where was BS’ “plan?” I saw a slogan, and not much else.

[Mopar151]

59. To an extent, Bernie is a victim of his own campaign.

Much like John McCain, his second campaign for the presidency drew in the wrong sort of "activist". And, in a similar fashion, it was undertaken as "payback" for previously falling short, or "taking one for the team".

[hell674]

64. Just a thought

"I have tried to be respectful of your primary support for your chosen candidate and, for the most part, have chosen to say positive things about Joe rather than negative things about Bernie or you."

I have been a DFL'er since Humphrey and McCarthy. Don't tell me who is pretending to be a Democrat and who is an authentic Democrat. Let the process play out and encourage debate. The party will be far better off in the end.

[Aquaria]

93. The process is as done for BS

As it was for Buttigieg, Warren, Klobuchar and more.

You don’t see their supporters lying that their vote was being taken away.

And BS doesn’t debate. He scolds, and us repetitive about it.

We’ve heard what he has to say, and we’re not impressed. Or we’re bored to death of his broken record.

[hell674]

136. who exactly

who is this "we" you speak of?

[Rilgin]

65. Does this look anything like trying to get Republicans elected? Link provided

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2020, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

No Bernie is not trying to get Trump elected in any form. This is Bernie on the recent bailout bill. Rational news reports note that Bernie's approach seemed to help bring Rand Paul and 3 other Republican Senators back to the table to actually sign this bill. More credit to the House where democrats actually have power. However, Bernie like other Democratic senators helped fight back against republican over reaches in the bills.

That is the problem with being guided by hatred. People here make things up which can charge up someone who wants to stay positive. Democrats like Bernie in the broad world. Bernie is representative of an important part of the Democratic Party who want faster change than other people in the Democratic party. This election may or may not mean that this part of the Democratic party is not the majority. However, it is both a part of the democratic party and of substantial size. The people here want to write this part of the democratic party and people who believe we need fast and immediate change on climate change and the economy out of the democratic party and on this site constantly refer to democrats who like Sanders as "cultists".

You seem to be saying you have tried to refrain from bashing. I support your statement that you have tried to be positive in this 2020 campaign. I would urge you to continue that policy rather then in your words "this ends now". It is a better policy to not pretend that Bernie and other democrats are the enemy and trying to elect Trump rather than democrats who believe in faster change on issues like climate and the economy than other people and often disagree on the direction of that change. Even with the collation that coalesced around Joe, there are substantial differences in policy which seemingly in this current situation with a maniac in the white house is not deemed a determinant issue. The is a reasonable position of some that beating Trump is everything but the fact that Joe won is also being used to assert that true democrats don't like Bernie which is a totally offensive proposition to long standing democrats who like both.

Please go back to your earlier policy and stay positive rather than negative. All polls and trends look like Joe Biden will beat Trump because Trump is finally being exposed as having no clothes. So be happy. Link below.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-passionate-speech-on-senate-floor/

[Aquaria]

95. You really believe that BS

Had anything to do with passage of that bill?

He saved nothing. Four senators weren’t going to affect a bill that had 92 other senators ready to vote for it.

[Rilgin]

100. Ignore the tenor of a post, nitpick and pick a fight

This was addressed to an OP who implies Bernie is trying to get Trump elected.

You know Bernie is in the Senate. No democrat has any real power in the Senate. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this. Bernie is not in leadership in the Senate. Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate and he has no power.. Democrats control the house where the negotiations really occur. BUT YOU KNOW ALL THIS.

You ignore the point of my post which was addressed to the OP on the OP point. The OP implies or says Bernie wants to get Trump elected. All you want to do is negative bashing posts. Good luck for you and may you find peace in your life.

[TexasTowelie]

112. I believe that it is necessary to correct you.

Bernie is not in leadership in the Senate.

