15% of Sanders supporters in ABC/WaPo poll say they will be voting for tRump

[ffr]

Eighty percent of Sanders backers say they’ll vote for Biden against Trump; as noted, 15% say they’d back Trump. (This is familiar: Twenty percent of Sanders supporters said they’d vote for Trump in spring 2016.) - ABC News

To me, that throws up warning flags about who these 15% are. They were always tRump supporters, trying to stop a democratic win. I seriously doubt they would have even voted for Bernie had he won the nomination.

We're going to continue to hear new false allegations being made against Joe Biden and whomever his running mate will be all the way up to the election, then just as in 2016, suddenly never after. Hmmm

Be smart people. Be skeptical of negative news against Biden from "supposed" liberals or progressives or conservative converts.

Lock in your support for Biden and speak out. Let's win this for Biden and restore America.

[Cha]

1. Tragic.. that's what they think of our country and Planet.

Mahalo for this, ffr.

[ffr]

4. It is, Cha. Thank you!

[thesquanderer]

13. At least that many 2008 Hillary primary voters voted for McCain over Obama.

This level of "defection" is not about Sanders.

And remember, Sanders' "brand" is that he'd bring in voters who might not otherwise vote Dem. So in that respect, it really should be *more* --- except that Sanders didn't bring in as many new voters as he'd hoped. Paradoxically, if Sanders' had been more successful as a candidate, that 15% number could well have been even higher!

[Cha]

16. That means Absolutely Nothing At this Point in History with

4 years of trump.

So Please Quit Pushing that.. and you can deny it All you want but I'm DONE here.

[thesquanderer]

22. Okay, then just look at this point in history.

from https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-voters-helped-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

15 percent of Sanders voters said they weren't committed to voting for the Democratic nominee, regardless of who it was, compared to 10 percent of Biden voters who said the same.

The point is, nobody should expect to get 100% of someone else's voters just because they were from the same party's primary or share a common adversary. It doesn't happen. Not in 2008, not today, no matter who the candidate is. Even if it's Biden, who still could lose as much as 10% according to that poll.

But to the extent that we had a lot of open primaries (with no competitive race on the other side) and Sanders has always claimed to be able to persuade many potential Trump voters, it's not surprising that he would yield more defections than Biden would. Though it's not like those numbers are worlds apart. Which again, may indicate that Sanders is not as effective at pulling in potential Trump voters as he'd claimed. Which is what surprised me about your response, considering that what I'm saying may defend Sanders, but is also critical, because those same numbers can support either perspective.

I know, you're done here. But maybe someone else following the conversation will find it interesting.

[mcar]

38. Meaningless

Can we talk about now? With a pandemic, crashing economy and malignant narcissist in the WH?

[thesquanderer]

39. Yes, we can talk about now. In fact, I did...

...in post #22.

[mcar]

40. That's from March 8

A lifetime ago, pandemic-wise.

[jrthin]

14. His campaign has always been more useful to Trump, then 2016,

and now, 2020.

[Cha]

17. ExFreakingZactly.

[Doodley]

2. He is even more useful to Trump than Putin.

[DonaldsRump]

3. This says almost everything about BS

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2020, 06:02 AM - Edit history (2)

The support by Russians, Rus-publicans, and Trump says everything else abour BS.

Bern: your're Bern'ed out. Thanks for all your efforts at singlehandedly stopping the Trump Virus by staying home? A special shout-out for your abysmal Senate voting record!

You, BS Bro, are the real deal!

[Me.]

5. Not Surprised In The Least

I guess the blessing is that aside from not voting for the Dem they have a history of not voting at all. If they did BS might 've had a chance even if he didn't.

[Turin_C3PO]

6. At least it's lower than 2016.

That’s something, I suppose. Anyway, Biden is going to trounce Trump because he will have the Obama coalition coming out for him. We don’t need the losers mentioned in the article.

[MontanaMama]

7. Not surprised.

Spoiler candidate with spoiler followers.

