July 28, 2013

+10

There are those that do think we need to curtail our civil rights to be safe.
There are many are right here on DU, that are trying to tell us we need to curtail our civil rights, by trying to convince us that the wholesale hoovering of our electronic communications, is for our own good and the national security is at stake.
No, it ain't. We as a country have been making our own enemies for far too long to buy into that song and dance.

July 28, 2013

I'd say that that depends on what that someone reveled.

Exposing the wholesale spying by our government, the gathering of all the secret electronic communication, of the general public. 'Hoovering' being a very good descriptive adjective of the unconstitutional gathering and storing of the citizens private communications. No one can deny that Edward Snowden didn't expose just that. In any case, he did get it in the public conscience. How can that not be good?

And if Snowden actually had nothing to expose, then why hasn't this died down and gone away yet? Why does what is coming out, just keep getting worse. If he had nothing, this should been yesterdays news already. Even Zimmerman at its height, could not swamp out what Snowden exposed. So yeah, Snowden does have something big.

I do suspect that those that keep buying the government explanations, hook, line and sinker, without question, and regurgitating the talking points, trying to diminish and down play, the full extent of our government's latest over reach, are being something other than truthful and up front, as to what and who they really are. Surely they can't be that slow witted. Not after all this time.
It's OK because it is "legal"? Stop insulting our intelligence.

July 25, 2013

+10

Seeing the support for the 3rd Way, DINO's, DLC and other Republican so-called Lite is counter productive for any politically Center or Left of center people, i.e., actual Democrats.
When you see the excuse that any Democrat is better than a Republican, all that is, is excusing right-wing Democrats for dragging the party ever more to the Right. In the grand scheme of things,the (D) or (R) by the name, should matter less than their policies. Too many people on both sides, don't have the capability of thinking past the letter by the name and so we have the current situation. So we keep supporting and excusing evermore Right-wing Democrats, without holding their "feet to the fire".
Those of us that do and are critical of the current policies, get attacked for not supporting Democrats. Well, maybe these "Democrats" we aren't properly supporting, are supporting too many Right-wing policies.

July 25, 2013

If corporations are persons, then yes, the 4th Amendment applies to them.

You are trying to have it both ways. The government can not just go look at anything they want to. They have to have probable cause. That probable cause is glaringly missing in the data hoovering, warrants or no warrants. That data does belong to he phone company. That information is private information. That information is NOT public information. Also, contained within that meta data hoovered up are the private communications of individuals, i.e., you and me. That electronic data is being collected in real time. What crime are we suspected of to be monitored as we are? So no matter how you slice and dice it, the 4th Amendment is being violated.


The FICA has engaged in huge mission creep since its inception. The rules are not the same as then as now. Also that "because we did it" does not make it any more right or correct or legal, than if "They did it". Wrong is still wrong. Illegal is still illegal. And the Constitution is still being violated.

July 25, 2013

That meta data belongs to the Internet provider/phone company, etc.

Those companies are all corporations. As the Supreme Court has ruled, corporations are persons. That meta data was taken under duress by the government from these persons. So your argument fails because it was the personal property of the legal person/entity our government took it from.

July 23, 2013

The worst gang I worry about are those in Congress with a (R) by their names and their enablers

that have a (D) by theirs.
You know, the 3rd Way, DLC, DINO's and other slightly more honest denizens than the Public Enemy #1, better known as the Republicans.

July 21, 2013

The Left side, what is left of it, is hobbled by the fact that truth, facts and reality matter.

The Right side, not nearly so much. The Right keeps making up their own reality, truth and facts. And their sheeple keep buying it, no matter how outrageous it sounds, or is.

That is what us Left of Center people are having to put up with. And then there are the 3rd Way, DLC, DINO's and other wayward, self-proclaimed Democrats employing the conservative's non-reality to the detriment of us all.

July 18, 2013

Maybe, just maybe, when enough people realize that people in foreign countries are human, just like

ourselves, with the same feelings, same love for their children and family as we, then maybe, just maybe people might refuse to fight and kill in "our leaders" declared and undeclared wars.

July 17, 2013

What I fine amazing on this site, is

how many people support the surveillance state, and blow off and otherwise excuse the parts of the Constitution the data gathering runs afoul of.

July 12, 2013

You seem to be the expert on ignoring.

You are people, are you not? Or just a person? Many of your long winded posts would do a Right-wing BLOG justice.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023231312
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023217632
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023203719
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023191175
And so on.

The problem is not Edward Snowden, but what our government is doing to us and the world. No matter how you twist, distort and throw tires on the fire, for your smoke screen, all Snowden is doing is exposing political wrong doing by our government. That is why he, Snowden, is a political refugee seeking political asylum. By no stretch of the imagination is it legal to hoover up all of our electronic commutations into huge data bases, for later searching. No matter how much you distort reality to try to make it as somehow legal, because a "warrant" was used. And a rubber stamped one at that.

A reading of the 4th Amendment by most anyone with a 5th grade education or above, would question the legality of what our government is doing in our name to "protect us" by hoovering up our digital communications.
Protect who? Most certainly not us, but themselves. That is obvious, yet you defend their action as somehow right and moral, because you think it is legal? Legal, yet in obvious violation of the Constitution, because a Right-leaning court ruled it is legal, in spite of the wording of that Constitution?