Actually there was one member here that regularly reminded us that Bernie Sanders is Democratic Chairman of Committee Outreach which is a leadership position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Democratic_Chairman_of_Committee_Outreach

[Rilgin]

114. Ugh. The republicans control the Senate. Not the democrats

You know this. The republicans in the Senate (McConnell) crafted the bill with no Democrat consultation. Eventually, they negotiated with the House through Chuck Schumer. You know this or should. Its absolutely crystal clear I am talking about this bill on which Bernie did like tons of other Senators, spoke against republican provisions. Some on the senate floor, some in interviews. Some in round tables. No Democratic Senator including Democrats in general leadership roles in the Democratic side of the Senate have much power to do much otherwise. Nancy Pelosi, my representative, has power and negotiated with McConnell. Chuck Schumer has little actual power to effect results as was recently illustrated by the impeachment in the Senate. So you really do NOT have to correct me on a stupid point. Deal with the actual point. The OP says/implies Bernie wants Trump elected which was his main point. Turn your correction on that which is clearly wrong rather than nitpick my post for something that was neither my main point nor even a side point or even an implication.

[TexasTowelie]

117. You made a false claim that did not withstand scrutiny.

I corrected it.

At this point, I agree with the OP that Bernie wants Trump reelected. If Bernie doesn't want Trump reelected then he should withdraw from the remaining primaries.

[The Magistrate]

113. There Really Is Not Much Room To Doubt, Sir

That if 'Bernie' follows this year the same course he did in 2016, his efforts will have the effect of assisting the cheap thug Trump come November. Not is there much reason to suspect 'Bernie' will not do as he did then this year. Past performance, as they say, is the best predictor of future action.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Rilgin]

115. Going back to productive isolation with my family rather than get swarmed further on this thread (NT

[TexasTowelie]

118. .

[Atticus]

127. My OP does not really accuse Sanders of "wanting to get Trump elected". It pretty

clearly states that he wants to stop Biden from winning. I grant you that the end result may be the same, but I don't think Bernie really acknowledges that.

[Rilgin]

135. It is projection. Bernie does not want Trump to win.

He will support the Democratic Party candidate as will the great majority of his supporters. The swarm here points to 2016 where after a contested primary, some of the losing candidates voters in the primary did not vote for the winner of the primary. It has only been pointed out a thousand times that the percentage of Bernie voters not voting for Hillary is less than the historical drop out rate after a contested primary and less than Hillary primary voters not voting for Obaman.

Bernie has said over and over he will support the Democratic candidate. The clip I showed shows Bernie's belief in republican policies. Your post was pure projection.

However, I do not care about this trivialness. You expressed that you thought it was a good policy to stay positive. I urge you to return to this. I do not believe that some Bernie haters are reachable to find common courtesy. The fact that you say you have recognized the divisive nature of bashing other peoples candidates and likes is a bad thing. It is still a bad thing.

[Atticus]

138. You are minimizing the conduct of "some" of Bernie's 2016 supporters. They did not simply

Last edited Sat Mar 28, 2020, 11:11 PM - Edit history (1)

"not vote for" Hillary. They smeared her, heckled her and followed her into the convention where they BOOED her before a national TV audience.

And, yes it has been "pointed out" that the number of Bernie supporters not voting for Hillary was "less than the historical drop out rate" after a contested primary, but I don't recall seeing any numbers to verify that or what the source of the info is.

As for Sanders' "promise" to support the Democratic candidate, we've seen this movie before. We have his "support" of our 2016 nominee as an example of his true intent.

I am sure you intended your last paragraph to communicate something, but it either failed entirely or went way over my head.

[comradebillyboy]

96. Bernie's empty gesture to an empty Senate chamber. Sanders was

AWOL for all of the negotiations. He returns after the deal had been made to grandstand for the cameras. His actual contribution was zero.

[Rilgin]

101. Typical Bash. Avoid and nitpick

This was addressed to an OP who implies Bernie is trying to get Trump elected.

You know Bernie is in the Senate. No democrat has any real power in the Senate. You know this. I know this. Everyone knows this. Bernie is not in leadership in the Senate. Chuck Schumer is the minority leader in the Senate and he has no power.. Democrats control the house where the negotiations really occur. BUT YOU KNOW ALL THIS.

You ignore the point of my post which was addressed to the OP on the OP point. The OP says Bernie wants to elect republicans. All you want to do is negative bashing posts. Good luck for you and may you find peace in your life.