[Hoyt]

8. Well, at least that rate is better than November 2016.

[padfun]

9. A lot of Bernie supporters arent Democrats.

So those votes weren't going to be there in the first place. Plus, many of them don't seem to vote at all.

[George II]

10. Those are the Sanders supporters who openly say that, I'm sure the real number is higher.

[Freethinker65]

11. 10% of Sanders "supporters" would have probably voted for Trump if Sanders had won the nomination

Since no one was opposing Trump, no doubt many Trump supporters decided to meddle in the Democratic Primaries.

[Squinch]

12. I've never heard Sanders tell them not to do such a thing. And I bet I never will.

[Happy Hoosier]

15. Any "Bernie Supporter" who votes for Trump...

Is not someone who supports any kind of progressive agenda. Period.

[treestar]

18. I can believe it

that actual right wingers would pretend to be for Bernie. It helps them divide the Democratic party.

[LiberalFighter]

19. Doubt they were ever supporters of Sanders.

[relayerbob]

20. well, 30% of Dems are for Sanders

That's less than half the voters country, but for this, assume that it's half. That means about 15% of country would vote for Sanders. So 15% of that is about 2.25% of the voters. I rather suspect we will pick up a much larger share of Republicans and independents to make up for this number. As others have said, the ones noted in that poll likely wouldn't have not voted or voted for Trump anyway.

[BidenBacker]

27. Maybe even less than that, bob

Dems only number roughly 33% of the entire electorate, so 1/3 of Bernie's 30% he's averaging in the Dem primaries is only just 10% of all voters. If 15% of that are asshole anarchists that's only a mere 1.5%. Probably even less than that in far less progressive swing states where Bernie may have even less support than 30% of all Dems.

Doubt that is enough to cost Biden a single state Hillary won in 2016. Might conceivably cost us a swing state or two that Joe coulda won but even if they do defect mainstream Dem voters will likely show up in hordes and Indies will most likely swing Biden's way as well.

These most ardent Sanders supporters sure do like to give off the impression that their numbers are far higher than they really are. Squeaky wheels.

[OnDoutside]

28. Exactly. On the other side, there will be a lot more than that of

Moderate Republicans and Independents who will vote for Biden.

[BidenBacker]

31. Precisely, Watson

Which is why if we had followed their advice and gone further left like BS folks said we should in 2020 we Dems likely woulda been doomed.

Here are just a couple examples for states that are in play...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/north-carolina-results?icid=election_usmap

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/florida-results?icid=election_usmap

BS didn't even get 25% in either state for crying out loud. Even just one squeaky wheel outta four is 25%...LOL.

[relayerbob]

30. I agree, that was more or less an upper bound on the number

Won't cost him anything, IMO also. I know lots of GOPpers who are ready top vote against IQ45 also

[helpisontheway]

21. Bitter..Many if them are not democrats anyway. Many are similar to the angry

voters that voted for Trump. Trump’s voters wanted to shake stuff up because they were angry at the establishment. Bernie’s voters want a revolution because they are angry at the establishment. 🙄

[Blasphemer]

23. I believe it. It reflects my experience with a certain subset of BS supporters

I'm not at all concerned about that group. They either would have voted for Trump anyway or would have stayed at home even if Sanders got the nomination. This subset is drawn to the "identity politics" dog whistle and they have no interest in having the electorate universally benefit from Democratic policies (whether center-left or progressive).

[Peacetrain]

24. Yep I believe that..

[TomCADem]

25. What You Lose in Bernie/Trump Supporters, You Gain In Never Trumpers

I know some Bernie supporters have pointed to quotes from folks how said that if Bernie is not the nominee, they would vote for Trump. I disagree with that and even though I think that Bernie has many Trump-like characteristics, and would be ineffective as a President, I think he is better than Trump.