[ms liberty]

68. While we still have states yet to vote in rhe primary

The primary is effectively over for all intents and purposes. Joe has won and since it's not Liz Warren (whom I voted for in our primary) I'm as cool with Joe as the nominee as I would be anyone else. He's likeable, experienced and professional. He's been on my short list in every primary he's run in, and I was really glad Obama chose him as his veep. I wish he'd run in 16.
What is more to the point for me is the ugliness being displayed by some here at DU. This obsession is really damaging and disturbing, and yes, it is an obsession when the people who are most virulent in their dislike are rarely or never seen in threads that don't involve Bernie. He's far more irrelevant than the attention he's given here. Ignoring Bernie (which is what I've been doing) and moving on ahead to the fight against Comrade Dumbass of Orange is what we need to be doing as Democrats, IMO. It would be healthier for all of us and less hurtful to our members and fellow Dems who still support him in some way - which btw I do, as a Senator. I believe his voice and views are a valuable addition to our political discourse and we are better when we have more views represented than less. Particularly when they caucus with US and not the GOP. I'd love to ask, can't we all just get along? But alas, it seems that no, we cannot.
I'd say let it go but the last time I said that (about something else, I don't even remember what), some four year old two aisles over in the grocery store started singing, lol!

[Aquaria]

97. When he concedes

And stops bashing Democratic voters;

And stops pretending that he doesn’t condone his staff and other cutouts when they vomit vicious lies about Biden;

Then maybe people will be happy to ignore him.

Until then, plenty of us will not be standing by and doing nothing, saying nothing, against someone who seems hellbent on destroying our party, our candidate, and especially our voters if we don’t bend the knee to him.

I don’t bend my knee to anyone, and certainly not to someone who isn’t a Democrat. He and all of his enablers better get used to that idea.

[The Magistrate]

98. All The Man Has To Do, Ma'am, Is Concede His Defeat

When he ceases to contest the Democratic Party's nomination for President, there will be hardly a word spoken against him here, certainly not by me. At lest so long as he does not then continue to act in ways that will undermine the contest against that cheap thug Trump.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[kstewart33]

69. I'm wondering if Bernie hates the 'Democratic establishment' more than he hates Trump.

He's doing his cause no good by staying in the race.

[MarcA]

73. Let's use our Resources to Elect Biden and a Democratic Senate and House.

Also to support Joe's efforts in Being Presidential until he takes office in January 2021.

[Eliot Rosewater]

75. I know at least one person who said this part of your post years ago

Bernie is no longer trying to defeat Trump. He is trying to be sure that what he terms the "Democratic establishment" does not defeat Trump. And, let's call that what it is: narcissistic bullshit. "If I can't win the White House, no Democrat should!"

..........................

[blm]

77. People should say they agree with most of what Warren advocates, since most of Sanders'

economic policies they like were informed over the last few decades based in the years of painstaking research and analysis performed by Warren and other academics.

Reward hard work over rhetoric.

[The Magistrate]

80. Well Said, Ma'am

'Bernie' holds patents on nothing....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[muriel_volestrangler]

103. Calling people's politics "rabid" for supporting a candidate who is 2nd in the Democratic primary

and that they aren't Democrats, but really helping Trump, is counter-productive. And massively rude, though it's clear that the "counter-productive" bit is all you'd care about. Think again about your rhetoric.

[Atticus]

123. Turner and Sirota---and those who think they are swell people---are definitely "rabid" Sanders

supporters. Bernie hired them and refuses to separate from them. And, people who continue to ignore the extreme and scurrilous rhetoric coming from those two are in the same moral category as the mindless twits who nod and drool behind Trump at his rallies. I don't see how saying this is "counterproductive" as very few of these people are going to vote Democratic if Bernie is not the nominee no matter how "nice" we treat them.

And, as for being "massively rude", perhaps it is you who is being "massively sensitive". "Politics ain't beanbag!"

[muriel_volestrangler]

125. Your OP is aimed at DUers, not "Turner and Sirota"

You're writing on DU "to those that still support Sanders", not to some apparatchik.

It's counterproductive because you're insulting DUers. You're doing it to feel good. You're saying many DUers are not honest. If you can't see how that's counterproductive, then open a book. Pretty much any book, but one on sociology or psychology might work best.

No, it's not about me being sensitive. I'm not a Sanders supporter. But I do want the biggest possible Democratic turnout in November, and that matters far more than your feelings. Don't shit in your own nest.

[Atticus]

132. The only DUers who have cause to be insulted are those who---as the above post states---

"think Turner and Sirota are swell people".

As for my "doing it to feel good", quite the contrary: I am disgusted that the OP was necessary. I kept quiet until I was reasonably sure that Bernie was ---again---going to prove too small a person to bow out with some scintilla of grace and decency.

I did not say "many DUers are dishonest"; just the ones who still insist that Bernie has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Democratic nomination.

Finally, regarding your concern that I might have "shit in my own nest", the source of that odor, ma'am, is the "Bros" you are defending.

[centrarchus]

109. Bravo. Thank you Atticus for speaking TRUTH. NT

[Legends303]

126. It's about cult of personality and ego pleasing

With Sander supporters online is why they never support Biden when he wins the nomination.

[MFM008]

129. This was Sanders

Reasoning in 2016.
Its his reasoning now.
It will be his reasoning in 2024.
2028.
2032.
2036...............................👻👻👻👻👻

[Celerity]

144. there is no way Sanders can try again in 2024 (as hopefully Trump is out and Biden or another

Dem is running) as he would be into his early NINETIES at the end of 2 terms. If he waits until 2028 he will be in his nineties for the the majority of his terms. Plus, odds are low he will even be alive. People in their 90's should not be in Congress or the POTUS as a general rule of thumb. Most are not up to the task. The track record is poor at that age. That is not ageist in the slightest to point that out. History more than completely backs me up.

There have only been 4 Senators to serve into their 90's ever (Feinstein will be the 5th if she sees out her term)

Carl Hayden (91 when he left)
Robert Byrd (92) Died in office
Theodore F. Green (93 when he left)
Strom Thurmond (100 when he left) Died around 6 months after he left

Only 1 House member ever in history, Ralph Hall, who retired in 2015 at 91, served into his 90's. He seemed to have his wits still, albeit he was a Rethug for years after he switch parties in 2004.

It is fantasy land that we can have all the ultra aged people running the country. It is a bad, bad trend IMHO. Byrd was damn near incapacitated at the end (he died in office), as was Thurmond. I know little about Hayden or Green's (Green was not healthy when he resigned) mental capacity at the end (Hayden was a wonderful Senator for years though). Feinstein never should have run for reelection, I voted against her (I voted for Kevin de León in both the primary and then the general) in the primary and was very disappointed she won. She outspent him by almost 20 million USD (he raised 1.6m, she raised almost 21.2m) and only won by around 8 points. She is way too much of a proponent of the surveillance state (big pusher for the FISA Act, Patriot Act, etc), just recently (as in 2018 recent) flipped from being pro death penalty, also flipped in 2018 from being a hardcore drug warrior for decades, was a key Dem driver for the Iraq War resolution, is in favour of government censorship of the internet (thank fuck Trump doesn't have that powernow!), and was the head Dem sponsor of the Amendment to make it a crime to desecrate the flag. She also said Trump could be a good president (10 months AFTER he was elected and after he was already tearing shit apart), and was against giving same sex partners (not married) immigration protections from discrimination. She is not my cuppa. Thankfully we have a Dem governor (Newsom) to appoint her replacement, if need be.

[IluvPitties]

137. Well said.

[Tarheel_Dem]

143. K&R

[mikelgb]

149. recommending people support Trump is okay here?

yikes

[Atticus]

150. Are you really that stupid or do you just think everyone else is? nt

[The Magistrate]

151. It Would Be Pleasant, Sir, To Learn Where You Detect That In The O.P.

I have been able to detect it, but perhaps your command of the language is superior to mine.

What is stated is that people who know their actions assist the cheap thug might as well come clean about it, and stop pretending they support progressive and liberal policies and political figures. It seems clear enough, but perhaps you can point out some error in my understanding....






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."