That being said, while there are maybe 15 percent of Bernie supporters who would vote for Trump, there are definitely a lot of folks who would vote for any Democratic nominee, except for Bernie. For example, David Brooks, a never Trumper, had previously said that he would even vote for Warren over Trump. However, when it came to Bernie, he said he would not trade a left wing authoritarian populist over a right wing authoritarian populist.

This is why Biden does better in match-ups with Trump. He gets more cross over voters who might not like either Bernie or Trump.

https://www.registerguard.com/opinion/20200302/david-brooks-no-not-sanders-not-ever

A few months ago, I wrote a column saying I would vote for Elizabeth Warren over Donald Trump. I may not agree with some of her policies, but culture is more important than politics. She does not spread moral rot the way Trump does.

Now I have to decide if I’d support Bernie Sanders over Trump.

We all start from personal experience. I covered the Soviet Union in its final decrepit years. The Soviet and allied regimes had already slaughtered 20 million people through things like mass executions and intentional famines. Those regimes were slave states. They enslaved whole peoples and took away the right to say what they wanted, live where they wanted and harvest the fruits of their labor.

* * *
I’ll cast my lot with democratic liberalism. The system needs reform. But I just can’t pull the lever for either of the two populisms threatening to tear it down.

[UncleNoel]

26. Thanks for the bit of rationality, Cha! I stand by Biden.

Just contributed my little bit again. Do so every couple ofdays.



Joe will beat Trump like a drum!

[beachbumbob]

29. they were never sander's supporters

[lettucebe]

32. They can vote however they want, though this would be rather stupid

[The Magistrate]

33. This, Sir, Is What 'Bernie' Fancies Is His Leverage For Blackmail

There is no question 'Bernie' knowingly presents the threat that a number of his supporters will not vote for anyone but him, and therefore he should be given concession after concession. The problem is that really couldn't bring them along if attempts to buy him off were made. He deliberately tries to inflame supporters to such a heat that if he did try and bring them along with an endorsement of the winner, some would surely just denounce 'Bernie' as a sell-out. He has 'called up that which he cannot put down'.

That said, a number like this is unlikely to hold through to November. Some of this just reflects the heat of battle, and will have cooled considerably by the time the actual choice, Mr. Biden or the cheap thug Trump, is present in the voting booth.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[BlueIdaho]

34. Deeply Disappointing

As is the silence from Bernie.

[MineralMan]

35. I'm sure DU Sanders supporters wouldn't vote for Trump.

They'll tell us so in this thread, soon, no doubt.

[Indykatie]

36. It Also Puts to Lie The Myth That Biden Has To Work Hard to Bring Bernie's Supporters On Board

I have seen polls that suggest up to 25% of Bernie's supporters did not vote for Hillary in 2016. If only 15% say they will not vote for Biden is in a good place.

[mcar]

37. Can a Sanders supporter explain this?

And not in the usual, be nice to us or we won't vote for your person, nonsense.

Why would anyone who calls themself progressive vote for IMPOTUS? Why?

[LVZ]

41. probably a bit higher than 15% - some "Bernie Bro" active trolls stepped up disinformation campaign

[rockfordfile]

42. I don't buy it. I think that poll is full of shit

At some point the "A rated pollster" is not what it's cracked up to be.

[ffr]

43. The numbers seem to align with polled and actual election results

Only in 2016, there were more supposed Sanders supporters who ended up voting for tRump.

[NurseJackie]

44. It's often hard to believe things that go against our belief system.

I think that poll is full of shit

It's often hard to believe things that go against our belief system, or that contradicts things that we are emotionally invested in. Losing is difficult, isn't it? I know the feeling.

[rockfordfile]

45. What?

I think you're reaching way out there. I'm comfortable with what I said.

[qwlauren35]

46. There are no words

for how disgusted I would be in a Bernie supporter who voted for Trump.

Trump is EVERYTHING that Bernie stands against. He's not just bought by the 1%, he is the essence of the 1%. Uncaring, unfeeling, unapologetic about his disdain for the ordinary American citizen.

A Bernie supporter who votes for Trump is a horrible excuse for a human being.